amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to jjeffeory
Re: Ham's arent complaining ?
said by jjeffeory  :HAM radio is ... very useful in the event of a major catastrophic emergency... It's all relative. Hobbyists sacrifice the quality of their frequencies in the name of personal enjoyment and expanding their participants. A good example is eliminating morse code. 10 years ago the argument for retaining it is exactly the same argument used today against BPL. It was the only thing that could reliably communicate in an emergency (when your microphone is damaged, etc.). It communicates in a smaller band with less power. Etc., etc. And, without it, the riff-raff would get licenses and the hobby hands would sound like CB.
But, it went by the wayside. Now you have people using more power than is required to communicate. Just talking over others. Etc.
Which bands does BPL affect? HF only? It sounds like it because people say the problem with BPL is propagation. But, I'm not sure.
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | BPL affect more than just HAM radio. It affects frequencies up to 80Mhz.
Please do some more research before you spout off what you clearly know nothing about. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :BPL affect more than just HAM radio. It affects frequencies up to 80Mhz. Ok, but what I was getting at is: why can't higher frequencies be used for the stated "emergency services" which hobby frequencies are supposed to be protected for?
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :BPL affect more than just HAM radio. It affects frequencies up to 80Mhz. Ok, but what I was getting at is: why can't higher frequencies be used for the stated "emergency services" which hobby frequencies are supposed to be protected for? Mark Do you even know what occupies the HF spectrum? It runs the gamut from commercial operators all the way to the military. Try telling the military they have to move. Add to that, we as taxpayers have to pay higher taxes for all government and military users to swap out all their radios with new ones. That won't be cheap.
And don't think you can confine BPL just to the HAM radio sections because it is not enough space.
Try again. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :Do you even know what occupies the HF spectrum? One question at a time please. That's not what I asked. Why can't higher frequencies be used for the emergency services which we're told is the benefit of hobby radio?
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :Do you even know what occupies the HF spectrum? One question at a time please. That's not what I asked. Why can't higher frequencies be used for the emergency services which we're told is the benefit of hobby radio? Mark That question directly relates to your question. Moving everyone up will cost billions. It is not just amateur radio that would need to move.
As the frequency goes up, the distance goes down. Long range communications are possible in HF and not so much in VHF or higher. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy : As the frequency goes up, the distance goes down. Long range communications are possible in HF and not so much in VHF or higher. Relays and nets? It's all relative, right?
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy : As the frequency goes up, the distance goes down. Long range communications are possible in HF and not so much in VHF or higher. Relays and nets? It's all relative, right? Mark Nope, it is not. Again, you know nothing of what you are talking about. A relay is only as good as the furthest distance it can reach. As it stands now, HF is the ONLY set of frequencies that can cover this country. Not 50Mhz nor anything higher in the amateur spectrum. VHF is line of sight which becomes extremely difficult in mountainous regions. You do realize we have mountains in this country right? |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :VHF is line of sight which becomes extremely difficult in mountainous regions. That's why there could be a mixture of VHF hobbyists and satellite services.
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :VHF is line of sight which becomes extremely difficult in mountainous regions. That's why there could be a mixture of VHF hobbyists and satellite services. Mark A mobile unit cannot communicate with a satellite easily. HF can be made mobile very easily.
Plus, anytime you start mixing frequencies and modes, you lose reliability of communication and it becomes a bad game of "telephone."
Until you do a bit more research, you won't understand how radio communications work. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :A mobile unit cannot communicate with a satellite easily. As I said, I never had a problem with my Iridium phone.
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :A mobile unit cannot communicate with a satellite easily. As I said, I never had a problem with my Iridium phone. Mark But you fail to realize the extended costs. The service costs monthly even if it is not used. Currently, the military does not pay for spectrum and neither does public service. Again, how much more in taxes are you willing to spend for this conversion?
Now, you also forget the millions needed to put up even more satellites for all these new phones that have to go out to everyone. Who is going to maintain them? NASA? Even more millions in repairs if they need to fix them. XM Radio paid $15 million for their sats and 2 have failed. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :Again, how much more in taxes are you willing to spend for this conversion? Again, not more than the price of an M16.
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :Again, how much more in taxes are you willing to spend for this conversion? Again, not more than the price of an M16. Mark And again, it costs much more than that.
Until you are willing to open up that pocketbook of yours, this change will not happen and it won't be cheap. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :And again, it costs much more than that. And again, you have no idea of the comparative costs. I think what's being established is that you're so biased by your hobby that you're unable to see the validity of *any* reasonable compromise.
Remember, the number of purchased Iridium phones would be much less than the number of M16s. It's not like they'd be issued to every soldier. And, they wouldn't require the special security oversight inherent with weapons (and the public safety issues which arise due to their theft).
I could insult you by saying "try again" or "you need to study more before...". But, I feel no need to since I'm mot a partisan.
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :And again, it costs much more than that. And again, you have no idea of the comparative costs. I think what's being established is that you're so biased by your hobby that you're unable to see the validity of *any* reasonable compromise. Remember, the number of purchased Iridium phones would be much less than the number of M16s. It's not like they'd be issued to every soldier. And, they wouldn't require the special security oversight inherent with weapons (and the public safety issues which arise due to their theft). I could insult you by saying "try again" or "you need to study more before...". But, I feel no need to since I'm mot a partisan. Mark You are partisan. You can't see past your point of view.
And again, you still have no clue how communications work.
Here is a simple thing for you to consider. Why do public service people use radios instead of cell phones? When you can answer that question, you will understand why sat phones are a very bad idea.
As for security issues with dolling out weapons, you would know that all communication equipment goes through similar security measures especially since most have cryptographic additions that are more HIGHLY controlled than any personal weapons.
Keep trying. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :As for security issues with dolling out weapons, you would know that all communication equipment goes through similar security measures especially since most have cryptographic additions that are more HIGHLY controlled than any personal weapons. Aren't you comparing apples to oranges? Why would satellite phones for use during rare emergencies require encrypted communications? They would only be used to augment hobbiests' VHF nets (which aren't encrypted).
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :As for security issues with dolling out weapons, you would know that all communication equipment goes through similar security measures especially since most have cryptographic additions that are more HIGHLY controlled than any personal weapons. Aren't you comparing apples to oranges? Why would satellite phones for use during rare emergencies require encrypted communications? They would only be used to augment hobbiests' VHF nets (which aren't encrypted). Mark Military communications are 90% encrypted. They even use a separate frequency for their air traffic control and use the civilian frequencies only when they are in civil airspace. Almost every single radio they have in their inventory has to have encryption capabilities. That's how they work.
Now answer the question I posted earlier.
"Why do public service people use radios instead of cell phones?" |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| said by moonpuppy :Military communications are 90% encrypted. Non sequitur. We're talking about augmenting the 30 hobbyists who participated after the Washington floods if they are unable to form nets with 2 meter and 70 cm. Remember? It's not for any other use.
Mark |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by amigo_boy :said by moonpuppy :Military communications are 90% encrypted. Non sequitur. We're talking about augmenting the 30 hobbyists who participated after the Washington floods if they are unable to form nets with 2 meter and 70 cm. Remember? It's not for any other use. Mark Wrong, the military has specs that need to be met for equipment to be considered. Encryption is one of them. You brought up why not let the military take charge. Well, they need communications that can be encrypted.
And keep ducking the question I asked. Here it is again.
"Why do public service people use radios instead of cell phones?" Here is a clue: cell phones are cheaper per unit but they still use radio...why? |
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