Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari in Security

Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20218301 en Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:22:18 EDT Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:22:18 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20355718 jmorlan : Here's a screen shot of the new version. "Updates" at at the top and are now separated from "New Software" at the bottom.

However, all "New Software" is pre-checked. The dialog offers to Quit or Install.

Also the "Ignore Updates" now seems to work as expected.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20355718 Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:15:23 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20354979 C DM :

said by grumpi

:

Apparently Apple has made some changes, not sure if Safari is still checked by default though:

Apple Ends Stealth Safari Installs Via Software Update For Windows:
»www.informationweek.com/news/int···07400701

Sounds like even Apple agreed that the discussion like the one here was in fact meaningful and relevant. Glad to see that some action was taken. It's still somewhat strange, rationally speaking to list updates to new software--how can there be an update to a software that you don't even have, or why would you care about it--but at least it should be separated and more straightforward. It would be good that those "new updates" would hopefully even be unchecked by default, which would be the right thing to do, and that any ignored updates would not become unignored simply when a "new update" for them becomes available, which also seems like a normal thing to do. I guess it remains to be seen how it actually works with the updated version of Apple's software update.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20354979 Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:08:55 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20354046 grumpi : Apparently Apple has made some changes, not sure if Safari is still checked by default though:

Apple Ends Stealth Safari Installs Via Software Update For Windows:
»www.informationweek.com/news/int···07400701]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20354046 Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:43:00 EDT Re: LOOK OUT, it's entrapment ! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20240725 Davebo_ : Upon reflection, I do not wish to post. Take me back!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20240725 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:51:40 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20239349 RadioDoc : Exactly.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20239349 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:10:16 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20239309 mike31mets : this is a hypothetical situation but I think it gets the point across.

Say Microsoft has a version of IE 8 that's available for OS X 10.5 for beta testing. With the release of Office 2008, they start publishing updates for Office 2008 applications. Then one month, they decide to make IE 8 for Mac an official release. The next roll of updates that show up in the Microsoft Auto-Updater with Office 2008 has updates for Office applications AND IE 8 for Mac.

You can bet your ass the courts would be on Microsoft's ass for monopolistic practices for using an already popular application which they control the majority of the market in to increase another application's popularity (as if IE doesn't control enough of the web browser market).

It's the same thing with Apple here. Apple controls most of the MP3 player market. iPods require iTunes in order to add music. iTunes as we know will install QuickTime. You get the Apple Updater which updates those two applications. But now Apple decides to use it's strangle on the MP3 player market to try to increase it's market for its own web browser.

Yea you can simply uncheck the option. But that's not even the point here. Neither Office 2008 came with IE 8 for Mac, nor did iTunes/Quick Time come with Safari. Why either application would show up in their respective software updaters is inexcusable. It's a cheap tactic. No matter what company does it. If Microsoft does it, it doesn't make it right for Apple to do it, nor does it make it right that Microsoft or any other company does it. Like they say, two wrongs don't make a right. How anyone can defend this cheap tactic and just brush it off is unclear to me knowing the facts present.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20239309 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:56:13 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238748 C DM :

said by Woody79_00

:

Personally i think the post and crying on Sandi's Blog(I respect Sandi) is just lame. Although Sandi is an avid Microsoft supporter, would be the last one to cry if Microsoft did something like this

Remember when Microsoft Automatic Updates installed Windows Search 3.1 on peoples machines without their permission not too long ago....that seriously fragged business computers, but nothing was said about that by Sandi or some other folks

Besides, We use Quicktime where i work and not a single computer in our place has Safari on it and we have apple software update on ours

Ever hear of "Software Restriction Policies"? there a really good thing, that can be implemented on the Servers in your environment...a simple Restriction policy against the Safari executable prevents it from installing...Problem solved..i know where i work that is exactly what they did via the domain....it was an easy fix as well..

this is just senseless whining IMO

it would be different if a company was pushing a toolbar or a piece of spyware, but its not. besides, any secure business has software restriction policies implemented anyways, and if they don't, they are just asking for it. Many businesses have been whitelisting for awhile now....Scripts are pushed to our machines on a daily basis that update Software Restriction Policies locally as well everytime the machine is rebooted

all im saying is, if admins don't want it, then use software Restriction Policies and move on

There was enough of a similar outcry when Microsoft did something similar as well, let's not pretend like there wasn't (and it really doesn't matter if it's the same people or not). The bottom line is not what else should be set up properly or done properly, the point is that it doesn't belong there in the first place. It's funny that anyone who has tried to take the other side of this never addresses that part of it, and often even admits that that's the case, yet moves on to talk about other things like other settings, or simplicity of unselecting something, or the need to read things carefully--none of that is the point, none of that is relevant to the point that is being discussed here, which is simply that it doesn't belong there to begin with, period. Why are we going off on tangents talking about all kinds of other stuff around it and not about that very simple point? Simply because that point can't be argued with and instead of leaving it at that and admitting that it's incorrect people bring a host of other things into the discussion just for the sake of argument.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238748 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:57:42 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238679 MysticGogeta : I think the real issue is that they are pulling a Microsoft, by tying in software there trying to get you to install with out paying attention.
--
Team Discovery-Join the fight]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238679 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:44:00 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238665 Woody79_00 : Personally i think the post and crying on Sandi's Blog(I respect Sandi) is just lame. Although Sandi is an avid Microsoft supporter, would be the last one to cry if Microsoft did something like this

Remember when Microsoft Automatic Updates installed Windows Search 3.1 on peoples machines without their permission not too long ago....that seriously fragged business computers, but nothing was said about that by Sandi or some other folks

Besides, We use Quicktime where i work and not a single computer in our place has Safari on it and we have apple software update on ours

Ever hear of "Software Restriction Policies"? there a really good thing, that can be implemented on the Servers in your environment...a simple Restriction policy against the Safari executable prevents it from installing...Problem solved..i know where i work that is exactly what they did via the domain....it was an easy fix as well..

this is just senseless whining IMO

it would be different if a company was pushing a toolbar or a piece of spyware, but its not. besides, any secure business has software restriction policies implemented anyways, and if they don't, they are just asking for it. Many businesses have been whitelisting for awhile now....Scripts are pushed to our machines on a daily basis that update Software Restriction Policies locally as well everytime the machine is rebooted

all im saying is, if admins don't want it, then use software Restriction Policies and move on]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238665 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:42:12 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238400 RadioDoc : It may be happening already. I had a Java update today which restricted itself to the update and an ad for Open Office rather than attempting to get me to download OO.o from the 'updater'.

Apple really should know better.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238400 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:00:17 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238357 EGeezer : There's no doubt that those with large numbers of systems to support in a business environment are upset at these developments, and the ones adamantly screaming "just uncheck it, stupid" don't have to deal with such environments or the fallout from new unauthorized applications being installed on dozens or hundreds of user systems.

I suspect that the corporate IT people will drive changes to this creeping "opt-out" pattern in updates by applying pressure on the vendors or by switching applications.
--
Mayors of New York come from nowhere and go nowhere.
Wallace Sayre (apparently, so do governors... )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238357 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:52:40 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238297 Doctor Four : A lot of system admins would think otherwise about some of the comments made here, particularly those that say just to uncheck it and move on, or that it really is no big deal. I read this comment on Sandi Hardmeier's blog, Spyware Sucks: (emphasis mine)

said by Sandi Hardmeier :
The grumblings about the Safari push are getting louder; there is an interesting conversation on the patchmanagement mailing list with unhappiness being the order of the day - there are upset administrators out there who are having to deal with what, in reality, is unauthorised software on their networks that is only there because many of them felt that they had no choice but to allow the Apple Software Update mechanism to be installed on their users' computers when a critical security update for QuickTime could only be downloaded via that tool. It is bad enough that we were forced to install the Update Mechanism so that we could get the security patch - now insult has been added to the injury by Apple using that security mechanism to introduce new, unauthorised, unwanted, software to our users.

--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238297 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:42:51 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238156 C DM :

said by Woody79_00

:

No I don't work for Apple, im just impressed! that is all, just impressed!

