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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue... in TekSavvy</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20223259</link>
<description></description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:21:56 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:21:56 EDT</lastBuildDate>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244039</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540809"><b>Name</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DrXenon <A HREF="/useremail/u/1432673"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>My Vonage VOIP is also throttled and is unusable during peak hours.</div>Better hope you never need your Vonage 911 service.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244039</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:51:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244014</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/835558"><b>matradley</b></A> : I have been trying to see if anyone found that the National Labour Union is pushing the CRTC on this issue - &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/03/28/tech-netneutrality.html" >www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008&middot;&middot;&middot;ity.html</A> .]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244014</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:45:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238987</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><b>iconfat</b></A> : I wasn't throttled yesterday.<br>I just tested it now, and I'm throttled.  I'm on the premium package in Etobicoke Ontario.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238987</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:33:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238919</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1195536"><b>TOPDAWG</b></A> : Well I've yet to have any issue with this yet so it's not in my area yet.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238919</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:22:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238537</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1353012"><b>pwnedrice</b></A> : uhhh...guys i think im dreaming...<br>but my speeds are above 50kb/s on uTorrent...did something happen??]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238537</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:22:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238465</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1432673"><b>DrXenon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Scrappy2 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1490536"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>so its only bt thats effected by throttling then? nothing else in any way shape or form?<br> </div>My Vonage VOIP is also throttled and is unusable during peak hours.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238465</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:10:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238364</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540613"><b>patyeon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Scrappy2 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1490536"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>so its only bt thats effected by throttling then? nothing else in any way shape or form?<br> </div>No, anything encrypted is also throttled. That is very important, especially to those of us who rely on encrypted connections to be able to connect to other computers we own/administrate/work with.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20238364</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:54:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237822</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1471971"><b>DSL_Ricer</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Grounded <A HREF="/useremail/u/1511627"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> Around 5:00 AM I was finishing up a couple of extremely well-seeded files @510 - 520k download.  When the connection returned I was maxing out at 440 <i>precisely</i>.  It's as if someone has imposed a totally reasonable cap.  I tested several times today (up to 4:30, of course,) and always plateaued at 440k.  It's far from catastrophic, but kinda weird.  Could this be an inadvertent effect of the upgrade?  <br> </div>Have you actually checked the modem sync speed? It's quite possible that your profile was lowered.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237822</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:36:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237437</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1511627"><b>Grounded</b></A> : First let me make it clear: I know the difference between the Bell throttling and the problem I'm about to describe.  I have been experiencing the Bell throttling since it first occurred on Thursday.  This is something different though I'd still gladly blame it on Bell.<br><br>Here goes:<br><br>As of the network upgrade last night my max download has dropped significantly.  Though I rarely max out torrent speeds, this week has has been an exception - taking advantage of the hours we're given.  ;)  Around 5:00 AM I was finishing up a couple of extremely well-seeded files @510 - 520k download.  When the connection returned I was maxing out at 440 <i>precisely</i>.  It's as if someone has imposed a totally reasonable cap.  I tested several times today (up to 4:30, of course,) and always plateaued at 440k.  It's far from catastrophic, but kinda weird.  Could this be an inadvertent effect of the upgrade?  <br><br>And yep, I did try rebooting, resetting my modem, etc.  It's consistent.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237437</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:43:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235795</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : If you were throttled, and more than BT is affected, you would be seeing no more than 60KB/s. The mere fact you're seeing faster speeds means that your problems are unrelated.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235795</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:33:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235664</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1490536"><b>Scrappy2</b></A> : so its only bt thats effected by throttling then? nothing else in any way shape or form?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235664</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:16:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235595</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/978831"><b>bexol</b></A> : "Would the fecal matter impact the rotary oscillator?"<br><br>hahah that's a good one ... and the answer is yes. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235595</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:07:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235555</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : Scrappy2: Those issues are unrelated to throttling.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235555</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:02:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235448</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1490536"><b>Scrappy2</b></A> : I personally don't use torrents that often but i do use usenet and surf webpages.Both these have been effected the last week or so.<br>My speeds on usenet have fallen from 600kb/s to 200kb/s <br>(i can barely break 200kb/s)<br>webpages now time out don't load all the time now if even with all dnlding progs off.<br>I've rebooted everything all three comps and have the same outcome.<br> ps I should have also said that bt has slowed down to to a crawl ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235448</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:48:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234460</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1533109"><b>warren</b></A> : Ok, what about RDP?  Since it's "encrypted", it's throttled aswell, which makes it unusable.<br><br>This isn't "just" throttling p2p.  They seem to be throttling any encrypted traffic.  VPN's would be another example.  If I need to work from home, and in order to do that, I need to VPN in.  They're throttling my connection to 30k/s because they "ASS-U-ME" I'm using encryption to bypass p2p blocks, when infact, I'm using it to secure a connection to my work.<br><br>Their system is faulty, and they shouldn't be throttling wholesalers anyway.  It's not their data.  As I've said before, this should be grounds for them to lose their Common Carrier status, and then they can have fun with the flood of lawsuits, since they appear to want to police their network.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234460</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:26:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234140</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1465357"><b>hockeynomad</b></A> : so run your torrents overnight.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234140</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:42:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234120</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1352959"><b>Trisomy21</b></A> :  <IMG SRC="http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u150/Trisomy21_photo/TSI.jpg"> <br><br>The new TSI logo, I actually made it quite a while back :D]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20234120</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:39:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233890</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508357"><b>nanook</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>so they choke off 50% of the feed to Scarboro</div>Actually in Bell's case they are "choking off the feed" by 90% to 95%. (From the normal 300+kB/s down to 30kB/s.) ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233890</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:06:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233767</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by aaannon :</small><br><br>First when I joined TSI I was told that TSI won't throttle the line. My idea was TSI just rent the infrastructure or copper wire. Now it turns out that it's not what it is.<br><br>I guess the only difference right now between Bell and TSI is price and cap. Nothing else.<br> </div>That's exactly what it is.  TSI rents the infratructure and copper.  That's whats foul about this - Bell has unilaterally altered the agreement about what TSI rents from them.  Look at this from another angle...you can buy natural gas for your home from several suppliers out there.  All the suppliers use Enbridge's network of gas distribution lines.  Now, after years of operating this way, Enbridge decides that everyone in Scarboro uses too much gas between 5 pm and 2 am in the winter months, so they choke off 50% of the feed to Scarboro.<br><br>Would the fecal matter impact the rotary oscillator?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233767</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:44:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233530</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1538279"><b>cacruden</b></A> : If I upgrade to the ADSL ($99/month) line and then Bell has to remove the shaping from the lines - I wonder if I can sue them since the only reason I would get it is to solve a problem they created (including installation cost of course).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233530</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:51:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233493</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Thanks Rocky, for the update, and thanks for the earlier advice on dsl modems...I have a lovely $20 used 2wire here that works better than my $60 ovislink ever did, even when new. <br><br>I've been a big fan & customer of teksavvy for over a year now, but was only able to get the actual 5M service from you guys at the end of Feb after I moved from a lousy area. So I noticed a big jump in download speeds 4 weeks ago, and couldn't understand why recent downloads started fast, and then slowed to a crawl, similar to the way my old rogers account behaved. Until I read Prof. Geist's blog last night about this issue, I'd been blaming the seeds/leechers, thinking it was fast only at first while I was catching up to what was available...<br><br>This has got to be the basis of a class-action suit I think, against Bell AND Rogers, with expert, well-respected companies like teksavvy in the lead. It is anti-competitive, false advertising (they advertise 5M; actively ensure we don't get it), etc. Yes, it might take a year, two years, or more, but leaving it to the pro-business lawmakers in Canada will ensure that better laws preventing throttling never get passed.<br><br>Sorry corporate-liars: I download-and-compile a fair amount because I rebuild computers destined for the landfill, and give them to the poor...so that means a lot of LEGAL downloading of Linux and FOSS applications.<br><br>Perhaps we should be looking at mesh-type central nodes for Internet and asterisk-based phone services? <br><br>I'm with you, Rocky!!! <br><br>Loyal customer<br><br>P.S. When I moved, Bell almost prevented me from taking my Teksavvy account with me; before I moved I was proud NOT to have any Bell account and used a dry-loop, for phone service through an asterisk-based provider. Now I had to get a Bell landline phone in order to enable a wet-loop dsl service, as Bell tried to tell me and Teksavvy that dsl simply wasn't available here in a well-established Toronto neighbourhood.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233493</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:44:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233249</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1440434"><b>chrish</b></A> : Look like Rocky made it to the register (theregister.com)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233249</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:27:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: reasons to get people off BELL ANYWAYS</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233246</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by chronoss2008 :</small><br><br>A) better techsupport<br>B) every peep you get signed up give em your ID and name and you get 1$/month<br>C) in time i know rocky and the other 3rd party ISPS will and are building there own networks.