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tew1165

join:2008-01-03
Chalfont, PA

Phillies games missing from fios

I wanted to through this out there for all Philly area sports fans. As most of you know the majority of Flyers, Sixers and Philles games are carried on Comcast SportsNet, which is carried on fios. Whenever both teams play at the same time Comcast will dump one of the games onto CN8, which is a regional cable network that Comcast owns and fios does not carry. My guess is Comcast will not allow it to be picked up by Verizon. I don't mind missing the occassional Flyers or Sixers game but now that the Phillies are starting I'm really mad. There are already 4 or 5 April Phillies games scheduled for CN8 and it looks like both the Sixers and Flyers are going to make the playoffs, which means even more Phllies games in April and May will be dumped onto CN8. Does anyone have any insight into fios aquiring CN8, or if not, would Comcast allow games they dump onto CN8 to be carried by Verizon on one of their channels? If anyone knows anything or has an opinion please chime in. Hoping my old buddy FMR VZMAN will add his insight.


Hajman

join:2001-12-17
Phoenixville, PA

Opinion: if having local philly sports is that important to you, you should stick with Comcast. Being on any system other than Comcast puts you at risk for not having that content.

And, no, I don't expect Verizon to seek access to CN8 or some other arrangement with Comcast to show a few Phillies games, nor would I expect Comcast to entertain such an arrangement even if Verizon was interested.


lets456

join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ
reply to tew1165

yes and no....I believe in April (according to the Phillies web site) there will be a few games, but beyond that 99% of the Phillies will be televised through FIOS. Hey, I had D* for 7 years and only viewed 1-2 games a week so only missing 4-6 Phillies games for an entire season ain't bad.

The Flyers and Sixers won't get past the first round....don't fret.

Take that time to go fishing, take a walk or enjoy the family....



GeekGirl1
Premium
join:2007-01-28
Morrisville, PA
kudos:2
reply to tew1165

NHL playoffs are on VS. I'm also missing out on VS-HD, so all Flyers games are in SD, even at home. At least it's carried. Bill Clement and Keith Jones for between period breaks. A consolation.


Hound7

join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
reply to Hajman

Well I have Comcast as well as Verizon and Comcast does not provide me CN8. Luckily I am blacked out for Yankees and Mets on MLB EI, so I am watching the Phillies Reds tonight on MLB EI.


Hajman

join:2001-12-17
Phoenixville, PA

said by Hound7:

Well I have Comcast as well as Verizon and Comcast does not provide me CN8. Luckily I am blacked out for Yankees and Mets on MLB EI, so I am watching the Phillies Reds tonight on MLB EI.
My point was not that Comcast carries CN8 on all its systems. Apparently it does not carry CN8 on all its Northern NJ systems. However, not having CN8 is not a problem for those on Comcast in the Philly region as all Philly region Comcast systems carry CN8 and CSN.

Thus, my point was that Comcast controls the rights to home game broadcasts of the Phillies, Sixers and Flyers and with the sole exception of Verizon carrying the Philly region CSN (I assume only in the Philly region systems), to my knowledge Comcast does not make these properties (or the Philly region CSN or CN8) available to any other service provider. Further, there is no guarantee that Verizon will be able to get its contract covering CSN renewed. Clearly, for a Phildelphia region subscriber (like the OP), being on Comcast is the only way to ensure access to the regional sports content controlled by Comcast.

lets456

join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ

said by Hajman:

said by Hound7:

Well I have Comcast as well as Verizon and Comcast does not provide me CN8. Luckily I am blacked out for Yankees and Mets on MLB EI, so I am watching the Phillies Reds tonight on MLB EI.
My point was not that Comcast carries CN8 on all its systems. Apparently it does not carry CN8 on all its Northern NJ systems. However, not having CN8 is not a problem for those on Comcast in the Philly region as all Philly region Comcast systems carry CN8 and CSN.

