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iconfat
join:2005-04-06
Toronto
| Well, now I cant get my work emails... Rocky, something has to be done now.
I just logged onto my VPN at work and I cannot use Lotus notes at all as my emails are not downloading. The replication process has slowed to such a crawl that I cannot even get any work done from home anymore.
This is completely unacceptable. | |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... What port and protocol does your work VPN use? | |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON | hmm, it should be faster but it's usually not recommended that you use lotus notes or exchange over VPN especially if you have a big mailbox. | |
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Mersault
join:2007-10-26
Toronto, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Wouldn't one of the primary uses of a VPN be to allow secure access TO your companies Exchange server? I'll bet that more than 50% of all VPN sessions include some Exchange traffic. I use a VPN to access Exchange almost daily. My boss has something approaching a 2 gig Exchange account and uses a VPN to access it without any problem. | |
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LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC | Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... It's only the first download (or if you haven't downloaded in a long time) that takes a while anyway...
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Windows is the virus. Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE | |
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note4u
@videotron.ca | Its been mentioned a few times in the sympatico forum that lotus notes doesn't function well with the bell throttle. | |
| Name96
join:2008-03-28
| said by iconfat  :I just logged onto my VPN at work and I cannot use Lotus notes at all as my emails are not downloading. The replication process has slowed to such a crawl that I cannot even get any work done from home anymore. This is completely unacceptable. What type of VPN?
According to Bell, VPN disruption will not be a problem for business users because no business user would ever want to access their work network after hours.
Upgrading to PPPoE business DSL won't help.
Upgrading to $100/month non-PPPoE DSL *might* help but we don't know yet.
Switching to Rogers won't help as they're doing the same thing.
Basically you can't access your work VPN anymore unless their is legal or political intervention to bring Bell to heel. There is nothing Teksavvy can do about it technically and there is no other ISP you can switch to. You're screwed.
You should tell Industry Canada and the CRTC what you think about that. You should ask your company to tell IC and the CRTC what they think about it, too. | |
| | Tack
join:2007-10-23
Waterloo, ON
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Name96 :According to Bell, VPN disruption will not be a problem for business users because no business user would ever want to access their work network after hours. Which is of course complete nonsense. In fact the only time I want to access work through VPN is after hours, because I would be on-call. If it's during business hours I'm in the office. | |
| iconfat
join:2005-04-06
Toronto | I'll get the specifics of the VPN software and port being used. As of right now my laptop is off. | |
| | justsometech
join:2003-05-08
h3h4h4
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... Please let your company know so that:
1) They may have a solution for you (as other users will have this problem too)
2) SO that they can take issue with throttling as well since it is going to impact their bottom line, from an efficiency standpoint. | |
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NeTwOrKDawg
Networking is a lifestyle
join:2005-04-25
Brantford, ON | Cisco VPN here, Lotus Notes 8.0.1, and well, suprise suprise, throttled! | |
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NeTwOrKDawg
Networking is a lifestyle
join:2005-04-25
Brantford, ON
1 edit | Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Deadpool :said by NeTwOrKDawg :Cisco VPN here, Lotus Notes 8.0.1, and well, suprise suprise, throttled! What speeds are you getting? Approximately 30k or so.. and I know it isn't my employers systems, since I am the Network Engineer for them and handle our entire Cisco infrastructure including our 100Mbps uplinks.
And I would like to add that if this affects any of my over 1000 users, my employer will issue a formal complaint due to lost productivity. | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Deadpool :That way Rocky and his crew can take it to Bell to investigate and resolve. Why should he? His company's network was having zero issues with this, now he has to assign employee resources to fix what Bell has fucked up? Is Bell going to reimburse TekSavvy for this? I highly doubt it.