<br>D) they offer phone service in my area so i calculated what me leaving bell has cost BELL<br>1160$ /month<br>or 13,920$<br>17 people to teksavvy<br>including myself <br>and me dropping everything bell as well as my father.<br> </div>Why are you dropping your father?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233246</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:26:47 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: reasons to get people off BELL ANYWAYS</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233220</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/700598"><b>Pepsi90919</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  matradley <A HREF="/useremail/u/835558"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I will be leaving Bell as soon as my contract is up in June - then it is off to Teksavvy. Luckily, I get to start doing the cancellation process in May (30 days prior to the end of contract) so that I can leave Bell without a charge. :)<br> </div>Right, you're leaving Bell for Bell. They're still making $21.50/month off you.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233220</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:11:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: reasons to get people off BELL ANYWAYS</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233160</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/835558"><b>matradley</b></A> : I will be leaving Bell as soon as my contract is up in June - then it is off to Teksavvy. Luckily, I get to start doing the cancellation process in May (30 days prior to the end of contract) so that I can leave Bell without a charge. :)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233160</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:50:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: reasons to get people off BELL ANYWAYS</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233048</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : A) better techsupport<br>B) every peep you get signed up give em your ID and name and you get 1$/month<br>C) in time i know rocky and the other 3rd party ISPS will and are building there own networks.<br>D) they offer phone service in my area so i calculated what me leaving bell has cost BELL<br>1160$ /month<br>or 13,920$<br>17 people to teksavvy<br>including myself <br>and me dropping everything bell as well as my father.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233048</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:01:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Bell Doc to the CRTC</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233014</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : In a Bell submittal to the CRTC in regards to the "possibility that it might institute throttling and thereby directly affect their services."<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/public/8740/2003/b2/6767/031201.doc" >www.crtc.gc.ca/public/8740/2003/&middot;&middot;&middot;1201.doc</A><br><br><i>5.&#9;At paragraph 2, MNSi alleges that implementation of tunnel switching will affect the achievable throughput depending on the number of end-users associated with a particular tunnel switch.  In response, the Company notes that the Peak Information Rate (PIR) associated with PVCs will be eliminated when an ISP is converted to the tunnel switching architecture.  In this manner, the throughput will be determined by the customer's user network interface (UNI) access circuit capacity rather than the Peak Information Rate (PIR) setting.  Of course, Bell Canada reserves the right to implement a PIR rate in cases of troubleshooting or to protect the network infrastructure from congestion resulting from malfunctioning or mis-configured equipment or malicious hacking.</i><br><br>M. Geist responds:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2787/125/" >www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2787/125/</A><br><br><i>The new throttling system has nothing to do with troubleshooting, malfunctioning equipment, or malicious hacking, but rather involves speed limits for a particular class of traffic.  Moreover, for months Bell has been installing "deep packet inspection" capabilities into its network.  Sources advise that the company was regularly asked about its intentions and that it consistently assured ISPs that throttling would not apply to wholesale services.</i><br><br> :p<br><br>Keep your letters going to Industry canada and the CRTC]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20233014</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:32:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232995</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1535240"><b>GKC</b></A> : The CRTC must <i>never</i> allow deregulation of Bell Canada for as long as Bell exists.  The CRTC should implement <i>full</i> and <i>complete</i> regulation of Bell Canada, in light of Bell Canada's most recent sneaky, under-handedness to throttle third-party wholesalers and their customers.  <br><br>The CRTC deregulated certains aspects of Bell Canada August 2007 giving Bell too much freedom in the playground.  The CRTC must over-rule their previous decision to include full and complete regulation of Bell Canada.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232995</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:15:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232040</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1433477"><b>NBomb</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by aaannon :</small><br><br>I guess the only difference right now between Bell and TSI is price and cap. Nothing else.</div>Naw man, you won't find better service anywhere this side of a posh hotel. Come for the connection, stay for the service!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20232040</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:19:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231819</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : First when I joined TSI I was told that TSI won't throttle the line. My idea was TSI just rent the infrastructure or copper wire. Now it turns out that it's not what it is.<br><br>The throttling has nothing to do with me because I'm a newsgroup guy. I don't do any P2P at all (slow). I still don't feel easy enough because Bell still controlling my data.<br><br>I guess the only difference right now between Bell and TSI is price and cap. Nothing else.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231819</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:37:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231766</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : sorry if this has already been seen, but posting anyway :-)<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/26/bell_canada_chokes_third_party_isps/" >www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/26&middot;&middot;&middot;ty_isps/</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231766</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:29:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231674</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/774850"><b>varius</b></A> : What is really missing is the network data from Bell...<br><br>If they really have to set the throttling to "heavy" because everything is crumbling, then just admit you have to set the thing more dynamically and update your network, but, please, sound more real. Make us believe and we will understand and even help!<br><br>If the network is not that close to crash and the plan is to control content delivery, specifically live TV, movies, audio, a thing Bell would like to do for sure, P2P is the great ennemy. Forget all the morality of it, legal not legal downloads, whatever, they cannot be cops, morally, and legally...And even real cops don't care...The fact is people are downloading whatever they want right now and they are barely able to pay, even if they want, to have the same "quality of service" as a fast P2P download...But Bell might be playing cops, arresting us digitally, to gain finacially, pretending P2P is bad (the diversion). <br><br>That could blow. It's a near monopoly given permission to gain another monopoly, if we let it go. It's selling the line and the content passing in it. A century ago, many workers had to buy food at their employer's market and pay them rent. They had the bread, now they want the butter from us. <br><br>Maybe in court we will see data. <br><br>Varius]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231674</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:13:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231645</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1535240"><b>GKC</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  alec <A HREF="/useremail/u/1514256"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>"who is" much more grammar correct<br> </div>And to be more grammaticially correct:<br><br>The word <i><b>whose</i></b> is a possessive pronoun. Unlike possessive nouns, most possessive pronouns do not use apostrophes.<br><br>Example: <i>Whose</i> socks are in the chili?<br><br>The word <i><b>who's</i></b> is a contraction. It stands for who is or who has.<br><br>Example: Please see <i>who's</i> at the door.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231645</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:09:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231552</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540363"><b>gregca</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TobiasFunke <A HREF="/useremail/u/1442583"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Honestly, I think the only way to effectively send Bell a message is to establish a truly independent ISP by whatever means possible.</div>Do you have any more thoughts on this?  I've been discussing the concept of a co-op or user ISP.  Obviously a wired network  isn't very feasible, but what about a wireless network - maybe based on WiMAX?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231552</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:53:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231484</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1438918"><b>PlatooN</b></A> : This is total crap. Though now I have a good answer for a few clients of mine as to why their secured remote is so slow. Time to call a few clients who are lawyers and make a few inquires.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231484</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:41:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231372</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1513363"><b>cables</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>... An easy analogy would be a landlord, who is managing an apartment, gives himself a key to come in and out as he pleases and on top of that decide which tenants friends they let in!  I'm not sure about you, but I'm fairly certain, one; the tenant would call the police, but two; you'd land up with a very big black-eye!<br><br>**************************************************************************<br><br>Rocky<br> </div>wow, that sounds a lot like living in the basement of a 'vancouver special', with your landlord living in the main floor.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231372</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:19:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231232</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/576329"><b>Willy_ph</b></A> : I noticed only one instance where whose may have been the preferred word.  Each and every other "who" or "who's" contract was the appropriate word for the context in which it was used.<br><br>Too late.  I'm not reprinting 10 copies of each letter.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231232</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:54:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231212</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1514256"><b>alec</b></A> : "who is" much more grammar correct]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231212</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:51:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231181</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/980866"><b>jyeung</b></A> : Also..not to be picky, but use "whose" instead of "who's".<br><br>- Jason]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231181</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:45:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231145</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  UT_CK <A HREF="/useremail/u/1524289"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>As I've stated from the beginning the CRTC are a bunch of idle toads. Unless they do something about this pronto, they need to be disbanded and replaced with new blood who understand what their mandate is. Just what does it take for these spineless jellyfish to get off the pot ?<br><br>CK<br> </div>Piles of cash in the right slush fund]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231145</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:39:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231086</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508619"><b>aver</b></A> : I think the real issue is that the consumer is punished because Bell has a business practice over overselling its network. Its all because these profit driven companies get so caught up in making the shareholders happy they forget about the customers. Then when consumers strike back (switching to Teksavvy) the companies strike back at the consumers again. Its just disgusting.<br><br>I wish that the "customer is always right" motto still held true today, the world would be a better place.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231086</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:31:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231064</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540325"><b>GTAHabsFan</b></A> : Just to recap, I am a TekSavvy customer who used to be with Bell. Bell claimed that they throttled only during peak hours. Is that the same tactic that is currently being implemented? Or is it throttling 24/7?