Thus, my point was that Comcast controls the rights to home game broadcasts of the Phillies, Sixers and Flyers and with the sole exception of Verizon carrying the Philly region CSN (I assume only in the Philly region systems), to my knowledge Comcast does not make these properties (or the Philly region CSN or CN8) available to any other service provider. Further, there is no guarantee that Verizon will be able to get its contract covering CSN renewed. Clearly, for a Phildelphia region subscriber (like the OP), being on Comcast is the only way to ensure access to the regional sports content controlled by Comcast.
How long is the contract for CSN to be carried or shown on Verizon Philly area? That's the ONLY reason I went from D* to FIOS.... year, years... months?

Hajman

join:2001-12-17
Phoenixville, PA

I have no idea as that information is not publicly available. The deal was signed in December 2006 and covered a wide range of programming controlled by Comcast.

See »news.thomasnet.com/companystory/501159


lets456

join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ

Well I'm sure or hope it's "in stone" and long term, because if FIOS loses CSN, they will lose a majority of their customers. I don't think they would put out tens of millions of dollars and time on "short term" speculation....but then again, I could be wrong.

My guess is the FCC let them "get away' with the Satelitte or terrestrial viewing loophole, but will not let Comcast get away with this as well. They probably gave them a decision of one or the other and Comcast probably figured that Verizon will NEVER be able to provide all the homes in the immediate city of Philadelphia like D* could. Even though they lost or are losing the outskirts to FIOS in the build out areas, they may have much less to lose in the city.

BTW, anyone know what % of the market share that FIOS has taken from Comcast recently? Also, why doesn't Comcast seem to care that people are jumping ship?


MrSpock29

join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ

I don't have fios, but I switched over to DirecTv, so I have a lot of experience with all of this already. I found this post a while back, and post no. 4 is interesting, if true.

»www.satelliteguys.us/directv-for···lly.html

I don't know if that will affect distribution of CN8, if at all, but if true, maybe it does.

I have complained to the FCC about the anti-competetiveness of the situation with sports programming down here, but I doubt that matters. There are quite a number of people here who keep Comcast only for CSN Philly. When fios is available here, people will jump at the chance to switch. I will leave DirecTv for fios tv even if they by some miracle carry that channel by then. I've had an open ticket there since Feb. 1st that still hasn't been addressed LOL (It will be any day now.......any day.....lol)



GeekGirl1
Premium
join:2007-01-28
Morrisville, PA
kudos:2

2 edits

Wait a sec. Why all the talk about a channel that no one watches except for backup Phillies and Flyers games? The problem on Friday was the Flyers were on CSN and the Sixers were on CW-57. IOW, the "backup" OTA channel (CW-57) that is used by the Phillies was already taken.

I only see CN8 listed for games in April. I'm guessing that's due to other conflicts. Check against the Sixers schedule and you'll see them listed on CSN on 4/9 and 4/16, which is the same dates as the Phillies for CN8. No clue why CW-57 doesn't pick up these games, but I'm guessing it's due to contractual commitments. The better choice is to renegotiate for Phillies coverage on CW-57, not to add a channel that no one wants (at least for me).

Don't forget to factor in the TV ratings of baseball in the early part of the season vs. basketball nearing playoffs.

Versus has the hockey playoffs. I'd push Verizon to carry Versus HD. At least they carry it in SD.


lets456

join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ

1 edit
reply to MrSpock29

said by MrSpock29:

I don't have fios, but I switched over to DirecTv, so I have a lot of experience with all of this already. I found this post a while back, and post no. 4 is interesting, if true.

»www.satelliteguys.us/directv-for···lly.html

I don't know if that will affect distribution of CN8, if at all, but if true, maybe it does.

I have complained to the FCC about the anti-competetiveness of the situation with sports programming down here, but I doubt that matters. There are quite a number of people here who keep Comcast only for CSN Philly. When fios is available here, people will jump at the chance to switch. I will leave DirecTv for fios tv even if they by some miracle carry that channel by then. I've had an open ticket there since Feb. 1st that still hasn't been addressed LOL (It will be any day now.......any day.....lol)
I had D* for 7 years and loved them....but I wanted the Phillies and did not want Comcast....Viva la Fios!!!