Now granted Firefox, IE7 and even Safari all leak memory, but I think IE7 leaks memory the worse out of the 3...now on the fiorefox vs Safari memory leak, I can't say...its unfair to lots of firefox users to say its leak more memory because of add-ons and what not. Although i will say i Think firefox 3 will beat the pants off of IE8 probably

As for the EULA thing, that is just a mistake by Apple. They offered it to my Computer via the apple update, and it is clearly listed on their website...they would be moronic to come after any windows user who installed it...i'll gladly go to Court on that one and walk away with a huge chunk of money....if they would pursue that they would lose in court, besides, they ammended the eula anyways

But im just saying finally something to replace netscape is all im saying...finally it has come

I loved IE until IE7....Microsoft just ruined it...the phishing filter just slows things down and was implemented incorrectly, horrible web standards support, etc..just bad

IE6 was awesome in comparison

but I just want to say im also proud of Mozilla and Firefox and Thuderbird..they have come a long away in the last few years, its good to see someone really challenging Microsoft in the Browser market, maybe Apple can to...force Microsoft to deliver a better product.

but folks complaing about Apple trying to "Force" users on Safari...that is not true

1.Apple software updates give you the option to remove it or not check it

2.Your not forced to install it at all

how about Microsoft making IE7 a Critical Update and "forcing" most users to install it via automatic updates? even those who don't want it

how bout microsoft "forcing" IE down folks throats and heck you can't even uninstall it for crying out loud...that is bad

I was so against the idea when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows...it was a big mistake..espcially in a security sense.

im just saying im happy with safari....give it a shot, maybe you guys will like it...if not, you can always uninstlal it

No one said anything about forcing--people just hear what they like to, don't they? This is all about an updater application bringing up a whole new installation rather than just an update, which certainly doesn't belong in an updater application. There's nothing about "forcing" or even what the application is. All this talk about how good or bad Safari is, or that you don't really need to install it if you don't want to, or that you should carefully check things before doing anything, or anything of that sort, is completely unrelated and takes the attention away from the actual issue, which isn't that at all--it's simply about the fact that a brand new installation has no place in a context of an update, period (simple and to the point). Talking about anything else simply dodges the issue and tries to take people's attention onto other unrelated things.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238156 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:22:31 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238039 Woody79_00 : Just a note

All the memory leaks in Firefox, Internet Explorer, etc all have 1 common denominator...Adobe Flash Player..it fails to "dispose" of bitmaps with its garbage collector so it just keeps chewing memory

If Adobe doesn't fix this in a few weeks with their new Flashplayer release, then im uninstalling Flash and will be "praying" Microsoft Silverlight(which is 10 times better anyways) drives them out of the web content business]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238039 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:07:18 EDT Re: LOOK OUT, it's entrapment ! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237666 dave : I would, but "arse technica" is such an off-putting name.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237666 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:12:00 EDT Re: LOOK OUT, it's entrapment ! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237563 Davebo_ :

said by dave

:

Don't install Safari on your Wintel PC, or the Apple Security Corp will be around to kick in your door for EULA violations!

Article here.

I see your problem, Dave - you need to read a real tech news site... ;)

»arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···xes.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237563 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:00:45 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237533 jmorlan : That example of FireFox with Safari-looking Theme looks to me like Clear Type may not have been enabled. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237533 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:57:23 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237507 Woody79_00 : No I don't work for Apple, im just impressed! that is all, just impressed!

Now granted Firefox, IE7 and even Safari all leak memory, but I think IE7 leaks memory the worse out of the 3...now on the fiorefox vs Safari memory leak, I can't say...its unfair to lots of firefox users to say its leak more memory because of add-ons and what not. Although i will say i Think firefox 3 will beat the pants off of IE8 probably

As for the EULA thing, that is just a mistake by Apple. They offered it to my Computer via the apple update, and it is clearly listed on their website...they would be moronic to come after any windows user who installed it...i'll gladly go to Court on that one and walk away with a huge chunk of money....if they would pursue that they would lose in court, besides, they ammended the eula anyways

But im just saying finally something to replace netscape is all im saying...finally it has come

I loved IE until IE7....Microsoft just ruined it...the phishing filter just slows things down and was implemented incorrectly, horrible web standards support, etc..just bad

IE6 was awesome in comparison

but I just want to say im also proud of Mozilla and Firefox and Thuderbird..they have come a long away in the last few years, its good to see someone really challenging Microsoft in the Browser market, maybe Apple can to...force Microsoft to deliver a better product.

but folks complaing about Apple trying to "Force" users on Safari...that is not true

1.Apple software updates give you the option to remove it or not check it

2.Your not forced to install it at all

how about Microsoft making IE7 a Critical Update and "forcing" most users to install it via automatic updates? even those who don't want it

how bout microsoft "forcing" IE down folks throats and heck you can't even uninstall it for crying out loud...that is bad

I was so against the idea when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows...it was a big mistake..espcially in a security sense.

im just saying im happy with safari....give it a shot, maybe you guys will like it...if not, you can always uninstlal it]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237507 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:54:02 EDT Re: LOOK OUT, it's entrapment ! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237263 SUMware :

said by RadioDoc

:

PWN 2 OWN over: MacBook Air gets seized in 2 minutes flat

More info here:
»Hackers to challenge Windows, Mac OS X and Linux next week]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237263 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:20:13 EDT Re: LOOK OUT, it's entrapment ! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237233 RadioDoc :

said by dave

:

Don't install Safari on your Wintel PC, or the Apple Security Corp will be around to kick in your door for EULA violations!

Ah, it's all a grand plan to infect Windows PCs with Safari and then destroy them when the user innocently uses it.

PWN 2 OWN over: MacBook Air gets seized in 2 minutes flat

I think Apple might want to rethink those commercials.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237233 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:16:59 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236823 grumpi :

said by sharpy merc

said by Woody79_00

:

...

I just loaded Safari...

Do you work for Apple by any chance (full discloser is legally required)

I was thinking the same thing! :)

No offense Woody79_00, but you said you "just loaded it"
...yet you're already able to come to all those definitive conclusions and declare it essentially flawless?
LOL!
:D

-------
Edit: spelling]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236823 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:10:51 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236445 skyroket : I tried to keep all the variables the same, but as you can probably tell, there is an extra instance of MSPaint running during the FireFox memory usage screenshot, so it's not entirely accurate.

FireFox with Safari-looking Theme
Safari
FireFox memory usage
Safari memory usage

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236445 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:08:21 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236237 anon : Doesn't use alot of memory? Apparently you don't look at the task manager. Safari consumes alot of memory. Just open it and click around a little with just one tab open. Gobble gobble. Strange something is called a 'memory leak' in Firefox, but exquisite technology in Safari.

Safari is ok, but it's no Fx and it never will be until Apple really opens it up and people start making add-ins for it(the Windows version)-which I don't see happening. Then there's the whole mismatched experience it gives running on Windows, its awkward. Also why is there no Linux version? It runs on OSX and Windows, so there should be a Linux version as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236237 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:34:06 EDT LOOK OUT, it's entrapment ! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236048 dave : Don't install Safari on your Wintel PC, or the Apple Security Corp will be around to kick in your door for EULA violations!

Article here.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20236048 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:06:12 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235953 sharpy merc :

said by Woody79_00

:

Just Clicking

I just loaded Safari on a windows machine just to see what it was like...i must say i have finally found a browser!

IE7 on vista IE7 in general just sucks, even with protected mode it sucks...firefox im jut not a fan over, same with opera and others

Finally a browser that is "Elegant" sleek, fast, doesn't use alot of memory, and is just overall a wonderful web browsing experience

Now i knowa few flaws have been found, but come on! this is the 1st release for Apple for a Browser on the Windows Platform!

Give it some time, they will fix them and will improve upon Safari!

i know im not using Internet Explorer anymore, whcih i was a diehard IE fan, but I hated IE7 but there was no real alternative as firefox IMo is worse then IE7 and nothing else out there is viable

Finally a true viable Browser!

when it comes to user interface, ease of use, and what not, you cna't beat this apple browser

and the Phishing filter is just garbage, all it does is slow things down

finally a browser that doesn't eat memory like a pig, and is mega fast and sleek...im in love

I haven't liked a Browser this much Since Netscape! finally a web browser worth using!

