 djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
 ·Verizon Wireless..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER
| What I don't quite get... quote:
Verizon obviously has ample capacity thanks to their FTTH network,
Isn't Verizon using off-the shelf MPEG-2 Motorola cable DVRs? The same ones the cable companies are using? Even CableCARD TiVos work on FiOS. While that "compatibility" is great, it also means Verizon must funnel their TV service to fit in the exact same spectrum range that cable uses. The only thing different is they don't need to allocate any space for internet usage, which is a very small chunk of that spectrum anyway.
I realize that FiOS has the potential to do and be much more, but given its current implementation, from a technical standpoint can someone explain why what Verizon is delivering is any better than Cable, given that they are pretty much sharing the same limitations with regards to their TV delivery?
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Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams. |
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| Streamed into the house they have the same capacity, but at the fiber terminal on the house they theoretically have unlimited capacity, in essence the ability to have 100 cable systems that can turn on or off based on channel number. In theory they could run their in home system with 10 or more full cables systems on each fiber, then dynamically switch between different full cable systems carried on the single fiber based on channel.
Although FIOS uses cable standards they aren't limited to what comes off the head end because the head end is on each customers home. They can deliver on the RG6 anything they want as they should with hacks even be able to dynamically change what's coming down the RG-6. The other cable companies are limited to what's comes off the node where they switch from fiber to copper, everyone connected to the node gets the same thing. FIOS doesn't have that limit and could in theory deliver a completely different cable system to every customer. |
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| reply to djrobx
said by djrobx: quote:
Verizon obviously has ample capacity thanks to their FTTH network,
Isn't Verizon using off-the shelf MPEG-2 Motorola cable DVRs? The same ones the cable companies are using? Even CableCARD TiVos work on FiOS. While that "compatibility" is great, it also means Verizon must funnel their TV service to fit in the exact same spectrum range that cable uses. The only thing different is they don't need to allocate any space for internet usage, which is a very small chunk of that spectrum anyway. I realize that FiOS has the potential to do and be much more, but given its current implementation, from a technical standpoint can someone explain why what Verizon is delivering is any better than Cable, given that they are pretty much sharing the same limitations with regards to their TV delivery? You are correct, Verizon FIOS TV is using standard Cable Television technology. It is the same as a standard 860 Mhz cable plant with one exception, data and voice are not carried within that 860 Mhz system. This does free up a few channels (depending on Node size) that provides some additional capacity. Cable 1Ghz systems can also do this...standard TV on 54-860 Mhz and data / voice about 860 Mhz....but there are very few 1 Ghz systems (statistically speaking) out there. Most are 860 Mhz and below. |
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| reply to djrobx
said by djrobx: quote:
Verizon obviously has ample capacity thanks to their FTTH network,
I realize that FiOS has the potential to do and be much more, but given its current implementation, from a technical standpoint can someone explain why what Verizon is delivering is any better than Cable, given that they are pretty much sharing the same limitations with regards to their TV delivery? Verizon is using IPTV for VOD, so that saves QAM channels that the cable companies use for VOD. Verizon is also in the process of shutting down it's limited set of 40 analog channels and replacing with digital QAM 256 channels. (Oregon and Western PA markets which started up in later 2007 are all digital). All of the analog channels were digitally simulcast from the start, so only people hooking up analog NTSC tuners ever used them. Yes, Verizon uses QAM-256 and Mpeg-2 for the live digital TV channels which is convenient for clear QAM tuners and HD Tivos. By the end of 2008, Verizon is supposed to have installed equipment to provide 135 QAM channels throughout the system. The Motorola STB and DVRs that have been issued from the start support 135 QAM channels (860 MHz system) and IP interface for VOD & Guide data.
With no legacy analog channels to hog bandwidth, 135 QAM channels is enough for > 150 full bandwidth HD channels and hundreds of SD channels. Verizon will be ramping up the IPTV part, so the future is probably a mix of QAM for the locals & most widely watched channels and IPTV for VOD & niche channels. |
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RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to djrobx
Verizon is evidently not raping the video before stuffing it into the pipe. These artifacts are introduced at the headend, and Comcast just plain doesn't give a crap how it looks. Verizon, evidently, takes some pride in video quality. |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | said by RadioDoc:Verizon is evidently not raping the video before stuffing it into the pipe. These artifacts are introduced at the headend, and Comcast just plain doesn't give a crap how it looks. Verizon, evidently, takes some pride in video quality. Pretty much sums it up IMHO.
I routinely have issues with the HD on my Comcast service. Of particular issue is Phillies games on Comcast SportsNet.
Issues include dropped frames, serious artifacts and pixelisation.
Any time I'm watching Comcast, whether it's SD or HD, and something explodes or catches fire, the distortion is unacceptable.
