 Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:6 | reply to Daniel
Re: Security and Obscurity: Changing Daemon Ports I am not an advocate of stealth unless you can stealth every port and become totally invisible on the net..none of this "I am just not home today stuff" but rather the house is not even there. No footprint.
BTW tanks go on the attack..they are not defensive weapons but rather an offensive.
A fighter is only stealth because of it's footprint and SURFACES. And because the frequency and detection capability of your enemies radar is such they appear invisible.
It worked 10 years ago..does not work today..in fact we are even past ECCM. the new EW tactics would astound you. 
You do not have to hit a fighter or bomber "hard enough with anything" just give them something to fly into.
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 BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:2
 ·Frontier Communi..
1 edit | said by Name Game:... A fighter is only stealth because of it's footprint and SURFACES. And because the frequency and detection capability of your enemies radar is such they appear invisible. ... Unless, of course, your enemy is using a sophisticated passive bistatic radar system, in which case your effective radar/electromagnetic 'shadow' is enough to buy you the farm... regardless of your radar "invisibility".
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If God wanted us to work with electrons, He'd make them big enough to see... |
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Name GamePremium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
kudos:6
1 edit | Yes indeed
22
SSH
Stealth There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address! |
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 DanielPremium,MVM
join:2000-06-26
San Francisco, CA
2 edits | reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:A fighter is only stealth because of it's footprint and SURFACES. And because the frequency and detection capability of your enemies radar is such they appear invisible. It worked 10 years ago..does not work today. Sure, not a single F-117 has been shot down in combat, but that's probably just luck, right? Probably didn't have anything to do with the fact that they weren't detected by normal means, right?
Your ignorance spans many disciplines, sir, and at this point I'm the stupid one for even debating with you. It's becoming a lot like a non-disabled person competing in the special olympics. Please don't show up in my threads and troll anymore. It's become very clear at this point that you're not here to contribute. Every time you show up you redirect the conversation in a negative way. Please stop.
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dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge |
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 CabalPremium
join:2007-01-21
Austin, TX
 ·Suddenlink
4 edits | said by Daniel:said by Name Game:A fighter is only stealth because of it's footprint and SURFACES. And because the frequency and detection capability of your enemies radar is such they appear invisible. It worked 10 years ago..does not work today. Sure, not a single F-117 has been shot down in combat, but that's probably just luck, right? Probably didn't have anything to do with the fact that they weren't detected by normal means, right? Your ignorance spans many disciplines, sir, and at this point I'm the stupid one for even debating with you. It's becoming a lot like a non-disabled person competing in the special olympics. Please don't show up in my threads and troll anymore. It's become very clear at this point that you're not here to contribute. Every time you show up you redirect the conversation in a negative way. Please stop. Perhaps you should stick with the topic, rather than faulty analogies and personal attacks.
said by Daniel:We have a massive, evil attack taking place on port 22. So we sidestep and move to port 34,291. The "threat" to our daemon is now SIGNIFICANTLY reduced since we can clearly document that very few attackers are hitting people on port 39,291. By doing so, you have in no way made your hypothetically-vulnerable service any more secure. It is still vulnerable, and it can be exploited. That is what makes it insecure, not how many people might (or might not) stumble upon it on a given port. Running on borrowed time isn't security, and it saddens me that someone who clearly isn't stupid can trick themselves into believe it is. Avoiding automated attacks for known vulnerabilities through obscurity is neither clever, nor a form of security.
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DanielPremium,MVM
join:2000-06-26
San Francisco, CA
1 edit | Cabal, answer me this: what are the real world threats to a fully-patched, public SSH daemon? Zero-day attacks, right? Well what if I were to tell you that when zero-day attacks are launched they are launched, in the VAST majority of cases, against the default SSH port and not against non-standard ports?
This isn't a theoretical discussion here. It's about lowering the risk from REAL attacks. Real attacks take place on the real Internet, and people coding these attacks have to choose what port to attack. They don't usually attack multiple ports; they usually attack one -- the default one.
So explain to me why NOT HAVING A DAEMON THERE, during a zero-day attack, doesn't increase your chances of surviving that attack?
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DanielPremium,MVM
join:2000-06-26
San Francisco, CA | reply to Cabal
said by Cabal:By doing so, you have in no way made your hypothetically-vulnerable service any more secure. It is still vulnerable, and it can be exploited. So can a vulnerable server that's not facing the Internet. Does it have the same risk level as one that does face the Internet? No, of course not. You're completely ignoring exposure as a factor of risk.
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 CudniLa Merma - VigiladoPremium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
kudos:13 | reply to Daniel
said by Daniel:Sure, not a single F-117 has been shot down in combat, but that's probably just luck, right? What about the one shot down over former Yugoslavia in 1999?
Cudni
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