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231064</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:27:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231018</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : For the record, this is not just about BT, or P2P. As I've seen, throttling lumps ANY encrypted traffic together. In a world where more and more of us have a wish to secure our communications, that's a problem. Even worse, I use my home computer from work/school a fair bit, usually through SSH (a text-based remote login protocol), and I transfer drafts, reports, and other (legal, mostly created by yours truly) files using SCP. Both those protocols are now throttled, such that typing into my home computer, over the internet, shows a measurable lag, on the order of 3-7 seconds, if someone else in the house is torrenting. This would be even more horribly painful if someone were using an encrypted (for security) remote desktop protocol, as I would bet is getting even more and more popular.<br><br>I believe the true problem here is that we deal with companies that label themselves Internet Service Providers, when in reality, many of us want an Internet Access Provider. Just give me a pipe, let me sort the rest out.<br><br>Thank you for working for us, Rocky and all of TSI.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20231018</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:19:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230935</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/576329"><b>Willy_ph</b></A> : Ah, you are correct.  I will revise accordingly in my letter.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230935</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:02:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230924</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1307075"><b>a1_Andy</b></A> : Only thing wrong I can find so far is that you said "while having no impact upon other protocols" sadly it has a affect on "everything" that passes through the network. I say everything because the sharper that they have implemented inspects ALL TCP traffic and causes a delay for the inspection. Gaming Voip extra (any thing that requires a low ping).<br>Hold on, bell needs to inspect that last packet it might be P2P, as you go for your next frag........now you get Bell Lagg and die.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230924</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:00:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230881</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1535240"><b>GKC</b></A> : <i><b>Excellent!</i></b>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230881</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:53:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230832</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/576329"><b>Willy_ph</b></A> : Here are copies of the letters I'm sending tomorrow. One to the CRTC and one to the Competition Bureau.  Both are copied to many individuals (Rocky's going to be starting up a Timmy's in the office to handle the influx of paper I think ;) )<br><br>  <blockquote><small>said by me :</small><hr>Konrad von Finckenstein, Chairman<br>C.R.T.C.<br>Ottawa, ON<br>K1A 0N2<br><br>March 26, 2008<br><br>Dear Mr. von Finckenstein,<br><br>Re: Bell Canada &#150; Throttling of 3rd Party DSL Providers<br><br>It has recently been revealed that Bell Canada has implemented technologies that are unilaterally throttling the internet connections provided by 3rd party internet providers who utilize Bell Canada&#146;s Nexxia network to backhaul connections between the customer and the ISP.  <br><br>Moreover, Bell Canada chose to implement these technologies without advising those who would be directly affected by the changes; specifically 3rd party internet providers and their customers.  The actions taken by Bell Canada effectively dictate what type of service can be provided by 3rd party providers who must utilize Bell&#146;s network because there is no other cost effective alternative (the capital required to duplicate the Bell network would be absolutely staggering).  <br><br>To make it clear, Bell Canada has imposed unilateral limitations on upon 3rd party providers by selectively throttling the bandwidth provided to their customers as it transits through Bell&#146;s Nexxia network.  It has been shown that the bandwidth is being selectively shaped to affect certain transfer protocols, while having no impact upon other protocols.  <br><br>I would imagine that once challenged on the subject, Bell will contend that their system does not affect legitimate internet traffic (likely construed as HTTP (web) and SMTP (email) traffic).  However there are other protocols that are utilized for legitimate purposes beyond web and email traffic.  Even some highly contentious P2P protocols, such as bittorrent, are utilized for legitimate purposes, as evidenced by the recent decision by the CBC to release Canada&#146;s Next Great Prime Minister for free using bittorrent.  In addition to its obvious effect upon P2P protocols, the throttling system implemented by Bell is affected other protocols which are critical to my ability to work and communicate with others and enjoy the product which I have purchased from Teksavvy Solutions Inc.  I work from home and depend on a Virtual Private Network (VPN) connection to access information at work and make use of VOIP services to communicate with others.  These services are virtually useless with the technology that has been implemented.  Since the throttling was introduced I have encountered problems trying to work from home and use my VOIP telephone, not to mention the fact that I cannot play online games anymore due to the degradation of my internet service by the throttling introduced by Bell.<br><br>Bell clearly enjoys a dominant position in providing telecommunications (phone and internet) services to Canadians in Ontario, Quebec and beyond.  As a result, it is clearly a controversial move on their part to impose a system which limits that ability of other companies to provide a service to their customers as they see fit, and compete based on that product alone.  It is a direct result of Bell&#146;s dominance that the imposition of these new technologies is so egregious and anti-competitive.  This move appears to strike at the very foundation that was built by the CRTC to ensure fair competition and access to legitimate telecommunications alternatives for Canadian consumers.<br><br>I am sure that your Commission is concerned about the apparent move on Bell&#146;s part to undermine the equitable playing field that you have worked to construct for both Canadian businesses and consumers.  It is my hope that you will use whatever means possible to ensure that Bell rescinds the implementation of these throttling technologies on their network, as 3rd party providers have no other alternative through which to provide internet services via DSL technology to the Canadian consumer.<br><br>If I may iterate, as the regulating body of tariffed telecommunications services in Canada (of which Bell is a provider in this particular circumstance), your body has an obligation to ensure that the rules that have been established by your Commission are not breached.  If it is shown that a breach has occurred through the implementation of throttling technologies on the wholesale connectivity provided to 3rd party providers, your Commission must act to rectify the situation and punish the offending party.<br><br>The future of network neutrality and real alternatives for Canadian consumers rests in your Commissions hands.  I will be monitoring the subsequent actions your Commission takes and hope you will act in the best interests of Canadians.<br><br>Yours truly,<br><br>Willy_ph<br><br>Cc:&#9;Hon. Jim Prentice, Minister of Industry<br>Hon. Jos&eacute;e Verner, Minister of Canadian Heritage<br>Rick Norlock, MP Northumberland &#150; Quinte West<br>Scott Brison, MP Kings &#150; Hants<br>Peggy Nash, MP Parkdale &#150; High Park<br>Bill Siskay, MP Burnaby &#150; Douglas <br>Rocky Gaudrault, President & CEO &#150; Teksavvy Solutions Inc.<br>Michael J. Sabia, President &#150; BCE Inc.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>  <blockquote><small>said by me :</small><hr>Sheridan Scott, Commissioner<br>Competition Bureau<br>50 Victoria St.<br>Gatineau, QC<br>K1A 0C9<br><br>March 26, 2008<br><br>Dear Ms. Sheridan,<br>&#9;<br>Re: Abuse of Dominant Position &#150; Bell Canada<br><br>It has recently come to light that Bell Canada has implemented technologies that effectively limit the ability of 3rd party wholesalers to provide a service to their clients free of interference and did so without any warning of their impending action.  The technologies in question throttle the bandwidth provided by a 3rd party ISP to their clients, who utilize the &#147;last mile&#148; of copper infrastructure owned by Bell Canada.  These 3rd parties have established contracts with Bell Canada who&#146;s only obligation is to provide an interface to backhaul information from my household to a central point (in this case the network facilities at 151 Front St., Toronto, ON) at which point it is handed off to my ISP.  <br><br>What has recently been revealed is the fact that Bell Canada is utilizing traffic shaping technologies to interfere with my internet connection as it is backhauled to my ISP (Teksavvy Solutions Inc., based in Chatham, ON).  These throttling technologies affect only certain internet protocols, which Bell Canada must feel are illegitimate uses.  Let me make it clear, I am not an internet service subscriber with Bell Canada, nor do I wish to be.  The only responsibility Bell has in relation to my internet service is to ensure that the information is transferred from my modem, across the &#147;last mile&#148; to my ISP.<br><br>It is obvious that Bell Canada enjoys a dominant position in the telecommunications market place.  This fact cannot be disputed.  In the past there were legitimate reasons for Bell Canada to exist as a monopoly.  However, those times have passed us by.  What we must now ensure is that their dominant position is not utilized to exercise undue interference in the marketplace.  Unfortunately, it appears that this may be the case.  <br><br>Bell has been directed by the CRTC to allow 3rd party internet providers access to their &#147;last mile&#148; of copper infrastructure so alternative telecommunication products are available to the market.  3rd party providers establish contracts, governed by CRTC regulations, with Bell to access this &#147;last mile&#148; and consumers subsequently engage in relationships with these 3rd parties to purchase a product.  It is not expected, by the 3rd party providers or their customers that Bell will influence the service that they provide or purchase.  The only limitation that should be imposed on the service are those that the providers impose themselves.   What Bell Canada has effectively done, by implementing these technologies, is mandated to 3rd party providers what type of service they can provide to their clients.  I purchased a product from my provider under the impression that only they would impose limitations on the service, and with due warning if changes were to occur.<br><br>Bell Canada, however, has utilized their dominant position to unilaterally alter the service to which I subscribe and without notification, to either me or my provider.  This is an absolutely unacceptable action on their part and one that must not be allowed to stand.  This decision on Bell&#146;s part effectively stifles competition, as it affects any DSL provider who contracts with Bell to provide wholesale access to the &#147;last mile&#148; (effectively all DSL providers due to the monopoly over the copper infrastructure).<br><br>I ask that your Commission investigate the actions that Bell has pursued and order them to reverse the implementation of the throttling technologies, as they look inherently anti-competitive.  I selected my specific ISP because they do not throttle, or impose bandwidth limitations on my internet service.  My ISP has established a business structure that allows them to offer a service that is neither throttled, nor subject to bandwidth caps.  Bell has concretely, substantially, and without authorization, altered the service that I purchased.<br><br>I call upon the Competition Bureau to investigate these recent actions and order Bell Canada to reverse their implementation. <br><br>Yours truly,<br><br>Willy_ph<br><br>Cc:&#9;Hon. Jim Prentice, Minister of Industry<br>Hon. Jos&eacute;e Verner, Minister of Canadian Heritage<br>Rick Norlock, MP Northumberland &#150; Quinte West<br>Scott Brison, MP Kings &#150; Hants<br>Peggy Nash, MP Parkdale &#150; High Park<br>Bill Siskay, MP Burnaby &#150; Douglas <br>Rocky Gaudrault, President & CEO &#150; Teksavvy Solutions Inc.<br>Michael J. Sabia, President &#150; BCE Inc.<br><hr></blockquote>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230832</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:45:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230819</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1524289"><b>UT_CK</b></A> : As I've stated from the beginning the CRTC are a bunch of idle toads. Unless they do something about this pronto, they need to be disbanded and replaced with new blood who understand what their mandate is. Just what does it take for these spineless jellyfish to get off the pot ?<br><br>CK]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230819</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:43:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230578</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1511627"><b>Grounded</b></A> : Willy, <br><br>Good list. Great idea to include the opposition as well.  I think it's probably worthwile including someone from the NDP as this sure feels like the corporate masters beating on the little guy & that's kinda their bailiwick. :)  Since this hits Quebec as well might someone from yet another party read into the situation interference with cultural exchange?  ;)  <br><br>What the heck, seems the more people feel they have a dog in this race the better. <br><br>I also copied my local MPP & city counsellor as well.  They can't really much but add to the noise if this piques their interest.