I still endorse D*...I think it's a good service. I do like FIOS as well.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to lets456

the percentage is published like once a year. its still not near as drastic as people believe. the last statistics had cablevision as the biggest loser with comcast at a few hundred thousand subs. enough to make comcast notice thats for sure. when you figure what comcast lost to verizon you also have to figure what verizon lost to comcast in land line revenue.


MrSpock29

join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ
reply to lets456

said by lets456:

said by MrSpock29:

I don't have fios, but I switched over to DirecTv, so I have a lot of experience with all of this already. I found this post a while back, and post no. 4 is interesting, if true.

»www.satelliteguys.us/directv-for···lly.html

I don't know if that will affect distribution of CN8, if at all, but if true, maybe it does.

I have complained to the FCC about the anti-competetiveness of the situation with sports programming down here, but I doubt that matters. There are quite a number of people here who keep Comcast only for CSN Philly. When fios is available here, people will jump at the chance to switch. I will leave DirecTv for fios tv even if they by some miracle carry that channel by then. I've had an open ticket there since Feb. 1st that still hasn't been addressed LOL (It will be any day now.......any day.....lol)
I had D* for 7 years and loved them....but I wanted the Phillies and did not want Comcast....Viva la Fios!!!

I still endorse D*...I think it's a good service. I do like FIOS as well.
Except for the poor customer service, I like D* also. The pic is definitely better than Comcast, and I like the extra channels. Having said that, I would gladly switch to fios tv whenever it gets here. It looks to me like the Phils on are MLB EI for most of the games so far, even though it isn't the CSN feed. From what I've seen of the free trial, I think I might get MLB EI even if I had CSN PHL.

Hound7

join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ

MLB EI on Directv is well worth even if you get Fios. Almost every game is in HD and they have both the home and away feeds for all games. For each game they have up to four
feeds, home and away, 2 SD and 2 HD.

There is also a feature with the green, red and yellow buttons on the remote that you can access the in game box score of any game at any time, plus the current league standings, and league leaders superimposed over the game that you are watching. Really neat. Never saw this before on
anything.

I am blacked out for the Mets. But since I get SNY and SNY HD on Directv, in MLB EI, I am not blacked out on the SNY MLB EI feeds. Just the opposing team against the Mets feed.

Luckily I live in whats called a contiguous county under the
MLB television agreement and Fios provides me with CSN HD,
YES HD and SNY HD. Directv gives me MSG HD, MSG+ HD, MLB EI
HD, NBA TV HD, NBA LP HD, NHL Network HD and NHL CI HD. Between the two, I can get just about every MLB, NBA and NHL game in HD.


MrSpock29

join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ

said by Hound7:

MLB EI on Directv is well worth even if you get Fios. Almost every game is in HD and they have both the home and away feeds for all games. For each game they have up to four
feeds, home and away, 2 SD and 2 HD.

There is also a feature with the green, red and yellow buttons on the remote that you can access the in game box score of any game at any time, plus the current league standings, and league leaders superimposed over the game that you are watching. Really neat. Never saw this before on
anything.

I am blacked out for the Mets. But since I get SNY and SNY HD on Directv, in MLB EI, I am not blacked out on the SNY MLB EI feeds. Just the opposing team against the Mets feed.

Luckily I live in whats called a contiguous county under the
MLB television agreement and Fios provides me with CSN HD,
YES HD and SNY HD. Directv gives me MSG HD, MSG+ HD, MLB EI
HD, NBA TV HD, NBA LP HD, NHL Network HD and NHL CI HD. Between the two, I can get just about every MLB, NBA and NHL game in HD.
Yes, I decided last night I am going to subscribe via DirecTv, and I would likely still do it with fios. I do like those features on the remote. Down here, I don't get the PHL feed, but I can get over that. Sounds like you live in the best spot to see all the sports, I certainly am not lol


FMR VZMAN

@157.254.98.x
reply to tew1165

Tew, Though it was often discussed, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. There is virtually no chance for CN8 carriage on FiOS.

