Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only in Comcast HSI

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:08:14 EDT

slickro : I don't think they did either, I think the supervisor fed that to them. I just read the Service agreement, I found this on page 19.

"Facilities Allocation. Comcast reserves the right to determine, in its discretion, and on
an ongoing basis, the nature and extent of its facilities allocated to support HSI, including,
but not limited to, the amount of bandwidth to be utilized and delivered in conjunction with
HSI."

Here's the url:
»www.comcast.com/MediaLibrary/1/1···tcom.pdf

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:47:29 EDT

deblin : That looks like a load of crap, honestly. 750KB? That's nothing. I don't think that tech knows what the heck they are talking about.
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:40:43 EDT

slickro : I ran across this thread today while searching for the source of a common problem we all seem to have. While trying to upload a large file to a FTP server my upload rate appears to get throttled back. It'll start at about 100kps or so and even go up to around190kps, but after a few minutes it always plateaus at 40 to 44 kps.

So I call comcast internet support.

After a conversation about resetting my modem I assure the tech it is not a hardware problem. My HTTP web traffic is not affected in any way and regular download speeds are also fine.
It is only occurs when I am uploading using FTP protocol. I ask the following questions:

"Can you tell me why my data upload only is affected while uploading to an FTP server? If my service plan should give me upload rates of up to 350 kps why does it stay around 44kps. Even if everyone in the neighborhood are all uploading I should still see medium upload speed of around 100 to 200 kps right?"

I am put on hold for a few minutes and the tech comes back with this explanation. I'll sum it up. The tech tells me that any traffic other than HTTP traffic is limited to roughly 750 KB in a 24 hour period at the full upload speed.
After the limit is reached upload speeds are throttled back.
I asked if that was in the TOS and the Tech said they had not read them, telling me someone else gave the tech the explanation. I was then instructed to go to Comcast.com and read them for myself - which I will.

My big question is if I upgrade to a business account, will my limit double to 1500KB in a 24 hour period. I hope this sheds some light on the problem in this thread.

I do not know what the TOS are for business accounts, but the consumer plan I have seems a little misleading.

I'll be looking for a proxy solution shortly.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:17:05 EDT

EG : :o

Clever indeed !! ;) :D

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:30:15 EDT

funchords : Agreed -- not Sandvine like ...

Yesterday
We made friendships here and far away,
Greed and power brought our judgment day,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

Suddenly,
There weren't half the sites there used to be,
Deep Inspection hanging over me.
Oh, yesterday came suddenly!

Why'd they cut my flow?
Now it's slow. But they just say,
"You'll do something wrong!"
How I long for yesterday!

Yesterday,
We built networks for both work and play!
Then the bullies took it all away.
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

When they dimmed the dawn,
Progress gone! So now they say,
"Tune in, See what's on!"
How I long for yesterday!

Yesterday
Iron walls could not keep friends away,
World-wide networks gave each man a say,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

by Robb Topolski, a cyber-hippie.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:11:56 EDT

EG :

said by funchords :

Yeah, but Sandvine is not the only tool in the box.

I suspect that you may be correct....

I am merely questioning that poster's correlation.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:49:05 EDT

funchords : Yeah, but Sandvine is not the only tool in the box.

I feel like I've experienced this as well, but I have not put any cycles into testing it.

Mudtoe: Within an SSH tunnel, they can only know that you are sending data at a much higher rate then you are receiving data. They don't know whether or not you are uploading via http, ftp, mftp, tftp, etc. They also don't know whether it's audio, video, or text. --HTH
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:41:43 EDT

EG :

said by Bakla :

Use bit/Utorrent for awhile and shut it down and do FTP uploads,u will notice the throttling...it wont come off for awhile from the torrent usage aftermat hence affecting your FTP uploads.

to all the people who thinks COMCAST doesnt throttle are those people who never use torrent.

The method that Sandvine uses to throttle P2P would not cause this effect on FTP.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:25:17 EDT

mudtoe :

said by kelso :

Here is a dump of the header exchange using sftp. You will see that there is no encryption during the initial header exchanges. From then on it's not ascii.

