swashbuckle
join:2008-03-15
| dsl reports blog material change.
Details
Background
• A blog was posted on the website “DSL Reports” explaining how to cancel a fixed term contract with Sympatico without paying the early termination fee.
• The blog is claiming that the Bandwidth Traffic Management which is being applied by Sympatico and other major ISPs in Canada, constitutes a “material change” to the service which allows the customer to cancel a fixed term contract (as opposed to a month to month) without having to pay the early termination fee.
Who is impacted?
• Existing customers on a fixed term contract (as opposed to month to month) who might have read the blog and are calling to cancel their contract prior to the end of their term.
Positioning
Mrs. / Mr. customer, in order to ensure a consistently high level of service for all our customers, Bell may be required to manage its network in such a way that no customer, service or application consumes excessive bandwidth which may impede the use and enjoyment of other customers. Bell has the right to manage its network to deliver a consistent and reliable experience to all its customers and doing so is not a material change to the service. Therefore, the early termination fee will apply if you wish to exit your contract before the end of your term.
Other Internet providers in Canada have implemented similar types of measures.
Please do not enter into any legal discussions with the client. It is strictly prohibited.
If you need more information about this subject, please visit our website
www.service.sympatico.ca
Click on “set-up and troubleshooting”, “installing, reinstalling & troubleshooting your high speed internet connection”, “Network management”
However, I can address any concerns that you might have about the Sympatico service
Do you have any concerns which would cause you to cancel your account? Because we would love for you to stay with us as our client. Do you have any other questions that I can clarify?
Questions
Answers
Why would you say that this is not a Material Change?
Mrs. / Mr. customer, I can certainly discuss your concerns about the service and the reason for wishing to cancel your account, but I am not at liberty to debate whether this is a material change to the service. It is Bell’s position that this is not a material change to the service. You are welcome to visit our website where you can read more about Bell’s network management policy.
Who can I speak with about this issue?
Mrs. / Mr. customer, You can certainly speak with a supervisor if you need to, however I assure you that we stand behind our network management policy. Bell has the right to manage its network to deliver a consistent and reliable experience to all its customers and doing so is not a material change to the service.
BO – Retention – Retention Access Scripting |
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GKC
join:2008-03-07
Toronto, ON | Appears to be a lot of repetition on this.  |
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EcHoMaN
join:2003-05-04
Toronto, ON
| reply to swashbuckle
said by swashbuckle  :Positioning Mrs. / Mr. customer, in order to ensure a consistently high level of service for all our customers, Bell may be required to manage its network in such a way that no customer, service or application consumes excessive bandwidth which may impede the use and enjoyment of other customers. Bell has the right to manage its network to deliver a consistent and reliable experience to all its customers and doing so is not a material change to the service. Therefore, the early termination fee will apply if you wish to exit your contract before the end of your term. That's like saying I own a race track and provide a place for people to race their cars; but because I no longer wish to continue upgrading my track because each year my customers are bringing faster/expensive cars to the track causing a faster degrading track and more upkeep, I cannot keep up with and provided an A class track in which their cars won't get wrecked.I have the right to manage my track and deliver a consistent,reliable, smooth experience to all my customers. All customers now are required to bring in un-modded VW beetles. Therefor if you wish to cancel my services you are required to pay my early term fee if you wish to continue to race your pony cars else where.
May be a crap analogy but I think most get the picture. Big corps need to start being held responsible for their shady actions. |
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Bell_Abused
join:2006-10-07
 ·Bell Sympatico
2 edits | reply to swashbuckle
bell responded to my post (and called it a blog)? I didn't know they cared. Maybe they will send me flowers for this one...
Well let me refute the bell spewed bullshit above & inform you, my dear fellow abused users;
If you buy a 5-meg or 7-meg or 16-meg profile you are paying damn good money for this.
If you are sold a 5-meg, 7-meg or 16-meg service, do you expect to get 30kB/s?
No, You expect to receive what you pay for, bought and were sold.
If you for one second believe what Bell had to spew above, then read no further.
If Bell installs hardware to IMPEDE what they have sold you, what you have bought, and what you pay for, and what is expected of your service profile, this is a material change in service.
If you call in to cancel your account and encounter this spewed scripted bullshit, do NOT accept their response. If they refuse to budge bring it to the top person who authorized this script. kevin.crull@bell.ca If that fails, a small claims court would most likely side with you since this is what was promised, sold and bought.
