Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP in Canadian Broadband http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20225702 en Sun, 12 Oct 2008 08:58:54 EDT Sun, 12 Oct 2008 08:58:54 EDT Re: Good News: the throttle is not applied today http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20267422 UT_CK : Hehe .. Hiya Busyboy,

Lucky you .. I was throttled this morning ...

Got a reprieve from throttling for a small part of the day..

I'm still throttled tonite.

CK
{:(B)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20267422 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:30:50 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20267403 UT_CK :
said by Pepsi90919 See Profile :

form letters are such a piss-poor idea. they systematically get ignored by whoever you're sending them to.
Ah Ok ... Write your own then ! :)
I give you permission to cut and paste/modify/customize any part ... lol

Regards,
CK
{:(B)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20267403 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:28:12 EDT Good News: the throttle is not applied today http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20266247 anon : The throttling is on every day at 4:30 PM. My down load speed generally drops down from 500K to 50K at 4:30 and then further down to 20K after an hour or so. It goes back to 500K early morning.
Strangely speaking, today there is no throttling so far. By the time I wrote this (7:20 PM), the speed is normal. Hopefully Bell has lifted the damn throttling. Cheers for everybody who wrote letters, call MP's and email people concerned. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20266247 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:22:55 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20266182 Pepsi90919 : form letters are such a piss-poor idea. they systematically get ignored by whoever you're sending them to.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20266182 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:09:49 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20265732 Radar73 : I wrote a letter to my MPP, MP, Competition Bureau, CRTC, and Industry Minister. Keep it up people!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20265732 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:48:23 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20264661 anon : Letter sent, we need to take back the internet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20264661 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:10:40 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20256320 UT_CK : 1. The CRTC does not regulate rates, quality of service issues or business practices for Internet Service Providers. The market is competitive and consumers should shop around to find the one that most suits their needs and budget. Consumers experiencing difficulties should contact their service providers quickly to resolve the problem.

... The market WAS competitive until Bell imposed its policies on resellers. Shop around ? Where ? ... All resellers are (or will be) throttled by Bell !

2. If you scan through the these Acts of parliament, the closest you can find to a relevant argument is a provision that states that telecommunications carriers (i.e. the wholesalers, like Bell and Rogers, the people that own the physical lines) must provide to their resellers the equivalent service being offered to direct customers of the carriers themselves, or to customers of any other reseller or internally affiliated entity. Basically this means that if Bell wants to disable or limit a portion of the service that it provides, then it's free to do so as long as it does so globally.

... An who is policing that ? Bell ?

3. Abuse of Dominant position - might be a hook here, but the letters mentioned previously don't address that.

... Even so, The Competition Bureau does not need to be "woken up" to act. It can initiate action without complaint .. if there are grounds to do so.. And there are grounds to do so !

4. A smarter approach might be to follow the path of the Privacy Act, after all internet throttling is typically achieved through DPI (deep packet inspection), and it's arguable that it's illegal to snoop into my communications traffic. Canada Post isn't allowed to prioritize their delivery schedules based on the content of the letters, after all, the privacy act makes it illegal to inspect the contents, and if CPC should happen to discover the contents by accident even, they are obligated to ignore them and hold such a discovery as confidential.

.... Agreed, it does not hurt to attack from multiple fronts.

Thanks for your input .. Very constructive and helpful.

Regards,
CK
{:(B)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20256320 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:50:50 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255767 anon : Please let me start by saying that I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade.

My spouse is a former executive with the Competition Bureau, and thus I've gained some insight into the practices of the Current Commissioner [Sheridan Scott], and the former Commissioner [Konrad Von Finckenstein], who is also the current Commissioner of the CRTC. Both of these individuals are extremely competent, pensive and dedicated individuals who take very seriously the scope of their mandate. As such, they are obviously very aware of what their mandate is and so too should we who intend to cite it for the purposes of our grievances. the Competition Bureau's mandate is outlined in the Competition Act, and the CRTC's mandate is outline in the Canadian Radio and telecommunications act, and is furthered by the broadcasting Act, the telecommunications act, and the Bell Canada Act.
Here are few snippets from the CRTC web site

Rates, quality of service and business practices

The CRTC does not regulate rates, quality of service issues or business practices for Internet Service Providers. The market is competitive and consumers should shop around to find the one that most suits their needs and budget. Consumers experiencing difficulties should contact their service providers quickly to resolve the problem.