So it is possible for an external observer to easily "know" that you are doing a file transfer. I'll have to run that same test on an implicit FTP session to see what shows. My understanding is that an implicit SSL encrypted FTP session is completely encrypted, but perhaps not. I'm not sure off the top of my head what the difference between explicit SSL FTP and implicit SSL FTP, versus SFTP.

mudtoe

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:46:29 EDT

kelso :

said by mudtoe :

Another though regarding the FTP throttling. I saw the comment about SFTP and I wasn't sure which kind of secure FTP it was, implicit or explicit. With implicit secure FTP and a non-standard port number for a passive connection, I doubt that Comcast could even figure out that an FTP file transfer was in progress.
---snip---
However, I suppose it might be remotely possible to deduce it's FTP if there is some sort of pattern to the initial exchange of data (e.g. size of messages, sequence of requests and responses, etc.) between client and server that Sandvine (Comcast's BW mgt software?) could identify as being indicative of FTP, even without being able to read the data itself or by using the connection port number as a flag.

Here is a dump of the header exchange using sftp. You will see that there is no encryption during the initial header exchanges. From then on it's not ascii.

Recv
# SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.6|

Xmit
# SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.6|

Xmit
# |||||||*||~|||z_o)|}|||||~diffie
# -hellman-group-exchange-sha256,d
# iffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha
# 1,diffie-hellman-group14-sha1,di
# ffie-hellman-group1-sha1||||ssh-
# rsa,ssh-dss||||aes128-cbc,3des-c
# bc,blowfish-cbc,cast128-cbc,arcf
# our128,arcfour256,arcfour,aes192
# -cbc,aes256-cbc,rijndael-cbc@lys
# ator.liu.se,aes128-ctr,aes192-ct
# r,aes256-ctr||||aes128-cbc,3des-
# cbc,blowfish-cbc,cast128-cbc,arc
# four128,arcfour256,arcfour,aes19
# 2-cbc,aes256-cbc,rijndael-cbc@ly
# sator.liu.se,aes128-ctr,aes192-c
# tr,aes256-ctr|||Uhmac-md5,hmac-s
# ha1,hmac-ripemd160,hmac-ripemd16
# 0@openssh.com,hmac-sha1-96,hmac-
# md5-96|||Uhmac-md5,hmac-sha1,hma
# c-ripemd160,hmac-ripemd160@opens
# sh.com,hmac-sha1-96,hmac-md5-96|
# |||none,zlib@openssh.com,zlib|||
# |none,zlib@openssh.com,zlib|||||
# ||||||||||||||||

Recv
# |||||||||`||||||U|n||||||~diffie
# -hellman-group-exchange-sha256,d
# iffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha
# 1,diffie-hellman-group14-sha1,di
# ffie-hellman-group1-sha1||||ssh-
# rsa,ssh-dss||||aes128-cbc,3des-c
# bc,blowfish-cbc,cast128-cbc,arcf
# our128,arcfour256,arcfour,aes192
# -cbc,aes256-cbc,rijndael-cbc@lys
# ator.liu.se,aes128-ctr,aes192-ct
# r,aes256-ctr||||aes128-cbc,3des-
# cbc,blowfish-cbc,cast128-cbc,arc
# four128,arcfour256,arcfour,aes19
# 2-cbc,aes256-cbc,rijndael-cbc@ly
# sator.liu.se,aes128-ctr,aes192-c
# tr,aes256-ctr|||Uhmac-md5,hmac-s
# ha1,hmac-ripemd160,hmac-ripemd16
# 0@openssh.com,hmac-sha1-96,hmac-
# md5-96|||Uhmac-md5,hmac-sha1,hma
# c-ripemd160,hmac-ripemd160@opens
# sh.com,hmac-sha1-96,hmac-md5-96|
# |||none,zlib@openssh.com||||none
# ,zlib@openssh.com|||||||||||||||
# ||||||||

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:12:37 EDT

Sterling : Gesh a classic "when animals attack" moment!
»www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/···20080320

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:53:22 EDT

mudtoe : Another though regarding the FTP throttling. I saw the comment about SFTP and I wasn't sure which kind of secure FTP it was, implicit or explicit. With implicit secure FTP and a non-standard port number for a passive connection, I doubt that Comcast could even figure out that an FTP file transfer was in progress. The difference between explicit and implicit SSL ftp is that with explicit the encryption doesn't start until the client sends a command on the control channel to start encryption, which means that an observer would know from data prior to encryption being started that this is an FTP control session. With implicit encryption the control channel and data channel are encrypted from the start (i.e. it's implicitly assumed that if you connect to the ftp server on this specific port that encryption is required from the start).

