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jc100
join:2002-04-10
| reply to Winerin
Re: That's a good thing
Wine,
You totally have missed the boat.
1) One theft of a car would be very similar to theft of wifi. The person leaving themselves open is negligent. As I stated above, if you leave your car running with the doors unlocked, you ARE RESPONSIBLE if it gets stolen. Sure the police will not press charges against you (though they could if say a child got into it and harmed people). Most likely, your insurance company would refuse to pay any claim due to the overall ignorance that went behind leaving your car running with the doors open. Similar to wifi, if you leave it open and people use it, it's your own damn fault. Learn the technology or the item in use, before enacting it. That's part of being an adult. The government HAS NO RIGHT to step in and enforce that fact. You pay for the internet, the equipment, etc, it's your responsibility to set it all up properly. Not doing so leaves you open to whatever headaches might arise from such negligence.
2) Unlimited is UNLIMITED. ISPS that advertised this have gotten in a LOT OF TROUBLE or changed their marketing. You do not promise customers something you cannot adhere to. Therefore, there is no stealing when one is promised the world and then some. | |
TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to JoeOnSunset
said by JoeOnSunset  : ... Just because you're ignorant of that, and that hardware manufacturerers aren't responsible enough to educate you, doesn't mean legislation is warranted--unless perhaps it's legislation mandating that WiFi routers come with a big red notice. Here is the crux of the entire thread. When my neighbor bought his first laptop (an HP with XP), he turned it on, and after putting in all his info, and answering yes to everything (this guy never owned a computer before), he was presented with a pretty desktop Connected to my OPEN wireless network. He came running over shouting "I have Internet", I got updates! how do I use email??
OK? WindoZ, in league with the wifi card manufacture made his laptop find and connect to the net automagically.
Like putting "do not take with alcohol" printed in red on some medications, it is the responsibility of the manufacture to put a warning on their hardware/software stating that if you don't do X and Y, you will be sharing your connection with anyone who wants to use it. This entire issue boils down to the industry catering to the lowest common denominator, to the dumbest of the dumb.
If I sold a car which came with a hard to remove sign saying "drive for free", and I made the doors hard to lock, and the keys hard to remove, whose fault is it if the car is used by a neighbor? The owner? Or the manufacture. You answer.
Apply this same normal life-logic to the issues of botnets, trojans, and viruses. Who is at fault? The same money-grabbing corporations, who sacrifice security for profit.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
Winerin
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Woodland Hills, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
1 edit | reply to JoeOnSunset
It is true, it is hard to prove unauthorized access. That is another issue and not what I was debating. I'm pretty sure that there are some out there that could care less on who uses their wireless access. Casual access (intentional or not) really shouldn't be a crime in itself, I do agree that much.
in regards to what is considered theft, however, most "unlimited" services are capped. If someone downloaded a bunch of stuff that caused you to get frozen, then in a sense something was stolen (bandwidth).
That would be an extreme case as it probably would take a lot of data to cause an account closure. However, something does not have to be tangible to considered stealable.
I am all for more education on computer security. But someday it may come down to forced encryption and security (i.e. registering your hardware MAC to your provider) if you want to or not. If it comes that far, then we place even more power to the government since we couldn't find a more independent solution. | |
JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| reply to joako
This is totally stupid. The fact is, unauthorized access to a computer network is already a crime in most jurisdictions. The only issue is, it's hard to prove a wi-fi freeloader is "unauthorized," since an open network is, by definition, OPEN.
To anyone who thinks that setting up a WiFi network configured as open is analogous to leaving your car unlocked: you're wrong. Analogies like these do not work in the world of networks. (Also, the internet is not a series of pipes, okay.)
A network is a RESOURCE, not a physical object like your car or your house. And it has a SYSTEM TO ADVERTISE ITSELF that STATES WHETHER it is OPEN ACCESS, or CLOSED.
Just because you're ignorant of that, and that hardware manufacturerers aren't responsible enough to educate you, doesn't mean legislation is warranted--unless perhaps it's legislation mandating that WiFi routers come with a big red notice. | |
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