nokiasac
@telus.net
| reply to sppena
Re: Teksavvy's throttling now? Just a vent, nothing is needed.
said by sppena  :clearly nokiasac does not realize the scope of of this issue. How about I put this in another perspective so you can understand the gravity of the situation. Would you buy a fuel efficient car if that is only Caped to go to 30km/h?
Would you buy a water bottle that is Caped to fill only half a bottle?
Would you pay for post-secondary education at full price but Caped that you only receive a C+ on every course?hopyfully now u understand a bit of the situation, if not then its time for you to grow up and face the real world. Angelo_ posted "my mental health will suffer as i am disabled and this give sme great stress is another fact. Bell has lied ot me cheated me , tried to double bill me continously, has threatened me with legal action fo rusing a completely legal application ( utorrent ) of which at time of said threat i was LOL getting a set of freeware ebooks. all video/audio taped. now imagine that half a TSI's users are the abused of bell, perhaps we should all pitch in 1$ and that 21000 would definately get a lawyer ( most would want mere 5 grand to start ) seriously my rights have been violated and i am hurt." I was not saying this throttling situation does not sucks. What I was commenting on was the fact the guy is getting so worked up its effecting his life.
If you want my opinion it is this.
Bell should be approaching this differently. If they have a problem with network capacity they should enforce caps while trying to improve network. I really think some of you have no idea but every major utility is designed and sized based on demand. It based on economics... it always boils down to the almighty $$
Hydro - You may have a 200 amp electrical service panel in your house. Ya you have 200 amps available to you but the "normal" consumer will only use 20% on average. 8 houses may be fed of a transformer that rated to provide 50kw. 50kw == 208amps. If hydro had to size transformers to make sure everyone could draw 200amps power would cost more because the infrastructure will cost more.
Water - During the stanley cup playoffs in Vancouver during commercial breaks the water pressure for the city dropped dramatically , to the point where higher elevation had no real supply.
Telephone - Others have mentioned before but I think there may only be enough trunks for maybe 10% of subscribers and if everyone picked up their phones many would not get dialtone at all.
Internet - If everyone in Canada started decided to get on the internet and max out their connection what kind of speeds do you think we would get.
I'm not saying what they are doing is right and yes TSI is paying for loop but maybe they should be paying per byte instead.
Since many of you think of internet just as essential as any major utility , like hydro etc, maybe we all should be paying for what we use on the internet just like we do for hydro and water, pay per meg or gig. Bell and TSI are in this to make money. That is the bottom line.
Anyways I would like to also add I think this whole business of the CRTC making telcos provide open access to their networks at cost + 15% to wholesalers destructive to innovation. The big picture in the end will be the telcos will not be concerned in investing in future technologies that will have a huge initial capital investment because the wholesalers will come in and use it at a fraction of the cost. GPON is the perfect example of this. Do you really think BELL and TELUS will pump hundreds of millions into fiber only to have them not be able to see a return on the investment due to wholesalers undercutting them.
Perhaps utilities should all still be in the public hands so they are the ones that profit from their success not the shareholders.
/rant |
|
new story
@videotron.ca
| reply to Bee Beep
New Michael Geist story at:
»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2787/125/
"For months, I've been asked repeatedly why net neutrality has not taken off as a Canadian political and regulatory issue. While there has been some press coverage, several high-profile incidents, and a few instances of political or regulatory discussion (including the recent House of Commons Committee report on the CBC), the issue has not generated as much attention in Canada as it has in the United States. I believe this week will ultimately be seen as the moment that changed. " |
|
cdnbikerdude
@teksavvy.com
| reply to Bee Beep
I'm very unhappy with this Bell situation right now. I have been with Teksavvy for about 6 months and everything was working fantastic until last night. I hope Teksavvy can work to resolve the issue at hand and come up with a solution that continues to make them the best ISP in Canada. |
|
Nokiasac
@telus.net
| reply to Bee Beep
said by sppena :clearly nokiasac does not realize the scope of of this issue. How about I put this in another perspective so you can understand the gravity of the situation. Would you buy a fuel efficient car if that is only Caped to go to 30km/h?
Would you buy a water bottle that is Caped to fill only half a bottle?
Would you pay for post-secondary education at full price but Caped that you only receive a C+ on every course?hopyfully now u understand a bit of the situation, if not then its time for you to grow up and face the real world. Angelo_ posted "my mental health will suffer as i am disabled and this give sme great stress is another fact. Bell has lied ot me cheated me , tried to double bill me continously, has threatened me with legal action fo rusing a completely legal application ( utorrent ) of which at time of said threat i was LOL getting a set of freeware ebooks. all video/audio taped. now imagine that half a TSI's users are the abused of bell, perhaps we should all pitch in 1$ and that 21000 would definately get a lawyer ( most would want mere 5 grand to start ) seriously my rights have been violated and i am hurt." I was not saying this throttling situation does not sucks. What I was commenting on was the fact the guy is getting so worked up its effecting his life.