Do you work for Apple by any chance (full discloser is legally required)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235953 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:53:22 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235804 Woody79_00 : Just Clicking

I just loaded Safari on a windows machine just to see what it was like...i must say i have finally found a browser!

IE7 on vista IE7 in general just sucks, even with protected mode it sucks...firefox im jut not a fan over, same with opera and others

Finally a browser that is "Elegant" sleek, fast, doesn't use alot of memory, and is just overall a wonderful web browsing experience

Now i knowa few flaws have been found, but come on! this is the 1st release for Apple for a Browser on the Windows Platform!

Give it some time, they will fix them and will improve upon Safari!

i know im not using Internet Explorer anymore, whcih i was a diehard IE fan, but I hated IE7 but there was no real alternative as firefox IMo is worse then IE7 and nothing else out there is viable

Finally a true viable Browser!

when it comes to user interface, ease of use, and what not, you cna't beat this apple browser

and the Phishing filter is just garbage, all it does is slow things down

finally a browser that doesn't eat memory like a pig, and is mega fast and sleek...im in love

I haven't liked a Browser this much Since Netscape! finally a web browser worth using!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235804 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:34:18 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234632 C DM :

said by Drunkula

:

FWIW:
The only review I've read of Safari's latest version on Windows was for the most part positive. The author stated that they've made significant strides. But he also stated that it uses it's own font rendering engine for font smoothing instead of Windows' native ClearType - and that the font rendering sucked. The one screenshot I saw confirmed that!

Yet there's a whole thread discussing a security flaw already. Not to mention--and this is the main point--that it really doesn't matter what Safari is or how good or bad it is, the whole thing is that for those who never had it installed to begin with, it's not an update and therefore has no place to appear in an updater application, not to mention already selected, for those people.

said by Grail Knight

:

I gave Safari a trail and did not have any issues with the graphics but cookie handling was poor. I think that comes more from being spoiled by Fx's cookie handling.

Safari was fast and aside from having to decline the offer for more software installation is smooth.

Uninstalling it was a weak point with bits and pieces left over requiring some manual registry cleaning and deleting files left over.
-----
I am not a fan of using questionable marketing/bundling tactics to get software to consumers but just slowing down for a sec to read when installing software before clicking would solve a ton if issues for some users.

Well, slowing down to read is certainly something that should always be done, but that doesn't excuse at all sticking something irrelevant into an application that shouldn't even have it to begin with for a lot of people. I certainly never rushed through it and unchecked everything and even used the ignore functionality to get rid of it in the updater in the future (knowing that it will come back automatically when there's a newer version that becomes available--nice ignore functionality design there, by the way), but why should I even have to do this when I simply would like to update existing software that I already have installed using an application that was specifically designed for that very task, which turns out to be designed for way more than just that, which is certainly not what I (and pretty much most others) have agreed to or expected (again, despite the fact that I still read through everything and make appropriate decisions).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234632 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:52:01 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233588 Grail Knight : I gave Safari a trail and did not have any issues with the graphics but cookie handling was poor. I think that comes more from being spoiled by Fx's cookie handling.

Safari was fast and aside from having to decline the offer for more software installation is smooth.

Uninstalling it was a weak point with bits and pieces left over requiring some manual registry cleaning and deleting files left over.
-----
I am not a fan of using questionable marketing/bundling tactics to get software to consumers but just slowing down for a sec to read when installing software before clicking would solve a ton if issues for some users.
--
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact". - Sherlock Holmes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233588 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:07:50 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233268 Drunkula : FWIW:
The only review I've read of Safari's latest version on Windows was for the most part positive. The author stated that they've made significant strides. But he also stated that it uses it's own font rendering engine for font smoothing instead of Windows' native ClearType - and that the font rendering sucked. The one screenshot I saw confirmed that!
--
There are 10 types of people that understand binary numbers. Those that do - and those that do not...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233268 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:36:56 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233042 GeekNJ :

said by RadioDoc

:

The most vocal apologists are Apple fans. Your motives are unclear at best but I don't see anyone accusing you of being Jobs' PR bitch.

I have no idea about any of the other posters that don't see it as Apple taking over your life. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but I don't have any issue with it (see my original post) and I could care less if it was apple, Adobe (they do it), etc. The fact that you used "apologists" confirms my statement I made about people having an opinion being classified as fanboys/shills. It's just a silly assumption.

I have no motive other then provide another perspective on the posts by those calling to sue apple, boycott apple in the future (but not now because I actually have a vested interest in using them), etc. To me there's nothing sneaky or underhanded that occurs without you accepting what they are presenting. It's really that clear to me.

As for your initial post in the thread, it wasn't about the issue but about the people that didn't take exception to the issue. You posted that you uninstalled everything which I think is the only rational thing to do if you have a problem with it. Maybe if everyone did so vs post that they might sometime in the future when it is convenient to them, it would make a point to the company that impacts them.

I can't see how you can call my motive unclear while not taking issue with every single person that felt the need to respond to my posts. What are their motives - are they Amazon employees that dislike iTunes? Are they iRiver employees, MS employees? Why is it that anyone that disagrees MUST have a motive and anyone that seems to have the opinion you do is fighting for the good of all?

I have an opinion that disagrees with yours and others, though there are others here (you call them apple loyalists which I guess you feel is ok to do) who, like me, don't have an issue. It's as simple as that.

This will be my last post in the thread since the discussion has turned from one about the actual issue to comments about those posting. So unless someone quotes me or asks a specific question, I'll just watch from the sidelines.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233042 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:58:18 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232967 StraitShoot : An 8 page thread, eh?

Well, I feel "violated" by Apple and I don't like the way Apple was "undressing" me with it's eyes...

LOL,
Jim
--
I'm proud to be a troublemaker! America was founded by "troublemakers"!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232967 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:49:43 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232581 m0d : "The most vocal apologists are Apple fans"

.. and if that point was made? It would be only point I wanted to make .. deceptive installs on PC.. ppl that listen? WIN.. in the end..

.. just .. a history of deceptive installers + this = not what u want .. correct it and NOW!! :)

Also .. I am from a UNIX background .. NOT PC crap .. u know Sun Solaris and all that .. for 4+ yrs as admin ..2k+ users.. does Mac have a point to make on OS/Hardware/software .. other than LOT less popular? that and over priced + modified unix? I am not at all sure that markets well .. are you? call me controversial? sure .. but .. hmm .. show us all the "value" of MAC or its OS.. in a PC world...

I ask you for your marketing model + your response when you become the prime target of attacks.. (if u did take over) bear in mind .. there are many unpatched Unix sploits on which u based your OS code no? So what would it be that made the mac user more secure .. other than less popular for now.. show me an answer to that .. and as a Unix Admin .. for multiple sites I would be impressed.. just you wont have one..

I am FAR from aggressive .. just we hear this MAC thing constant .. and what exactly makes it more secure ? Just a legit question for me?

Is there like something NEW I missed?

MAC = same as all .. just less supported.. and even if it did win prime time? It would be exploited just as easy.. and I say that as a Unix admin .. on which your OS was based.. the issue is not that I need to prove to you .. rather .. you need to prove to me .. if you wish to gain some market acceptance.. ANOTHER TIP .. stop with the 2x prices.. that don't lend self to "acceptance" see?

I am not "dead against mac" .. just hmm what is your exposure to attacks at any point in time? and well yeah its unix based os .. so NO.. your not gonna be immune .. to attack .. what would make you think that way?

INTERESTING.. but worrying.. see? EXPLAIN

Maybe I digressed enough .. just I would like some answers to those questions because long-standing.. and well I realise I divert from OP now .. and I will stop.. just hmm "interesting" how peoples perceptions are:

1) ARE Apple "updater" behaviours acceptable in 2008? When the UPDATER .. should UPDATE .. and NOT be the INSTALLER of new "unaccepted" crap .. even if that is on the PC platform?

2) Just how would any of Apple's OS be MORE secure .. when it had much LESS exposure to attack.. and well based on Unix to start with .. for which there are exploits?

