chrish
join:2007-02-19
Ottawa, ON
 ·Velcom
| reply to R0CKY
Re: Update on Throttling: Part 2...
My anology of what bell is doing would be:
You take a cab to the airport, but only half way the cab driver pulls over and checks your luggage like he is airport security, throws out your bottles, and finishes driving you to the airport so you can actually take the plane.
You complain but the driver tells you he has a right since your in his car, and tells you to f'off. |
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avernar
join:2002-05-23
Mississauga, ON
clubs:
| said by chrish  :throws out your bottles More accurately, he sees the bottles and leaves them there but without telling you anything he drives the rest of the way at 30km/h. |
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jayk007
@rogers.com
| reply to R0CKY
Rocky...this may give you some more things to think about. Here's my latest blog post on this subject. oh BTW...is it Bell that control all those lines the Government laid out in the mid 90's? Any update as to how close we actually are to filling up bandwidth capacity on those lines. I spoke with a CEO of a telecom company last year on this. I think Bell's got other plans here. Blog will explain. I'm also a New Media Producer BTW and use the Bittorrents to release content. I'll be hopefully presenting some arguments to the CRTC on this in the coming year in Ottawa.
»digitialmusiccopy.blogspot.com/2···ity.html |
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Tom2
@teksavvy.com
| reply to eots
said by eots A little thin skinned if you took that as criticism. You were being made aware that you received a response from Sympatico (not Bell as you assumed) that had nothing to do with the 3rd party ISP throttling. They have been spewing that response to every Sympatico customer for several months, it's nothing new.
I submitted my complaints to the CRTC and Competition Bureau as soon as it was confirmed that Bell was indeed interfering with 3rd party ISP customers.
Bell needs to be forced to sell off Sympatico and get out of the ISP business as it's an obvious conflict of interest when they can't keep their hands of other ISP's customers.
[/BQUOTE :Perhaps I am. This issue has me wound up pretty good. However, compare your post to Guspaz' notice the difference in tone that comes through. Sorry I if I offended you by being offended by you!  |
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chrish
join:2007-02-19
Ottawa, ON | reply to avernar
Actually throwing uot the bottles would be correct, since it seems bell might be sending rst packets? |
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Deaks2
join:2008-02-04
Gatineau, QC
| reply to jayk007
This is my thinking exactly. Since Bell is basically claiming that the copper infrastructure, which was largely paid for by tax payers when Bell was a crown corporation, can't handle the load, they are throttling.
The simple solution is for Bell to be broken up like AT&T was, the distribution network being necessary for the public good falling back under gov't control via a new crown corporation. |
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Tom2
@teksavvy.com
|  reply to chrish
said by chrish :Actually throwing out the bottles would be correct, since it seems bell might be sending rst packets? I can confirm they are NOT sending RST packets. Sandvine does that (Comcast), Bell uses Ellacoya. In fact they (BCE Capital) invested in Ellacoya in 2005. See here:
»findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m···14792886
I did some network traces (Wireshark) last night while torrenting at the amazing 30KB/s up and down. I didn't see any RST packets. What I did see was delaying of packets - mostly the ACKs in either direction since Bit Torrent is basically unidirectional on a particular connection. No packets were dropped, just delayed. However, the TCP stack "thought" some were dropped since they were delayed almost 1 second and would retry only to get a TCP Dup back when this happened. Wonder if there's an exploit of this in there somewhere - maybe flooding of ACK packets in a fake TCP conversation? I'm going to spend more time comparing throttled vs unthrottled traces when I get some time. |
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DSL_Ricer
Premium
join:2007-07-22
| said by Tom2 :
Wonder if there's an exploit of this in there somewhere - maybe flooding of ACK packets in a fake TCP conversation? More like treating your TCP connection as a UDP one and use FEC instead of resends. But at that point, it'd probably just be easier to write a new distribution program that uses those features.
Has anyone tried to see if fragmentation attacks worked against the shaper? |
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Name
@teksavvy.com
| If I had to look for a penetration technique against this thing I'd start by looking at ways to hide a VPN connection to tunnel out to a VPS. There are a lot more options to play with if you have control over both ends of the connection.
It makes sense to target the greedwall's encrypted traffic detection because there aren't a lot of ways to identify encrypted material. It's more or less statistically indistinguishable from compressed data. There's no way to tell the difference between e.g. a well compressed JPEG carried over HTTP and an HTTP connection that pretends to be carrying a JPEG but is carrying a VPN payload instead of JPEG data. This trick should get you an unmolested encrypted downstream channel until BellNexxia decides to interfere with web access. |
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avernar
join:2002-05-23
Mississauga, ON
clubs:
| reply to chrish
said by chrish :Actually throwing uot the bottles would be correct, since it seems bell might be sending rst packets? Has that been confirmed? |
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eots
join:2003-02-04
·TekSavvy Solutions..
4 edits | reply to Tom2
said by Tom2 :said by eots A little thin skinned if you took that as criticism. You were being made aware that you received a response from Sympatico (not Bell as you assumed) that had nothing to do with the 3rd party ISP throttling. They have been spewing that response to every Sympatico customer for several months, it's nothing new.
I submitted my complaints to the CRTC and Competition Bureau as soon as it was confirmed that Bell was indeed interfering with 3rd party ISP customers.
Bell needs to be forced to sell off Sympatico and get out of the ISP business as it's an obvious conflict of interest when they can't keep their hands of other ISP's customers.
[/BQUOTE :Perhaps I am. This issue has me wound up pretty good. However, compare your post to Guspaz' notice the difference in tone that comes through. Sorry I if I offended you by being offended by you! Once again the only one with a hostile tone in their response is you.  You made a mistake assuming a response from Sympatico constituted a response from Bell and you were corrected. Anyone who's been a Sympatico customer (as I have) knows how clueless the outsourced customer service is. We're all here to support Teksavvy over Bell's actions, so please keep it civil. |
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chrish
join:2007-02-19
Ottawa, ON
1 edit | reply to avernar
Someone posted a screen of 30% rst packet droppin with azerus's new tool |
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theninjasqua
join:2007-09-26
Oakville, ON
| said by chrish :Someone posted a screen of 30% rst packet droppin with azerus's new tool There isn't really anything unusual with that percentage amount.
--
-theninjasquad |
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tranceduden
join:2007-05-16
Mississauga, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | reply to R0CKY
The crazy thing is , I can't even access my PC remotely via RealVNC , it will connect but then drop the connection after few seconds. No idea if it's related but it started hapening around the same time. Is it because it's a VPN type connection classified as "Encrypted Traffic" which they are also throttling ? |
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lcdguy
join:2008-01-17 | reply to R0CKY
Re: Update on Throttling: Part 2...
Maybe teksavvy and the other resellers should do a hostile take over of Bell Canada  |
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messanger321
@videotron.ca
| reply to R0CKY
Re: Update on Throttling: Part 2...
now don't shoot the messenger but...
This guys blog more or less states that wholesalers like rocky suckles from Bells tites and because he doesn't have his own equipment (radious servers) he deserves what he gets.
he also stated that all those who posted on Geists blog are hysterical (not the first time he states this).
»mhgoldberg.com/blog/2008/03/is-b···nti.html
In his next blog he also states its well within Bells right to throttle:
»mhgoldberg.com/blog/2008/03/tari···fic.html
This guy, in my opinion, is either on bell payroll or a complete moron, or both. You decided (or tell him). |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | You're mischaracterizing most of what he said in those two posts, and I don't find any problem with most of his content. I don't necessarily agree, but I think you're engaging in hyperbole. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
1 edit | reply to messanger321
said by messanger321 :now don't shoot the messenger but... This guys blog more or less states that wholesalers like rocky suckles from Bells tites and because he doesn't have his own equipment (radious servers) he deserves what he gets. he also stated that all those who posted on Geists blog are hysterical (not the first time he states this). » mhgoldberg.com/blog/2008/03/is-b···nti.htmlIn his next blog he also states its well within Bells right to throttle: » mhgoldberg.com/blog/2008/03/tari···fic.htmlThis guy, in my opinion, is either on bell payroll or a complete moron, or both. You decided (or tell him). Radius Servers? Huh.... If he thinks we don't have our own Radius Servers, then he's confused on how this all works.
Also, no, Bell is not within their rights to do this.
PS - LOL... He's not biased ( »www.mhgoldberg.com/MarkHG.pdf)
Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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