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No hope for John/Jane, since security pros are confused too. »
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Zyniker
Zyniker
Premium
join:2004-12-25
Ann Arbor, MI

reply to Hangetsu
Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari

Some means of "opting out"? Try unchecking perhaps?
I think putting the option clearly on your screen and forcing you to click through the install is a pretty good 'opt out'... Anyway, if you don't have the time to read what you are accepting...then you have no right to complain about what happens to your computer. People who just click through installs are the same people that wind up with adware/spyware/viruses because they just clicked "Next".
--
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears this is true.

C DM

join:2002-12-31

said by Zyniker See Profile :

Some means of "opting out"? Try unchecking perhaps?
I think putting the option clearly on your screen and forcing you to click through the install is a pretty good 'opt out'... Anyway, if you don't have the time to read what you are accepting...then you have no right to complain about what happens to your computer. People who just click through installs are the same people that wind up with adware/spyware/viruses because they just clicked "Next".
That's not the point. The point is that something like this doesn't belong in an application that exists to update existing installed applications.


rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
Clearly, Apple would like people to just go ahead and install Safari. I opted out when the update notice appeared, but some would probably just click without thinking. That's a habit many people have.


GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
·Verizon FIOS

said by rcdailey See Profile :

but some would probably just click without thinking. That's a habit many people have.
Ah, a great snippet (not a shot at rcdailey See Profile).

opt in vs opt out. Both allow for the same functionality just in what the default assumption is.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter


rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA

It's also like the dialog box you get when Windows doesn't know what to do with a file. When you get the pop-up that allows you to choose the program with which to open the file, in that same window a box may be checked that tells Windows to always use that program. Often, that's not what I want to do, so I have to remember to uncheck that box.

impala

join:2008-03-08
Clemson, SC
·AT&T Southeast

reply to Zyniker
said by Zyniker See Profile :

Anyway, if you don't have the time to read what you are accepting...then you have no right to complain about what happens to your computer. People who just click through installs are the same people that wind up with adware/spyware/viruses because they just clicked "Next".
EXACTLY! These are the people whose computers I support. This is why it must be opt in not opt out.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

said by impala See Profile :

said by Zyniker See Profile :

Anyway, if you don't have the time to read what you are accepting...then you have no right to complain about what happens to your computer. People who just click through installs are the same people that wind up with adware/spyware/viruses because they just clicked "Next".
EXACTLY! These are the people whose computers I support. This is why it must be opt in not opt out.
Why would you think that because your people are too lazy to bother to read something that it should be opt in? NO, your people should learn to read. If they don't want to bother with that then they deserve whatever happens. There is NOTHING underhanded about the Apple updater. The only problem is idjits that refuse to pay attention to what they are doing. I can see where someone might accidently click too fast and get Safari and QuickTime installed when they didn't want them but most folks would not repeat that mistake. They would be more careful the next time.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason

m0d

join:2005-03-02
ireland


edit:
March 25th, @01:20AM

reply to rcdailey
"What's it doing checked to begin with?".. Exactly

I use QuickTime Alternative.. .. I seen no need for Apple software or tradition of deceptive practices (like it SO NEEDS to be in STARTUP) on my PC. Sorry. But that would be MY CHOICE right?

BTW I apply this policy to "Windows Media Player" too .. The simple media player .. IS NOT or will EVER BE "part of the OS or a required update". So auto ticking it is sneaky at best.

And finally its MY CPU/MEM.. you cant assume autostart/install just because you think that will be a "marketing tool"

That just goes against the principle of free computing.

The default needs to be OPT OUT .. not "in".. gg marketing dept.

And yes .. Comrade DM is seeing things right too..

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

You and most everyone else in this thread are getting upset and wasting time on a very minor thing that you can easily fix by paying attention and unchecking the boxes.

There is however a huge, very nasty, extremely worrisome plan on the part of most major ISPs in the USA (and all three major ones in England already) to screw you up one side and down the other and inside and out. Where are all the protests about Phorm? How many of you in this thread even know what that is...even vaguely know... much less have studied this major threat to the internet and users privacy in depth? Your energies should be directed to something truly important that if not stopped dead in its tracks soon will dramatically change the internet as we know it forever. We in the USA have no laws to protect our citizens from Phorm being used by the ISPs. Even in England where there are privacy laws it is a current major uphill battle.