If you want my opinion it is this.
Bell should be approaching this differently. If they have a problem with network capacity they should enforce caps while trying to improve network. I really think some of you have no idea but every major utility is designed and sized based on demand. It based on economics... it always boils down to the almighty $$. One of the possible bottle necks lies at the feed to the DSLAM. Large CO are not bad but the smaller remotes may be fed with something like an OC12 or smaller with maybe 500+ ports. do the math and thats roughly 1.2meg available per person not including overhead. The whole network though is not designed for the current demand of users. Telcos are slow to catch up.
Hydro - You may have a 200 amp electrical service panel in your house. Ya you have 200 amps available to you but the "normal" consumer will only use 20% on average. 8 houses may be fed of a transformer that rated to provide 50kw. 50kw == 208amps. If hydro had to size transformers to make sure everyone could draw 200amps power would cost more because the infrastructure will cost more.
Water - During the stanley cup playoffs in Vancouver during commercial breaks the water pressure for the city dropped dramatically , to the point where higher elevation had no real supply.
Telephone - Others have mentioned before but I think there may only be enough trunks for maybe 10% of subscribers and if everyone picked up their phones many would not get dialtone at all.
Internet - If everyone in Canada started decided to get on the internet and max out their connection what kind of speeds do you think we would get.
I'm not saying what they are doing is right and yes TSI is paying for loop but maybe they should be paying per byte instead.
Since many of you think of internet just as essential as any major utility , like hydro etc, maybe we all should be paying for what we use on the internet just like we do for hydro and water, pay per meg or gig. Bell and TSI are in this to make money. That is the bottom line.
Perhaps utilities should all still be in the public hands so they are the ones that profit from their success not the shareholders.
/rant |
|
UT_CK
Premium
join:2008-01-28
1 edit | Double post error ... Removed
Respectfully,
CK |
|
DSL_Ricer
Premium
join:2007-07-22
| reply to Nokiasac
said by Nokiasac :
One of the possible bottle necks lies at the feed to the DSLAM. Large CO are not bad but the smaller remotes may be fed with something like an OC12 or smaller with maybe 500+ ports. do the math and thats roughly 1.2meg available per person not including overhead.
Unlimited users, at this point, use on average less than 0.5 Mbit/s
said by Nokiasac :
Hydro - You may have a 200 amp electrical service panel in your house. Ya you have 200 amps available to you but the "normal" consumer will only use 20% on average. 8 houses may be fed of a transformer that rated to provide 50kw. 50kw == 208amps. If hydro had to size transformers to make sure everyone could draw 200amps power would cost more because the infrastructure will cost more.
However, if you did try to use 200 amps you could. If you and your neighbours tried, yes, it wouldn't work, however if they gradually increased their usage over several month, I'm pretty sure hydro would provision for this increased usage. P2P isn't new. In fact, it's a shrinking portion of internet bandwidth.
said by Nokiasac :
Water - During the stanley cup playoffs in Vancouver during commercial breaks the water pressure for the city dropped dramatically , to the point where higher elevation had no real supply.
Yes, and the same thing does happen on the internet; but 95% of the time, if they turned on their tapes they had pressure. 4pm to 2am represents 42% of the time.
said by Nokiasac :
Telephone - Others have mentioned before but I think there may only be enough trunks for maybe 10% of subscribers and if everyone picked up their phones many would not get dialtone at all.
Other people have mentioned that when people started using dialup ISPs, Bell had a similar problem. Did bell say, no dialup ISPs from 4pm to 2am? No. They added more capacity. I'd expect all other phone companies had the same problem and none of them did that.
said by Nokiasac :
Since many of you think of internet just as essential as any major utility , like hydro etc, maybe we all should be paying for what we use on the internet just like we do for hydro and water, pay per meg or gig. Bell and TSI are in this to make money. That is the bottom line.
Sure. except think of this: if teksavvy bought 200GB, and then proceeded to use it only from 4 to 5 pm, that would require incredible amount of actual capacity comparatively to being spread over a whole day. Bandwidth isn't created, there aren't fossil fuels burned to create more of it at a high-usage point, it simply exists, and a certain amount is available able at any given time slice. Paying for peak usage is what makes the most sense. And guess what. Teksavvy does that: they pay for 95th percentile usage (so if a freak occurrence happens they don't suddenly triple their bill). However, Bell is no longer providing that capacity, despite them paying for it.
In my apartment, we have 3 heavy internet users, our monthly usage is in the 400GB range evenly split in between upload and download. I'd suggest that we are probably easier to provision for than 3 users in the 50GB range that don't use P2P at all. Why? Those people will all be using it all at the same time, around the same time. However, P2P protocols smooth the usage to other periods of the day.
said by Nokiasac :
Anyways I would like to also add I think this whole business of the CRTC making telcos provide open access to their networks at cost + 15% to wholesalers destructive to innovation.