3) ah well .. wishful thinking .. there will be no "magic bullet"

4) look at 1) .. is that any way to win the world over? LOL

5) GG.. GB RE? Thx for the fun though.. Like this .. you cant "invade" another platform.. with your infectious installer .. and well go back to marketing dept .. to find root cause.. oh dear apple.. iPod .. iOwn .. iLost.. see?

Assume NOTHING.. if you wish for respect :)

So yes .. Apple? cannot Dictate to me .. OR you .. what we install .. or what we don't.. and NEVER will .. see?

Sry Apple fans .. that is just the truth.. Ill sooner be on a Linux laptop.. so that is a ploy that just don't work.. ever.. Ill sooner be on Linux VM/laptop and get the apps I need from Open Src etc

Nice try tho..

About 10 yrs too late.. GG GB RE? Your done here if that was your philosophy.. sry..

.. and this would be a post directed at the MAC ppl.. who wont reply .. or .. if they did .. its gonna be lame.. so yeah .. show us .. your false insecurities .. PLZ? Feel free.. Maybe take a visit to Zone-H.org and see that unix variants are hmm among those most spolited .. so ill say no more .. 61.64% .. LOL ,, "OH DEAR"..

And I am only open ppls eyes .. that may have been closed.. reconsider..

So yes .. MAC OS is how immune again? NOTHING is immune .. or ever will be .. so hmm interesting.. very interesting .. tell me more?

this is another "vendor independent post" and Mele20 r0x .. don't mess with her or its like "upset me too" :)

Serious? Mac ppl .. just get real .. you are no more immune to exploits than the rest.. And NO Apple should NOT be allowed do what it liked on the PC "platform". That would be because of ppl like me .. and no sry we don't accept.. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232581 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:47:33 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232571 RadioDoc : Oddly, you are the only one who seems to think my comment is directed at you.

This discussion is going on in multiple fora at multiple venues. The most vocal apologists are Apple fans. Your motives are unclear at best but I don't see anyone accusing you of being Jobs' PR bitch.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232571 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:44:53 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232220 m0d : Ahh see? Mele and I agree:

"Instead, Apple tried to "sneak" those absolutely horrible, obscene ITunes shit and Quicktime crap on me."

"Ah...geez...the Apple Updater IS the Apple installer."

Exactly.. and we would not be alone in being upset with that idea..

This (for me) is the difference in terminology .. the INSTALLER vs the UPDATER:

INSTALLER: should install NEW products from that company I DON'T already have AND by MY choice.

UPDATER: should ONLY update INSTALLED products .. not foist stuff on my pc and startup

So that Apple "updater" is basically FLAWED.. if it "updates" applications that were NEVER "installed".. That I have a gripe with and Apple would do themselves no favors there. BTW I have tried out Safari and kind of liked it to some extent. But they cant "steamroll" say FireFox with deceptive install practices. That is no way to win friends in this world. So my advice to Apple would be FIX what we see as installer BUGS. Do not appear to "foist" and continue good work on your products. In time we can check them out for ourselves by our own choice :)

I will re-read my post Mele and PM a clarification of whatever point I made .. but basically, reading your subsequent posts, I doubt our opinions are that far apart. Also I know at times I am a bit "factual" or short with people so I apologise in advance if that caused any offence.

EGeezer .. excellent link .. there are others out there that see the same difference between installer/updater and this goes against the principle of its "MY computer" etc.. Apple have made strides in a positive sense .. and I wish them well .. just this would be the kind of "update practice" they do not need to associate themselves with.

Edit .. I saw something to correct:
src: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealPlayer

"RealPlayer (briefly known also as RealOne Player) is a cross-platform media player by RealNetworks that plays a number of multimedia formats including MP3, MPEG-4, QuickTime,"

What real player had to do with this was it supported QT movie format.. and well used same deceptive practices as QT did with startup/updater etc..hence Real Alternative = your choice for playback apple .mov etc .. QuickTime got bundled with a few games in this HITLER like strat .. and well died off soon after .. Sry.. just wanted to clear that point up.
.. Who's PC is this again? If we let them all have their way?

There can be no HITLERS here .. including me :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232220 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:53:00 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231619 GeekNJ : I posted and you can come over my house. The only Apple product I've ever owned is an iPod. I'm not a fan and have convinced multiple family members to get a PC and not a Mac if they are going to ask for help and even had my brother in law switch to a PC when I refused to help him with his Mac. I'm not a fan, an evangelist, nor do I dislike the company.

So your comment doesn't seem accurate at least for my opinion on this discussion.

Seems to be a very common assumption here in the forums...
a) If you bash a company, you obviously are an employee of a competitor
b) If you don't disagree with those that bash the company, you are a shill for the company
c) If you don't disagree with Microsoft, Apple, etc you are somehow an evangelist for that company

The above are typically whipped out by someone when they don't actually have something on topic to offer in the discussion. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231619 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:04:31 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231587 RadioDoc : You're up against religious fervor, with the evangelists madly pressing on with the conversion process. Until you testify that nothing is wrong, and that Apple is in fact saving your iSoul by making sure you have all of the necessary worship iCons handy for the daily bow towards Cupertino, you will continue to be hounded by their field forces. Their arguments have as little to do with best practices, consumer trust and proper procedure than Viagra ads have to do with knitting.

In fact, one could infer a direct correlation between the loudness of the defense and the severity of the offense.

As for me, I uninstalled the whole mess. Tired of Quicktime, iTunes, Safari and Apple in general.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231587 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:58:37 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228741 C DM :

said by Drunkula

:

I've always hated QuickTime and I'm beginning to hate Apple for taking such a low-handed technique that spyware uses. Sure it is possible to not install Safari, et. al. But an update should be an update, not a NEW install. :huh:

Seems simple enough, and yet there are those who will argue even with that. I'm sure no one minds even being offered quite likely an unrelated and worthless application, not to mention one that would make them volunerable: »Highly-critical flaws found in Safari for Windows -- after all, it's free, so it's no big deal, right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228741 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:38:00 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227271 Drunkula : I've always hated QuickTime and I'm beginning to hate Apple for taking such a low-handed technique that spyware uses. Sure it is possible to not install Safari, et. al. But an update should be an update, not a NEW install. :huh:
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There are 10 types of people that understand binary numbers. Those that do - and those that do not...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227271 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:43:26 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227209 Hangetsu :

Ah...geez...the Apple Updater IS the Apple installer. There are no two different things. They are one and the same. If you don't like the fact that Apple packages their installer/updater in ONE package and calls it Apple Updater then I suggest you get rid of your Ipod and then you won't need ITunes. I don't think anyone in this thread who is complaining is willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Actually, between this issue and their late support for Vista BSOD issues when it first came out... Once my iPod is no longer supported or working, it won't be replaced with another iPod. A Zune or other MP3 player will work just fine alongside Amazon.com's MP3 site.

I'm not about to throw away $300, but they just lost me as a repeat customer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227209 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:24:25 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227032 GeekNJ :

said by AB

:

But normally, someone who considers something 'no issue' doesn't take such great pains and efforts to enlighten those of us silly and foolish enough to believe otherwise.
If we didn't catch your drift after the first couple of posts, you'd likely have moved on-- or at least most people would.
So why are you so intent on making sure we know how much of a 'non-issue' this is, is what I'm kind of wondering.

I think I answered that above, but so you aren't confused, here it is again:

And you continue to constantly post that I lack the grasp of the issue. I don't lack any grasp whatsoever of the issue. I completely, 100%, without a doubt, understand exactly what was done by Apple. I don't agree with your concern for what was done. I'm not sure how disagreeing with your opinion has anything to do with not understanding the topic of discussion which I have from when I first saw it come up on my screen when I launched iTunes.
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Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227032 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:12:19 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227027 GeekNJ :

said by AB

said by GeekNJ

:

So the number of posts in a thread is proportional to the lack of understanding of the issue? Ah, a new theory emerges.

Where did I say that? You quoted what I said, and I don't see that there.
Your seeming lack of the grasp of the issue is not necessarily directly related to your number of posts in this thread, no.

The auto quote cut off the full quote. Here's is the full quote.

said by AB

said by GeekNJ

said by AB

:

How on Earth you can continue to completely miss the point of what this is all about is beyond me.

I'm not missing the point at all. I just don't consider it an issue on any level.