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230578</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:07:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230345</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/539077"><b>sbrook</b></A> : I do know that it's not Sandvine boxes.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230345</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:27:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230293</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by spliffy :</small><br><br>Confused by all this talk about writing to the CRTC.  The CRTC has quite publicly stated that they are unwilling/unable to dictate ISP business practices, as explained here:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/t1003.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/t1003.htm</A><br><br>The real Canadian Competition Bureau (different from CRTC) and the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/ots/cf/ExistingComplaintForm.do?locale=en" >www.ccts-cprst.ca/ots/cf/Existin&middot;&middot;&middot;ocale=en</A>) seem better avenues?  Guess the CRTC won't hurt.  Just pound all levels of government.<br> </div>The CRTC however *does* regulate tariffed telecommunication services.  Which includes the service we are talking about.  We're not talking about an ISP that needs spanking, we're talking about a provider of essential telecommunications services, on a wholesale level, that is abusing their position to screw over their customers.<br><br>What you are seeing here, is akin to the gas company saying "well, geez, we've noticed that people use a lot more gas in the evening hours of the winter months, so from now on we're going to reduce the available supply at those times."<br><br>Do you think they'd get away with it?  We'd be all over the energy board.  They regulate gas services.  The CRTC regulates telecommunications.  It's time they got off the pot they've been on for the last 10 years.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230293</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:19:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230236</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/576329"><b>Willy_ph</b></A> : I'm currently preparing separate letters to the CRTC and the Competition Bureau.<br><br>They will be copied to the following:<br><br>Rick Norlock (My MP)<br>Josee Verner, Minister of Canadian Heritage (CRTC falls under her jurisdiction)<br>Jim Prentice, Minister of Industry (Competition Bureau falls under his jurisdiction)<br>Rocky Gaudrault, TSI<br>Michael J. Sabia, BCE<br>Scott Brison, Industry Critic for the Official Opposition]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230236</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:07:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230226</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  theninjasqua <A HREF="/useremail/u/1490099"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I still don't understand how/why Bell went ahead and did this and did not even inform the wholesalers of this. If they are in a business agreement for the service, should the wholesalers not had some kind of warning that this is going to occur? That was incredibly ballsy of Bell to go and turn the throttling on, let the users figure out that there it throttling going on, then let their wholesales ISP's know. What a mess.<br><br> </div>This is typical Bell strongarm tactics.  They've always taken the attitude "who'll stop us, we're Bell."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230226</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:05:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230106</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1521514"><b>Stiffarm</b></A> : I've heard that Bell was using Sandvine boxes, but by the reports on what is getting throttled how I doubt the rumors to be true.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20230106</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:46:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229984</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/539077"><b>sbrook</b></A> : Bell's throttling boxes were producing lots of false positives (i.e. identifying things as throttlable)<br><br>Somewhere I read that Bell was using the same boxes as Rogers.<br><br>Don't think so.<br><br>From the rumour mills, Rogers uses Cisco's pCube service engines, and Bell bought into Ellacoya (same as used by Shaw out west).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229984</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:26:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229949</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/581584"><b>Leathal</b></A> : I have a question Rocky, <br><br>Just how good is the technology for throttling today? Does it produce any false positives, if so what percentage?<br><br>Leathal]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229949</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:20:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229911</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1535240"><b>GKC</b></A> : Kudos to Ryan Stone & Alicia Simon.  I, too, sent an email off to Kevin Crull this morning notifying him of my intention to cancel my home phone with Bell the very moment TekSavvy launches their home phone.  I'll not even have my number ported over from Bell to TekSavvy.  I'll start afresh with TekSavvy and be more than willing to pay an activation fee, if TekSavvy feels the need to charge; as well, I forwarded a letter off to the Competition Bureau.  I encourage others to do the same.<br><br><i>United we stand, divided we fall</i> :)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229911</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:14:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229859</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1490185"><b>loginname</b></A> : Just wanted to let Rocky know that another TSI subscriber has contacted the competition bureau, the Minister of Industry, MP, and MPP.<br><br>Let's keep the ball rolling.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229859</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:04:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229793</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : Where the competition bureau can get involved is that Bell's actions will prevent independant ISPs from providing options in their services that distinguish themselves from Sympatico, this removing competitive advantages.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229793</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:51:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229784</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : >he CRTC has quite publicly stated that they are <br>>unwilling/unable to dictate ISP business practices, as <br>>explained here:<br><br>Once more, we are not talking about an internet service provider.<br><br>We are not even talking about a TCPIP network.<br><br>We are talking about a regulated service which consists in providing DSL at certain speeds to end users and forwarding PPPoE packets to a company connected to the bell backbone.<br><br>The contents of the PPPoE packets are NOT assumed to be IP packlets in the 5410 document. And there is no mention that the typical use will be for browsing.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229784</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:49:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229727</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Confused by all this talk about writing to the CRTC.  The CRTC has quite publicly stated that they are unwilling/unable to dictate ISP business practices, as explained here:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/t1003.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/t1003.htm</A><br><br>The real Canadian Competition Bureau (different from CRTC) and the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/ots/cf/ExistingComplaintForm.do?locale=en" >www.ccts-cprst.ca/ots/cf/Existin&middot;&middot;&middot;ocale=en</A>) seem better avenues?  Guess the CRTC won't hurt.  Just pound all levels of government.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229727</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:38:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229717</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1538279"><b>cacruden</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  nanook <A HREF="/useremail/u/1508357"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>It would indeed be difficult. Rogers is notorious for entering into sweetheart deals with builders in which they wire cable throughout the building for free in exchange for long term exclusive rights to use that cable. Even if you installed all the necessary hardware for satellite TV and/or Internet you would not be allowed to use the existing cable. And of course, it would be prohibitively expensive to run new cable.</div>It would be interesting to find out.  I remember the condo was sold as connecting directly to the internet care of IBM, but when I took possession - it was Rogers.  I believe it has been around 10 years now - don't know how long the contracts are for.  I know that the condo board was against signing contracts where companies retained control of equipment (i.e. ExpressVu Satellite Dish); but did allow ExpressVu for condos in because there was no new infrastructure needed.  Maybe I should inquire into it with Property Management.  As far as running cable - outside of the unit I don't think it would be all that difficult since I see the cables running above the hallway (which is basically open - not even a conduit) -- at least I am assuming those are the cables.  Inside the unit, I believe I am the owner.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229717</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:36:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229508</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : My apartment building provides "free wireless internet" to all tenants. They seem to have a fibre line with Videotron (VTL).<br><br>First of all, the line is horrible overloaded, and second of all, the wireless signal doesn't really reach my apartment (second to last on the edge of the building). They're missing out on at least 8 apartment per floor, probably 12 per floor.<br><br>Anyhow, clearly while my building does a horrible job of it, it's certainly something that a building could do. An apartment building could pay for a Cogent rollout, get a 100mbit fibre line, share it among tenants. But they won't. They like money too much. So instead they're probably trying to cover 250 apartments on a 10meg (or maybe a bit more, hard to tell) Videotron fibre optic link.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229508</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:57:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229469</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508357"><b>nanook</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  kbray <A HREF="/useremail/u/1137179"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>They are taking a grey area in the agreement and twisting it to say what they want.  <br><br>Bell is known to lie...Ask any former customer.</div>If it is a "grey area" then taking one side or the other is not lying, nor is there anything wrong with doing so.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  cacruden <A HREF="/useremail/u/1538279"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>As it stands right now, I think the only solution (which would be difficult) would be to convince the whole condo corporation to switch .... but that is just a dream I guess (Merchandise Building - Toronto). </div>It would indeed be difficult. Rogers is notorious for entering into sweetheart deals with builders in which they wire cable throughout the building for free in exchange for long term exclusive rights to use that cable. Even if you installed all the necessary hardware for satellite TV and/or Internet you would not be allowed to use the existing cable. And of course, it would be prohibitively expensive to run new cable. <br><br>Maybe wireless, assuming it has the range and capacity to service the entire building.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229469</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:48:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229410</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1490099"><b>theninjasqua</b></A> : Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think Telus offers residential internet in Ontario, aside from some condos in downtown Toronto. Unless you want to shell out for a business account, you are probably out of luck. You might as well move to cable if you want to have some faster P2P speeds. Otherwise you don't really have any options.<br><small>--<br><br>-theninjasquad</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229410</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:38:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229377</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1463351"><b>sppena</b></A> : I will write to my MP and MMP, the Competition Bureau, CRTC and a letter to Kevin Krull about this issue. Hopefully it gets the message across. But if nothing is done, eventhough I really teksavvy's customer service, I will pick up my bags and move on to another ISP (i hated typing it). <br><br>According to this article: &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080325.wgtinternet26/BNStory/Technology/home" >www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/&middot;&middot;&middot;ogy/home</A><br>Telus may be a good alternative "Telus Corp. has stated it does not manage or shape any of the traffic on its networks."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229377</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:32:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229311</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1538279"><b>cacruden</b></A> : I figure they expected to get some negative press/response and figure they will just keep their head down and muddle their way through it.