 nekkidtruthYou fail at life.Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
2 edits | reply to Stewy
Re: Throttling will continue with Rogers' new usage plans said by Stewy:said by nekkidtruth:You are still not understanding the issue. You still don't seem to be able to answer some core questions. You seem to have blinders on a say that it's all the hardware's fault and with limited upstream and no one else understands. Allot of claims but you can't substantiate any of it. Who is the one with blinders? *I* understand the technology, therefore I understand the limitations of the technology. You on the other hand, don't appear to understand the technology. I've explained it to you in laymen terms. If you're not willing to educate yourself (ie. Read about cable technology and why the upstream is limited), you can't expect to be spoon fed everything. Put some effort in.
You keep quoting speeds of everything including DSL. You keep quoting scenerios that are DSL related. You keep saying there are no issues with downloading etc. It is clear you're either not reading my posts, or completely ignoring them as I have already explained twice now that this issue is a.) inherent to cable ONLY and b.) an issue with upstream not downstream.
As for video conferencing, there is only 1 upstream connection created. With most P2P software, especially bit torrents, there are tens or hundreds of connections being made completely saturating the upstream causing it to impede downstream.
If you still don't understand, go read.
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| reply to FFFF
Just tossing in my 2 cents.
Is the cable specs the problem with upload? (Partially), Rogers is keeping upstream channels back in reserve (smart idea).
With that said however the cable companies (Rogers) have been the SLOWEST IN THE WORLD at realizing people want to send data.
These is nothing limiting rogers upload EXCEPT ROGERS!! I'm sorry but they feel using 8 year old technology is 'good enough' and then dare to charge more for it?
Everyone else in the world in the past 8 years has updated their technology to follow the market rogers HAS NOT!!
They merely have been slowly spoon-feeding us this old horrible tech. There is no reason that in 6 months time they could not EASILY design their own cable specs, or pickup DOCSIS 3 or whatever its called, fix it up for thier use and implement it.
No reason at all except greed, and they get people like the above poster defending them.
ITS NOT OUR FAULT THEIR TECH IS OLD AND/OR CRAPPY. |
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 sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Actually where they are right now is about 4 year old and DOCSIS 3 specs have not been finalized so there's no current production modems or CMTS units that are guaranteed to work when the final specs are released. You can't upgrade to something that doesn't exist. And 6 years ago much of the network was on out of date technology by Motorola, Terayon and LANCity ... so Rogers has done a considerable amount of upgrading in that time and it's expensive.
Designing their own data over cable is a very expensive proposition and why should they reinvent the wheel ... several companies producing this hardware have already gone out of the business, such as Ericsson and Toshiba. I can assure you that Rogers, like most cable companies does not have their own R&D departments for this kind of stuff ... it's not worth it when you have Cisco and Motorola and Terayon and Scientific Atlanta out there all working with the industry standards group Cable Labs. This is where DOCSIS came from. |
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nekkidtruthYou fail at life.Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
1 edit | reply to Arcturus
said by Arcturus :
Just tossing in my 2 cents.
Is the cable specs the problem with upload? (Partially), Rogers is keeping upstream channels back in reserve (smart idea).
With that said however the cable companies (Rogers) have been the SLOWEST IN THE WORLD at realizing people want to send data.
These is nothing limiting rogers upload EXCEPT ROGERS!! I'm sorry but they feel using 8 year old technology is 'good enough' and then dare to charge more for it?
Everyone else in the world in the past 8 years has updated their technology to follow the market rogers HAS NOT!!
They merely have been slowly spoon-feeding us this old horrible tech. There is no reason that in 6 months time they could not EASILY design their own cable specs, or pickup DOCSIS 3 or whatever its called, fix it up for thier use and implement it.
No reason at all except greed, and they get people like the above poster defending them.
ITS NOT OUR FAULT THEIR TECH IS OLD AND/OR CRAPPY.
Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Rogers shouldn't upgrade. Nor am I saying it isn't Rogers fault. What I am saying is that Rogers is using hardware that is limited when using upstream. It's just the reality of it.
No one is agreeing with Rogers practices here.
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 StewyPremium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON | reply to Stewy
said by nekkidtruth:I've explained it to you in laymen terms. You haven't explained anything, basically it's an upstream problem, we're all nitwits and we need to go and read. Nothing you have said can be substantiated.
said by nekkidtruth:*I* understand the technology, therefore I understand the limitations of the technology. this issue is a.) inherent to cable ONLY and b.) an issue with upstream not downstream. If you understand the technology, please explain to us why there is a need to throttle the downstream. |
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nekkidtruthYou fail at life.Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
1 edit | said by Stewy:You haven't explained anything, basically it's an upstream problem, we're all nitwits and we need to go and read. Nothing you have said can be substantiated. Sure I have. If you're unable to understand what I have explained, that is your responsibility. Not mine. I have already explained the issues with the technology. Either catch up on some reading to better understand how the technology works, or stop talking about it.
said by Stewy:If you understand the technology, please explain to us why there is a need to throttle the downstream. Because of the number of connections that can be made using P2P software, throttling the entire connection is required. If you can't download properly, you in effect, can't upload properly. The more upload intensive P2P'ing like bit torrents suffer if your upload doesn't work properly. So in some cases, throttling upload is sufficient.