Especially since I enjoy watching things catch fire and explode in movies 
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc:Verizon is evidently not raping the video before stuffing it into the pipe. These artifacts are introduced at the headend, and Comcast just plain doesn't give a crap how it looks. Verizon, evidently, takes some pride in video quality. VZ also has the luxury of a new system and is not expected/required to provide 50 to 60 channels of analog service to subscribers. I am sure if you asked anyone at Comcast they would love to wake up to their installed base being on all-digital 1Ghz systems and not having to compromise on video quality to stay competitive until they can either a.) Get all the systems upgraded or b.) not having to provide analog service but neither one of those are going to happen overnight. |
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RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | I'm not giving Comcast any slack with this. They've shifted the analogs into the noisiest channel positions and if they can't figure out how to get clean HD to their customers then they should quit advertising it. The bottom line is doing it right and delivering what they advertise is incompatible with their bottom line.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to djrobx
From a technical point of view, it's this easy.
The ONT's on the side of the home are cheap now and scale to 1.2 ghz or at least that is the spec. before failure. Current cable co's are 860 , lucky if some are 1 gig.
Cable has data voice tv over that 860 mhz. Fios has just TV over 860 and capable of 1.2 ghz. The rest have their own dedicated spectrum on the fiber not on the cable.
VOD on Fios rides the ip side and uses it's own frequency on the network , not interfering with your cable. Fios is good also because it doesn't require you to change anything heavy to upgrade. If they choose to go mpeg4 it's as easy as changing the main feed compressor at Fios down link centers. And change the boxes on the user premises if a upgraded firmware couldn't be hacked to add mpeg4.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to jmallory
Bullshit.
VZ is trying to get digital to analog adapters made so that the digital channels will work on older tvs.
Comcast should take the same approach, either that or give free boxes to free up the spectrum.
I have a digital tuner in all my tvs , so I have no worries , but some folks just don't like to see that they rape us for cable boxes. And Verizon is not immune to that at this point.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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 kpfx
join:2005-10-28
San Antonio, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Digital/Analog converter? Comcast is already working on that.
The article below (found here on BBR) shows the RFP they've put out for a low-cost digital converter so they could go to a 100% digital plant without leaving out the millions of people still using their analog television tuners.
»Comcast's $35 Digital Conversion Dongle
Over the next year or two the analog channels will get scaled back and things move to a digital format (unencrypted QAM).... that will ultimately save them the most bandwidth. |
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kpfx
join:2005-10-28
San Antonio, TX Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to BosstonesOwn
Sadly MPEG4 is only a viable option with satellite and IPTV services (Uverse) where the provider has 100% control over their set-tops.
In order for MPEG4 to be deployed in the cable world (and this includes FIOS) it would first have to become a standard built into all the digital-ready television sets. That's a much more painful and drawn-out process than just requiring your users swapping out & upgrading their Satellite/IPTV boxes. |
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| reply to N3OGH
Thats why I drop Comcast and went with U-Verse, I got tired of the poor SD picture, The picture I have now Comcast can only dream of giving. I may only have 4 video streams and 1 HD, but the picture quality is well worth it
so is the cost $114.00 for 4 TVs 1 DVR, plus 6/1M Internet sure beats the $96.00 for Comcast digital Plus
Just my 2 cents |
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| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn:Fios is good also because it doesn't require you to change anything heavy to upgrade. If they choose to go mpeg4 it's as easy as changing the main feed compressor at Fios down link centers. And change the boxes on the user premises if a upgraded firmware couldn't be hacked to add mpeg4. From what I have read, the current Motorola QIP STB and DVRs provided by Verizon do not support mpeg-4. They will have to swap them all out to incorporate mpeq-4. Remember, Verizon started the TV service over 2.5 years ago and probably picked the STBs a year or two before that. Fios TV is now approaching or will soon be over 1 million subscribers. Verizon will run into the same legacy issues facing cable with the huge costs of replacing existing equipment that is only a few years old. Verizon has reportedly put out specs & asked for bids for a new generation of STBs, but those reportedly won't begin to be deployed until well into 2009. By then, Fios TV could have > 2 million subscribers. Figure an average of 2 (?) STB/DVRs per house, that is a lot of deployed STBs to replace at great expense.
No, mpeg-4 is some years off for Fios. But 135 QAM channels with no channel bandwidth used for analog, VOD or internet will give Verizon a lot of bandwidth for HD and SD channels. |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| Yeah , thats why I said they need to replace the boxes at the customers homes.
I have heard that there are unofficial patches to add mpeg4 to the 64xx series of moto boxes. But they fall flat on their face.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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| reply to kpfx
Must have missed that , bad geek I am I missed it.
These should be given out by comcast with a sub to basic cable.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | reply to lew_jean
I'm paying comcast $86/mo for expanded digital, one HD box and DVR.
I presently get my internet from Verizon DSL.....
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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Ztp1112
join:2005-03-18
Springfield, VA | reply to jmallory
what are you talking about THE ANALOG CHANNELS ARE ALL MANDATED BUY THE FRANCHISE verizon has analog channels not as many as the cable company because they chose not to get back to me in 2009 we we all are all digital
a analog channel takes up 6x as much space as a digital one |
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