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GOLF LEAFS GOLF! | |
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Deadpool
Go Sens Go
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-29
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by HiVolt :said by Deadpool :That way Rocky and his crew can take it to Bell to investigate and resolve. Why should he? His company's network was having zero issues with this, now he has to assign employee resources to fix what Bell has fucked up? Is Bell going to reimburse TekSavvy for this? I highly doubt it. So Rocky should let the problems continue until the issue goes to court in 6 months from now? I seriously doubt that's the answer.
I'm not saying that it's the best option long term, but right now there's no reason not to.
And I can't really speak on behalf of Rocky or others within Teksavvy, but they may already be doing this as we speak (they do it for DSL repair issues, so why is this any different?).
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Leafs lead season series 4-3  ...GO SENS GO  | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Deadpool :And I can't really speak on behalf of Rocky or others within Teksavvy, but they may already be doing this as we speak (they do it for DSL repair issues, so why is this any different?). Yeah, but Bell does not knowingly break everyone's dsl connectivity. Line issues are dealt with and repaired on a case by case basis. Imagine the extra workload when the entire Bell supplied area gets throttled, and TONS of people start calling in saying their stuff is slow, and no I don't mean just torrents, but the legitimate apps that employ encryption that people use for work. TekSavvy prides itself on customer service, but in a worst case scenario if most of their CSR's are dealing with irate people with problems on the phone, email, and on DSLR, that reputation will fade away as people with other issues are put in a waiting queue. And thru no fault of their own.
ISP's all over will feel the financial hit from this.
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GOLF LEAFS GOLF! | |
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NeTwOrKDawg
Networking is a lifestyle
join:2005-04-25
Brantford, ON
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Deadpool :said by HiVolt :Another thing. Bell started throttling their own people in November... Shouldnt they have resolved most of these issues, such as throttling other protocols/applications? If they introduce such a dramatic change of service, shouldn't it at least be close to bulletproof? Unfortunately, the one's who did complain the loudest didn't stick around to help me troubleshoot the problem! Also, if none of those who did complain weren't using the same applications that are being brought up now as problematic, then it wouldn't have mattered anyhow. I mentioned this in another thread as well: there are thousands of applications on the Internet and they can all be re-configured in any number of configurations, making it nearly impossible to take into account every single "personal version" of those applications. OK, BUT, Lotus Notes is one of the LARGEST email systems in use, alongside with MS Exchange. And I would hardly consider Cisco IPSec connectivity to be something unusual either.
Maybe Bell should do a little bit of this thing called LAB TESTING on the most common apps before forcing it up the arses of millions of people? | |
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mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Portage La Prairie, MB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·MTS
| said by Deadpool :Unfortunately, the one's who did complain the loudest didn't stick around to help me troubleshoot the problem! Also, if none of those who did complain weren't using the same applications that are being brought up now as problematic, then it wouldn't have mattered anyhow. I mentioned this in another thread as well: there are thousands of applications on the Internet and they can all be re-configured in any number of configurations, making it nearly impossible to take into account every single "personal version" of those applications. Exactly why BCE should be hand off any type of shaping/DPI. You see that, why can't they upstairs? Or they do but really do not care?
Sorry Deadpool, not directed at you specifically.  | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Deadpool :I mentioned this in another thread as well: there are thousands of applications on the Internet and they can all be re-configured in any number of configurations, making it nearly impossible to take into account every single "personal version" of those applications. Yeah, but Bell, the self appointed Judge, Jury and Executioner have not consulted with, warned or said a word to their wholesalers with regard to this. In their haste to throttle encrypted torrents, they introduced a flawed technology that is affecting the entire wholesale DSL community.
Some people are reluctant to help a company who's making their life difficult, I can understand why some of the ones that had issues failed to contact you. I feel your frustration, as I know you are genuinely concerned and obviously helped out those who contacted you.
But now, think on this huge scale. There is no DeadPool of the wholesale division on DSLR. Nor is there a Bell Wholesale direct forum for users to post their issues with these non-p2p apps being affected. How are the users that want to fight going to convey their problems without tying up their respective ISP's tech support resources, with a problem that should not exist?