If you used implicit encryption with a non-standard port number all Comcast could know for sure is the number of bytes per unit time going across the connection, nothing else. However, I suppose it might be remotely possible to deduce it's FTP if there is some sort of pattern to the initial exchange of data (e.g. size of messages, sequence of requests and responses, etc.) between client and server that Sandvine (Comcast's BW mgt software?) could identify as being indicative of FTP, even without being able to read the data itself or by using the connection port number as a flag.

mudtoe

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:26:03 EDT

anon : Use bit/Utorrent for awhile and shut it down and do FTP uploads,u will notice the throttling...it wont come off for awhile from the torrent usage aftermat hence affecting your FTP uploads.

to all the people who thinks COMCAST doesnt throttle are those people who never use torrent.

it's simple.

u use Torrent u get throttled
u dont use it...u dont.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:52:46 EDT

deblin :

said by Cabal :

No problems outside Boston on 8/768 plan. 200 MB file upload:

275 KB/s during Powerboost
90-95 KB/s after Powerboost

My friend in Oregon had no problem pulling 700KB/s from me and pushing at 120KB/s on his plan. I had him test so I could add to this thread. Seems it's not a system-wide thing, though I doubt they are purposely throttling FTP anyway.
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:42:53 EDT

anon : My brother's Comcast upload got throttled in the last few months also. We exchange family pictures to each other using FTP. I used to see my brother's Comcast connection upload at near 1mb/sec. It now often uploads at 5kb to 15kb/sec. We can use other protocols to exchange pictures at the full 1mb/sec, its just FTP that is throttled.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:33:10 EDT

jester121 :

said by lperdue :

Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

No, they aren't. Check your terms of service -- Comcast doesn't guarantee access to every nook and cranny on the internet at 6.0M/384K (or whatever speed you have).

If you're convinced they monitor threads and changed your settings once you were on to them, how did they know which account is yours? I bet they had to turn off all their throttling in Sonoma, CA, just in case. You're a hero! :uhh:

In other news: Comcast isn't liable for your alleged lost revenue unless it's in your contract (it isn't), any more than the electic company or any other service provider.

Oh, and good luck with small claims court. Step number one for a company being sued is to remove the case to district court -- get your lawyers fired up and ready to bill hours!

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:37:50 EDT

ccoggle : So I came to the forum to find out about FTP throttling and found this thread...but my problems are actually with downloading...

I live in SLC and use Comcast at home. I have a box at a business connected via Fiber (Utopia). In the past I never had a problem transferring at outrageous speeds between the box. Lately, via FTP - each thread is getting throttled down to 100-150K. I can run multiple threads and get a full 800kish but - its annoying.

Transfers via HTTP yield full speed + powerboost. At first I thought it was something wrong with IIS - restarted it. Then I downloaded and installed a different FTP server - same problem.

So....I tried using VPN to connect to the machine, then transferred the data over VPN...bam...1500K+ speeds again.

So....any suggestions...or is it just being throttled?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:07:51 EDT

Cabal : No problems outside Boston on 8/768 plan. 200 MB file upload:

275 KB/s during Powerboost
90-95 KB/s after Powerboost
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:59:09 EDT

anon : Sorry, I should have mentioned, but I have the Performance Plus plan, which I believe is 768kbps upload? Which seems right, since for a long time I was getting a consistent 90KB/s. The powerburst also goes to around 190KB/s which is close to the 16mbps offered.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 06:26:16 EDT

espaeth : 45KB/sec = 360kbps (8 bits per byte)

For those with standard 6/384 service that's about where things should land after your powerboost duration is up.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 04:20:59 EDT

anon : I just want to add my name to the list of people that have noticed throttling over FTP. All uploads start around 120KB/s and then slowly taper off after around 10MB to around 45KB/s for the remainder. I don't use P2P, I know it's not a limitation on the server I'm sending to, and this isn't a fairly new problem. It started around the same time the bittorrent throttling reports came out as far as I can remember. At least there's workarounds for that...

I'm using FlashFXP by the way, if that matters.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:50:52 EDT

anon : I just ftp uploaded a 4.7 GB dvd at 310KB (~2.8mbit) per second, on my comcast home connection. no throttling in sight at any stage.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:58:49 EDT

kelso :

said by valis :

When I upload work files via ftp, I will get my rated outbound speeds (up to ~120Kb/s) for the first 10-16Mb, at which point I will see the connection speed drop to between ~40-50Kb/s for the duration of the transfer. If there is latency or routing issues at the start limiting my initial speed to say 75Kb/s, then by the time the throttling kicks in I will be down to 30-35Kb/s max. This holds whether I use direct ftp or a vpn connection btw.

