  gvillefl
@bellsouth.net
| [Xtreme] AUP changed to allow running servers?
It seems to me the Acceptable Use Policy no longer prohibits running servers on residential accounts. In fact I got a mailing from ATT that suggested Xtreme 6.0 was good for running home servers. Is everybody going to start running their own web servers now? |
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  graysonf Premium,MVM join:1999-07-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL
1 edit | I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but the policy prohibiting servers is still in place per this, which hasn't changed in years except for re-branding it from Bellsouth to ATT (Unauthorized uses - non-payment):
»my.att.net/csbellsouth/s/editori···thorized
And it wouldn't be the first time ATT/Bellsouth has made a statement to a customer via mail or advertising that was untrue. They did the same thing when they first offered static IPs. They said it would be good for offering web pages, which of course requires running a web server. When we pointed out to them that the AUP had to change to agree with the advertising, they changed the advertising to no longer mention offering web pages.
I for one would like to see the restriction go away, but until the AUP is actually changed, it's just not the case no matter what anyone up there says. |
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  ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs:
·VOIPo
| So are you accessing that AUP directly because you have it bookmarked or are you going through your account access to see it?
I ask because if I go into my account after logging in, click on the FastAccess link on my account that describes my 6.0 service then weed my way through the various provied links to the AUP, there is nothing that talks of the restrictions.
I would love to see them gone too, but how are we supposed to know just what AUP we are under when we see those posted by you but when I click through all the links after I login, I get a different set?
Not trying to flame or anything, just trying to understand. |
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  graysonf Premium,MVM join:1999-07-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL | Post the link you are using. |
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  gvillefl
@bellsouth.net
| reply to gvillefl I wonder just how many "Acceptable Use Policies" they have. This one doesn't say anything about running servers. How much due diligence do I have to exercise to find them all, read them all and "average" what they all say?
»my.att.net/csbellsouth/s/s.dll?s···&leg=aup |
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  ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs:
·VOIPo
1 edit | reply to graysonf said by graysonf :Post the link you are using. I was going to but they are all referenced via java script. But here are the steps:
1.) Login into your acount 2.) On the MyAccount Page under MyServices click on your internet Plan 3.) When the pop-up is loaded, click on "Click here for current terms and conditions." 4.) From there, in the first paragraph, click on "read the Service Agreement". This takes you to the "High Speed Internet and Dial Terms of Service". 5.) Scroll down to Section 14 and click on the www.att.net/legal/AUP link.
That is the AUP that I see and I cannot find anything referencing the use of servers. If you do see it, please let me know. I could very easily missed it.
EDIT: The one just posted by gvillefl is exactly the one I get when following the steps above. |
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  wayjac Premium,MVM join:2001-12-22 Indy
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to gvillefl Here's a thread link discussing this subject: »Even IF I knew how to set one up... (home server)
The last post in that thread is well said:
said by logic1977 :If you want to run a server then go ahead. If your server gets so compromised that it comes to the attention of ATT network management personnel, expect a quick shut down of your line. -- God bless our troops |
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  ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs:
·VOIPo
1 edit | said by wayjac :Here's a thread link discussing this subject: » Even IF I knew how to set one up... (home server)The last post in that thread is well said: said by logic1977 :If you want to run a server then go ahead. If your server gets so compromised that it comes to the attention of ATT network management personnel, expect a quick shut down of your line. I agree completely. However, if the restrictions have been dropped because we are under the ATT AUP now, then ports should be opened for our IP's upon request, which they still will not do. |
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  graysonf Premium,MVM join:1999-07-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL
| reply to gvillefl There's even the corporate AUP, so that's 3 of them so far, but I haven't compared them all. I just read the stuff that tells me I can't do this.
I guess if you really want to do this then contact ATT with links to every AUP you can find. Tell them that there are inconsistencies and that you want the more restrictive URL taken down along with an assurance, in writing, that your service will not be terminated for operating a server. And you need to be aware that historically, the AUP people are not reachable by customers, and even the sales and tech people can't get to them. But those AUP people don't seem to have any problem getting a hold of customers that are violating the policies.