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229311</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:19:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229301</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : what a kick in the nuts it would be if bell stoped throttling only its users]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229301</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:17:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229289</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/512567"><b>travisc</b></A> : I'm sure Kevin Krull will be mystified by this communication.  You might want to send it to Kevin Crull instead.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229289</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:15:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229285</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/809302"><b>justsometech</b></A> : very impressive! hopefully everyone will follow suit here, keep on sending in the complaints and tell you MPP, MP and Competition Bureau]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229285</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:14:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229254</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/670456"><b>LiQuiD</b></A> : Do tell us if you get a response!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229254</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229197</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1451074"><b>Zero DSL</b></A> : I have sent this letter to Kevin Krull from Bell, you should do something similar.<br><br><b>Dear Mr. Crull,<br><br>I will be canceling all of my existing Bell services immediately.  I have had internet, home phone, and expressvu with your company for 7 years.  I am a not even thirty yet, so I have paid for your services my entire adult life without issue.<br><br>My problem is your recent policy change regarding Bell Sympatico and Bell internet resellers.  Capping a service's total use is terrible (30/30) and now Bell is throttling not only legal bit torrents and very legal P2P services such as Xbox Live, a premium service from Microsoft (who is one of your partners), you are also in direct violation of anti competition laws when you throttle ISPs that have bought into your infrastructure and advertise unlimited internet.  You must've lost a lot of customers to resellers based on that promise alone, never mind the huge price difference for identical service.  I have also had to turn off encryption on my WAN traffic so that you don't falsely classify it as P2P, leaving my network exposed to attack and privacy concerns.<br><br>I will be submitting a letter to the Canadian Competition Bureau on behalf of of my family and over 30 other affected families in my building I have canvassed and informed of your recent changes to your Terms and Conditions, many are prepared to cancel.  I am aware of similar indepenent initiatives in Southern Ontario, your biggest market.  In a way, you have destroyed one of your biggest advantages over the cable ISPs by nulifying the fact that DSL ISN'T affected as greatly by overall traffic, having dedicated copper lines into each home, unlike cable that is daisy-chained across neighbourhoods and can actually benefit from "prime time" traffic shaping. <br><br> Who is going to buy your DSL2 24MB service when the only thing NOT capped/throttled is checking email?  I can check my email just as fast and richly on my Rogers Cell phone.  Why should I buy a car that is advertised to have a 500hp engine but  is capped at 175hp at the factory?  Isn't that false advertising?  You may want to forward this to your legal department.<br><br>So Long,<br><br>Ryan Stone & Alicia Simon</b>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229197</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:59:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229148</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/670456"><b>LiQuiD</b></A> : For those unsure how to go about it.. simply go to this site, and put in your postal code.  From there you'll have an email or fax and at the least an address you can send your letter to.  Be heard!<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/MemberByPostalCode.aspx?Menu=HOC" >www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compila&middot;&middot;&middot;Menu=HOC</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229148</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:50:01 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229094</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : I wrote my MP, the CRTC, and filed a complaint on the competition bureau... I suggest all do the same...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229094</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:41:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229083</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1538279"><b>cacruden</b></A> : They should force a breakup of bell where the "last mile" of wiring is one company, and the rest of it (long distance, local phone, Internet, TV) is part of another company.<br><br>They then can "regulate" the small "last mile" company, and release the other company to be fully market driven.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229083</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:39:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229062</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1499413"><b>Joe1419</b></A> : I really do hope that everyone reading this thread takes a few minutes to let the government (and Bell) know how they feel.<br><br>So many times we just sit back assuming others will be their voice, but we need a strong united voice to let Bell know their actions are not appropriate and will not be tolerated.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229062</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:35:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228931</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : This is the most important thing that needs to be brought to people's attention. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228931</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:14:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228907</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/765277"><b>eots</b></A> : Bell owning Sympatico is proving to be a conflict of interest and the CRTC should force Bell to get out of the ISP business.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228907</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:11:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228890</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1253725"><b>Kdee</b></A> : You're famous now  :) :<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://itnerd.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/isps-to-bell-stop-throttling-or-well-sue/" >itnerd.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/&middot;&middot;&middot;ell-sue/</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228890</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:08:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228877</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : >I think it is safe to assume that Bell's internal, and likely <br>>external, legal counsel have been all over the contracts <br><br>Bell is stuck with ancient copper technology and it knows it. People's use of intternet is increasing, but revenues aren't. bell is expected to upgrade its backbone network to support the added network load but isn't getting additional revenus for it.<br><br>With Cable having blindsighted the old DSL kludge, Bell knows that it will eventually abandon its antique copper infrastructure and go with fibre and that will need a lot money. (money Bell would have had it not wasted it buying all sorts of trinkets during the .COM frienzy)<br><br>So this move probably has a lot more political motives than legal ones. Bell may very know that it is illegal, but is using it to force re-opening of the 5410 tarriff so Bell could get more "motivation" to spend money to upgrade network in exchange for dropping the throttling.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228877</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:05:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228868</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1137179"><b>kbray</b></A> : I can't speak for Rocky, but I have a feeling IF they are going the legal route, he MAY not be able to comment too much on anything..]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228868</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:05:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228860</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1538279"><b>cacruden</b></A> : Same here, just walked away from Rogers a week ago.  Something seemed wrong though, I just had not tested it to see if it was a problem with the connection or my inside wiring.  Just did not seem as responsive as it should be.  <br><br>As it stands right now, I think the only solution (which would be difficult) would be to convince the whole condo corporation to switch .... but that is just a dream I guess (Merchandise Building - Toronto).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228860</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:04:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228857</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1490099"><b>theninjasqua</b></A> : I still don't understand how/why Bell went ahead and did this and did not even inform the wholesalers of this. If they are in a business agreement for the service, should the wholesalers not had some kind of warning that this is going to occur? That was incredibly ballsy of Bell to go and turn the throttling on, let the users figure out that there it throttling going on, then let their wholesales ISP's know. What a mess.<br><br>Rocky, what did Bell say in the meeting regarding that? I am assuming you probably asked them why they didn't inform you beforehand of this.<br><small>--<br><br>-theninjasquad</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228857</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:04:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228835</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1137179"><b>kbray</b></A> : I haven't read the docs.. but I think it's likely some GREY language that bell is using to do this.   They have done this before when they tried to say you HAD to have a Bell Canada Home phone to get anyone BUT Sympatico on your line.  I had a fight with them on this, as I had Sprint at the time and they refused to install anyone but sympatico.   A complaint went to the CRTC and it wasn't long after they where ORDERED to stop refusing to install non-bell dsl on non-bell lines.<br><br>I think this is the case here..  They are taking a grey area in the agreement and twisting it to say what they want.  <br><br>Bell is known to lie...Ask any former customer.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228835</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:00:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228820</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508619"><b>aver</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sMURF <A HREF="/useremail/u/1442410"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://digg.com/tech_news/Canadian_ISPs_furious_about_Bell_Canada_s_traffic_throttling" >digg.com/tech_news/Canadian_ISPs&middot;&middot;&middot;rottling</A><br><br>Front page of Digg!<br> </div>The arstechinca story is on the front page of reddit.com as well ! Hopefully this will bring some much needed attention to this issue]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228820</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:57:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228808</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/867851"><b>thm655321</b></A> : I think it is safe to assume that Bell's internal, and likely external, legal counsel have been all over the contracts to see whether Bell can "argue" that Bell is within its rights.  Whether the CRTC or a court would conclude likewise is quite another matter. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228808</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:53:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228795</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : @orson<br><br>LoL - The internet totally needs a superhero!<br><br>And what this country needs is better protection for consumers. But what can you do when you have an industry minister who basically serves as a whore for corporate interests?<br><br>@Jason042<br><br>I think it is safe to say that many of us have always appreciated Teksavvy, as they have always treated customer service and satisfaction as a high priority.<br><br>@Rocky<br><br>I do have to ask - If Bell is stating that they are within their legal rights to throttle (via their agreement with you), I assume they are not lying, and that they have always had this as an option. <br><br>Were you actually not aware of this, or did you just not believe that they would ever do it?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228795</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:50:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228793</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1512253"><b>bjlockie</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by anonguy :</small><br><br>so JUST bt and p2p traffic will be affected?<br> </div>slippery slope]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228793</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:50:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228737</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1137179"><b>kbray</b></A> : Rocky may be the guy... give him time... :)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228737</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:37:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228733</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : i literally signed up with teksavvy 13 days ago specifically for this issue with rogers, and was happy as a pig in s%$^ untill today.