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GOLF LEAFS GOLF! | |
| | | | | | | | | Name96
join:2008-03-28
| said by Deadpool :I mentioned this in another thread as well: there are thousands of applications on the Internet and they can all be re-configured in any number of configurations, making it nearly impossible to take into account every single "personal version" of those applications. The fact that traffic can't be filtered without an unacceptable rate of false positives is one very big reason why no ISP should be filtering traffic at all. The Internet would not have developed to what it is today if the pioneers in the 1970s, 80s and 90s needed to beg permission to use some new esoteric protocol (like, say, HTTP) over the public network. As things stand today, destroying connectivity for everyone who has the gall to use their internet service for more than web&email is not acceptable collateral damage for crushing the arch nemesis of Bell profits known as P2P.
It's good that you're appearing to make an attempt to reduce collateral damage caused by Bell Canada management but you're only making yourself look like a jackass by trying to defend the indefensible fact that Bell is undermining all competing DSL ISPs. | |
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Flannel
join:2007-11-28
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | said by Deadpool :Unfortunately, the one's who did complain the loudest didn't stick around to help me troubleshoot the problem! [...]there are thousands of applications on the Internet and they can all be re-configured in any number of configurations, making it nearly impossible to take into account every single "personal version" of those applications. Yup, Bell got us, we can't run away anymore, there's nowhere to hide, we must help Bell fix its software...  But seriously, your last sentence really underlines the sad state of this entire prejudicial throttling system, there will always be collateral damage beyond the intended P2P target... (...) | |
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Arbalister
join:2007-11-24
St Catharines, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Deadpool :said by HiVolt :Another thing. Bell started throttling their own people in November... Shouldnt they have resolved most of these issues, such as throttling other protocols/applications? If they introduce such a dramatic change of service, shouldn't it at least be close to bulletproof? Unfortunately, the one's who did complain the loudest didn't stick around to help me troubleshoot the problem! Also, if none of those who did complain weren't using the same applications that are being brought up now as problematic, then it wouldn't have mattered anyhow. Deadpool, hate to mention it, but that last paragraph, to me, reads "when Sympatico started throttling we started to hemorrhage customers faster then we could fix them..." And points to the real reason they implemented system wide throttling. | |
| | | | | | | | | | ftp1020
join:2007-01-30
Canada
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Arbalister :Deadpool, hate to mention it, but that last paragraph, to me, reads "when Sympatico started throttling we started to hemorrhage customers faster then we could fix them..." And points to the real reason they implemented system wide throttling. I've assumed all along that it was all about anti-competitiveness and not about network capacity, and have framed my complaints to the agencies and MPs in precisely that way. The fact that it also affects VOIP (and helps Bell POTS retain customers) is surely no coincidence. | |
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Deadpool
Go Sens Go
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-29
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Arbalister :said by Deadpool :said by HiVolt :Another thing. Bell started throttling their own people in November... Shouldnt they have resolved most of these issues, such as throttling other protocols/applications? If they introduce such a dramatic change of service, shouldn't it at least be close to bulletproof? Unfortunately, the one's who did complain the loudest didn't stick around to help me troubleshoot the problem! Also, if none of those who did complain weren't using the same applications that are being brought up now as problematic, then it wouldn't have mattered anyhow. Deadpool, hate to mention it, but that last paragraph, to me, reads "when Sympatico started throttling we started to hemorrhage customers faster then we could fix them..." And points to the real reason they implemented system wide throttling. That would be a mis-interpretation of my statement. Believe it or not, there aren't thousands of people who are impacted by this or even know that they're impacted by this.
Do you know how many customers I reached out to/pinged me in regards to issues that shouldn't have occured, in this very forum? About a dozen.
And if you look in this very forum at the amount of people who have brought up applications negatively impacted, I believe it's even less then that (right now). Which is what this conversation is about.