After reading your post, I thought maybe I didn't try a large enough file.

I tried and had no problems with a big file... (both machines are suse linux).

I used SFTP on port 443 from the office to my home Comcast machine and did a get (transferring a file up to the office).
The file was 162 Meg and transferred at almost my full upload (2M) speed.

Here are the results at various points...
1% 2464KB 242.2KB/s 11:15 ETA
3% 6624KB 282.8KB/s 09:23 ETA
8% 13MB 273.8KB/s 09:16 ETA
10% 17MB 287.0KB/s 08:38 ETA
15% 25MB 284.8KB/s 08:12 ETA
20% 33MB 271.8KB/s 08:05 ETA
25% 41MB 219.5KB/s 09:23 ETA
39% 63MB 190.1KB/s 08:51 ETA
44% 72MB 231.6KB/s 06:40 ETA
50% 81MB 272.6KB/s 05:04 ETA
60% 98MB 212.5KB/s 05:10 ETA
70% 114MB 134.0KB/s 06:11 ETA
79% 128MB 238.6KB/s 02:25 ETA
85% 139MB 261.5KB/s 01:32 ETA
91% 149MB 225.7KB/s 01:01 ETA
100% 162MB 232.2KB/s 11:55

Edit: I wonder if there is a difference if the TCP session is established from inside or outside the Comcast network.
Ie. Connect in and pull (as I did) or connect out and push (as you did).

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:30:29 EDT

mardyron :

quote:
These are hosted servers, with no throttling, giant bandwidth and I'm paying for massive gigabytes of throughputs.

Sorry I didn't read all the replies to confirm if this was covered. But I do have a ?, Did you verify that the hoster doesn't cap upload to the ftp? Many hosting companies cap the upload. You may want to confirm this before going any further, As this is why I canged from several different hosting companies.

Also, what software are you using to upload? Have you gotten faster thru another ftp site @ anytime? Some of the lite software dont really use the broadband speeds.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:32:04 EDT

anon : I can confirm I see the same behaviour, I just assumed it was another side effect of them using powerboost! to oversell their lines.

When I upload work files via ftp, I will get my rated outbound speeds (up to ~120Kb/s) for the first 10-16Mb, at which point I will see the connection speed drop to between ~40-50Kb/s for the duration of the transfer. If there is latency or routing issues at the start limiting my initial speed to say 75Kb/s, then by the time the throttling kicks in I will be down to 30-35Kb/s max. This holds whether I use direct ftp or a vpn connection btw.

I don't think this is in relation to p2p software either, though there's defiantely an effect there as well. I recently used uTorrent to grab a newer copy of 'supergrubdisk' and watched my WAN connection consistantly go stale across the board (ftp/http as well as the torrent connections). Closing utorrent solved the problem within seconds, but I needed supergrub (and gparted after that) to help troubleshoot some issues with one of my local boxes.

Incidentally I pay for the upgraded linespeeds and while my 'boosted' speeds are higher I still see the same throttling that I had before. I would switch but the only other option is Qwest, and I already bailed on them due to similar issues (and lower speeds/higher cost).

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:08:38 EDT

deblin : Ah yeah, I noticed there were more than 2 data plots on it, so that makes sense. I looked at cacti a while back, but decided to learn RRDtool instead.

So you can just tell cacti to use some different parameters for the graphing? Is the syntax a little more intuitive than the RPN and CDEF stuff for rrdtool?

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. :)
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:56:46 EDT

espaeth : Cacti is just a front-end for RRDtool (the graph I posted is a RRD graph) -- if I ~~were less lazy~~ had more free time I could get the same output by setting up the appropriate graph template to feed the right parameters to RRDTool.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:52:49 EDT

deblin : Totally OT here, but you should check out rrdtool :)
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:21:47 EDT

espaeth : As another data point, I'm not seeing any kind of FTP throttling here in MN.

Traffic source: Brooklyn Park, MN Comcast 8/768 residential service
Traffic destination: Coloquest / Gigenet in Chicago. Server port speed 100mbps.
Protocol used: FTP

Traceroute to colo facility:

Client side logs:

Server side logs:

Cacti graph of Comcast connection (1 minute polling)

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:54:23 EDT

deblin : Hmm, interesting. I wonder if others are noticing similar results. That seems to imply the sandvine/P2P usage is related. Though resetting the modem doesn't jive with that. Perhaps rebooting the modem has allowed it to sync with better results.