Censorship

The CRTC regulates and supervises all aspects of the Canadian broadcasting system and requires broadcasters to comply with its regulations. We should point out, however, that the CRTC is not a board of censors. We do not have the authority to tell broadcasters what they can broadcast, nor can we act pre-emptively before a program has been aired.

This tells me that the CRTC has already decided that they aren't interested in taking a position on this issue, and that perhaps their mandate doesn't obligate them to do so.

If you scan through the these Acts of parliament, the closest you can find to a relevant argument is a provision that states that telecommunications carriers (i.e. the wholesalers, like Bell and Rogers, the people that own the physical lines) must provide to their resellers the equivalent service being offered to direct customers of the carriers themselves, or to customers of any other reseller or internally affiliated entity. Basically this means that if Bell wants to disable or limit a portion of the service that it provides, then it's free to do so as long as it does so globally.

Now on the Competition Bureau side of things, there are a number of subsections that might apply.

Price Fixing - doesn't apply, after all the CRTC does the price fixing for everbody ;)

Bid-Rigging - doesn't apply

False or Misleading representation - This might apply, except that if you read through the Bell wholesaler service agreement, or the Sympatico service agreement, Bell specifically reserves the right to block TCP and UDP ports as deemed necessary for prudent maintenance and security of their overall network. So they haven't falsely represented anything.

Abuse of Dominant position - might be a hook here, but the letters mentioned previously don't address that.

Exclusive Dealing - maybe

Refusal to Deal - maybe

My point is This, the Bureau or the CRTC, certainly aren't going to define policy that doesn't exist, while both organizations have a significant role in shaping reforms to their own legislative mandates, ultimately it will take an act of parliament to effect a change.

A smarter approach might be to follow the path of the Privacy Act, after all internet throttling is typically achieved through DPI (deep packet inspection), and it's arguable that it's illegal to snoop into my communications traffic. Canada Post isn't allowed to prioritize their delivery schedules based on the content of the letters, after all, the privacy act makes it illegal to inspect the contents, and if CPC should happen to discover the contents by accident even, they are obligated to ignore them and hold such a discovery as confidential.

Both the Bureau and the CRTC are certainly interested in being reponsive to Canadians' concerns, however letters that call for either Agency to act beyond the scope of their mandate are easy to file away as not requiring concrete action.

All that being said, Konrad Von Finckenstein is far more likely to try and effect policy by painting outside the lines of his mandate, than is Sheridan Scott, or so their track records would indicate, I think the best first step would be to flood both agencies with letters that simply delineate a concern over the issue. This doesn't allow the letters to be file thirteened, and if there's enough outcry, one of these Commissioners might decide to release a statement of position. Having an agency take a position on the issue, as it pertains to competitive, telecommunications, or privacy mandates, would offer a roadmap or atleast an initial direction for litigative action.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255767 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:23:50 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252164 anon : Sent the letter to the CRTC, MP, MPP, Dalton Mcguinty and Stephen Harper. I know that the latter ones won't care but it only took a minute to send it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252164 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:08:28 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20249410 d5486 : do it for rogers too
they slow down torrents too
and its worse, they do it down to 5k!

this should not be allowed
if they allow this
next thing is the speeds
it s already happening

the slow speeds we have are 64k cable and 512k dsl!! in many countries you cannot even get less than 1M

AND as we all know
japan, europe, USA
all the `delevoped world` except canada is getting much more, for less...

verizon/fios is $50 a month for 20M
fiber to home.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20249410 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:35:21 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244211 anon : I have sent my concerns as has my spouse.

Although the topic for legitimate uses of Bit Torrent has been done to death on this and other forums, I still have to state getting Linux distros and Distributing your own movies through Bit Torrent is the most efficient means of distribution available to someone like me.

The Bandwidth/Piracy argument is garbage.

Seriously why are my tax dollars being used to defend a faulty business model is still beyond me.

At least by Harassing the CRTC I can be assured that my tax dollars are going to something I'm paying for, which is a government agency that will (with a lot of prodding) look after my interests.

I use Acanac as an ISP because Bell/Rogers use Traffic Shaping, I don't want this used on my connection when I'm going out of my way to avoid it.