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Leafs lead season series 4-3 ...GO SENS GO | |
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eots
join:2003-02-04 | Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... There are more than likely thousands of Sympatico customers who have been suffering in silence because they don't know about this forum and only know to call 310-Surf, which won't help them in the slightest because all they do is script read. | |
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LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Deadpool :said by eots :There are more than likely thousands of Sympatico customers who have been suffering in silence because they don't know about this forum and only know to call 310-Surf, which won't help them in the slightest because all they do is script read. Maybe so, then again, maybe not. Neither of us can really prove it either way. Deadpool, this is in no way meant as an attack on you, but sure we can prove it.
I'll call 310-surf and say "my vpn suddenly doesn't work/my vpn is ultra slow, but everything else works ok"
phone rep: Oh I'm sorry, we don't support vpn, you'll need to contact the IT admin of where you're attempting to connect.
For chrissakes, until a couple of years ago (can't speak more recently as i never deal with them anymore), if you'd call about your modem catching fire but mention you had it attached to a hub/switch, they'd say they can't support your configuration and give up on you | |
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LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... Guys, don't shoot the messenger. He cant' just go do whatever he feels like. For all you know he might even hate that bell is doing this, it's not like he can come out and say so.
That said, good clarification Deadpool I'll even go further and bet lots of people don't even realize they'd be throttled, if they're only surfing the corporate intranet and what not. Also, some companies are moving away from vpn, and using a setup involving http access with login/pass. That would certainly overcome throttling issues | |
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eots
join:2003-02-04
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Actually I personally know many people who are still Sympatico customers who have issues with their service but have given up on tech support. Despite my giving them the URL to the Sympatico Direct forum they still haven't used it to get their issues resolved. It's apathy brought on by years of bad telephone support so they just don't bother anymore and wait for someone else to complain instead. | |
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Arbalister
join:2007-11-24
St Catharines, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Deadpool :said by eots :There are more than likely thousands of Sympatico customers who have been suffering in silence because they don't know about this forum and only know to call 310-Surf, which won't help them in the slightest because all they do is script read. Maybe so, then again, maybe not. Neither of us can really prove it either way. But consider the sample size, here. You've mentioned a dozen sympatico customer, out of those active on *this* forum. In the time since Sympatico admitted throttling, I personally have signed up a dozen people changing from Bell (I run an ISP myself.) Teksavyy has signed how many more? Acanac?
In 12 years of ISP business I've never seen such a reversal of the flow of customers - I'm used to losing customers to Sympatico high speed, not gaining them. And even then, the ones I lose are usually due to misinfomation - they either didn't know I offered DSL or they got sucked in by a "bundle" that's going to "save money." ("Just give us 50 bucks a month more, and we'll give you 10 bucks back! See! You save!" Meanwhile I sell highspeed for 35...."Um...save what?")
Anyhow, on topic. It's readily evident that this move has already hurt Bell in subscriber numbers. And novice to the industry can see that. It's blatantly obvious that this move is to make it hurt the ISPs as well. And by ISPs I only include the independants. Rogers, Cogeco, Shaw, Bell...they aren't ISPs. Not until it's their primary business, and they are no longer the suppliers of essential services to competing independants. | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... i agree but last time i checked i wasn't allowed buying a buisness account for a home as it was zone ina residential area. Unless they has changed... If i wish to work from home i might as well drive to work take me the same amount of time... | |
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PlatooN
join:2007-02-13
Kitchener, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Deadpool :said by HiVolt :Another thing. Bell started throttling their own people in November... Shouldnt they have resolved most of these issues, such as throttling other protocols/applications? If they introduce such a dramatic change of service, shouldn't it at least be close to bulletproof? Unfortunately, the one's who did complain the loudest didn't stick around to help me troubleshoot the problem! Also, if none of those who did complain weren't using the same applications that are being brought up now as problematic, then it wouldn't have mattered anyhow. I mentioned this in another thread as well: there are thousands of applications on the Internet and they can all be re-configured in any number of configurations, making it nearly impossible to take into account every single "personal version" of those applications. which is exactly why your evil employer should leave our fucking packets alone. | |
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Deadpool
Go Sens Go
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-29
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by HiVolt :said by NeTwOrKDawg :Cisco VPN here, Lotus Notes 8.0.1, and well, suprise suprise, throttled! Bell needs to fucking burn for this. And they will, this time around enough stink has been made. Nobody gave a frig when they throttled their own guppies, *cough* i mean customers. That's unfair HiVolt. I worked my ass off trying to get problems fixed that were brought to my attention.