Good luck getting port 25 working the way you need it to run a mail server. Very difficult for me to imagine that this will ever happen on residential service when they can sell you biz service for a lot more money. |
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  wayjac Premium,MVM join:2001-12-22 Indy | reply to ropeguru What ports are blocked by bellsouth? -- God bless our troops |
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  ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs: | Port 25 definitely... |
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  wayjac Premium,MVM join:2001-12-22 Indy | For the sbc regions port 25 and a few other ports are blocked.
For the port 25 block there is this: Here's what to do if port 25 is blocked for you -- God bless our troops |
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  NetFixer Freedom is NOT Free Premium join:2004-06-24 Murfreesboro, TN
·Vonage
·AT&T Southeast
·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to graysonf The AUP to which you point also says this:
Unless otherwise specified in the BellSouth Internet Service subscriber's pricing plan agreement... The service agreement that I received via email when I signed up for my service says this:
Dear BellSouth Internet Service Member: This message is automatically sent to all new customers. All BellSouth Internet Service subscribers must agree to the terms of the BellSouth Internet Service Agreement. You may view the Service Agreement anytime by clicking the "Service Agreement" link located at the bottom of the start page (www.home.bellsouth.net). As a convenience to you, a copy of the Service Agreement is also provided below... The document links at the bottom of that link make no mention of prohibiting a server. Neither does the document referenced by this quote found in the official AUP link that I was directed to use:
Revisions to the AUPAT&T reserves the right to modify its Acceptable Use Policy at any time, and effective when posted to AT&T's web site ( » www.corp.att.com/aup ). Notice of any change to this AUP may also be provided to a Customer via electronic mail, if Customer subscribes to AT&T's automated notification system regarding any AUP changes. In summary, while there are indeed provisions in the TOS/AUP agreement that govern my DSL account designed to protect both the service itself and other users, the act of simply operating a web server is not currently (nor was it when I signed up for the service) on that official list of prohibited activities. While the outdated document to which you link does contain such language, the official published documents that govern my DSL account usage do not contain the server prohibitions.
I think I can safely say that your link is outdated because a search for that link in the source code for the »my.att.net page does not find your link.

-- We can never have enough of nature. We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander. Test your firewall. |
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  graysonf Premium,MVM join:1999-07-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL
| Good luck.
ATT wouldn't have taken the time to change every occurrence of Bellsouth to ATT if the page wasn't meant to be current at the time they made the changes - post merger Bellsouth/ATT.
This isn't the first time this has come up, and it won't be the last time either.
If you are so adamant about it, then by all means just go ahead and do whatever you want. And while you are at it, see what you can do about getting port 25 fixed - after all there is no point in blocking/filtering it the way they do since they now allow residential servers to be run. Unless you can actually get this accomplished, then I would say that there is still a disconnect between what is actually allowed and what is perceived to be allowed.
Maybe someone else will call them up and demand business class service at the residential class price, since there is no difference between the two AUP-wise. |
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 chong67
join:2001-11-18 Jonesboro, GA | reply to gvillefl For Incoming Port that is block, use Port Redirection. Bellsouth let other people earn the money!
For outgoing port, use Smart Server. Use Bellsouth mail server. More work for Bellsouth server!
It didnt solve the spam mail. |
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  NetFixer Freedom is NOT Free Premium join:2004-06-24 Murfreesboro, TN
·Vonage
·AT&T Southeast
·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
1 edit | reply to graysonf said by graysonf :ATT wouldn't have taken the time to change every occurrence of Bellsouth to ATT if the page wasn't meant to be current at the time they made the changes - post merger Bellsouth/ATT. Ever hear of a global search/replace function in a text editor? The use of shared style sheets also automates global web page content changes. It is not necessary to individually edit each page of a company's web site(s) to maintain a family look or even to update imbedded links.
said by graysonf :If you are so adamant about it, then by all means just go ahead and do whatever you want. And while you are at it, see what you can do about getting port 25 fixed - after all there is no point in blocking/filtering it the way they do since they now allow residential servers to be run. Unless you can actually get this accomplished, then I would say that there is still a disconnect between what is actually allowed and what is perceived to be allowed. I personally have no need to do this since my email server runs on a commercial account, and the port 25 prohibition is a valid network security decision for residential accounts with which I have no disagreement.