I think you don't understand what AT COST means. That means that they are recouping their initial investment costs. 3rd parties are paying for whatever equipment was needed to provision their customers. They're not getting a free ride. What's regulated is the amount of profit they're making: 15%. To be quite frank. I think that's a good amount. For instance, computer sales at the moment only have a 5-10% margin.
said by Nokiasac :
Perhaps utilities should all still be in the public hands so they are the ones that profit from their success not the shareholders.
Either that or simply held by NPOs. Government tends to not be very efficient. |
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Bellundo
@teksavvy.com | reply to warthunder2k
Easynews has the option to download via http. I hope bell can't or won't try to throttle that one. |
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anon34543
@rogers.com | reply to is_it_SSL
Where you downloading via BT or p2p at the same time as you were downloading via usenet? |
|
ymboc
join:2003-02-22
Ottawa, ON
1 edit | reply to ymboc
is_it_SSL: No, standard connection but on port 7000.
anon34543: No, usenet was the only application.
Bellundo: I'm looking into http options also.
I've posted some more details / musings in another more usenet specific thread |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | It has been said by Deadpool that running anything on a non-standard port (7000 is non-standard) causes the DPI system to misindentify it and throttle it as unknown. |
|
ymboc
join:2003-02-22
Ottawa, ON | ... I hope it isn't as simple as that... You're suggesting they've white listed nntp traffic on port 119? |
|
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
1 edit | Yes:
»Re: Setup Multiple VPN servors to combat Bell Throttle?
EDIT: Deadpool is Bell (Sympatico) management, so you know. |
|
ymboc
join:2003-02-22
Ottawa, ON | son-of-a-b...!... great so I've been spreading mis-information. Nothing pisses me off more than misinformation. F! |
|
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
 ·Colbanet
| Don't blame yourself too hard, the throttling is brand new, and we've got a TON of anecdotal evidence (or actual testing but spread all over). As the throttling stays in place for a longer period of time, we'll get a better idea of exactly how it works.
I'm just waiting for myself to get throttled in Montreal before I start testing things in earnest. It's a frustrating wait. I want to be throttled now  |
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xvioz
@teksavvy.com | reply to Bee Beep
Yay I'm getting throttled now... 30kb/s regular and 50 kb/s SSL/SSH. I love TekSavvy but fuck you Bell. |
|
foog
@teksavvy.com
| getting throttled here in the Ottawa valley too (Arnprior to be exact). I'm only mildly concerned that my bittorrents are downloading at under 30 kb/s, (after all, how much pr0n can one person watch) but I suspect my work (encrypted FTP transfer of big-assed files) is being affected too. Anyone else having similar problems? |
|
n00bicals3
join:2006-01-18
Carleton Place, ON | reply to Bee Beep
i know this is a dumb question, but is it possible for teksavvy to get their service from the US providers? is it possible to connect directly to the "raw" internet like the big telcos do? |
|
ftp1020
join:2007-01-30
Canada
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by n00bicals3 :i know this is a dumb question, but is it possible for teksavvy to get their service from the US providers? is it possible to connect directly to the "raw" internet like the big telcos do? They can and do (Peer1 and Cogent). The throttling problem exists between your house and Teksavvy, ie. Bell's copper wires and central offices/DSLAMs. Your phone wires would have to terminate somewhere other than Bell equipment to avoid the throttling. |
|
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to Bee Beep
Everyone knows that when parents tells kids to NOT do something, it is a sure bet that the kids will do it 
As a result, I downloaded BittOrent for my mac yesterday. I am a newbie at this.
I found a Linux ISO of Family Guy spoofing a Star Wars movie.
Tonight, I was barely doing 25KB/s and even less on the upload.
At 01:00 EDT, the number very rapidly rose to near 60 KB/s for both down and up (I now have about 50% of it downloaded, so I can start to feed new newcomers to the torrent).
If this is the shape of things to come, it makes downloeading somd 300meg file WAY too painful to be of use. This is absolutely terrible.
The technology is interesting. But last night, I tried to downlaod the same movie, (different file) and it turned out to be some microsoft WMV file with some DRM on it (aka: unusable file.
Hopefully the file that will have taken over 6 hours to download with some 29 seeders tonight will be usable.
Waiting 6 hours to find out if you can even do somethng with the file you've just downloaded is not tolerable. |
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n00bicals3
join:2006-01-18
Carleton Place, ON
| reply to Bee Beep
i see. i was recommending my parents to switch from bell to teksavvy once the contract runs out in the summer. i suppose its still worth it just to get away from the idiotic customer service! its not cheaper for them though until the modem is paid off, since they are on the old unlimited $35/month plan, which was great until they started with this nonsense... why don't rogers and bell invest in fiber networks? fios would be nice, and it would alleviate the so called congestion... i also think p2p would do great things for the distribution of HDTV under fibre optics, if only someone would step up and do it. |
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