As such, it would require CSN to provide a special feed for FiOS only - basically, a second channel on the existing direct connect, which VZ would have to carry full-time on a spot in their lineup, since they don't like switching (ironic for a phone company). Most of the time, this would be bars/tone or some kind of slate. I can imagine the hue and cry about wasted bandwidth.

VZ has no good solution for overflow programming in any market but the DC portion of VHO4, where FiOS1 handles it (externally).

FWIW, the VZ contract for CSN is comparable to all the non-Comcast MSOs - and all are basically co-terminous, so that is not an issue. But each spring, you'll probably miss a few games.


robjlevin

join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ

said by FMR VZMAN :

VZ has no good solution for overflow programming in any market but the DC portion of VHO4, where FiOS1 handles it (externally).

In fairness they do have full time channels allotted to MSG2 and MSG+2. Unfortunately, they don't have the HD feeds for either of the main channels. I don't know how DirecTV pulled it off, but they stole at least one customer from Verizon because of it.

Overall, it certainly looks like VZ has make a conscious decision to not focus on sports and have left the sports market to DirecTV.

MrSpock29

join:2008-02-09
Hammonton, NJ

said by robjlevin:

said by FMR VZMAN :

VZ has no good solution for overflow programming in any market but the DC portion of VHO4, where FiOS1 handles it (externally).

In fairness they do have full time channels allotted to MSG2 and MSG+2. Unfortunately, they don't have the HD feeds for either of the main channels. I don't know how DirecTV pulled it off, but they stole at least one customer from Verizon because of it.

Overall, it certainly looks like VZ has make a conscious decision to not focus on sports and have left the sports market to DirecTV.
I wonder if at some point they will focus more on sports. I am not wondering out of any sort of knowledge at all about that, but just because it would seem to be a natural area to build up down the road. They have the means to do it, and the best way IMHO to get the most market share is to offer the most.
Also, I was pleasantly surprised to see the CSN Philly feed on MLB EI for yesterday's game. Probably not a surprise to many, but this is the first baseball season where I have DirecTv and MLB EI. I have to say, I do like MLB EI, better than NBA LP and NHL CI (I had the free trial).

jwdv22

join:2008-01-15
Phoenixville, PA
reply to GeekGirl1

Geek Girl, I am not sure that they are on Versus LOCALLY. I know that the Flyers Caps series was picked up by Versus for their national 7 pm broadcast, but when the Flyers are on I think local to the Philly area will see them on CSN. Which is good cause you get Big Bill Clement doing the broadcast in HD, but you will miss out on some games. The Friday Phillies Cubs game at 7pm is already listed as CN8 as well as the 4/16. But that is it for April


jwdv22

join:2008-01-15
Phoenixville, PA

As of right now the flyers home page
»flyers.nhl.com/index.html
Says the game on Friday is on CSN. LET'S GO FLYERS!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help it.



FMR VZMAN

@157.254.98.x
reply to robjlevin

said by robjlevin:

said by FMR VZMAN :

VZ has no good solution for overflow programming in any market but the DC portion of VHO4, where FiOS1 handles it (externally).

In fairness they do have full time channels allotted to MSG2 and MSG+2. Unfortunately, they don't have the HD feeds for either of the main channels. I don't know how DirecTV pulled it off, but they stole at least one customer from Verizon because of it.

Overall, it certainly looks like VZ has make a conscious decision to not focus on sports and have left the sports market to DirecTV.
Carrying these feeds twice was the only option, and it is done over MSG's objection. The overflow issue in NY is much more of a problem with 4 winter-sport teams and 2 channels.


Serious

@verizon.net

Personally I dont care if Verizon gets CN8 or not. I hate comcast ie teh evil empire so much going to Verizon FIOS was a no brainer. I was prepared to go even when it was still up in teh air as to whether they would care CSN so I suppose that is a bonus. Missing a few games (that I can head to Champs to see) is a small trade off.


magilladke

join:2005-12-07
Collegeville, PA
reply to tew1165

According to the Phillies schedule there are only 4 games this month on CN8. As of now, there are no additional games scheduled for CN8. I realize this could be more if say the Flyers and Sixers made it to the finals, but we'll see!