For someone who considers it 'no issue', you sure have made a lot of posts in this thread.

You are commenting on my number of posts and how I miss the point (which I don't).

And you continue to constantly post that I lack the grasp of the issue. I don't lack any grasp whatsoever of the issue. I completely, 100%, without a doubt, understand exactly what was done by Apple. I don't agree with your concern for what was done. I'm not sure how disagreeing with your opinion has anything to do with not understanding the topic of discussion which I have from when I first saw it come up on my screen when I launched iTunes.
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Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227027 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:10:18 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226830 C DM :

said by Mele20

said by C DM

:

Not to mention the fact that an installer containing another application within it is quite different than an updater containing another application within it, even if they are pre-selected in both cases--that's not to say that it's that much more "ethical" or "right", but it is different nonetheless (and in the case of an updater much more out of place an inappropriate).

iPod...iTunes? Never used either one. Where's my money?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226830 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:55:23 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226823 Mele20 :

said by C DM

Ah...geez...the Apple Updater IS the Apple installer. There are no two different things. They are one and the same. If you don't like the fact that Apple packages their installer/updater in ONE package and calls it Apple Updater then I suggest you get rid of your Ipod and then you won't need ITunes. I don't think anyone in this thread who is complaining is willing to put their money where their mouth is. :p
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226823 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:50:38 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226604 C DM :

said by beerbum

:

add Adobe to the list.. this is the default when installing the latest version of Shockwave..

[att=1]

I don't see people complaining about the Norton install being pre-selected for you.. I wonder how many people will blindly click Next> .

There are complaints about that in a thread for that, not really here, since this isn't the thread for Adobe. Not to mention the fact that an installer containing another application within it is quite different than an updater containing another application within it, even if they are pre-selected in both cases--that's not to say that it's that much more "ethical" or "right", but it is different nonetheless (and in the case of an updater much more out of place an inappropriate).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226604 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:30:11 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226404 AB :

said by GeekNJ

said by AB

:

For someone who considers it 'no issue', you sure have made a lot of posts in this thread.

So the number of posts in a thread is proportional to the lack of understanding of the issue? Ah, a new theory emerges.

Where did I say that? You quoted what I said, and I don't see that there.
Your seeming lack of the grasp of the issue is not necessarily directly related to your number of posts in this thread, no. But see below:

And I think it is a pretty illogical conclusion to now try and relate not having an issue with what Apple is doing at the moment as not challenging those that do. They are about as related as shaving cream and fenders.

Whatever. Suit yourself.
But normally, someone who considers something 'no issue' doesn't take such great pains and efforts to enlighten those of us silly and foolish enough to believe otherwise.
If we didn't catch your drift after the first couple of posts, you'd likely have moved on-- or at least most people would.
So why are you so intent on making sure we know how much of a 'non-issue' this is, is what I'm kind of wondering.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226404 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:15:09 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226190 Hangetsu :

Apple didn't try to SNEAK Safari on me. Don't speak for everyone. Instead, Apple tried to "sneak" those absolutely horrible, obscene ITunes shit and Quicktime crap on me. Gee. I should be furious! Why Apple is the most horrible company that has ever existed. They thought I wanted that crap ITunes with the garbage music it offers. UGH. Why would I want THAT? To add insult to injury, Apple also tried to install that crappy Quicktime Player that tries to take over my computer. Why, the first thing I do with a new computer is remove Quicktime and here's Apple trying to ram both these horrible applications down my throat when all I was doing was trying to update my Safari....GEEEz....bad Apple, bad Apple....

Of course, I can't read so I didn't understand that all I needed to do to just get my SAFARI UPDATE was to uncheck some boxes....nah....I just had a knee jerk reaction and had to spew my anger at this insane "power grab" all over the internet thus showing everyone how illiterate I am.,

Ahh, so your point is the fine print should be read before new software installs occur? I heard Sony may have a job for you in their Music CD Department... ;-)

They used their updater product, installed to (ta da!) update existing Apple products on a user's machine, to install new products. Beyond that bit of somewhat unethical behavior, there are plenty of people who only have Apple for their iPod - Who are not going to question when their machine elects to run an update.

If they want to do this, then they should modify their updater with the option to "opt in" to additional downloads as they are available. This wasn't the way to do it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226190 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:17:12 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226175 mikenolan7 : AB sorry, I don't think that spyware advertised as anti-spyware is acceptable, and I don't think that installing new software as part of an update is acceptable (unless it is opt in). I was being sarcastic and it was a stupid post on my part.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226175 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:13:51 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226122 beerbum : add Adobe to the list.. this is the default when installing the latest version of Shockwave..

[att=1]

I don't see people complaining about the Norton install being pre-selected for you.. I wonder how many people will blindly click Next> .

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226122 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:04:03 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225711 GeekNJ :

said by AB

:

For someone who considers it 'no issue', you sure have made a lot of posts in this thread.

So the number of posts in a thread is proportional to the lack of understanding of the issue? Ah, a new theory emerges.

And I think it is a pretty illogical conclusion to now try and relate not having an issue with what Apple is doing at the moment as not challenging those that do. They are about as related as shaving cream and fenders.
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Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225711 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:53:31 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225680 AB :

said by GeekNJ

said by AB

:

How on Earth you can continue to completely miss the point of what this is all about is beyond me.

I'm not missing the point at all. I just don't consider it an issue on any level.

For someone who considers it 'no issue', you sure have made a lot of posts in this thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225680 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:45:45 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225647 GeekNJ :

said by AB

:

How on Earth you can continue to completely miss the point of what this is all about is beyond me.

I'm not missing the point at all. I just don't consider it an issue on any level.
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Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225647 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:55 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225479 AB :

said by GeekNJ

said by fatness

:

I'd say it's more like picking up a new can of your favorite shaving cream and attached to it is a fender for a Honda. So what if it's free? You want shaving cream.

A web browser and an automobile fender aren't the same? Wow, go figure.

How on Earth you can continue to completely miss the point of what this is all about is beyond me.
But whatever. Have fun.

*Edit- relevance]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225479 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:08:59 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225218 Subaru : I don't mind Itunes since I use that with my ipod]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225218 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:23:57 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225116 Mele20 : Safari has two problems: one I cannot choose my visited/unvisited link colors and blue is ugly (that is the default color). The more serious problem is Safari sucks very badly as far as cookie handling. Other than these two things (cookie handling being the major problem) I would be using Safari all the time instead of Firefox. Why? Because Safari is gorgeous to look at. I can read tiny font very easily on Safari! I have trouble reading LARGE fonts on IE, Firefox and Opera. I was stunned when I installed Safari and could see a gigantic difference in the quality of text on a web page. Safari is OPTIMIZED for flat panel LCD's. Microsoft may claim that ClearText optimizes webpages on Windows for LCD monitors but the difference between what Microsoft's application does and Safari does is nothing short of astounding. I don't have a cheap, crappy monitor either. It is not a new LCD but it was ranked by PCWorld tests and Consumer Reports tests as the best flat panel LCD 19" monitor the year I bought it.

Ever since I installed Safari, I've been thinking what it must be like to have Safari on an Apple computer. If the difference in quality of readability of a web page using Safari on Windows is so amazing...gee...I suppose I would be blown away by Safari on an Apple computer.

One other thing about Safari. It is the only browser that doesn't give me such total distortion of the pages at castlecops.com that I can actually now go to that site and read there. I have been unable on Fx, IE and Opera even with its "fit to page" to read for months now at castlecops or be able to post. I see everything double and triple there. It is weird but happens on all browsers on various machines. Safari though shows Castlecops perfectly. That is a blessing because I use Sidki's filters for the Proxomitron and I need to be able to read his forum.

So, what one person thinks is junk another may find to be wonderful.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225116 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:05:04 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225007 Mele20 :

said by Hangetsu

:

Whether or not you think its correct for an updater to install new software, I think Apple made a horrible PR mistake trying to sneak its browser in as it did. At the least, they better hope this release isn't as buggy as its initial Windows release.