<br>the internet needs a superhero]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228733</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:37:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228719</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : At the moment I'm a Teksavvy unlimited customer and I pay more to not worry about a download limit. As of yet I don't think I've ever even gone over the 200GB limit (although I've probably come close on occasion)<br><br>Now with my p2p downloads limited to 30kbp/s, even with my best effort I'll never reach 200GB.  The sensible thing to do would be to switch to the premium service, since I'd rather be over Cognet now that the download cap is irrelevant.<br><br>At the same time, and what irks me, is I don't want to 'punish' Teksavvy by switching to a cheaper plan just because of Bell's screw up.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228719</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:34:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228706</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : >I'm just puzzled because if they do give you layer 2, how the <br>>hell are they actually examing the traffic at the ATM level?<br><br>PPPoE packets are broken up into multiple ATM packets to get through the ugly kludge that ADSL is. But at some point within the opaque Bell cloud, those PPPoE packets are re-assembled so that the BAS can look at the PPPoE header and route it to the right ISP.<br><br>From what I read, Bell is trying to re-assemble those packets back into ethernet packets as close to the DSLAM as possible. Once you get an ethernet frame with a full PPPoE packet inside, it becomes easier to look further inside to look inside the TCPIP packet and inside the TCPIP packet, you find the payload and decide if you like that type of data or not, and if you don't, you slow the packet down.<br><br>Once the packet is back into a single ethernet frame, it becomes easy for Bell to ship it to the ISP over WAN ethernet links instead of breaking it all up into silly ATM backs to be shipped to ISPs. (the conversion to ethernet as the link to ISPs is recent on Bell territory (I think it was done last year if I am not mistaken)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228706</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:32:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228654</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1275904"><b>cluster5</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://news.google.ca/nwshp?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1145890587&topic=t" >news.google.ca/nwshp?client=fire&middot;&middot;&middot;&topic=t</A><br>Currently 13 article in Google News.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228654</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:21:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228606</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1442410"><b>sMURF</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://digg.com/tech_news/Canadian_ISPs_furious_about_Bell_Canada_s_traffic_throttling" >digg.com/tech_news/Canadian_ISPs&middot;&middot;&middot;rottling</A><br><br>Front page of Digg!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228606</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:12:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228512</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/809302"><b>justsometech</b></A> : Competition bereau to file a complaint:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic/site/cb-bc.nsf/en/01260e.html" >www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/epic&middot;&middot;&middot;60e.html</A><br><br>and the minister of industry:<br>Minister.Industry@ic.gc.ca]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228512</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:55:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228453</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1440434"><b>chrish</b></A> : My anti-bell throttleing facebook 'Stop Bell From Throttling DSL Resellers' group has 140 members already and I didn't invite anyone<br><br>Hopefully we don't loose momentum on this and bell continues to be in the news with thieir bad antics]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228453</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:44:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228318</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540215"><b>blinki</b></A> : I've just joined this site as a happy teksavvy customer for the past 6 months.  I left Cogeco because of hard rate caps and convinced as many of my friends as possible to switch away from Bell and Rogers because of their tactics.<br><br>I'm with you teksavvy, they drew first blood and they deserve the worst.  Fight those crooks to the end, I'll be with you all the way!<br>I've already emailed my local representative, the minister of Canadian heritage (I couldn't download the CBC's show because of the cap) and the secretary of state, joined the facebook site and invited all my friends.<br><br>If there's anything more I can do, let me know here or by emailing all your customers.  I'll protest or participate in class action lawsuit, whatever it takes.<br><br>Thank you again for standing up for us,<br>Chris]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228318</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:21:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228222</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : No. Videotron doesn't currently throttle.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228222</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:06:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228189</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/168864"><b>sporkme</b></A> : Hey Rocky,<br><br>I'm a bit lost on how they're doing this to you.  In the US, both the bells and the DLECs like Covad and NewEdge hand their wholesale traffic to their ISP "partners" as a layer 2 ATM connection.  Is it done differently up there?  I noticed you mentioned gig-e, which, unless they're doing some funky vlan-per-customer thing sounds like they are giving you a layer 3 connection.  I'm just puzzled because if they do give you layer 2, how the hell are they actually examing the traffic at the ATM level?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228189</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:01:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228166</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1447891"><b>ddurdle</b></A> : Doesn't Videotron already have time caps, like you can only download so much during certain times of the day?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228166</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:57:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228158</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1447891"><b>ddurdle</b></A> : That's the whole purpose of this thread.  The throttle is on 3rd parties.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228158</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:56:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228156</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/539077"><b>sbrook</b></A> : Byte caps are to limit transit bandwidth from their bandwidth providers and reduce costs (and given the recharging to increase revenues!)  So, since Bell isn't in that part of a 3rd party's loop, they shouldn't be involved in caps!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228156</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:55:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228155</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/706116"><b>The Flash</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Laidback <A HREF="/useremail/u/485926"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Anyone know whether Bell will implement their caps to 3rd party ISP's??  They may as well go for the gusto and screw us all.<br> </div>Actually I figure they would have done this first.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228155</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:55:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228150</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1447891"><b>ddurdle</b></A> : I'm going to savor my torrents while I can.  I haven't downloaded for over a week, so not since the throttle.  I normally throttle myself at 200 kB/s (no real reason) but I've thrown that out the window.  I'm downloading via torrents right now at 450kB/s, but then again, it's only noon here and according to the reports, the throttle starts at 4pm daily (for now at least).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228150</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:54:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228145</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/485926"><b>Laidback</b></A> : Anyone know whether Bell will implement their caps to 3rd party ISP's??  They may as well go for the gusto and screw us all.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20228145</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:53:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227914</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : >And, once again, let's not forget that only Rogers throttles. <br>>Not Videotron.<br><br>This is EXTREMELY different.<br><br>the ISP can throttle all it wants. The ISP portion is NOt regulated. And customers who are unhappy can leave to another ISP. Roger's throttling affects only Rogers customers.<br><br>Bell is throtting not its customers, but customers of other ISPs in a service that is regulated by the CRTC (GAS) and which is wholesale transport of frames. GAS is NOT a TCPIP service. It is a PPPoE service. GAS isn't connected to the INternet, it is not an internet service. It is bulk transport and agregation of PPPoE packets.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227914</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:07:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227883</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : Of course, there are no guarantees. However, Videotron has been rather open and aggressive about caps, and seems to prefer using them (as ridiculously low as they are) over capping.<br><br>What's the point of throttling when most of your customers are on a 20GB/mth cap while paying over $50 per month for service? :P]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227883</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:01:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227847</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508357"><b>nanook</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>And, once again, let's not forget that only Rogers throttles. Not Videotron.</div>Until recently the mantra on this forum was, "And, once again, let's not forget that only Bell throttles. Not TekSavvy." <br><br>As recently as a week or two ago it was inconceivable that TSI would throttle. We had Rocky's word on that. And yet, while he held to his word, forces outside of his control managed to throttle us anyway. Granted, Videotron owns its infrastructure. But when they can no longer meet the exponentially increasing demand for bandwidth they will be forced to take action, whether it is throttling, capping (which they do now) or some other measures (e.g. raising rates.)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227847</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:56:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227827</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508357"><b>nanook</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jfmezei <A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>From a network management perspective there are other issues... When dial-up internet became popular, it caused a lot of headaches to Bell because all of a sudden, calling patterns changed, call duration went from a few minutes to a few hours and the busy hour changes to evenings. All of a sudden, people in the suburns would have calls lasting hours to some downtown location (the ISP's modem banks). Bell has had to adjust their capacity accordingly. They didn't go to the CRTYC and cry on their shoulders. They didn't start to interrupt telephone calls and tell people to hangup. And they didn't start to force people to speak slower on the phone. They did what they had to do and increased capacity where new capacity was needed to meet the changing needs of the telephone system.</div>While the analogy is valid, and not to defend Bell's actions, it is possible that the rate of growth in demand for bandwidth that arises from the popularity of video streaming, P2P, etc. is much greater than the growth rate during the dial-up era. Of course since Bell has been less than transparent on this there is no way to know what practical and cost challenges Bell is actually facing.<br><br><div class="bquote">Now, Bell can do what it wants to optimise its backbone so it doesn't waste money/capacity. But when usage patterns change, Bell *MUST* adapt instead of complain.</div>Well they are adapting. You and I may not like <i>how</i> they are adapting, but that is another matter.<br><br><div class="bquote">In theory, Bell is expected to be able to provide the full 5mbps to everyone at the same time, just like, in theory, Bell is expected to support everyone picking up their phone and dialing at the same time.</div>Not at all. Bell's POTS network capacity is based on normal usage patterns and queuing theory. If everyone picked up the phone at the same time they would not all hear dial tone. Many would get a busy signal. This happens regularly when there is an emergency such as a natural disaster. The same situation, but to an even greater extent, happens with the cellphone network. If POTS is more resilient it is probably because the infrastructure is more mature and more likely to be overbuilt (e.g. as a legacy from the dialup days.) <br><br>DSL and the Internet is no different. No one expected that a 5Mb/s DSL lines would be run at 5000/800 24x7x365, never mind that a large number of such lines would be used that way. Hence no one (Bell, Rogers, etc.) developed infrastructure to support this sort of usage.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227827</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:50:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227817</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : And, once again, let's not forget that only Rogers throttles. Not Videotron.