If you just upload a large file without any P2P activity prior, does it still get throttled?
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:46:08 EDT

anon : Noticed some COMCAST throttling today also....i downloaded a couple of movies via torrent and after download i upload the files to my WEB server via FTP and WOW i noticed decrease in upload speed.

im on a Comcast performance plan 8mb/768

my steady upload speed is used to be 90KBs after powerboost dies out and all. this is tested all the time on the same server, fastest server i could find the rest is just slow. today is diffrent after using utorrent for awhile. i tried to upload to my server via FTP.

AND WOW

MY UPLOAD SPEED DROPS DOWN TO 55-60KB/s. this happens alot of time now and im getting pissed by this throttling.i usually just do a MODEM power cycle before everytime this happens then my speed goes back to optimum speed...but now it happening again and i cant take this anymore.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:36:06 EDT

lperdue : Thanks drmorley ... it always helps to know I'm not alone!

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:13:24 EDT

drmorley : FWIW, I saw the same thing with my Comcast 8/768 connection. I own a few servers in a colo facility and uploads to those servers were being throttled to about 47KB/s after transferring more than 5MB.

My servers are connected to a 100MB connection in an Equinix datacenter about 12 miles from my home so the hold up wasn't on the receiving end.

I just figured Comcast was up to something, but rather than fight it I just canceled my service.

Good luck and keep us posted.
--
»mediafly.com/Welcome.aspx

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:07:41 EDT

lperdue : Thanks funchords ... yes, I've got the papers in the class action, Hart v Comcast - others can find it here:

»regmedia.co.uk/2007/11/15/hartvcomcast.pdf

I actually have a broader set of allowable complaints since my case does not involve file-sharing or outright blocking. It is actually of much broader relevance to more Comcast customers.

I have several options, NONE of which involve me having to pay an attorney. Can't say more for now, but will keep this board informed when I can.

Oh, and in a regulatory sense, board members might be interested in this complaint filed with the FCC:

»www.freepress.net/docs/fp_pk_com···aint.pdf

(previously posted in forum Comcast HSI topic/post »ACTION: FCC Pressed to Stop Comcast's Internet Blocking)

Mod Edit: Live link is here ---> »ACTION: FCC Pressed to Stop Comcast's Internet Blocking

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:46:02 EDT

funchords : I just caught up on this thread. I'm glad to see progress being made. Thanks, Deblin (once AGAIN) for your help. You're a great asset to this community.

lperdue,

Be sure to read through (or have your lawyers read through) the California class-action suit v Comcast related to the P2P interference which I think covered hidden caps, overselling, and delivering less than contracted. I know that the suit covers several issues, but I don't know if it overlaps your issue at all. I also don't know the case status or schedule.

Robb
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:01:21 EDT

hobgoblin : Yeah its serious stuff to throttle one server and not others. I wonder why they picked on that specific one. If it was happening network wide of course this thread would be full of the me too posts. Its not so I suspect there is a very logical reason behind your nightly peak time slowdowns.

and by the way..I doubt someone from Comcast discovered this thread and then immediatly removed a throttle! Things dont work like that!

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:56:10 EDT

lperdue : They seem to be folks with regulatory experience. We'll see what happens!

I spent half a decade working on Capitol Hill for U.S. Senator and two Congressman, so I have an idea where this could lead.

Still, I'm happy I'm not paying their hourly rates.

I'll probably go ahead with my little Small Claims Court action to make up for the billable time Comcast has cost me.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:41:41 EDT

hobgoblin : "My data's now in the hands of the attorneys for my hosting service who have asked me not to say any more for now. They've got a much more highly technical expert whose done further work."

Interesting.....I hope they have deep pockets!

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:37:37 EDT

lperdue : Possibly, but the data from the other end indicates another issue connected with Comcast..

My data's now in the hands of the attorneys for my hosting service who have asked me not to say any more for now. They've got a much more highly technical expert whose done further work.

I must respect their request not to say more.

I am also grateful for the assistance, advice and ideas that you and other great people on this forum have offered me.

I promise to post more as soon as I can.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:28:27 EDT

hobgoblin :

said by lperdue :

Now, here I am back at the office.

Throttling back in control.

Upload to my server started at nearly 250KBps and dropped to 94.89 at the end.

But the same file to deblin's server screamed up at 303KBps and to my local server at almost 360KBps.

Note that the upload to my server and deblin's were essentially the same just an hour or so ago.