The information I provide is substantiated in the technical specifications for specific hardware used when running cable Internet access. If you're too lazy to read it, doesn't make it non-existent. So yes, it is substantiated, you just refuse to acknowledge it.
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| reply to FFFF
I started on Rogers with the Zenith Modems back in 1995.
At that time my maximum upstream was 384k
(Now granted it was 384k shared up/down stream)
Today (on my regular package) my maximum upstream is 384k
Almost 13 years... 13 years and my upstream has remained the same.
On top of all that they are saying I'm using too much upstream now! Nuff said ... |
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sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4 | You're on 384k because you're not on Extreme or E+ but you're on that speed still because the bandwidth limitations on the upstream have been in place for that long. It has taken years to come up with ways to increase the upstream. |
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| reply to FFFF
So dsl providers(bell) once they upgrade to current tech wont need to throttle their upload anymore? I'm sure they'll still have caps to make money, but why throttle if you dont need to right?
Bell seems so far behind Rogers development wise. No Gsm wireless, and outdated dsl |
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nekkidtruthYou fail at life.Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| said by gurn :
So dsl providers(bell) once they upgrade to current tech wont need to throttle their upload anymore? I'm sure they'll still have caps to make money, but why throttle if you dont need to right?
Bell seems so far behind Rogers development wise. No Gsm wireless, and outdated dsl
You would be incorrect in this assessment. Especially since Bell currently doesn't have a reason, from a technical standpoint anyway, to throttle right now, but they still do.
They're doing it because they can get away with it. For all intents and purposes Bell could disable throttling and claim they are throttle/cap free and most Rogers customers would flee. The reason they won't do that is because they are trying to LOSE customers. If they lose a specific amount of customers, they can put themselves into a position to become unregulated.
Anyone who knows what's going on in the industry, and has a keen enough eye (not even really) can see what happening. Bell doesn't want to be regulated anymore. Best way to do that is to show the government that they are losing enough customers. Best way to lose customers? Alienate them. Not just their own customers (Sympatico). But why not alienate them even if they're on a wholesalers account? Piss them off so good they won't want to come back to Bell. Boom, Bell gets deregulated for creating the illusion that they are losing customers to competition.
But now I'm rambling 
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StewyPremium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON
1 edit | reply to FFFF
said by nekkidtruth:Because of the number of connections that can be made using P2P software, throttling the entire connection is required. If you can't download properly, you in effect, can't upload properly. I dare anyone to goto the Dashboard on Vuze and d/l anything, and please come back here and report back on your speeds. I just downloaded the Batman trailer with 9 connections at over 900Kbps. Again your point makes no sense and doesn't stand but my proof is right there for anyone to check. I'm done replying to you, I've shown proof, reason and motive and yes I understand that there is a "limit" to the upstream but for the rest there is no rationale other than the motives behind it.
On a side note, yesterday with the latest update of Azeurus I was able to torrent a 400Mb file between 200-300Kbps with a 15Kbps upload with 90 connections. Right now I'm downloading a 350Mb torrent at about 100-200Kbps but with 25 connections. It seems that the more seeders you have the better it is. For ex. 25/100Kbps 50/200Kps and 75/300Kps. So at least P2P doesn't seem to be locked at 30Kbps. But if anyone knows Rogers that may not last.
Does anyone want to see how insane this whole situation is.....
»your.rogers.com/business/internet/dsl.asp
"Rogers offers attractively priced, high-bandwidth Internet DSL services."
"ensuring high-performance and guaranteed quality."
"offering speeds from 1.5Mpbs to 5Mbps download and 480kbps to 1Mbps upload"
"Unlimited data transfer allowed"
"ensuring efficient paths whether your traffic is going across the country or around the world"
"guaranteeing network performance"
They forgot to say however that P2P is severely limited, blocked, crippled, throttled and that we just can't handle that technology and if you ask questions about it you're a lazy nitwit and don't understand.
said by nekkidtruth:Anyone who knows what's going on in the industry, and has a keen enough eye (not even really) can see what happening. You've got to be kidding. |
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nekkidtruthYou fail at life.Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| said by Stewy:I'm done replying to you, I've shown proof, reason and motive and yes I understand that there is a "limit" to the upstream but for the rest there is no rationale other than the motives behind it. Then stop replying to me. Your proof isn't really proof at all. There are only a couple of different reasons you're even getting speeds like you are. Either throttling has been pulled back in your area (not uncommon) or your software is circumventing the throttling hardware (also not uncommon. I currently get nice torrent speeds when I even use torrents.).
You on the other hand, still have no grasp of the technology. So, no, I don't have to "prove" anything to you. *I* know about the technology. Just because you refuse to educate yourself, doesn't mean I'm wrong.
You've got to be kidding.
Not at all. You're basing all of your assumptions on the software you are using. You know nothing about the hardware, nor how it works. You've made this evident in your postings. You also repeatedly quote and link to DSL related content, which has NOTHING to do with cable Internet and or it's technologies. You can't even differentiate the two, yet you expect me to believe you know better than those of us who actually work in the industry? Get a grip.
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