I reached out to dozens of people and only got about 3 or 4 responses from people (and fixed those cases). I can't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves.
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Leafs lead season series 4-3 ...GO SENS GO | |
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HiVolt
29
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Deadpool :That's unfair HiVolt. I worked my ass off trying to get problems fixed that were brought to my attention. I reached out to dozens of people and only got about 3 or 4 responses from people (and fixed those cases). I can't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves. Its not unfair. I realize you're a great resource and I respect you for your help. But what you dealt with was with Sympatico's own client base, and it affected nobody else. I said little when Sympatico started throttling.
This pushed many over the edge, so I apologize if I'm a little ticked off.
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GOLF LEAFS GOLF! | |
| | | | | | | | | ultracat
join:2008-01-30
Toronto, ON
·TELUS
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Soiduts : quote:
That's unfair HiVolt. I worked my ass off trying to get problems fixed that were brought to my attention.
I reached out to dozens of people and only got about 3 or 4 responses from people (and fixed those cases). I can't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves.
End users should not have to 'beta test' this stupid bandwidth throttling filter that Bell has forced upon us. There would be no issue at all if the throttling didn't exist. Solution to the problem: Remove the bandwidth throttling. +1 it ain't our problem. Bell introduced it on their own accord, Bell time, effort and money should be spent to work it out. Besides, we're not even Bell "end users". We're Teksavvy customers! | |
| alec
join:2007-12-24
Ottawa, ON | Any word on Citrix SSL VPN connection speeds? | |
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NeTwOrKDawg
Networking is a lifestyle
join:2005-04-25
Brantford, ON
| said by alec :Any word on Citrix SSL VPN connection speeds? I will be able to test tomorrow, my datacenter in Anjou uses Citrix SSL vpn connectivity. | |
| gord27
join:2005-05-01
Mississauga, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| does it make sense that teamviewer would be affected? i've only used it once since the throttling began but it was painfully slow. never had an experience like that with it before.
deadpool, what problems are you sorting out? specific problems with specific apps? have you heard anything specifically with teamviewer? it uses ssl so i'd assume it's affected just like any other https/ssl app... | |
| | Name96
join:2008-03-28 | Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... Gord27, are you saying that you're getting crippled speed on an HTTPS port 443 connection? | |
| | | gord27
join:2005-05-01
Mississauga, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by Name96 :Gord27, are you saying that you're getting crippled speed on an HTTPS port 443 connection? i don't know a lot about it. all i know is teamviewer was unusually slow the other day. i will update with more the next time it's necessary for me to use it. | |
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andrewhaji
Premium
join:2002-03-02
North York, ON | I can download over HTTPS at full speed, during throttled hours. | |
| Name96
join:2008-03-28
| Deadpool, if you're not going to do something constructive to fix these problems then you have no business posting here. If you're willing and able to ensure that Nexxia loads whitelist signatures for every protocol disabled by the the P2P dragnet, then go ahead and do it. Start with these:
HTTPS on any port
POP3S on any port
SMTPS on any port
IMAPS on any port
RDP
RDP-TLS
IPSEC
IPSEC over UDP
OpenVPN over UDP
OpenVPN over TCP
SIP + RTP
SSH
Skype
If, on the other hand, all you're going to do is sit here and shill for Bell, then go back to the Sympatico forum and stop insulting our intelligence and wasting our time.
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Coridon Henshaw -=- »www.talisiorder.ca | |
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See 14 replies to this post | |
ddurdle
join:2007-03-21
Mississauga, ON
| I use AT&T VPN + Lotus Notes and I have yet to run into an issue with my TekSavvy. My torrents are hitting 450kB/s+ at all hours, so I'm not throttled, yet.
When I was with Rogers years ago, when they started throttling all encrypted traffic in my neighbourhood, I had trouble keeping my connection online when I used the VPN + Lotus Notes or Remote Desktop Connection. I lived like that for two weeks before I tossed in the towel.
I went to Bell Symatico and then in early 2006 the same issue started occurring with them during "6pm-2am only". Whether it be throttling back then or just crappy network quality, they blamed my house wiring etc, even after they sent a technician to investigate and found there were no wiring problems between me and the CO. I lived through this on and off for a month and then switched to TekSavvy when my contract expired. Haven't happened since. | |
| 
jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| RE: various business applicatiosn not working.
This is very typical of Bell. And not surprising.
Bell is a two faced monster:
It runs highly profitable business services with very high prices charged because Bell knows that business will pay for them.
It also runs a low margin residential high volume offering. This is based on essentially the same platforms. However, to differentiate this from the expensive business offering, the residential services are crippled. (no static IPs, blocked ports, no servers, no reverse DNS etc).
WHY ? Because if they didn't cripple the residential offering, business users would refuse to pay for the exhorbitently more expensive "business" services and would move to residential offerings whenever they could and this would cannabalise their revenus.
In a monopoly situation, they do not factor in companies like ISTOP (or now Teksavvy) that can come in and offer businesses fully "un-crippled" connections at roughly residential prices.
It appears that Bell is now waking up to this and wants to cripple residential service so that it can only be used for recreational web surfing. You work from home and your VPN doesn't work ? Get a business line and business service and you can then get VPN to work will be Bell's argument. | |
| | Name96
join:2008-03-28
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by jfmezei :You work from home and your VPN doesn't work ? Get a business line and business service and you can then get VPN to work will be Bell's argument. Furthermore, Bell hasn't unequivocally stated that it will allow third party DSL ISPs provide business grade service at any price. We know that PPPoE business connections will be filtered. Bell has said that non-PPPoE business services will be exempt. We can assume, based on network topology, that HSA accounts will be exempt, but it's not known if Bell intends to leave HSA alone in the long run.
Even if Bell leaves HSA alone, they have created an environment of fear, uncertainty and doubt that undermines the commercial viability of currently unfiltered HSA access sold by third party ISPs. Not many businesses are going to be willing to fork over a $250 setup fee + $100 a month for an HSA line that could be filtered at Bell's whim without notice or recourse. These doubts do not exist over Bell's non-PPPoE services and therefore Bell reaps a anticompetitive advantage by withholding information regarding its intentions. | |
| tranceduden
join:2007-05-16
Mississauga, ON | I'm having probs accessing my home server from work using realvnc on port 5900 ever since throttling issue came up, can someone tell me how to get this fixed ? This is ridiculous to say the least... | |
| | Name96
join:2008-03-28
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... said by tranceduden :I'm having probs accessing my home server from work using realvnc on port 5900 ever since throttling issue came up, can someone tell me how to get this fixed ? This is ridiculous to say the least... There is no fix. There will be probably be no fix unless TSI wins a legal judgment against Bell.
Please report your findings in the »The "what works and what doesn't" thread .
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Coridon Henshaw -=- »www.talisiorder.ca | |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Well, now I cant get my work emails... guys please leave the attacks against deadpool alone he came into this forum to help us not start a feud. I dislike bell like any of you but he is an innocent in this great injustice.
The fact that he's trying to help minimize the damage is a testament that he cares | |
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