Hmmmmm

Wouldn't that then discount throttling and point to some sort of issue between you and the server?

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:37:26 EDT

lperdue : Now, here I am back at the office.

Throttling back in control.

Upload to my server started at nearly 250KBps and dropped to 94.89 at the end.

But the same file to deblin's server screamed up at 303KBps and to my local server at almost 360KBps.

Note that the upload to my server and deblin's were essentially the same just an hour or so ago.

Hmmmmm

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:18:16 EDT

lperdue : I drove home to test bandwidth with deblin's server.

From home, the throttling behavior was severe: on deblin's server, the upload started at over 120 KBps and steadily decreased to 64.61 KBps at the end.

Upload to my server started over 120KBps asnd ended at 64.8 KBps

The final speed amounts to about .5 Mbps which is not bad for the home connection and FAR BETTER than I have seen since Comcast started the throttling.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:18:09 EDT

deblin : From my logs, it looks like you were getting about 160-180 KB/s for the first 30-35 seconds or so. It then leveled off at about 40-45 KB/s. That about what you were seeing? Seems normal to me. Maybe they fixed your problem?
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:18:06 EDT

lperdue : Thanks for that.

I had the connection to your server clocked at 330Kbps -- about 2.64 Mbps ... I uploaded the same file to my own server, just afterwards at 360KBps ... 2.88 Mbps ...

Both were, obviously, excellent. I'd be a happy camper if this were to continue. But until today, everything was consistently throttled.

And now, only now, am I getting the bandwidth I've paid for. At least here at my office.

We'll see what happens.

Stay tuned.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:02:08 EDT

deblin : You were hitting 3Mbit/s (or close to it) the whole time for that file. Maybe try a larger file?
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:57:56 EDT

deblin : No worries. I sent you the hostname via IM (I setup anonymous login temporarily for you). If you need me to send the hostname via email instead, let me know.
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:57:03 EDT

lperdue : Thanks, Deblin.

Sorry to feel the need to ask, but Comcast has proved itself sneaky, slippery etc.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:52:44 EDT

deblin :

said by lperdue :

And, sorry to be cautious, but I need to ask if you have any connection with Comcast other than being a customer.

No, not an employee or affiliated in any way. I am a former comcast customer, but no longer. I used to have their business 6.0/768 business connection in California before I moved to the east coast.
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:50:39 EDT

lperdue : deblin: that would be interesting. you can send log-on to my email:

lperdue

AT

ideaworx

.com

And, sorry to be cautious, but I need to ask if you have any connection with Comcast other than being a customer.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:47:45 EDT

lperdue : schja01: 50KB/sec = 400 Kbps, so you SHOULD be delighted. I'd be thrilled!

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:59:30 EDT

deblin : If you want to test to another server, I will IM you information for uploading to my server with a temporary login. I'm on 15Mbit FiOS, so the only limitation should be your comcast upstream. Let me know if you want to try that.
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:47:23 EDT

schja01 : I upload 50MB on a daily basis to several FTP sites. I see an initial high speed burst and then within 30 seconds it settles in at about 50KB/sec. Seeing my plan is the 6Mb/384Kb I am delighted with the throughput. I use WSFtpPro as my FTP client and use it's statistics to monitor throughput.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:42:08 EDT

lperdue : After raising hell on this DSLReports forum yesterday, a near-miracle happened sometime while I was sleeping.

This morning, I'm getting uploads at about 300 Kbps (.3 Mbps) at both home and office. FTP and SSH are the same.

The bandwidth is also no longer showing the gradual throttling back of the bandwidth shown in the video.

While this upload speed is less than half the bandwidth I'm paying for at home and 1/5 of what I'm supposed to get at the office, it is a surprising improvement.

I must assume that someone from Comcast monitors this.

Yes, I do understand that Comcast hides behind a speed limit technicality that amounts to "up to what we tout so loudly in our advertising."

However, "up to" should not mean, "never will get there."

Approaching the touted bandwidth does not mean _never_ getting past 20 to 50% of what the customer has been led to expect and what the customer is paying for.

That, folks, is false and deceptive advertising.

So, as of this morning, I _still_ have a crappy connection. But,nevertheless, it's better than the sluggish, near-dial-up speeds that crippled me for the past weeks.

It still fails to deliver anything close to promised and that's a contractual violation.

Stay tuned.

I'm still headed for court so a judge can decide what "up to" reasonably means in a court of law.