Apple didn't try to SNEAK Safari on me. Don't speak for everyone. Instead, Apple tried to "sneak" those absolutely horrible, obscene ITunes shit and Quicktime crap on me. Gee. I should be furious! Why Apple is the most horrible company that has ever existed. They thought I wanted that crap ITunes with the garbage music it offers. UGH. Why would I want THAT? :mad: To add insult to injury, Apple also tried to install that crappy Quicktime Player that tries to take over my computer. Why, the first thing I do with a new computer is remove Quicktime and here's Apple trying to ram both these horrible applications down my throat when all I was doing was trying to update my Safari....GEEEz....bad Apple, bad Apple....

Of course, I can't read so I didn't understand that all I needed to do to just get my SAFARI UPDATE was to uncheck some boxes....nah....I just had a knee jerk reaction and had to spew my anger at this insane "power grab" all over the internet thus showing everyone how illiterate I am. :D :p
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225007 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:43:01 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224540 GeekNJ : Would this forum have a problem - I think yes. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224540 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:22:00 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224302 skyroket : I had never tried it, either, so before I came in here with fists flying, I installed it. I can tell you that it is a real piece of shit compared to IE and FF. Pretend you're using iTunes to browse the web...that's about what it's like.

If it was a good piece of software, would this thread complaining about its existence in the Apple Software Updater exist at all?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224302 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:37:35 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224210 GeekNJ :

said by fatness

:

I'd say it's more like picking up a new can of your favorite shaving cream and attached to it is a fender for a Honda. So what if it's free? You want shaving cream.

I feel the pair of products I used in my analogy was a much more accurate representation of the relationship of the iTunes PC based music platform and the Safari web browser then your product pair.

Never tried Safari so maybe it's like a Honda fender but I'm guessing it isn't.
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Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224210 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:25:17 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224117 grumpi :

said by fatness

:

I'd say it's more like picking up a new can of your favorite shaving cream and attached to it is a fender for a Honda. So what if it's free? You want shaving cream.

Precisely!
:)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224117 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:08:22 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20223631 Subaru : Just got this on this windows PC at work with Safari.. I really don't care for the PC version.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20223631 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:46:33 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222946 skyroket : Oh yes the sudden realization that you're being fucked over by a bunch of pirates installing your OS for free. That would make me inclined to put a new version of WGA on - but that doesn't make it right to do, you're right.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222946 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:58:24 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222892 jmorlan :

said by skyroket

:

I'm still waiting for the person who says MS installs new software using Windows Update... dotnet Framework 1, 2, and 3 are perfect examples of how they go in "Optional Software Updates" just like Safari should've.

I can think of two cases where MS came close. The worst was when they included a new version of WGA as a "critical" security update. It clearly wasn't that. This update ignored previous entries to ignore and installed it anyway. At least that's the way I remember it. I could be wrong.

Another that had a lot of folks upset was an automatic update of "Windows Update" itself. This was apparently sent out and installed, even if you had Windows Update set to download and save updates for later installation. It didn't wait, it just installed. Again, this is from memory and I could be wrong.

However, in the latter case, it was clear that the update was for a product that was already installed. But it ignored user preferences in how updates were to be installed and pushed it against the users' wishes.

But in the former, it installed fresh a product that many users had previously removed and had to remove again after it was pushed as a critical security update.

So I would say, MS was probably guilty at least once.
--
If America has an official philosophy, it surely includes the belief in individualism, competition, private property, democracy, freedom, and a deep faith in education. This social philosophy is called "liberalism." GKM (1936)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222892 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:52:06 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222734 skyroket :

said by Hangetsu

:

I certainly hope the people suggesting its OK for new software to be added within an updater have never lambasted Microsoft for IE updates that reset Microsoft's browser back to the default. That would be a wee bit hypocritical.

I'm not too sure I've experienced this. The setup for IE7 was kinda lame (why can't they just import the crap from IE6, and make up some default settings for the new features?), but I don't think that's what you're talking about. That would be bad of MS to do that, yes...

I'm still waiting for the person who says MS installs new software using Windows Update... dotnet Framework 1, 2, and 3 are perfect examples of how they go in "Optional Software Updates" just like Safari should've.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222734 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:28:31 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222694 Hangetsu : I certainly hope the people suggesting its OK for new software to be added within an updater have never lambasted Microsoft for IE updates that reset Microsoft's browser back to the default. That would be a wee bit hypocritical.

Whether or not you think its correct for an updater to install new software, I think Apple made a horrible PR mistake trying to sneak its browser in as it did. At the least, they better hope this release isn't as buggy as its initial Windows release.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222694 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:22:47 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222657 C DM :

said by GeekNJ

said by C DM

:

6 pages later, where this was constantly being pointed out, we are only figuring this out? If the fruit sign says oranges, I don't expect apples, despite the fact that they are also fruits and pretty close in nutrition and the pleasure I might get from eating them.

Alright, my point has been made quite well here, and many others have discussed that very point very well as well, rather than concentrating on other irrelevant parts of it. I'm going to leave it at that instead of continuing a repetitive and moot discussion just for fun and pleasure of someone else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222657 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:17:16 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222614 mikenolan7 : Edit: removed due to uncalled for sarcasm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222614 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:09:35 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222579 ptrowski :

said by C DM

said by Zyniker

:

Some means of "opting out"? Try unchecking perhaps?
I think putting the option clearly on your screen and forcing you to click through the install is a pretty good 'opt out'... Anyway, if you don't have the time to read what you are accepting...then you have no right to complain about what happens to your computer. People who just click through installs are the same people that wind up with adware/spyware/viruses because they just clicked "Next".

That's not the point. The point is that something like this doesn't belong in an application that exists to update existing installed applications.

Exactly my thoughts Comrade. I don't have Safari installed on my machine, I have zero use for it. I have iTunes and Quicktime (unfortunetly) installed. I expect an "updater" to do what it is supposed to do-update installed software.

When I download something new ie Yahoo Messenger etc I have to uncheck all the extra installs for search bars. I don't mind that as I am choosing to download that software so I view that as something different.

If I run the updater for my TuneUp Utilities software let's say, I expect to get updates for the product-NOT updates plus trials of other products "opted in" already by being checked. Sometimes I am running an update in the morning while getting dressed and trying to get my 5 year old out the door. I would have been ticked if I ran the iTunes updater then and had Safari bundled in.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222579 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:03:58 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222577 skyroket :

said by GeekNJ

:

It's more like going to the fruit stand, picking up a bag of apples that cost $1 (because I couldn't say it was free like the Apple software) and attached to that $1 bag of apples is a bag containing oranges. You are still getting your apples that you "paid for" and if you don't pull off the attached bag, which you can easily do, you get the oranges.

I don't have room on my bike for a bag of free oranges, and it's such a pain in the ass to find a dumpster for them (uninstall). Why can't I just have the option to "opt in" for a free bag of oranges, instead of have to "opt out" manually, saying I'd rather not have the bag of oranges. If I'm in a hurry, I just get the bag of crap and be on my way, not realizing there are some oranges there, too... so I'm off balance and crash into a Volvo in my confusion.

A sign that says "Free bag of oranges with purchase of bag of apples" would be awesome... that is equivalent of Safari being available for download, but NOT CHECKMARKED.

"Hey, cool... Apple has a new update for some Apple browser I've never heard of. I'm going to try it!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222577 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:03:39 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222555 GeekNJ :

said by C DM

It isn't doing one vs the other. I'm not sure why you think it is apples vs oranges. I don't see it like that at all.

It's more like going to the fruit stand, picking up a bag of apples that cost $1 (because I couldn't say it was free like the Apple software) and attached to that $1 bag of apples is a bag containing oranges. You are still getting your apples that you "paid for" and if you don't pull off the attached bag, which you can easily do, you get the oranges.

Using your repetitive analogy, I'd grab a bag of apples and it would contain a bag of oranges. That's not even close to the same thing as we're experiencing with the addition of another product being listing in existing software already installed and running on your machine.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222555 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:01:02 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222524 skyroket : My first thought was, "What's different about this than the crap Java pulls, installing Yahoo Toolbar or Google Toolbar?" We're all too familiar with unchecking the box for Google Toolbar and Google Desktop on new applications, so what's the big fuss over Safari?

Then I realized the difference between me installing new software and being in "Installation Mode" so to speak, paying attention to what I'm doing - and when I'm getting popup alerts for updated software.