If you have a 5-meg profile, bought and paid for, and you USE IT, how is this impeding their network? I call bullshit, and so should you. Do not take their crap of a termation fee. Many people were smart enough to know the truth and used it to get out. Now they are trying to prevent more users from leaving.
Bell, up yours. k?
EDIT:
"sir/madame, Do you have any concerns which would cause you to cancel your account?"
WELL DUH. YOU ARE PURPOSELY IMPEDING WHAT I BOUGHT & PAID FOR.
EDIT 2:
I wish to make note for the record, although I wrote what they are spewing about above in DSLR's forum, I must give credit to the original poster of it.
OttawaGal, was the original writter from which I took the info and the original story can be found here: »www.p2pnet.net/story/13883
or the Sympat-DSLR news item to it here:
»The Black List
Credit should be given where credit is due.
Bell, please adjust your scripts.  |
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Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
 ·Cogeco Cable
 ·Cogeco Voip
| reply to swashbuckle
Their whining makes no sense to me at all.. First you have caps, which limit what you DL, but then you have overages if you decide that you WANT to go over, but only to a maximum of $30. (I guess thats changing)
Now you throw in throttling as well and claim its for other customers benefit..
Then you might as well sell a 1mbps line to everyone if you are going to nerf it to hell and back. The purpose of paying overages is to cover the cost of the BW used. And then you have companies like TS who have 200GB and unlimited cap accounts... So whos screwing who? If the answer isn't obvious by now, well I can't help ya. |
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Adam20
Premium
join:2007-07-19
Sarnia, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·Cogeco Voip
·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·Rogers Portable In..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Bell_Abused
Oh god, that's too funny, they are bleeding so much that they are trying to stop people from cancelling to keep the income coming in and they realise that they screwed up, and still wont do anything about it.
It Truly is pathetic,
I went into my garage today and found an old metal sign from Bell Telephone Company Of Canada, that sign atleast to me, made it seem like they were the " Good ole phone company", which at that time, strangely enough, they kinda were.
I don't know what possessed who ever is running the Bell Canada Enterprises but they truly messed up more then ever.
If this company continues to function in the way that they do they will just end up getting funds every month from people reselling their service, and the only clients they will have left are people that this sort of thing does not effect.
The throttling, questionable business practises and sweep it under the rug attitute that they are producting is the reason that I decided to end my employment at that company.
Telecommunications, the internet wireless truly interests me and many others, but yet again bell ruined something else.
God damn you bell! |
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unreal hah
@videotron.ca | reply to swashbuckle
Since there is a petition going to stop the throttle. Why not start somthing different. A sign of what we think of that scripted bullshit above to try and prevent users from leaving them.
Reply with 3 simple words...
UP YOURS BELL. |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to swashbuckle
All I'm going to say is the sh*t will hit the fan if it hasn't already and Bell just doesn't "get" it. You can't limit bandwidth without upgrading and they were slow on the ball.
It's not just internet either, with new wireless carriers coming into the market Bell needs to start fixing things now and the only way to fix it is to actually provide reasonable service and stop trying to screw us.
The petition is not going to do anything if the number of complains in this forum has not affected anything. I just hope they fix things before it's too late. |
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Adam20
Premium
join:2007-07-19
Sarnia, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·Cogeco Voip
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Rogers Portable In..
·Bell Sympatico
| I have cancelled all possible services with this company, the only thing I have left is wireless because I am on a 3 yr contract, and I have suspended that at the moment, and my just cancel it and pay the cancellation just to be done with it.
With new providers coming up shortly I may try one of them out, but I learned the hard way not to sign a contract.
Either that or ill get a cheap motorolla off of Tigerdirect and go to rogers, they seem to be a bit better, have always credited me when I had any issues, even a 250$ mistake that was my own fault.
Everyone who asks me which internet service to get or TV, or phone I always steer away from Bell, and I get asked quite frequently. I wonder if they realise how much money they are losing, from word of mouth alone!
I would really love to see some kind of figure, it would truly be astonishing.
The only chance I see this company having is the buy out, with it going private it could either save the company, or continue to fade away and become a cash cow, perhaps that is why they are becoming the way they have been, or they wanted the company to be purchased and figured this would be the easiest way.
Either way, Boo Bell! |
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Xempler
join:2007-12-13
North York, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to swashbuckle
I'm sure alot of people are cancelling because of the throttling and there would be even more if they weren't locked in a contract....like me.