Re: Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:04:10 EDT

kelso :

said by lperdue :

I upload the reports to one of my web servers via FTP or SSH depending upon the file, the server and the confidentiality required.
--clip--
With my FTP client, I can see the upload begin where it should: at 1 to 1.3Mbps ... a few seconds, it will gradually begin to drop ... to 800K, then 500K and after 30 seconds to a minute, it will stabilize somewhere between 150K and 300K.

From reading your first post, it appears that you can upload your files using SFTP (SSH file transfer).

Does both the SFTP and FTP get throttled or only FTP ?

SSH or SFTP is known as the poor man's VPN. Comcast will not know what you are doing with the SSH connection.
You could, for example, try downloading a file before uploading using the same session and see if that makes a difference with the throttling.

edit: Security statement: I would use SFTP over FTP when given a choice because your account login information (and password) is sent in the clear when using FTP. Not so with SFTP.
edit2: As a point of reference, I went to a local Panera (free WiFi) and used SFTP (on port 443) to transfer a large file to my laptop from my home Comcast machine. It uploaded the file at a fairly constant 175k Byte/second (I have blast 16/2 service. The port 443 is how I have my home sshd daemon set up. So, client sftp is "sftp -o port=443 name@xx.xx.xx.xx".

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:35:11 EDT

funchords :

said by lperdue :

Yeah, which means I need a connection other than comcast.

If you or anyone else has a suggestion on how I might get that, then I am all ears.

There are several companies that sell VPN services. Most are marketed to travelers who frequently use hotspots in public places. One is called www.hotspotvpn.com -- which I only mention because it comes up first in Google when I search on those two terms. You might also search the terms anonymous VPN -- since Comcast et. al. has declared war on some of its users, such services have become popular.

If Comcast is having undue influence on FTP uploads, a VPN will keep them from being able to detect the protocol you are using.

I would also like to suggest that you hit the "hey mods" button and perhaps get this Topic broken out for some additional opinions. I looked at your recording and I can't explain what I'm seeing. It's not PowerBoost (that would stay high for a while, then drop abruptly -- your speed slows very gradually by comparison. It isn't related to abuse/limits/caps. By sticking it in here, I'm afraid that you're limiting its exposure and people who could help are not seeing it.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:25:06 EDT

lperdue : I'm offline for tonight. My day begins at 4:30 am.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:24:08 EDT

lperdue : Yeah, which means I need a connection other than comcast.

If you or anyone else has a suggestion on how I might get that, then I am all ears.

I don't need an upload at my paid-for server speed. I just need something better than 17 Kbps from Comcast.

The .avi clearly shows the throttling, the higher speed connection and the down grading over time.

The hosting service will be providing the affidavit regarding the bandwidth for the law suit.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:18:26 EDT

hobgoblin : So for proof....

We need to see something uploading at that speed.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:01:51 EDT

lperdue : both ways. and that's bare minimum. That's to and from my server.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:57:37 EDT

hobgoblin : "Note that the minimum is 5 Mbps ... I pay for more than the minimum."

I am assuming that is download.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:27:18 EDT

lperdue : The following will answer questions about the company that hosts my main web servers:

»www.completeweb.net/article.php?9.0

»www.completeweb.net/article.php?8.0

Note that the minimum is 5 Mbps ... I pay for more than the minimum.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:15:50 EDT

lperdue : Sorry to be gone so long ... had to make dinner ... Fettucini with linguica, sun dried tomatoes and a lot of garlic..

Anyway, while I was cooking, I uploaded the following which shows the raw video of the throttling process:

»ideaworx.com/home-comcast-030508···pets.avi

It needs editing (as I said previously) and has about a dozen sessions. The first is like 3 minutes ... the rest are closer to 30 sec.

What they show (look in the lower, right hand corner under "speed") is the transfer starting at the higher speed and then dropping shortly afterwards.

I have another .avi on my office computer that shows the same pattern.

I've had Comcast to both locations three times. The last time I called they said they would charge me $19.95 to have someone come out.

I have performed the tweaks test. I'm good on that.

Both my hosting services are pissed and will give me an affidavit on the minimum 12 Mbits/sec I can have if I can get that connection.

I do not have a way to test on a non-comcast connection. Wish I did.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:25:19 EDT

funchords : Okay - I looked at the JPG. Let's see if we can strengthen it. This won't get you to "proof," but it does make for better evidence.

1. Can you demonstrate that the destination server can accept uploads at that speed?

2. You said before that you have both home and business accounts. Which account involves this JPG -- more importantly, what are its purchased speeds? Does it include PowerBoost uploads? (note. If it does include Powerboost uploads, this would explain why the speed falls off from the starting higher speed. Now the concern becomes why are both speeds so low?)

3. On that computer, have you performed the "tweaks" test here at DSLReports with a clean result?

4. Is it possible to take the same computer, files, etc.. to a non-Comcast connection and repeat the test in order to compare the results?

5. Have you exhausted the Tech Support resource such that they're sure there isn't a technical problem?
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:56:04 EDT

hobgoblin : So what actual PROOF do you have?

Hob

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:41:54 EDT

lperdue : Hobgoblin: I'll be posting the video of a dozen sessions showing the throttling in action. Just got to find time to edit down for YouTube length.

And "Up to" legally must approximate the touted speeds, otherwise it becomes false and deceptive advertising.

15 or 2OK is a loooooong way from 150K.

And I've never even seen CLOSE to the "up to" except for the first few seconds of a transfer before the throttling chokes it back by 90%

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:36:22 EDT

lperdue : Here's a little screen capture (78K) that shows the upload thruput from a session about an hour ago:

»www.ideaworx.com/comcast-benchma···1108.jpg

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:27:01 EDT

lperdue : I'm sorry. I made a decimal error.

Upload speeds are settling out between 15 and 30Kbps.

I'd be happy to share the logs and video of this.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:09:06 EDT

funchords : lperdue,

On the Comcast Business 8Mbps/1Mbps plan, your subscribed upload speeds should result in throughput of about 125 KB/s (minus some protocol overhead). Please remember that 125 KB/s = 1 Mbps. Having been with Comcast for a long time, I know that they do overprovision their modems, so I'm not surprised that you settle out at over 150 KB/s.

The reason that you get a boost up to 1 MB/s upload (8 Mbps upload) for a while is a feature called PowerBoost.

HTH
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:06:04 EDT

hobgoblin : I think your wrong. I believe their TOS say "Up To" ands make all sorts of disclaimers.
and you have offered no proof of anything actually.

But good luck anyway
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:51:18 EDT

lperdue : well, it's a contractual sort of thing. They promise one thing and they deliver another. The data is very clear that the bandwidth is there and they're throttling it ... They've also made representations that prompted me to rely on those representations ... to the detriment of my business.

Those both fall into tort category which does offer me grounds.

I will probably bring this in Small Claims court which evens the playing field. Sure it limits me to $7,500 PER INFRACTION but that's better than allowing them to escape entirely.

Plus there are class action lawsuits already filed.

And I don't think they -- or the FCC and the FTC -- will be happy with the suit or the YouTube video.

Re: Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:35:34 EDT

hobgoblin : The CMTS is the first hop. In almost all cases it does not respond to a ping.

I dont believe you have any grounds for a lawsuit, but good luck.

Comcast is throttling FTP uploads

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:00:49 EDT

lperdue : Split from this topic --> »Comcast Bandwidth Abuse/Limits - Discuss here only
~sorto'

I have no Torrent clients or other file-sharing software.

I do have a consulting business that require me to create reports that are often very large (15 to 40 MB) .PDFs.

Because the size is too large for email attachments, I upload the reports to one of my web servers via FTP or SSH depending upon the file, the server and the confidentiality required.

Both with my Business Comcast account and my home account, I have seen Comcast throttle uploads (and sometimes downloads).

With my FTP client, I can see the upload begin where it should: at 1 to 1.3Mbps ... a few seconds, it will gradually begin to drop ... to 800K, then 500K and after 30 seconds to a minute, it will stabilize somewhere between 150K and 300K.

A few minutes ago, it took me 25 minutes to upload a 23MB file ... Hmmm, 1Mbits/MINUTE!

So, they're actually giving me 1/60 of the bandwidth that they are charging me for. I smell lawsuit.

In general, the larger the file, the slower the upload. Files less than 10MB tend to have less throttling, and those below 5MB usually have none.

The throttling does not seem to discriminate among different file types. (.exe, .avi, .jpg, .pdf etc)

Traceroutes to my servers (one hosted less than 5 miles away and other in Ohio) show the first hop beyond the router is asterisked out and times out. I assume the throttling begins at that node.

These are hosted servers, with no throttling, giant bandwidth and I'm paying for massive gigabytes of throughputs.

I've prepared a video of the throttling using Camtasia and will be producing a YouTube video of the sordid mess.