Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
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| I agree - F the pirates.
But the problem is the MPAA always goes for the scorched earth tactic and whatever they'll want will certainly tie up legit users like me.
I'm already a victim of piracy by having to jump through activation hoops and deal with DRM. Because of dumbass freeloading pirates forcing content creators to aggressively protect their property, I have a harder time using my legally purchased stuff. |
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supergirl
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| said by Skeedatl  :But the problem is the MPAA always goes for the scorched earth tactic and whatever they'll want will certainly tie up legit users like me. I'm already a victim of piracy by having to jump through activation hoops and deal with DRM. Because of dumbass freeloading pirates forcing content creators to aggressively protect their property, I have a harder time using my legally purchased stuff. Honestly, that is a good argument for me NOT buying CDs anymore with "rootkits" and aggressive DRM I did NOT want on my computer. I personally think backing up DVDs and CDs is okay but sharing across the Net is a different story.
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moonpuppy
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| said by supergirl :Honestly, that is a good argument for me NOT buying CDs anymore with "rootkits" and aggressive DRM I did NOT want on my computer. I personally think backing up DVDs and CDs is okay but sharing across the Net is a different story. Too bad the RIAA and MPAA do not agree with you.
The problem is they want the mile and will not back down. There is no common ground with them. So now both sides are so far apart that they go for the kill instead of detente. |
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RainWind
join:2000-10-20
Van Wert, OH
| reply to Skeedatl
said by Skeedatl :But the problem is the MPAA always goes for the scorched earth tactic and whatever they'll want will certainly tie up legit users like me. I'm already a victim of piracy by having to jump through activation hoops and deal with DRM. Because of dumbass freeloading pirates forcing content creators to aggressively protect their property, I have a harder time using my legally purchased stuff. DRM doesn't affect the downloading variety of pirates.
Currently the war is against the downloaders. Media based copy protection on software and DVDs doesn't stop them as they download cracked copies. DRM doesn't stop them because they download copies that have the DRM removed.
DRM and media based copy protection stop the people who buy it in the store and then make a copy. Or download it through their legit paid through service (iTunes) and then want to burn it to a CD to listen to in their car.
The evil pirates that are causing you problems are the people who usually don't realize what they're doing is wrong, not the P2P bandwidth hogs. Its kind of funny that all these anti-piracy measures are only affecting the people who HAVE PURCHASED 1 LEGIT COPY rather than the people who haven't paid a dime.
Copy protection/DRM just needs to go away. It only hurts the legit people, and it only stops the people who who are clueless about PCs and the internet. These days the pirates have it easier than I do. They can burn their downloaded music to a CD but I can't do that with Rhapsody without paying extra, so I can't even listen to it in my car. I have to call some Indian guy to activate my copy of windows, and the pirates don't even have to type their CD key in during installation.
I don't blame the pirates, I blame the idiotic companies who think these useless attempts at stopping piracy are a good thing. They stop only 1 kind of pirate, and that's the kind that's already purchased the media and wants to duplicate it.
As for movies... they're just trying to protect their failing business model. If they want to cut down on piracy they need to release DVDs at the same time it comes out in theaters. That way the people who hate going to theaters to listen to 50 teenage girls talk on their phone during the movie can rent it and watch it at home. I've stopped going to the movies, because its no longer an enjoyable experience. Last time I went we actually had a police officer come in and tell a group of about 45 middle school students to put their camera phones away and be quiet. 20 minutes later 15 of us walked out of the theater and demanded refunds. They should make R rated movies mandatory 18+ regardless of parental consent, then maybe I'll go to a theater again.
I'm left with the options of: A) Suffer in a theater B) pirate the movie C) wait for dvd. Since I've got netflix I just wait for the DVD, but I can see how option B appeals to a lot of people. I couldn't stand some low quality rip, but I guess for a lot of people a low quality rip is better than an overpriced terrible movie theater experience. |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
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| I absolutely blame the pirates. Without the rampant piracy, these companies wouldn't feel compelled to spend the money they do on DRM and make legit users like me nuts.
But I do agree, pirates easily circumvent these DRM measures (whether it's video, music or software) while I'm having to reinstall Vista due to corrupted activation that won't accept the key.
However it would be a mistake to think that media companies WANT to have to spend millions (likely more) on DRM technology and pirate chasing.
The problem is very simple one. We have an emerging self-centered generation that thinks stealing is okay, whether it's music, movies, software or even wi-fi access. This group has no scruples whatsoever. |
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dadkins
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| Bullshit!
You buy a DVD/Blu-ray.
It gets damaged and no longer plays.
"I could have made a backup and still had the original" - NO!
That's illegal! 
Want to view that disc again? Go buy another one!
Piracy is a fallacy! It is NOT the reason for DRM/lawsuits/filtering.
Money is!
*They* want you to buy a DVD/Blu-ray instead of watching mine(and vice verse).
*They* want us to buy replacements in-case of damage - when we all have the capabilities of *Protecting Our Investments* by making a backup!
Remember, *ALL* DRM and Copy Protection is useless!
Hell! I can copy the whole damn disc... protection and all if I have to!
I prefer to remove the nonsense so I can play and convert to other formats & for storage reasons.
Laptop, play from folder, no need to carry 20-50 DVDs...
Yeah yeah, I know it's "illegal", but I seriously doubt any of you are going to replace my discs if they get damaged, huh?
REAL piracy goes on in other countries - where there are hundreds of bootleg DVDs for sale on street corners.
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
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edit:
March 28th, @11:17AM
| Bullshit!
If piracy suddenly ended tomorrow, you really think that Sony would continue spending millions and millions and millions on DRM technology? You think Microsoft and AutoDesk would continue spending millions and millions on activation technology? No way.
And while dedicated pirates can get around ANY digital rights management, it certainly does stop the casual pirates (who then rely on dedicated pirates to strip DRM) and completely hose legit users like me.
Sony wouldn't give a crap if you backed up your own legally purchased stuff and Title 17 permitted it. But what pirates do is back it up and distribute it. So to stop them, they end up stopping you.
It's the pirates and RAMPANT piracy (allowed by the internet) that has resulted in the huge ramp up in DRM. |
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jsouth
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dadkins
Land of Confusion
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| reply to Skeedatl
More BS!
Do you think if "piracy"(as in downloading items) ended tomorrow, the DMCA would evaporate?
Do you think we would all of a sudden be allowed to decrypt DVDs and make backups?
Do you think AACS and BD+ would "go away" and it would be legal to backup my Blu-ray Discs?
Fuck no! 
Nice try though! 
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
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edit:
March 28th, @01:31PM
| DMCA is about dispersing tools to break encryption. You can do it yourself all you want (from what I understand about the DMCA).
And yeah, DRM would go away. It costs the media companies a FORTUNE to stay 3 steps behind the pirates.
Yeah, Sony and other media companies just love spending millions on DRM that wouldn't be needed.
Nice try though |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
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| reply to jsouth
said by jsouth :They why are companies starting to release DRM free music now? Because not all music sources are DRM (eg CD's), unlike movies which all legal sources are DRMed. |
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dadkins
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| reply to Skeedatl
Currentyly, Fair Use says I can backup my media - But:
DMCA states that I cannot break the encryption that is used on DVDs.
Care to explain?
This is 2008.
Do you know when the DMCA was written/enacted?
Do you know when Copyright Laws were written?
Google it.
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Skeedatl
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edit:
March 28th, @03:49PM
| Easy to explain.
You should actually read the DMCA.
said by DMCA Title 17 S1201.c.1 Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected. :
Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.
If you are protected by the Fair Use provision, you are still protected by the Fair Use provision. You are expressly permitted by the DMCA to circumvent protections if required to exercise your Fair Use rights.
When it comes to Google-ing, you should take your own advice. |
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dadkins
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edit:
March 28th, @04:31PM
| Post ALL of that section friend.
Explain why there is any encryption in the first place, and why it is ILLEGAL to circumvent that encryption.
Why did "they" chastise DVD Jon for decrypting it?
DVDDecrypter anyone?
Why is it that Nero, or Roxio, or_______ refuses to copy a "protected" disc?
Fair Use... right?
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Skeedatl
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edit:
March 28th, @05:07PM
| The section is too long to cut and paste and that was the only portion relevant to the discussion. I included in the quote the exact Title and section (1201) along with the subsection so people can see it themselves.
As for DVD Decryptor, their distribution of that product isn't fair use and the DMCA specificially prohibits distribution of such software.
The way the law is written, it is legal for YOU to circumvent copy protection but illegal for someone to DISTRIBUTE means to circumvent copy protection.
Those companies get busted for distributing the software, but those software creators could use it themselves all they want.
If you read the Fair Use provision, only the personal aspects are covered. It would be analogous to saying you can Xerox your own stuff, but that doesn't necessarily protect Xerox the company in creating the machine in the first place. In the digital world, you can Xerox all you want, but it would be illegal for Xerox to sell the machine to do it. (Of course real xerox machines are legal 'cause there is no DMCA for paper, I'm just using it as an example).
It's dumb, but that is the way it is.
Simply put, if you can, on your own figure out a way to copy that Blu-Ray disc, you are 100% in your rights to do so, both under the Fair Use provision and the DMCA stating you have Fair Use rights. However, it would be illegal under nearly all circumstances for you to share with others HOW you did it. I say under nearly all circumstances because if memory serves there are some limited areas that are permitted, like research perhaps.
Another way of saying all this is doing it (backing up) is fair use. Sharing HOW you do it or sharing the means to do it isn't fair use and a DMCA violation. |
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Kearnstd
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| reply to Skeedatl
i dont think the DMCA overrides fair use though. and if it does i dont give two shits. it is not wrong if i break the encryption on a DVD and make it a Divx for use over my own LAN to devices like my Xbox360 via Tversity.
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KrK
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Blame the content providers. They've been doing this stuff for years, and will continue to do so so, no matter how much or how little piracy actually goes on. It's about control, and getting $$$ from the regular people. The pirates are the ones who bypass the DRM. The regular public is the one who ends up buying the same items more then once.
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KrK
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| reply to Skeedatl
It's the companies... and any money they waste on DRM and tinkering with various bogus copyright protection schemes they write off taxes and claim it's lost $$$ due to pirates.
They'd be better off to drop all the DRM and copyright protection and take the savings right off the retail price. That would benefit them far more then any bogus DRM or copy protection ever will.
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KrK
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| reply to Skeedatl
said by Skeedatl :If piracy suddenly ended tomorrow, you really think that Sony would continue spending millions and millions and millions on DRM technology? You think Microsoft and AutoDesk would continue spending millions and millions on activation technology? Absolutely! In fact if all piracy somehow becomes technically impossible, I expect them to massively INCREASE prices across the board.
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KrK
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| reply to Skeedatl
said by Skeedatl :DMCA is about dispersing tools to break encryption. Nice try. DMCA is about a lot of things; Stopping the flow of information; Taking down embarrasing information with copyright claims; Market protection; Circumvention of Fair use rights, and extraction of revenue. DMCA goes so far it criminalizes any attempt to bypass a protection scheme for any reason, even if you're just trying to get the item you paid for to WORK.
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