I hated CN8 while I had Comcast, and don't miss it that's for sure. I'd rather have a Phillies game or two bumped now than later in the year! Go Flyers & Phils.


Hound7

join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ
reply to Serious

Agreed about Comcast. Comcast removed the GameHD channel tonight from the Comcast of Somerset system after providing it through the MLB EI free preview. Very deceptive for a company that advertises more HD than anyone.


tew1165

join:2008-01-03
Chalfont, PA
reply to FMR VZMAN

FMR VZMAN,

Just out of curiousity, why can't CN8 be added to FIOS? I thought Comcast had to offer all their channels to other wireline competators via FCC regulations. I believe FIOS has every other regional and national channel that Comcast owns. Also, once FIOS is all QAM won't there be plenty of bandwidth for overflow channels of sports and other things. I believe you can carry 8 to 10 SD channels on one QAM carrier.



FMR VZMAN

@157.254.98.x

Tew -

There is no technical reason why CN8 couldn't be added to FiOS. It is all business.

You might be confused about the rules. A programmer is only obligated to make deals with competitors when their service is delivered (to system operators, not DBS subs) via satellite, which most Comcast RSNs are. CN8 is only available via a terrestrial conneection - which is done in order to allow them to only sell it when they want. (This is the same strategy for Cablevision's News12 outfits in Metro NY, as well as their MSGHD feeds).

Not wanting to look a gift horse in the mouth, I never pressed for an answer on why VZ was able to get CSN-P , which is also terrestrially delivered (and thus could have been witheld) but IIRC it was because it was part of a broader CSN package that included mostly satellite-delivered RSNs.

As for overflows - the bandwidth is not the issue so much as the operational aspects of managing "shared" channels. VZ has not developed capability to switch between feed sources, as would be required for overflow, or even simple blackout messages. Anything that enters the system at any point (a satellite dish at the SHE, a fiber connection, etc.) has to come out at the end on one or more channel maps.

This is why the MSG2 feed is full time, as is the MASN2 feed in their region. Most operators would cut the MSG2 feed into some other channel only when there are games, but VZ can't or won't do that.

Likewise, if there is a blacked out game which is not automatically controlled by the programmer (this is a whole different challenge which is part of the MLB Extra Innings issue and would require a separate post), VZ cannot put up a message explaining it like another operator would.

All VZ can do is either temporarily pull the channel entirely from the map, or make it a black screen - but they could not route the output from a secondary source that could produce a message explaining the absence of the usual programming, because all they can handle is 1:1 routing of input to output. This is also why there are "wasted" HD services in the areas where the local RSN HD feed is only part-time - unless there is a game, you see bars/tone, or some logo or whatever the programmer is sending.

Sort of odd for a company that started out in the switching business. I can tell you it drives the cable professionals they recruited to run the system crazy.



Bowa

@verizon.net
reply to tew1165

I recently switched to Fios and don't miss CN8 - The reception was horrible anyway. What I miss is my Extra Innings package. Right now I am going through withdrawel without it.

It's also kind of annoying that Comcast right now has more HD channels in the Philly area then Fios. Maybe I should have waited! Oh Well


lets456

join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ

said by Bowa :

I recently switched to Fios and don't miss CN8 - The reception was horrible anyway. What I miss is my Extra Innings package. Right now I am going through withdrawel without it.

It's also kind of annoying that Comcast right now has more HD channels in the Philly area then Fios. Maybe I should have waited! Oh Well
Last time I checked there were different channels but not more channels. I thought the Comcast line was about the same as Verizon....with the exception of VOD.

What concerns me...is all the Flyers playoff games are slated for CSN. When you look at the Phillies schedule it shows CSN. However, the remainder of the Flyers playoff games (excluding today) are to be shown on CSN....why? If this goes on, between the Sixers and Flyers we could miss another 15 games?

BTW, I am very happy the Flyers are doing so well....just swap games on the CW-57....

Hound7

join:2006-03-08
Princeton, NJ

Yeah, but Fios subs get CSN. The Flyers and Phillies are not a problem unless on CN8. In Hainesport, you should get
CSN on Fios.