The point of my prior post was to explain that the link you posted is outdated and no longer in effect (the fact that there is no active link to your posted document from the »my.att.net page and that the " Back to the previous page" link near the bottom of your posted link goes nowhere are both clues to this). The official up to date on-line documents that actually govern current AT&T SE DSL accounts make no mention of web server prohibition (the OP for this thread made no mention of operating a public email server on a residential account). -- We can never have enough of nature. We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander. Test your firewall. |
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  graysonf Premium,MVM join:1999-07-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL
| said by NetFixer :The point of my prior post was to explain that the link you posted is outdated and no longer in effect (the fact that there is no active link to your posted document from the » my.att.net page and that the " Back to the previous page" link near the bottom of your posted link goes nowhere are both clues to this). The official up to date on-line documents that actually govern current AT&T SE DSL accounts make no mention of web server prohibition (the OP for this thread made no mention of operating a public email server). Fine. Then do us all a favor here. Our Forum FAQ still answers the question about running servers on residential accounts as being prohibited and refers to the supposedly "outdated" link. Accordingly, this needs to be fixed:
Our FAQ needs to be changed, and someone from here will want to coordinate this with ATT or run the risk of disseminating incorrect information that could lead to account suspensions. And as a matter of accuracy, the "outdated" page will have to be taken down.
Now all we need is someone to make this happen. Any volunteers? |
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  NetFixer Freedom is NOT Free Premium join:2004-06-24 Murfreesboro, TN
·Vonage
·AT&T Southeast
·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
| said by graysonf :Fine. Then do us all a favor here. Our Forum FAQ still answers the question about running servers on residential accounts as being prohibited and refers to the supposedly "outdated" link. Accordingly, this needs to be fixed: Our FAQ needs to be changed, and someone from here will want to coordinate this with ATT or run the risk of disseminating incorrect information that could lead to account suspensions. And as a matter of accuracy, the "outdated" page will have to be taken down. Now all we need is someone to make this happen. Any volunteers? It never occurred to me to look at the unofficial DSLR published links, since AT&T/BellSouth provided me with the official links to use. Since you are the one who discovered the disparity, perhaps you should be the someone to make it happen.  -- We can never have enough of nature. We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander. Test your firewall. |
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  graysonf Premium,MVM join:1999-07-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL
| I'm not the one who has been asking this question or has the need to run servers on residential accounts.
I will say, however, that all past efforts by anyone here who has ever tried to get servers on residential accounts officially permitted have failed. And this is going on 9 years.
One guy did claim to get this done via an in writing modification to the Terms of Service document, but he refused to post a scan of it for all to see. To which the reply was, of course, bullshi.. |
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  NetFixer Freedom is NOT Free Premium join:2004-06-24 Murfreesboro, TN
·Vonage
·AT&T Southeast
·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
1 edit | All you (or anyone) needs to do is to click on the official AUP link: »my.att.net/csbellsouth/s/s.dll?s···&leg=aup at the bottom of the »my.att.net page to see that while there is not an explicit permission to operate a web server, there is also not an explicit prohibition against operating a web server. Clicking on the official Revisions to the AUP link: »www.corp.att.com/aup/ produces the same result.
The only server prohibitions listed are:
with respect to dial-up accounts, using any software or device designed to defeat system time-out limits or to allow your account to stay logged on while you are not actively using the AT&T IP Service(s) or using your account for the purpose of operating a server of any type; and this:
Customer Responsibilities
Customers remain solely and fully responsible for their Content.
Customers are responsible for maintaining the basic security of their systems, including implementation of necessary patches and operating systems updates, to prevent use by others in a manner that violates this AUP. Examples of failure to provide basic security include but are not limited to improperly securing a mail server so that it may be used by others to distribute Spam and improperly securing an FTP server so that it may be used by others to illegally distribute copyrighted material. Customers are responsible for taking corrective actions on vulnerable or exploited systems to prevent abuse. While there is also no explicit prohibition on running an email server on a residential account, that is indirectly covered by several generic network management and security provisions. If AT&T/BellSouth truly wanted to inhibit and effectively prohibit web servers, a simple inbound port 80 block would/could be easily implemented. If they received a complaint that a residential user (or for that matter a commercial user) were operating a phishing or other illicit/illegal web site, that site would/could easily be taken down under the network security and illegal activity sections of the official TOS/AUP documents without any need for a general prohibition on running a web server. -- We can never have enough of nature. We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander. Test your firewall. |
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