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227817</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:47:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227787</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/539077"><b>sbrook</b></A> : Also worth pointing out that people may point to cable and say "Cable does it too", cable throttles users for a significantly different reason.<br><br>The cable upstream path on any given neighbourhood cable segment is very limited and quite saturable with a comparatively few people running P2P flat out.  The only way to resolve that with the currently deployed technology is to put fewer homes on a segment, but that is exceptionally costly and essentially changes the nature of cable topology.<br><br>But cable HAS been working on this issue, and with the channel bonding of DOCSIS 3 and later the move to Ditigal cable freeing up frequency space on the cable, the upstream scenario will improve.<br><br>For both cable and telco, the cost is certainly a factor ... but For cable, designing and implementing the technology is the delay, but at least it's enroute.  For the telco it appears to be that the technology is available, but Bell doesn't appear to want to spend that money ... and instead want to cripple its service to the customer, and charge them more for it.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227787</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:41:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227718</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : >Its how much bandwidth we use, not the source or the reason.<br><br>From a network management perspective there are other issues.<br><br>Consider POTS telephone service. Bell has statistics that show how many calls are made and average call duration, and they have statistics that show how many calls are routed between 2 COs at any point of time with peaks etc.<br><br>Based on those statistics, they size their trunks accordingly. They don't want to spend more money than necessary for capacity that wouldn't be used. But this is why if everyone picks up the phone at the same time, they won't all get dialtone, and if everyone in a suburb dials to a downtown location at the same time, they will get a fast busy becayse therte aren't enough circuits between the suburban CO and the downtown CO. <br><br>When dial-up internet became popular, it caused a lot of headaches to Bell because all of a sudden, calling patterns changed, call duration went from a few minutes to a few hours and the busy hour changes to evenings. All of a sudden, people in the suburns would have calls lasting hours to some downtown location (the ISP's modem banks). Bell has had to adjust their capacity accordingly. They didn't go to the CRTYC and cry on their shoulders. They didn't start to interrupt telephone calls and tell people to hangup. And they didn't start to force people to speak slower on the phone. They did what they had to do and increased capacity where new capacity was needed to meet the changing needs of the telephone system.<br><br>Now, lets get back to DSL:<br><br>Just like Bell didn't build its phone system to support everyone dialing at the same time, Bell didn't build its DSL backbone to support everyone downloading at 5mbps at the same time. They looked at usage statistics and found that on average, you have a few short HTTP transactions followed by a long period of inactivity while you read a page. So, they sized their backbone accordingly. While you download, most others are reading.<br><br>But with the advent of large files being downloaded (P2P being the more popular protocol, but FTP or HTTP could do the same), the usage patterns are now changing.<br><br>Instead of doing what it did for POTS and add capacity where needed, Bell has decided to cripple the service to prevent people from changing usage patterns.<br><br>ISPs for PPPoE, ISPs pay for a switched virtual circuit providing a certain speed to the end user. (for HSA' it is a permanent virtual circuit).<br><br>Now, Bell can do what it wants to optimise its backbone so it doesn't waste money/capacity. But when usage patterns change, Bell *MUST* adapt instead of complain. In theory, Bell is expected to be able to provide the full 5mbps to everyone at the same time, just like, in theory, Bell is expected to support everyone picking up their phone and dialing at the same time.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227718</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:27:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227653</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : Mr Liquid/Quagmire:<br><br>The concept of distributed distribution to lighten the load on the provider of information is older than the internet. The old Bitnet and Fidonet worked that way too.<br><br>NNTP, although to a lesser extent now, was also very distributed. You provided one copy to one local server and that local server distributed it a few other servers and so forth and users around the world would then dosload the item from their local server. The originator of the content didn'T need the infratsructure to support a gazillion people downloading it at the same time.<br><br>P2P is the same principle deployed to the end users who can become servers and help distribute content.<br><br>And you have applications such as SETI@HOME which also use a similar scheme where they make use of resources at the end nodes (end users) and combine results centrally.<br><br>It is wrong to see P2P as a means to distribute illegal content. It is a means to distribute content. With the CBC starting to get involved, and if more and more get involved, you will find that the technology will quickly lose its "illegal content" image because more and more will be dor legitimate content.<br><br>You can also paint HTTP as a provider of Porn.  Before FedEx setup their web sit that allowed you to enter a waybill number and get tracking nformation live, corporations saw HTTP as a useless toy. <br><br>Before Canadian Airlines (yes, they were the first major airline in the world to have a web site) added the FIDS (live flight status) to their web site, other airlines saw no use for HTTP/web sites. <br><br>Now, of course, Airlines have embraced the web to the point where if you don't book your fligths on the web, they charge you an extra $20. <br><br>OK, I am getting to the conclusion now: Just because you don't currently see P2P has a legitimate application now does not mean that it doesn't have a great potential.<br><br>Throttling it means killing it. Killing it means preventing the development of legitimate applications.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227653</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:14:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227365</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1332360"><b>dub16v</b></A> : Are they throttling Teksavvy Biz lines as well???<br>Is it even possible to get a Biz line at home?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227365</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:03:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: GIve them the ol&#x27; one-two</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227317</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : What P'ss's me off to no end is the fact from 4PM yesterday when i actually saw that i am being throttled to right now, 8:47AM I am still throttled. not 24/7 hog wash! You expect me to believe that somewhere between 4pm yesterday and 8:47am today that there's no off peak time in there? I know it's not TS fault but ffs.. This is retarted. And I laid claims when i switched at first this shit was happening to my line, no one wanted to listen to me.. that was 4 months ago.. now look...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227317</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:53:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>GIve them the ol&#x27; one-two</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227277</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Spread the word one and all as this topic needs to reach every level possible... <br> </div>Full Story:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/15395" >www.p2pnet.net/story/15395</A><br><br>"The word is indeed being spread to the extent the mainstream media are now running with the story.<br><br>Better late than never and the coverage has sparked a sharp reaction from Bell Canada spokesman Jason Laszlo, quoted in the Globe & Mail as saying the company has, &#147;every right to limit the amount of bandwidth certain applications can consume on its networks and those it rents to third-party ISPs&#148;."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227277</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:45:01 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227243</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1508357"><b>nanook</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by anonomouse :</small><br><br>Their decision is equivalent to selling you full telephone services, (caller id, etc.) and then removing caller id, because you had too many phone calls.  </div>A better analogy would be, Bell cuts off landline phone calls after a few minutes during busy periods because their network cannot handle the load. If they tried that the CRTC (and the general public) would crucify them.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227243</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:35:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227242</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Laidback <A HREF="/useremail/u/485926"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>almost off topic question.  Is this not the same thing Telus did out West?  Seems to me they  pulled the same crap and then stuck the 3rd parties with cap issues etc?<br> </div>Except that most 3rd parties in Telus territory are resellers rather than wholesale clients. To my knowledge, Teksavvy is one of the few with their own transit out west.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227242</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:34:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227222</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/485926"><b>Laidback</b></A> : almost off topic question.  Is this not the same thing Telus did out West?  Seems to me they  pulled the same crap and then stuck the 3rd parties with cap issues etc?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227222</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:27:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227193</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Who defines what is fair? If you have contracted with Bell and Bell advertised a certain speed that goes with that contract, then you are entitled to have that speed at a sustained rate 24/7.<br><br>Their decision is equivalent to selling you full telephone services, (caller id, etc.) and then removing caller id, because you had too many phone calls.<br> ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227193</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:17:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227003</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1507317"><b>Johnny Cage</b></A> : I honestly hope that those third party isps will band together and do something. This is really a big deal here.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20227003</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:50:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226881</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : I was actually referring to the fact that the customers signed up with Teksavvy and not BELL.<br><br>IF they went with bell at 45 dollars a customer it adds up.<br><br>where as teksavvy is the competition get it?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226881</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:43:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226846</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/740101"><b>psydfx</b></A> : Bandwidth caps don't really play into throttling.  If you have a cap of 200gb a month, you'll still be able to max that at 80KB/s in a month. However the network would not suffer the same amount of congestion if you were throttled at 80KB/s for an entire month.  Whereas if they allow you to download the 200gb in a week instead that would put a lot more load on the network, especially if a large number of users are doing the same thing.<br><br>Think of it as a river.. even though DSL is individual circuits that are not shared, they eventually become shared. It's like a hundred little tributaries on a river, they all converge at one spot and become a river. If that river is a narrow channel, it'll be a raging river with all that water trying to get down it at once.  Now it starts to rain and rain and more and more water gets into those tributaries and try to get into that river. Eventually that river will max it's capacity and overflow.  <br><br>In a data world, it's the same thing, except water is the data and the river is the GigE card or whatever is trying to process that data when it all comes together. The only solution to remedy the problem before you can make the river bigger is to dam the tributaries and build dykes. Or in this case, throttle users until Bell gets it's shit together and increases capacity of it's network.<br><br>It's little to do with the amount of data over the long periods.. the rivers can handle a huge amount of water flowing all the time, it's when you get those rain storms and that river crests.  P2P software is the rainstorm causing the influx in large constant dataflow.<br><br>Now don't get me wrong, I am definitely not advocating what Bell has done. I don't agree with it at all. I think they should of been proactive instead of reactive. I'm just simply trying to offer a comparative analysis for those that don't quite seem to be understanding why or what has caused what is happening now.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226846</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:11:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226826</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/740101"><b>psydfx</b></A> : Your math is a little off though. Since Bell makes $20/customer from Teksavvy and most customers on Teksavvy are probably paying closer to $35/month. That leaves $15/customer to Teksavvy.