Also I'm switching my Land line to Tech direct, it is the only thing I have left to take away from Bell, so I'm doing it tomorrow.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244211 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:22:21 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244077 mazhurg :
said by jfmezei See Profile :

not yet been convinced there is a case, but when informally probed has implied there was a string case.
You meant strong?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244077 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:58:07 EDT Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244036 vintagewino : Letters sent to my MP, Competition Bureau, CRTC. Let's hope this starts something to our favour.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20244036 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:51:00 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20243719 jfmezei : When you send your letters to the competition bureau, you really need to be factual and not just complain about it, you need to show exactly how this move prevents competition.

(aka: Bell imposing Sympatico policies on all ISPs to prevent them from offering features that differentiate them from Sympatico).

There is also the issue of ISPs having marketed services that they are no longer able to provide because of Bell.

There is also the issue of Bell saying that measures are necessary because users who download music/videos are impacting their neighbours at the same time that Bell advertises on TV that with its technolgy, people can download music/videos without affecting neighbours.

The neighbourhood pigeon has told me that his fortune teller has heard through the grapevine that the Bureau has not yet been convinced there is a case, but when informally probed has implied there was a string case.

The "advertising" issue is dealt by a different group at the competition bureau, so make sure you put those arguments either in a separate letter, or in a clearly different paragraph/section of your letter. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20243719 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:54:39 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20243504 inferno_gn : Hi there,

"There's nothing greater in the world than when somebody on the team does something good, and everybody gathers around to pat him on the back." - Billy Martin

Good quote... :D

inferno_gn
--
Otaku Anime Network
»www.otakuanime.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20243504 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:17:39 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20243035 anon : I have sent some emails to BCE. Got a reply saying it was forward to exective department. Also got a phone call from Bell, telling me to contact Carleton U.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20243035 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:00:03 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20241751 R0CKY : Ahh... ok... cool stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20241751 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:37:10 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20241743 diskace : Don't get me wrong. I agree that we need to all voice a concern too. Sorry for the confusion.
--
Electronic Box Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20241743 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:36:16 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20241632 R0CKY :
said by diskace See Profile :

Please don't flood the members of the parliament for the moment. I am already in contact with the minister in charge of the CRTC and the opposition.
??? What are you talking about.... IF THINGS ARE TO CHANGE... WE HAVE TO "ALL" VOICE A CONCERN.

Don't mean to be negative with this one diskace, but back-door lobbying right now won't get anywhere. The TELCOs/CABLECOs are too entrenched.
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20241632 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:18:20 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237017 Trisomy21 :
said by diskace See Profile :

Please don't flood the members of the parliament for the moment. I am already in contact with the minister in charge of the CRTC and the opposition.
I hardly doubt he'll be flooded. They actually responded pretty quickly asking for my home address to reply by snail mail hah. And have mailed the CRTC, CBC and The Competition Bureau. Just trying to do my part.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20237017 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:44:46 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235543 diskace : Please don't flood the members of the parliament for the moment. I am already in contact with the minister in charge of the CRTC and the opposition.
--
Electronic Box Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235543 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:00:52 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235296 Trisomy21 : If you're looking for a way to contact your MP you can do so here.

»www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compila···Menu=HOC]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235296 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:27:26 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235055 anon : Here's a French version - not a translation.

«Je viens de prendre connaissance du fait que Bell Canada/Sympatico vient de commencer à "étrangler" (throttle) le traffic Internet sur tout son réseau, incluant les accès offerts à des revendeurs d'accès - tel qu'obligé par la réglementation Canadienne via le CRTC. Il appert que Bell inspecte et gère le volume des données selon leur source et limite le service de façon discriminatoire.

La situation est d'autant plus odieuse que les consommateurs qui décideraient d'annuler leur abonnement en guise de protestation ou simplement parce qu'ils ont besoin d'un service fiable se trouveraient à pénaliser d'abord les revendeurs indépendants sur qui le marché compte pour établir une saine compétition dans le domaine névralgique des télécommunications. Les consommateurs Canadiens se trouvent une fois de plus lésés par les pratiques répréhensibles de Bell.