I tried to cancel by using that "material change" argument and I was told sorry we're still going to charge you $100.
Ah well 4 more months and then I can finally leave this sad excuse of a high speed my ass company. |
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Adam20
Premium
join:2007-07-19
Sarnia, ON | Did you just try through the normal call center?
I would try and contact the executive office because theres no way that isn't a material change. |
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Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·Cogeco Voip
| reply to swashbuckle
I am really surprised that no one has dropped a law suit on them.. I realize you are paying for the standard "up to" service, but even the most basic of users can use network monitors to check out when its happening.
But I supposed they have the old "Its our network, we'll run it anyway we see fit" BS on a document somewhere |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | reply to Xempler
No matter what the article says you can leave and it is a material change.Its bell propoganda and if needed will be struct down in a court of law but will never get there because even thier lawyers are not that stupid. |
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Bell_Abused
join:2006-10-07
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | said by andyb :No matter what the article says you can leave and it is a material change.Its bell propoganda and if needed will be struct down in a court of law but will never get there because even thier lawyers are not that stupid. Have to agree with andyb (and its not often I do).
If you Email kevin.crull or call the business office and if you are willing to go to small claims court, I can almost be 99% certain Bell would settle and let you off before something like this went to court and news broke out that a court sided with you (plus damages for breach of contract).
Bell would not want this in small claims court for all to see.
besides what is the cost of small claims court? Its pretty negligable.
Quebec users can start a class-action against it, which would be subsidized by Quebec. Again, nothing lost. But Bell would lose.
said by Phorkster :I am really surprised that no one has dropped a law suit on them.. Chances are many have threatened small claims court and Bell waived the 100 or 200$ termination fee so it doesn't reach a court. This would be no surprise as this is regular business practice. |
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GoogleFreak
join:2008-03-25
Etobicoke, ON
| Yeah threaten you take them to small claims court, they will not want to do that. For one it would be stupid to use their lawyer, 2nd they can wait all day or even next day.
You probably could claim the money you paid for that month if you use voip and can't make or receive calls. Make sure to have receipts. Write everything down who you talk to etc. I canceled with Bell long time ago they gave me a confirmation number. They kept on sending me bills I demanded credit, which they claim they did finally they sent a credit agency after me I told the guy take a hike or I will take it to court and never heard from them. If you have Bell phone it is probably wise to get primus or rogers home phone quick. Perhaps get a new phone line because canceling, I just wouldn't trust Bell. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by GoogleFreak :Yeah threaten you take them to small claims court, they will not want to do that. For one it would be stupid to use their lawyer, 2nd they can wait all day or even next day. Um... that's not exactly true. bell has lawyers on retainer, as well as in-house lawyers. If someone files a civil claim, they have to answer. They may offer a settlement, but if refused, they will show up in court. And in SCC, advantage: Bell
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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hah look
@videotron.ca
| I just noticed this in the news article: »Screeching halt Broadband
"In retrospect, when Videotron (Quebec’s cable internet provider) changed its contract bandwidth policies from unlimited to a 100-gig cap, Quebec users fought back by contacting the Union des consommateurs (Consumers Union) to get a class-action lawsuit going against the company for false advertising and breach of contract."
French: »technaute.cyberpresse.ca/nouvell···op_short
English: »blog.fagstein.com/2007/08/23/a-c···deotron/
French: »www.consommateur.qc.ca/union/cod···rsId=847
Now if some Quebec users contacted the »www.consommateur.qc.ca about this, I woulder how it would turn out (hint hint) nothing lost in bringing it to their attention if you want out of your contract and Bell pulls the bullshit above.
Anyhow, chances are Bell would settle. This would be bad if a judge sided with a user, which they most probably would. It would set the precedent. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| reply to swashbuckle
Videotron also directly informed their customers that they could cancel within 30 days without paying an ETF. At least they're not being mean about it.
Bell can claim it's not a material change all they want; if the change causes you to no longer be able to use the connection for the purpose you purchased it for, that's a material change. If you push them hard enough, they'll waive the ETF. |
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yuppers
@videotron.ca
| said by Guspaz :Videotron also directly informed their customers that they could cancel within 30 days without paying an ETF. At least they're not being mean about it. Videotron also gave their users notice.
Think I had over 60-days notice with an opt-out.
All this and the users go for a class action.
With what Bell is pulling, i can see a class action being so much stronger. |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | Class action is only any good if you have an actual contract violation. |
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