The above may seem OT on the surface but it isn't because I am trying to make an important point here. Save your energy and protests for something that really matters and needs your help, your attention, your outrage. Don't sweat the small stuff.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason

m0d

join:2005-03-02
ireland


edit:
March 25th, @02:07AM

"RealPlayer 10 is configured to run the Message Center program automatically at system startup and RealPlayer shutdown. The Message Center has generated controversy because it features advertisements for bands, and for material that may be considered unacceptable for children, such as "Hottest Hollywood Sex Scenes," featured on January 27, 2007. Although there is an option to turn the messages off, RealPlayer 10 will automatically turn some message options back on. As a result, the Message Center will almost always pop up with new messages, in an adware like behavior.[40] However, since version 10.5, it is possible to turn the Message Center off completely.[citation needed]"

src: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealPlayer

I will leave you to consider that .. once a bad guy? always a bad guy .. don't assume we want crap in our startup thx.

.. to me that is "deceptive practice" .. just like any malware anyone cared to mention .. so yeah .. trust is gone there for me. There is a long history of it trying nasty stuff on "startup" .. and well its your CPU/MEM .. not theirs..

"In 2006 PC World Magazine named RealPlayer (of 1999) as #2 in its list of the 25 worst products of all time.[37] In 2007, it placed RealPlayer (of 1996-2004) at #5 in its list of the 20 most annoying tech products.[38] In 2008 StopBadware.org called RealPlayer "badware" due to failure to completely disclose software components it installs as well as leaves behind after being un-installed.[39]"

So yeah .. whos comp is this? see?

C DM

join:2002-12-31

reply to Mele20
said by Mele20 See Profile :

You and most everyone else in this thread are getting upset and wasting time on a very minor thing that you can easily fix by paying attention and unchecking the boxes.

There is however a huge, very nasty, extremely worrisome plan on the part of most major ISPs in the USA (and all three major ones in England already) to screw you up one side and down the other and inside and out. Where are all the protests about Phorm? How many of you in this thread even know what that is...even vaguely know... much less have studied this major threat to the internet and users privacy in depth? Your energies should be directed to something truly important that if not stopped dead in its tracks soon will dramatically change the internet as we know it forever. We in the USA have no laws to protect our citizens from Phorm being used by the ISPs. Even in England where there are privacy laws it is a current major uphill battle.

The above may seem OT on the surface but it isn't because I am trying to make an important point here. Save your energy and protests for something that really matters and needs your help, your attention, your outrage. Don't sweat the small stuff.
Since when a discussion of something suddenly becomes a protest or something that is pointless? A forum is a place of discussion, and it seems like that is what is happening here. Does it really matter how big or a small a topic is, as long as it's a topic and people are discussing it? No one (at least that I am aware of) was making some huge point about it one way or another, and trying to make sure some strong action was taken or something like that--it was simply being pointed out and discussed.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

reply to m0d
That and the post below are rather incoherent...especially the one below which makes no sense at all. I have no idea what you were trying to say in it. In this post, I gather you don't like Real Player. I don't know what Real Player has to do with what I said that set you off. I said that Rhapsody has better music selection than IPod. I didn't say anything about Real Player.

Much of your rant is incorrect anyway. Real Player (not Rhapsody player) from Real.com doesn't take over file associations or anything else on your computer as long as you PAY ATTENTION when installing it just as you should pay attention when installing/updating an application from Apple. I never had Real Player 10. I had 8,9 and 10.5 that I recall. I never saw any ads in Real Player. I use the Proxomitron. In fact, when Rhapsody first came out many years ago from Listen.com (they were not owned by Real back then) I had the Technical Service Manager call me long distance from California several times and he spent several HOURS on the phone with me trying to get Rhapsody to work with Proxo.

Your post and my reply are OT so I'm stopping here.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·ViaTalk
·AT&T DSL Service

reply to C DM
said by C DM See Profile :

said by Zyniker See Profile :

Some means of "opting out"? Try unchecking perhaps?
I think putting the option clearly on your screen and forcing you to click through the install is a pretty good 'opt out'... Anyway, if you don't have the time to read what you are accepting...then you have no right to complain about what happens to your computer. People who just click through installs are the same people that wind up with adware/spyware/viruses because they just clicked "Next".
That's not the point. The point is that something like this doesn't belong in an application that exists to update existing installed applications.
Exactly my thoughts Comrade. I don't have Safari installed on my machine, I have zero use for it. I have iTunes and Quicktime (unfortunetly) installed. I expect an "updater" to do what it is supposed to do-update installed software.

When I download something new ie Yahoo Messenger etc I have to uncheck all the extra installs for search bars. I don't mind that as I am choosing to download that software so I view that as something different.

If I run the updater for my TuneUp Utilities software let's say, I expect to get updates for the product-NOT updates plus trials of other products "opted in" already by being checked. Sometimes I am running an update in the morning while getting dressed and trying to get my 5 year old out the door. I would have been ticked if I ran the iTunes updater then and had Safari bundled in.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

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