<br><br>21000 x $15 = $315,000/month or $3.78mil/year<br><br>I think that would be a closer estimate to the profit Bell is losing. But then some of those customers are not on Bell's network as well, so it's probably less than that.<br><br>Not that it matters. It's still profit loss in the eyes of Bell and could be helping them to make the decision they've made to throttle.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226826</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:52:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226810</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : its all about a MONOPOLY they want to control.<br><br>IF teksavvy has 21,000+ customers<br><br>those are POTENTIONAL CUSTOMERS BELL COULD OF HAD!!<br><br>lets do some math Okay?<br><br>lets say those 21000 are average users.. and pay 45bucks a mont<br><br><b>21000customers x $45 ( 1 month ) = $945,000<br><br>945000 x 12 =  $11 340 000 </b><br><br>NOW THESE values aren't with tax <br><br>thats what it is about. its about the AMOUNT OF MONEY bell is losing because of GREAT companies like THESE!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226810</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:39:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226765</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/910861"><b>Rand2k1</b></A> : I see your point just fine.<br><br>I just don't see how it matters.<br><br>Yes it makes sense that ISPs don't want to use any more bandwidth than is necessary, especially serving other companies, possibly even direct competitors data.  Bandwidth costs money, we all know this.  Using less bandwidth = more profit.  More profit is good.  However Bell and other ISPs offer us a specific amount of bandwidth for a set cost.  If they can't handle every user using every bit of that bandwidth every month then they are doing something wrong.<br><br>Whether we use it sharing picture of our pets, downloading music, watching youtube, using bittorent to grab movies, lots of surfing or a truly epic session of ping shouldn't matter.<br><br>Its how much bandwidth we use, not the source or the reason.<br><br>They can't look at things on a best case scenario and go with that.<br><br>Someones elderly grandmother who only uses the internet to check email from her grandchildren and download recipes from bettycrocker.com shouldn't be used to set bandwidth policies.  It should be set by the absolute maximum cap the ISP decides to put on the user.<br><br>If you allow 100gb per month it doesn't matter if you every single user on the system hits that 100gb mark if they plan for it.<br><br>Its planning for people to use very small amounts and then finding people don't use those very small amounts that got us into this mess.<br><br>Sympatico, Rogers and other large ISPs are going about their  business in the very worst possible way.  They offer us a product that a heavy user would want but expect everyone to use it as if they were a very light user.<br><br>Its just not going to work.<br><br>They have to start looking at data as just that, data.  The source, destination and contents do not matter.  Set prices and caps accordingly.<br><br>Multiple tiers of service, low cap low cost, high cap high cost, some in between.<br><br>Say, 20gb/month for $25.  100gb/month for 50 and so on.  Bulk discounts and whatnot, but plan for every single user at every single tier to use the maximum and count yourself lucky when they don't.<br><br>Its like cellphone service.  You pay for your minutes.  If you got 500 minutes a month for example would you be expected to be kicked off or only allowed to make calls after 2am when you hit the 300 minute mark because your abusing the cell network?<br><br>If 300 is the maximum they want you to use at that cost then they should have just given you 300 minutes in the first place.<br><br>Same goes for ISPs.  Don't say I can use XXX amount of bandwidth then further dictate what I can do within that limit.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226765</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:07:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226750</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1437510"><b>KPaul</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://community.acanac.com/acanac/viewtopic.php?t=5584&start=16" >community.acanac.com/acanac/view&middot;&middot;&middot;start=16</A><br><br>Someone is already looking towards a lawsuit...  <br><br>Again, I will chip in whatever I can for ANY legal costs...<br><br>It may not be much, but I want to help dammit!<br><small>--<br>I hate rogers and their CRAP tech. support...  But, MAJOR kudos to the TekSavvy team!<br><br>Al Bundy - "Six bucks is too much money to spend on any woman."   it's too true sometimes :D</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226750</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:50:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226736</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : It seems like all your concerns would be solved by a simple proximity algorithm on peer selection. Then P2P becomes cheaper for ISPs than other methods, as you save on bandwidth. In fact, the locality would a ton of bandwidth on the internet as a whole.<br><br>Multicast would also solve the problem with massive bandwidth savings.<br><br>P2P itself isn't the problem, the particular implementation (and in the case of Multicast, the lack of IPv6 adoption) is the problem. P2P clients should favour peers based on strict numbers of hops. The less hops used, the less aggregate bandwidth is consumed. As in, if I download a chunk at 1mbit per second from a remote host that is ten hops away, I've consumed 10mbit aggregate, because ten different links have to forward my data.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226736</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:39:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226727</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/670456"><b>LiQuiD</b></A> : You fail to see the point of what I wrote.  Thus why I didn't want to get into a discussion on whether or not P2P is good.  I gave my view, to offer a "devil's advocate" point of view on the technology, while still being against traffic shaping of any kind.<br><br>To clarify... I'm simply bringing out a reason *WHY* when it comes to P2P, rather than going the usual route (ie increase aggregate bandwidth), they will stand firm and throttle.  It's the fact that ISP's bear the grunt of the bandwidth for files being made available by others.  Others not being another residential user, but rather, as in the example, CBC.<br><br>If suddenly netflix were to get 8793487 new competitors, and everyone said "to hell with blu-ray" and suddenly the way to watch movies was to stream them online directly from the studio website/server to the end user, undoubtedly, the ISP's would respond by either increasing available bandwidth, or create caps on data to/from the movie studios (or something) so that they can profit from this new form of entertainment.  Certainly, they would not be throttling this.<br><br>We all know P2P is largely used for pirated material (for now), but I wanted to bring forward another reason why some ISP's would rather throttle it.  <br><small>--<br>Windows is the virus.  Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226727</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:32:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226710</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/910861"><b>Rand2k1</b></A> : Who bears the burden of the bandwidth shouldn't matter though.<br><br>Teksavvy gives it premium accounts 200gb cap, Sympatico gives its users whatever they give them now (60gb?)<br><br>Until a customer reaches that level it shouldn't be any of their business what they do with their connection.  Provided it isn't directly damaging to other systems anyways (such as an infected computer being used in a botnet to DOS other sites or something.)<br><br>If a customer hits that cap then charge them extra, kick them off till next month, whatever.  Until that point though they should have no say in what we do.<br><br>When considering a cap a ISP should ask themselves one very important question: If every single customer on the system were to use every bit of their cap what would happen?<br><br>If the answer to that question is incredibly poor network performance, outages etc. then the cap is too high, or the network is underpowered, possibly (probably) both.<br><br>The fix isn't throttling.  It should be to lower caps or upgrade the network.  If it cost say $30/month from every ISP for 50gb and $5 for every 10gb beyond that, well OK then, I know what I'm getting into.  But don't give me a cap and do everything you can to prevent me from using as much of it as possible.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226710</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:22:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226682</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/670456"><b>LiQuiD</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  mazhurg <A HREF="/useremail/u/1000066"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>everything but 80, and even that if it gets encrypted. :(<br> </div>Can anyone confirm this?  I'm not much of a P2P user (I never thought it was a "good" technology) but if encrypted stuff is being throttled at large, including ports 993/995/25 for mail and any encrypted FTP traffic, this can effectively render internet access useless.  Might as well rebrand it "web browsing service" and not internet service.<br><br>That said, Here comes a little (edit: HUGE) rant from a different perspective.<br><br>I always had a bit of an issue with P2P, even for legitimate use (lets all acknowledge that for now, it's still mostly used for illegal content - big broad paint strokes here).  It's basically a way for residential ISP's to pay for the bandwidth involved in distribution of data.  If I'm CBC, and I want to make a show available online in traditional formats, I need to increase my bandwidth capacity for my network so I can sustain multiple downloads from my site.  As the originator of the data, which at the end of the day I probably have intellectual and other rights on, it **SHOULD** be my responsibility, namely from the financial aspect (bandwidth provisioning is not free obviously).  By using P2P, and having it seeded through residential P2P users, the more people there are seeding, the less CBC needs to use it's bandwidth to provide the content.  The residential ISP's as a whole pick up the tab, quite literally, as needless to say, transfers will not always be local.  This is the "issue" I always had with P2P, and why I always found it to be something that when looking at the forest from the trees, can be detrimental as a whole.  I also remember reading about all this extra data going back and forth using more bandwidth still, to support this "protocol"  (I use this term very loosely).<br><br>Now, I am not writing all this to spark a debate.  In fact, despite what I wrote, I am against this tactic, purely on principle.  I don't intend to debate, bat rather, I'm merely presenting a different point of view, to help ensure people approach this in an unbiased manner.  I am including this information so that EVERYONE knows what's involved in P2P, as most only look as far as their nose, and don't see why it's such a concern for ISP's.  Traffic management has been going on for YEARS, and no one ever complained as long as it didn't affect the majority of users.<br><br>I have a mail server running from home.  I enjoy doing sys-admin type stuff and do it from home, as well as work.  When most people blocked out port 25, a small minority rumbled, but in the end it was seen as good for the internet, to minimize all that spam/worm propagation.<br><br>I used to use my laptop to connect to samba shares at home regardless where I was connecting from, and enjoy the ability to have my personal files available to me on the go (usb sticks were not that big then - besides, it's much easier to have a network accessible central location for files).  Then netbios ports were blocked, pretty much across all ISP's.  That's traffic shaping too.  Because it blocked out all that cheesy opening/closing cdrom's remotely and other junk/viruses/worms, it was largely regarded as "good for the internet." and life went on.<br><br>These two examples are established protocols around since way before many P2P users were born.  How come so few complained then?<br><br>This brings me back to the point at hand.  Do not misunderstand me.  I must reiterate that I am completely against this sort of behaviour.  I prefer the responsibility be laid on users, and that ISP's can simply whack their knuckles and local-loop their connections if they can't secure their sh!t. Understand however that it can't go both ways, and that it should be **ALL** or **NOTHING** <br><br>P2P may be "efficient" to the distributor, and apparently to the end user (I still don't see how it is efficient to the end user, as I've seen countless downloads over the years, especially when my brother downloaded mp3's be of poor quality due to the simple fact that it's seeded, and this method can lead to crc errors, but THAT is something we can probably debate elsewhere till the cows come home.  I'll skip giving specific examples).  At the end of the day though, it is all but efficient for residential ISP's.  Again, P2P means instead of CBC (and others) bearing the financial burden of providing online content, they pass the buck to the small residential ISP's.  <br><small>--<br>Windows is the virus.  Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:05:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226556</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1435323"><b>ftp1020</b></A> : Cellular and POTS ... guess which company doesn't stand a chance from now on?<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/20226556?c=1290572&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMDIyMzI1OS54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="80700 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=492 SRC="/r0/download/1290572.thumb600~a55eea7f7c4ec60ee015080722c30e54/NewBell.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:07:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Update on throttling issue...</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226552</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail