rusure
@teksavvy.com
| reply to InvalidError
Re: Official Response...
I wouldn't think you're throttled since when you are you don't get over 30KB/Sec during peak hours.. I think you just have a slow seeding torrent looking at the pic you posted. also try seeding less torrents at the same time, your download may go up some, as i posted below yours i'm clearly not throttled in ottawa tonight, nor was I last night but the prior 4 to 5 nights before that I was.. |
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rusure
@teksavvy.com | oops, sorry you're the 2nd post on that other thread, i thought you where the initial poster, sorry about that.. |
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KPaul
join:2007-02-08 | reply to R0CKY
bullSHIT |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to nanook
>Bell's traffic management no more compromises your privacy
>than does Gmail when they scan your e-mail looking for
>keywords to generate appropriate ads.
GMAIL is a free service and you need not use it if you do not like their data scanning philosophy.
Bell is not your supplier. It is the supplier of your ISP. Bell has no business peeking into contents of your data on lines that are circuits between you and the ISP.
If Bell decides to use the stats they collect on you, they can then feed this to their marketing machine and start offering you packages that are tailored to the type of internet usage you are making with teksavy.
OR: They may look at your history of internet usage and just refuse you as a customer should you have some type of mental disorder and decide to subscibe to Sympatico. |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| One more thing: With GMAIL, you have probabnly pressed "ACCEPT" to their terms and conditions authorizing them to do whatever they do with our data.
With Bell, you have never authorised them to peek into your data and service you at different speeds depending on what you do. Bell is acting as a common carrier between you and the ISP and cannot discriminate based on what type of data is being sent on those private circuits between you and the ISP. |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Videotron
| reply to rusure
This is what my torrenting looks like... it averages out to something close to 30KB/s. The amount of throttling appears to be variable.
said by rusure :
oops, sorry you're the 2nd post on that other thread, i thought you where the initial poster, sorry about that..
When I start really well-seeded torrents, I sometimes see speed spikes in excess of 200KB/s but they crash down to throttled speed within 20 seconds - that's probably how long Bell's throttling algorithm needs to retrain and recognize the new traffic.
Seeing how people have wildly different throttling experiences, I think Bell may also have multiple algorithm variantions in the field. |
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jkajfes
join:2007-10-01
Pickering, ON
| reply to R0CKY
I had a chance to read through the March 28th letter sent out by John Sweeney. It’s a masterful piece of double tongue. Sort of reminds me of the Japanese diplomacy before Pearl Harbor. In the very first sentence Sweeney wastes no time dictating, actually uses numbers, amazing! He said between 4:30pm to 2am... I have to ask which segment of the demography does this represent? 4:30 to 9 possibly 10pm might be more realistic... Who’s the extended customer(s) that’s up to 2am may I ask? And what are they doing webrowsing and/or downloading e-mail and this is putting a strain on their system or Bell’s bandwidth?
Once upon a time ago I was a loyal Bell Customer. Heck historically my grandparents were extremely loyal customers. Then there were my parents who were also loyal customers and I travelled in the family footsteps also being a loyal Bell “subject”... We’re really not customers as I discovered when I started to ask questions about what I was paying a premium for but not getting the goods or services promised me. Considering the fact that in my family tree alone we have almost a combined century of customer loyal, certainly several decades you’d think they'd be more straightforward with their replies or responses to some pretty basic questions. I certainly had no underlying agenda with them. It just came to the point where I wanted the ability to make informed decisions.
They told me I’d get 5 megabytes a sec but the operative key words are “up to”. For years they have done nothing in my area to upgrade the system in areas that would have a positive spin or effect on what I’m paying for. Oh during this time they’ve probably spent money like it was water. For example, there’s expensive fibre optics from one end of the country to the other but that has done nothing to give me a pleasurable experience being a Bell customer. They used terms of “Unlimited Bandwidth, High Speed Connections or download ability” which we now have come to understand really isn’t such so why are they able to still use this terminology other than to deceive? I paid a premium for that unlimited bandwidth as I pay a premium to drink bottle water because I don’t trust the tap water that I’m also paying for in the city I live. I’m told the water is safe but my very nose tells me otherwise. It stinks and it’s full of chemicals.
My nose started telling me that Bell has similarities to my water. I was a Bell Cellular customer, a Bell Sympatico customer, and my Bell land line was historically Bell. I was so Belled up it wasn’t funny, just on the verge of getting their dish stuff. All the eggs in one basket and I wasn’t allowed to carry the basket! Monthly for decades they had no trouble taking my money and on occasion taking more than they should have.
After twelve years I’d had enough with the cellular service and went to another provider because Bell wasn’t listening to what I wanted or needed. They still don’t have what I want or need in this area after being with another provider for 5 years. Then I dropped their internet services for just about the same reason but in addition I was paying way too much for their internet for what I was getting. I only have Bell’s land line still in place but after seeing what they are attempting to do disguised with such terminology as fair usage I will be attempting to get rid of the landline which has historically been the longest running thing I’ve had with Bell. There are options like using your cell phone or VOIP or even Skype I suppose.
What really pisses me off is that the letter from John Sweeey was directed at their ISP Customers not me directly. You know the 3rd party folks who CAN provide end-user customers like myself and thousands of others with goods and services at fair price that far exceed what Bell has doled out to me over the years and who in some cases don’t have their executive offices located on metropolis expensive real estate.
Bell has destructively and after the fact informed them that they are going to traffic manage their connections, sort of basically run their businesses for them! Now it they can do this to one subset of customers what would make me or anyone else think that they are honestly looking after my best interest. They couldn’t when they had me as a direct customer and now they’re going to screw me through a 3rd party who up until Bell started this nonsense was giving me what Bell couldn’t for years and years.
They’ve convinced their own direct customers that we are the ones that lay at the root of the bandwidth problems and high speed issues, never mind the the fact that I’m Paying a Premium for the extra high speed mps and that I’m paying a Premium for the unlimited download ability. All I’ve ever asked for is exactly what I was paying for, nothing more and certainly nothing less.
When I called Bell to air my complaints. Their front line staff wanted to sell me a completely new product as if that was going to be the solution. It’s called WiMAX? I asked for very specific information on the product but wasn’t given anything specific. It’s so new nobody at Bell or certainly they’re front line sales people aren’t up to speed on it. They can’t even tell me the manufacturer of the hardware unit or device they employ, the types of physical connections on the hardware device and I’m supposed to made an informed decision on getting locked into probably a two year contract?
It’s simply mind boggling but typical of what’s been going on with Bell for a number of years now. I have one device called a Speeetouch modem that has wireless capability, 4 hard ports on the back and two voip ports. It’s fast and it’s efficient and it’s one single device... Can the new WiMax device compete with it? Bell doesn’t know but I’m told it’s my answer or solution to my problem.
Bullshit....
Regards. |
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DrXenon
join:2007-01-20
Kingston, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| You don't want wimax - it won't be as reliable as your hard line and it's capped at 3 Mbps even though the 64-QAM modulation will support Gbps if you're sufficiently close to the base station. Transfer caps are inevitable on wimax even if they're not enforced at this time; it's a shared wireless channel unlike your DSL line. |
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bunchofbscrap
@ody.ca | reply to R0CKY
yestrerday i wasw playing some fifa via ps3
online
freeking horrible man,
does this crap have incluence on gaming?
doesn't gaming work like p2p in some sort of way? |
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TSI Jason
Premium
join:2007-10-19
3 edits | said by bunchofbscrap :
yestrerday i wasw playing some fifa via ps3
online
freeking horrible man,
does this crap have incluence on gaming?
doesn't gaming work like p2p in some sort of way?
I've heard some customers say that is effects Xbox live.
Though I'm not sure the full effect or whether its just people telling me things :P.
[EDIT] I do know my WoW updater is going incredibly slow though, probably going to have to get the new patch from Fileplanet
Regards,
Jason |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | :P working late on a sunday? :| |
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TSI Jason
Premium
join:2007-10-19
| said by Angelo_  ::P working late on a sunday? :| Yup, done in about an hour, wanna play some TF2? |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by TSI Jason :said by Angelo_ ::P working late on a sunday? :| Yup, done in about an hour, wanna play some TF2? sure im always up for tf2 =p get david in also  |
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TSI Jason
Premium
join:2007-10-19
1 edit | David has to work at 8am he will be snoring like a diesel engine lol
[Edit] Send me a PM, I dont want to derail this thread |
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Angelo_
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18 | you know you can help him with that snoring issue
»www.nahanniriverherbs.com/141 |
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jibby
@teksavvy.com
| reply to R0CKY
What i still don't quite understand is how Nexxia can manage Teksavvy's internet access when that's not what they sell to them them.
I mean, say Teksavvy didn't sell DSL, they came up with an IPTV solution and were buying the GAS to service some kind of TV terminal to their customers. One channel on that IPTV is say a higher quality - and is using more bandwidth. Could Nexxia legally justify installing shaping boxes that would block and/or degrade the quality of that TV channel?
And is what they're doing right now any different? |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei :>Bell's traffic management no more compromises your privacy>than does Gmail when they scan your e-mail looking for >keywords to generate appropriate ads. Bell is not your supplier. It is the supplier of your ISP. Bell has no business peeking into contents of your data on lines that are circuits between you and the ISP. How does this "compromise your privacy"?
If Bell decides to use the stats they collect on you, they can then feed this to their marketing machine and start offering you packages that are tailored to the type of internet usage you are making with teksavy. Great! If Bell wants to offer me a package "tailored to the type of internet usage you are making" then bring it on. Competition is good. Let Bell see that I use a lot of bandwidth for which I pay TSI $30/month. I look forward to an offer from Bell for [truly] unlimited and unthrottled bandwidth for under $30/month. Don't you? Don't we all?
They may look at your history of internet usage and just refuse you as a customer should you have some type of mental disorder and decide to subscibe to Sympatico. I can live with that risk since the probability of my returning to Sympatico is less than zero.
My point is that in this debate privacy is a red herring.
With Bell, you have never authorised them to peek into your data and service you at different speeds depending on what you do. First, Bell's contention is that they have the right (and obligation/duty to all Internet users, including us) to manage traffic, e.g. by throttling those they deem to be disrupting others. Those are their positions, not necessarily yours or mine. (That, after all, is why we have a dispute.)
Second, you and I may never have authorized them, however, we are not their customer. Their customer is TSI et al 3rd party ISPs. What have those ISPs consented to in their contracts with Bell? (And if you are going to argue that you never authorized TSI to "peek" at your data, etc. then your beef is with TSI, not Bell.)
Bell is acting as a common carrier between you and the ISP and cannot discriminate based on what type of data is being sent on those private circuits between you and the ISP. Please point us to legislation/regulations that have designated Bell as a common carrier for Internet service. By doing so you'll save Rocky more in legal bills than we could possibly hope to raise on this forum by "passing the hat around." AFAIK Bell (and Rogers) are able to throttle precisely because they are not common carriers in this context. But then again IANAL.
Look, I am not happy about what Bell is doing. I left Sympatico for TSI in large part because they were throttling me. I also took several family members with me even though they are not affected by throttling. I have been actively encouraging others that they do likewise even if they are not affected by throttling. (FWIW yesterday I had two such conversations with friends. Let me tell you that it is tough to make an argument for switching when the subscriber does not do filesharing and is not affected. But I digress...)
The reason I am taking you to task is because I want to make sure that the arguments TSI uses with Bell are valid. From what I have read in the past couple of weeks TSI et al have a strong enough case against Bell without having to resort to red herrings such as privacy. |
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An Onymous
@teksavvy.com
| reply to jibby
said by jibby :I mean, say Teksavvy didn't sell DSL, they came up with an IPTV solution and were buying the GAS to service some kind of TV terminal to their customers. This is what I found on Ellacoya Networks's website: (The vendor we think Bell is using for DPI)
»www.arbornetworks.com/en/arbor-n···s-3.html
Arbor Networks... announced today that it has completed its acquisition of Ellacoya Networks...
The new Arbor provides intelligent visibility across the network (from core to broadband edge) and protection from network threats (routing issues, DDoS attacks, high bandwidth consuming applications like P2P, and VoD).
VoD == Video on Demand. This is seen as a threat too!! Bell have you covered.  |
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mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Portage La Prairie, MB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·MTS
| reply to nanook
said by nanook :said by jfmezei :>Bell's traffic management no more compromises your privacy>than does Gmail when they scan your e-mail looking for >keywords to generate appropriate ads. Bell is not your supplier. It is the supplier of your ISP. Bell has no business peeking into contents of your data on lines that are circuits between you and the ISP. How does this "compromise your privacy"? If Bell decides to use the stats they collect on you, they can then feed this to their marketing machine and start offering you packages that are tailored to the type of internet usage you are making with teksavy. Great! If Bell wants to offer me a package "tailored to the type of internet usage you are making" then bring it on. Competition is good. Let Bell see that I use a lot of bandwidth for which I pay TSI $30/month. I look forward to an offer from Bell for [truly] unlimited and unthrottled bandwidth for under $30/month. Don't you? Don't we all? Look further. What happen, when through this, no competitors are left? |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by mazhurg :Look further. What happen, when through this, no competitors are left? Then we will have the CRTC to protect our interests 
But seriously, I am just responding to jfmezei 's argument that Bell uses DPI as a marketing tool and/or that they use it to invade our privacy. There is no evidence that they are.
BTW someone who naively looks at TSI's business model, where they pay 2/3 of their revenue to Bell for POTS and then have to provide everything (plus more, e.g. 200GB unthrottled, competetent support and administration) that Sympactico (supposedly) provides for a mere $10/month, might conclude that TSI is doomed. Obviously Rocky and crew have proven such conclusions false. "Little guys" can compete with dinosaurs a lot better than most of us are willing to give them credit for. |
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