Il importe que le Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes, sous la responsabilité du ministère de l'industrie et du commerce, intervienne et rappelle à l'ordre ce fournisseur de service dans les meilleurs délais.«]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20235055 Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:49:57 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229366 blinki : sent]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20229366 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:30:27 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226996 Kokanee483 : sent]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20226996 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:47:36 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225775 quickbeam : Sent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225775 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:05:15 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225702 rex0 : I think this is a great idea, also write to your MP as well. I have two suggestions:

a) Write your own letter if you can, it has been suggested that a personalized letter has greater impact--especially if the campaign picks up. But, if you aren't comfortable drafting your own letter by all means use a generic one.

b) Postal mail. Or perhaps email and then send a copy via postal mail too. A paper letter has greater impact, shows you are serious because of the effort.

If you want to send postal mail to your MP it's free. Use the below address you don't need a stamp and can drop it in any Canada post box or at any post office/outlet.

Your MP's Name
House of Commons
Parliament Buildings
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
K1A 0A6

These are just some things I've come across over the years but by all means do something even if it is just emailing the generic letter.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225702 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:51:43 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225689 cricketbones : Done and done.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225689 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:48:38 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225340 micheldc : Done! Thank you for putting this together.
--
Michel]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20225340 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:46:33 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224934 PatrickO : Sent to both. Hopefully they'll notice.
--
PatrickO]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224934 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:29:39 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224894 BliZZardX : Great idea. If anything they'll see an influx of concern for the topic.

I fired some letters at both my MP and the CRTC. Everyone should do the same.

»www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compila···Menu=HOC
»www.crtc.gc.ca/RapidsCCM/registe···es&y=180]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224894 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:21:36 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224828 KPaul : sent!

Would like to send one to my mp as well]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224828 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:10:32 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224173 anon : I have written my MP as well (but with my own letter). We'll see how it goes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20224173 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:19:05 EDT Re: Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222879 anon : While the letter is pretty strong, correcting the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors makes it more professional and more likely to make an impact. Not to be too critical or anything, but here's a small rewrite.


To whom it may concern,

Bell Canada has recently taken it upon themselves to unilaterally begin the practice of controlling traffic on the services it wholesales to independent Internet Service Providers.

This practice is akin to forcing their own policies on independent service providers relating to internet usage by limiting the type of traffic and quantity of traffic they allow to reach these internet bandwidth wholesalers.

By imposing their policies and willfully controlling the use of the internet bandwidth they sell to resellers, they are exercising anti-competitive practices and meddling into the management of third party providers; in turn inhibiting the wholesaler's ability to manage based on their own business policy preferences.

Bell Canada has overstepped its authority and is flexing their muscle (infrastructure control) to impose their will on independent competitors.

I am a customer of an independent ISP and have purchased bandwidth directly from them. My provider is at the mercy of this underhanded tactic being employed by Bell Canada.

To obtain an overview of this situation, please review the posts at dslreports.com and specifically at http: //www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-Canada-Throttles-Wholesalers-Doesnt-Bother-To-Tell-Them-92915

I implore you to quell this unfair practice by contacting Bell Canada and instructing them to cease and desist immediately.

Regards,
Your Name Here
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222879 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:51:02 EDT Generic Letter to Competition Bureau re: Bell throttling ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222104 UT_CK : Send to: compbureau@cb-bc.gc.ca

Also ... go to this link
»www.crtc.gc.ca/RapidsCCM/registe···es&y=180 (hit browser refresh if required)

Fill in your details .. then paste the following letter in your desciption of complaint and submit .. you will get a reference number ... and a response within 10 days ...

Competion Bureau,

Bell Canada have recently taken it upon themselves to unilaterally begin the practice of controlling traffic on the services it wholesales to independent Internet Service Providers.

This practice is akin to forcing their own policies on independent service providers relating to internet usage by limiting the type of traffic and quantity of traffic they allow to reach these internet bandwidth wholesalers.

By imposing their policies and willfully controlling the use of the internet bandwidth they sell to resellers, they are exercising anti-competitive practices and meddling into the management of third party providers; in turn inhibiting the wholesaler's ability to manage based on their own business policy preferences.

Bell Canada has overstepped its authority and are flexing their muscle (infrastructure control) to impose their will on independent competitors.

I am a customer of an independent ISP who has purchased bandwidth and my provider is at the mercy of this underhanded tactic being employed by Bell Canada.

To obtain an overview of this situation, please review the posts at dslreports.com and specifically at »Bell Canada Throttles Wholesalers, Doesn't Bother To Tell Them

I implore you to quell this unfair and possibly illegal practice by contacting Bell Canada and instructing them to cease and desist immediately.

Regards,
Your name here]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20222104 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:25:37 EDT