First of all, I'm not too keen on all the bullshit popping up at me saying there's updates to begin with. Adobe pisses me off the most, but they're not the only ones. I check the box for "Do not check for updates anymore" but then all I get is a Cancel button, so I feel like it didn't take my checkbox. Secondly, I don't like the Apple software. I scowl at people who imbed shit in their pages using Quicktime - but I just _have_ to see it...so I install Quicktime. It puts other shit in my startup, and some qttask awesome program. I temporarily put iTunes on my computer to help my girlfriend's iPod then I uninstalled iTunes, not realizing it installed Apple Software updater. Anyways, I really don't appreciate this Apple update because it claims to be an updater, so I would typically just say "OK you need some updates good job go away now" and just install it all.

This is ruining the environment in the same way that Weatherbug used to be a good program, but now it's a fucking greedy piece of shit so only the naive use it.

I have removed all Apple products from my computer and don't plan on reinstalling Quicktime (or maybe go to www.oldversion.com and get one that isn't hella gay) since this Safari deal. It just seems too shady, and they're not really treating me nicely. If they want to get people to use Safari, try advertising or promoting it normally. That's why I use Firefox.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222524 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:55:11 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222517 C DM :

said by GeekNJ

said by C DM

:

The point though is this, and this is something that even you agree: and updater includes installations that have nothing to do with updates (since there's nothing to update for those applications if they are not installed). So, little deal or big deal, the point is that it's not what it's supposed to do, and even you admitted it does it.

Isn't that the whole point? 6 pages later, where this was constantly being pointed out, we are only figuring this out? If the fruit sign says oranges, I don't expect apples, despite the fact that they are also fruits and pretty close in nutrition and the pleasure I might get from eating them. Let's stop trying to beat around the bush concentrating on irrelevant things like personal responsibility or how simple it is to uncheck something--the point is that it doesn't belong there to begin with, nothing more nothing less (talking about other aspects of it all is plainly avoiding the actual issue, on purpose or not, and therefore is moot).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222517 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:54:03 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222441 EGeezer : Apparently some in the press don't take kindly to Apple's little program..

See »blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=405&tag=nl.e539

He does have some good points, and it's a good read. His bulleted summary points are spot on and would be good practice for the entire software/OS industry.

I think Microsoft is a bit assumptive and pushy on stuff like Silverlight and WGA myself, and don't always agree on what they call "critical". But at least I have a nice big detailed list in my Microsoft update window where I can get more detailed info on each download. Once I put the unwanted application in hidden updates, I'm not bugged about it.

I think it's quite amusing that the same people (even Microsoft users) who whine about evil Microsoft and their updates blithely accept Apple's assumptive practices. :D
--
Mayors of New York come from nowhere and go nowhere.
Wallace Sayre (apparently, so do governors... )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222441 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:40:35 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222394 fatness :

said by Unknown_Poster :

As said in the movie "Fargo"-- I didn't order the fucking undercoating, and I don't want the fucking undercoating.

"Seeing as it's special circumstances and all, he says I can knock a hundred dollars off that Trucoat."
--
Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222394 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:30:46 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222384 fatness : I'd say it's more like picking up a new can of your favorite shaving cream and attached to it is a fender for a Honda. So what if it's free? You want shaving cream.
--
Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222384 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:29:06 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222317 GeekNJ :

said by Unknown_Poster :

How about if the grocery or other retail stores start employing someone to roam around the store and toss items they'd like to sell into your shopping basket, and they do so without asking you and could care less whether or not you're looking when they do it-- in fact actually prefer that you're not-- and it's your job to make sure to remove those items before they get rung up at the checkout counter, otherwise-- tough luck for you.

It's more like you're picking up a new can of your favorite shaving cream you always purchase at the store and attached to it is a new razor at no additional cost.

Do you go on a forum or contact the manufacturer and critize them for attaching a free razor, which you didn't want in the first place, to your can of shaving cream you always buy?

Or are you skilled enough to toss away the razor that you didn't want in the first place?

Or do you feel that you are now obligated to take the razor and use it, replacing your existing razor because it was forced upon you by the damn shaving company who is in bed with the razor company (same company usually) as some sort of facial conspiracy?
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222317 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:14:43 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222080 anon : Does anyone have a link to where I can get the English version of the last couple of pages of this thread? Thanks.

And all of you who think it's no biggie that any software manufacturer wants to toss in a couple of extras that you well may not want, hoping that you're not paying close enough attention to uncheck the boxes, and that it's your job to make sure unwanted add-ons are unchecked, even though by rights those boxes have no business existing there to begin with for a person to even have to worry about unchecking--

How about if the grocery or other retail stores start employing someone to roam around the store and toss items they'd like to sell into your shopping basket, and they do so without asking you and could care less whether or not you're looking when they do it-- in fact actually prefer that you're not-- and it's your job to make sure to remove those items before they get rung up at the checkout counter, otherwise-- tough luck for you.
Because you're an 'idiot' for not making sure the store employee wasn't tossing unwanted items into your shopping cart while you shopped, and you didn't "uncheck" those items from your cart prior to going through the cashier line.
And if you don't like it once you get home and discover this unwanted stuff in your bags, then you're just whining.

Would any of you have a problem with that? Yes, maybe, no?

Because I sure as hell would.
Or would I be a 'whiner', 'complainer', and 'idiot' because I didn't care for that tactic?

As said in the movie "Fargo"-- I didn't order the fucking undercoating, and I don't want the fucking undercoating.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222080 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:21:28 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222001 javaMan : I don't have anything Apple so I don't know what an "Apple Updater" is. However, if it is what its name implies, it is a generic updater for all Apple software. To me then, it would seem reasonable that it would offer updates/installations for anything Apple related, whether the software was present on a machine or not. Now, this may be a re-engineering of how the the updater has worked in the past but I don't think it is out of the ordinary.

What does seem problematic is if is offers a combined "update" for software that is not installed i.e. the iTunes/Quicktime update. If I only had Quicktime installed I wouldn't want to install iTunes in order get an update. But perhaps that is a programming oversight?
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222001 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:06:11 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221797 geoffinak3 : This is just silly. First, there are check marks next to the software you want to download and if you do not want the software, you simply uncheck it. Is that difficult.

Plus it's the Software Updater, tells you software is available. It's not the only way to get it and it does not become an installer until you tell it too.

Software Update in fact it has a hyperlink that takes you directly to the download items themselves, and gives you complete information about the download, and you can then download the software directly from the web page »www.apple.com/quicktime/download/ and install it manually. Or return to Software Update and use that route.

So you have a multitude of options, people are just ranting over nothing.

No different then the software that comes from Microsoft saying easy install, whatever that contains, or custom install. The easy is always selected.

Simply removing the check or downloading manually and you get no Safari. So why is this sneaky, underhanded and making a mess of the internet.

If you would read, and are knowledgeable enough to download your own software, you would know that the best way to use software update, is to download 1 item at a time. Put a check next to that item. When finished run Software Update again and if you want to download the next item, put the check in the box. If not just quit.

In this case I would download iTunes and Quicktime first.

Then if I wanted to, I would check and download Safari.

How is this Apple trying to shove Safari down our throats every time a new iTunes or Quicktime update comes out. Simply because it's there. Oh my people are so funny. It's like computer 101.

You do not have to download Safari, which is free. To get QuickTime, which is free, or iTunes which is free.

Let all the whiners whine, Apple is here, their beating the pants off everyone and people better get used to it. If all the whiners spent more time developing such great software, maybe Fire fox would be a better web browser and the developer would not have to whine to get attention. Frankly I think Fire Fox stinks. Down loads every week, for people who do not have BB.
Get real, this country still has a BB gap. BTW you can go to any Apple store and they will update your computer for free.

Lets see, Microsoft 25,000 Viruses plus last year Mac ahh zero. What system do you feel safer on. Phishing filters, come on. How stupid do you have to be, I mean if you can't figure out who your giving your personal information too or if the site is real or not, better ask your 9 year old. He will know.

All you people who want to remove QuicKTime and iTunes, please, be my guest. You can use Microsoft's new music incarnation and wmv and limit yourself to that. Is that Microsoft I hear squealing in the background. Things getting a little stale a little built up on the code.

The nice thing is, if you don't like it , don't use it. You have choices.
Oh I thought these little games were over, a bit different when your looking at a company who does something and everyone copies it, compared to a company who try's to copy everything it sees and falls on it's face. Guess Steve won't be lending any copies of Mac OS X to Bill, oh that's right, Mac OSX is open source.
This is so funny to read people upset at Apple, or afraid is more like it. How life turns full circle.
G]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221797 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:18:36 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221362 GeekNJ : I'm sorry but taking responsibility for your own actions is not acceptable. You need to rely on others to make certain you have no responsibility in any situation so there is always someone to blame. ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221362 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:22:00 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221351 moopenguin32 : I couldn't believe when I saw Safari as an option on the Apple Updater. However, it didn't do any harm to me as I always read before I install anything and I just unchecked the box. However, I see how this can be an annoyance for the majority of computer users that do not read before they click. While I do not agree with Apple on doing this since it is an updater rather than an installer, perhaps it will teach some people to read before they click.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221351 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:18:26 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221307 jmorlan : Here's one possible solution. At least until the next update installs the updater again.

Is bundling Safari into this "updater" really any different from bundling "iTunes" with QuickTime? It is part of a trend.

And is it really all that different from what MS has been doing for years...bundling a web browser and a media player with the operating system? It is part of a trend. I'd love to have Windows XP without Internet Explorer, but I have yet to see it. Something like that was supposed to be available in Europe as part of the antitrust settlement, but did it ever actually happen? I don't know.

Isn't this just kind of activity, an extension of a recent trend for application updates to install unwanted toolbars? It is part of a trend.

Like most, I don't want any extra crap to "enhance my user experience." But that seems to be the way the industry is going and has been going for some time.

Apple sneaking their browser onto PC systems is part of a long legacy of this kind of behavior on the part of software companies and I'm afraid that it's not going to get better any time soon.

It is part of a trend.
--
If America has an official philosophy, it surely includes the belief in individualism, competition, private property, democracy, freedom, and a deep faith in education. This social philosophy is called "liberalism." GKM (1936)

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221307 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:58:50 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221177 GeekNJ :

said by C DM

So if the title bar on the window that comes up is the Apple Software Installer you'd be ok? You keep calling it an "updater". Why do you call it that - because it says "updater" in the title bar?

You focus on 1 point in all your posts - it's an updater and therefore should only update existing software.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221177 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:49:10 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221075 Mele20 :

said by m0d

:

also Mele .. WHAT PART of any post I made do you question .. ? .. I'll do my best to explain.. working back .. its this one .. isn't it?

"In order for your browser to display the following paragraph this site must download new software; please wait. Sorry, the requested codec was not found. Please upgrade your system."

Sry .. no one .. not even Apple .. can dictate to us all .. what we should or should not dl .. esp when that has a past in malware .. u see? LESS dictators .. more choice? :)

and I just know u agree with that too when you see what I was on about.. fine to disagree .. just in this case? I bet we agree.. if we talk about it .. but in no way would it to be create "disagreement" = "insult me" or purposely disrespect.. I don't see it that way at all

never would.. just some things "happened" and if i could clarify .. I doubt it ends in us "disagree"

Did you make up the "in order for your browser".....etc. to get your point across?

EDIT: I just reread my post and I think my comment came out wrong. It is fine with me if you made up that example... I 'm just trying to understand what you were trying to get across. We probably are not far apart in our opinions...but I still don't really understand that post.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221075 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:04:46 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221033 m0d : For us to agree to disagree is ok Mele.. and well that in any proper forum .. should be a right for all ..

.. also .. ppl should not "lose it" on each other ..u and I don't do that .. no matter what the disagreement.. now do we?

.. so consider that my vote of confidence in you and all you
have to say too ..

also Mele .. WHAT PART of any post I made do you question .. ? .. I'll do my best to explain.. working back .. its this one .. isn't it?

"In order for your browser to display the following paragraph this site must download new software; please wait. Sorry, the requested codec was not found. Please upgrade your system."

Sry .. no one .. not even Apple .. can dictate to us all .. what we should or should not dl .. esp when that has a past in malware .. u see? LESS dictators .. more choice? :)

and I just know u agree with that too when you see what I was on about.. fine to disagree .. just in this case? I bet we agree.. if we talk about it .. but in no way would it to be create "disagreement" = "insult me" or purposely disrespect.. I don't see it that way at all

never would.. just some things "happened" and if i could clarify .. I doubt it ends in us "disagree"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221033 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:13:02 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221024 m0d : For us to agree to disagree is ok Mele.. and well that in any proper forum .. should be a right for all ..

.. also .. ppl should not "lose it" on each other ..u and I don't do that .. no matter what the disagreement.. now do we?

.. so consider that my vote of confidence in you and all you
have to say too ..

also Mele .. WHAT PART of any post I made do you question .. ? .. I'll do my best to explain.. working back .. its this one .. isn't it?

""In order for your browser to display the following paragraph this site must download new software; please wait. Sorry, the requested codec was not found. Please upgrade your system."

Sry .. no one .. not even Apple .. can dictate to us all .. what we should or should not dl .. esp when that has a past in malware .. u see? LESS dictators .. more choice? :)

and I just know u agree with that too when you see what I was on about.. fine to disagree .. just in this case? I bet we agree.. if we talk about it .. but in no way would it to be create "disagreement" = "insult me" or purposely disrespect.. I don't see it that way at all

never would.. just some things "happened" and if i could clarify .. I doubt it ends in us "disagree"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221024 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:06:15 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221009 m0d : For us to agree to disagree is ok Mele.. and well that in any proper forum .. should be a right for all ..

.. also .. ppl should not "lose it" on each other ..u and I don't do that .. no matter what the disagreement.. now do we?

.. so consider that my vote of confidence in you and all you have to say too .. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221009 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:50:27 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221000 m0d : "I do respect you M0d and I think we can agree to disagree. "

.. Mele? that would be my ideal here.. that ppl had the freedom and respect .. to just do that.. :)

And of all here .. I could forgive you for that :)

Its not a crime.

.. and maybe .. I should not be forgive ppl I consider friends.. rather make my points more persuasive .. just hmm that required time.. but ill put it there .. for all to see.. at same time

Just Im not some dictator.. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20221000 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:38:15 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20220998 m0d : Sigh .. and why .. would anyone ever need to "PAY ATTENTION"?

.. unless deceptive practices were employed?

I am sry .. that was my "experience" with "APPLE and Qt" movies.. from day one.. was that wrong of me? I doubt it.. it got in startup and done things you don't agree too.. so

APPLE = bottom feeder .. from day one .. and I don't want to offend you personal Mele .. rather have a decent discussion on their PAST releases when it came to PC software!

I could give u msn any night and u can tell me what a n00b I am etc.. just hmm we don't do that.. In this case? I made a genuine point.. that crap is malware.. by same company made iThis .. iThat.. so hmm.. its not personal.. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20220998 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:36:30 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20220992 Mele20 : I do respect you M0d and I think we can agree to disagree. I would like to know what your second post was about though. Was it possibly a quote from somewhere? I could not make heads or tails of it. I don't really think you are "incoherent". ;) In fact, most of your posts I think are excellent (even when I disagree with your position) so I am particularly puzzled by that one.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20220992 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:29:48 EDT Re: Apple using iTunes update to auto-install Safari http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20220988 Mele20 : That and the post below are rather incoherent...especially the one below which makes no sense at all. I have no idea what you were trying to say in it. In this post, I gather you don't like Real Player. I don't know what Real Player has to do with what I said that set you off. I said that Rhapsody has better music selection than IPod. I didn't say anything about Real Player.

Much of your rant is incorrect anyway. Real Player (not Rhapsody player) from Real.com doesn't take over file associations or anything else on your computer as long as you PAY ATTENTION when installing it just as you should pay attention when installing/updating an application from Apple. I never had Real Player 10. I had 8,9 and 10.5 that I recall. I never saw any ads in Real Player. I use the Proxomitron. In fact, when Rhapsody first came out many years ago from Listen.com (they were not owned by Real back then) I had the Techn