Re: The new TOS in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20149725 en Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:48:37 EDT Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:48:37 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149746 SanJoseNerd :
said by EPS See Profile :

2. Specific Examples of AUP Violations. The following are examples of conduct which may lead to termination of your Service. Without limiting the general policy in Section 1, it is a violation of the Agreement and this AUP to: ... (e) post off-topic information on message boards, chat rooms or social networking sites;...
I love the flowers that bloom in spring. My neighborhood has many fruit trees -- apple, plum, peach -- that make really spectacular flowers.

Wait. The light on my DSL router is blinking! I think my service is being termi-------- :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149746 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:33:43 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149725 EPS : Hm, that is a good point- I have been involved with the operation of message boards, and it isn't uncommon to report the worst offenders to the ISP (if we can figure out who it is based on IP address, which we usually can for broadband ISPs), I suppose this is just one of those clauses that the ISP can use to justify sanctioning these people.

Though it still sounds silly at first glance.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149725 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:30:45 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148825 funchords :
said by lvlorpheus See Profile :

My question is if they do not enforce this part of the TOS, does it make that part of the TOS weightless?
Enforcement can simply mean investigating a complaint and ruling it unfounded. You (the customer) may never find out about it. If the ISP acts, it may be a mere warning which would become confidential to all except the ISP and that customer. So just because you don't hear a lot about enforcement, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

With that in mind, yes. Selectively enforcing certain provisions and not others can weaken the ISP's hand. Doing so set customers' expectations as to what the future will hold. Similarly, consistently enforcing provisions in the same manner likewise sets a pattern. Patterns of the past are predictors of the future. As it is not a criminal case, a judge or arbitrator will weigh the culmination of all the facts. In the end, the case should end with the judges determination of what probably happened versus how these policies would be interpreted by a reasonable person -- all things considered.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148825 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:08:43 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148300 RadioDoc : That's been a part of ISP TOSs since before broadband and the WWW. They used to refer to mailing lists, bulletin boards and Usenet. They've just freshened it up a bit.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148300 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:48:41 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148546 TKJunkMail :
said by lvlorpheus See Profile :

My question is if they do not enforce this part of the TOS, does it make that part of the TOS weightless? And if that is the case does it not make the whole TOS weightless, or can they just write up as many pages as they want and then just pick and choose whats real and whats not. Would it not be a lot easier to have a TOS that says "We reserve the right to do what ever we want." Or can we expect to hear about half to three quarters of Verizons customers receiving warnings regarding off topic violations.
I think they put everything they can think of in there so that they can drop anyone they want and then withstand a lawsuit over it.

An example. Say they have a customer that goes to msg board after msg board spamming something they sell over the internet. Complaints start rolling in to Verizon about that person. Now they can just dump them and say they posted "off topic". Hey it was in their TOS, so sue them and they win.

Of course, they could use some generic "we can dump anyone we want" line. But that would be harder to defend in court.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148546 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:26:17 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148515 funchords :
said by EPS See Profile :

...it is a violation of the Agreement and this AUP to: ... (e) post off-topic information on message boards, chat rooms or social networking sites;...
It is traditional that the "upstream" from an end-point is asked to enforce repeated and disruptive violations of netiquette.

This has been in AUPs for more than 10-15 years. It has its birth in usenet spam and disruptive behavior. It has nothing to do with someone posting "oh by the way, Happy Birthday" in a forum about photography.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148515 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:22:26 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148500 lvlorpheus : My question is if they do not enforce this part of the TOS, does it make that part of the TOS weightless? And if that is the case does it not make the whole TOS weightless, or can they just write up as many pages as they want and then just pick and choose whats real and whats not. Would it not be a lot easier to have a TOS that says "We reserve the right to do what ever we want." Or can we expect to hear about half to three quarters of Verizons customers receiving warnings regarding off topic violations. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148500 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:20:27 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148463 TKJunkMail :
said by EPS See Profile :

My favorite clause has to be this one:
2. Specific Examples of AUP Violations. The following are examples of conduct which may lead to termination of your Service. Without limiting the general policy in Section 1, it is a violation of the Agreement and this AUP to: ... (e) post off-topic information on message boards, chat rooms or social networking sites;...

Since when is it the ISP's responsibility to make sure you stay on topic online?
I agree that that TOS entry is ridiculous. Who determines what is "off topic" ? And why would they even want to take action on off topic posts anyway?
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148463 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:14:26 EDT Re: The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148306 Smith6612 : Don't ask me, but I run my own forum and I go off topic all the time, and not only that, several forums I go to I go off topic a lot as well and the admins don't care either, so that's a very obserd clause to have in a TOS :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148306 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:44:58 EDT The new TOS http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148244 EPS : My favorite clause has to be this one:
2. Specific Examples of AUP Violations. The following are examples of conduct which may lead to termination of your Service. Without limiting the general policy in Section 1, it is a violation of the Agreement and this AUP to: ... (e) post off-topic information on message boards, chat rooms or social networking sites;...

Since when is it the ISP's responsibility to make sure you stay on topic online? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20148244 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:33:51 EDT