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Forums » O Canada! » Canadian » TekSavvy » How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others
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Virgin Media CEO attacks net neutrality »
« What is: ADSL High Speed Internet (Non-PPPOE) ?  
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darcmage

join:2005-10-07
Toronto, ON
reply to TSI Gabe
Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.


shikotee

join:2007-01-11
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico

reply to hehehehe
said by hehehehe :

Things here seem to hit the media pretty damn quick as of late.
Which is a good thing. Hopefully they are developing an understanding of the differences in transparency between Bell and Teksavvy.

David is much more open and forthright.
Goliath is more secretive and manipulative.

ddurdle

join:2007-03-21
Mississauga, ON


1 edit
reply to TSI Gabe
I don't understand the comment about the first graph (the big blip). The big blip occurs between 2am and 12pm, outside of throttling hours. This only demonstrates that there isn't much demand during those hours, something the other graphs already confirm.


Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
reply to TSI Gabe
I think it's pretty amusing to see what portion of the traffic is P2P, since it proves that all the ISP's rationale for throttling are nothing but a bunch of lies and that we have been lied to from the very beginning.


JayMan
Whoot
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Earth
reply to TSI Gabe
Gabe, are you able to post pre-throttling graphs.

Name96

join:2008-03-28

reply to darcmage
said by darcmage See Profile :

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.
The only way they can continue to say it without lying is if they don't know what traffic is going over their network. This would merely mean that they're incompetent rather than dishonest.


JayMan
Whoot
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Earth
·TekSavvy Solutions..

reply to TSI Gabe
The big upspike in this picture shows what happens when the throttling is turned off. Keep in mine it doesn't always go off at 2am.

cacruden

join:2008-03-18
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..

reply to darcmage
said by darcmage See Profile :

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.


In the end, most traffic is P2P - so no Bell is not lying.... Personally I rarely use broadcast functions....


Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

reply to Name96
said by Name96 See Profile :

The only way they can continue to say it without lying is if they don't know what traffic is going over their network. This would merely mean that they're incompetent rather than dishonest.
If they're saying that 70-90% of their network traffic is P2P when it is actually more like 20-30%, that is beyond incompetent.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.


reallyconfused

@teksavvy.com

reply to cacruden
said by cacruden See Profile :

said by darcmage See Profile :

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.


In the end, most traffic is P2P - so no Bell is not lying.... Personally I rarely use broadcast functions....
In the end most traffic is P2P? Looks to me like UDP has P2P creamed by far...

Name96

join:2008-03-28

reply to twizlar
said by twizlar See Profile :

Yeah thats what amazed me, everything is pretty much being modified, hence all the traffic spikes. Scary.
No, the traffic spikes are because the 'yesterday' graph has a different scale. The larger scale of the 'week ago' graph makes spikes less visible.

Note the peak traffic throughput a week ago was a pixel over 160Mbps while peak throughput yesterday was a little over 50Mbps. If these graphs are accurate, Bell has cut Teksavvy's traffic to about a third of its former volume even outside of the hours where P2P and encrypted traffic is degraded.

I question the accuracy of the traffic flow graphs, however. Slicing everything by two thirds 24/7 would have been noticed by everyone.

BozoTheCl0wn

join:2005-04-01
H0H0H0

reply to TSI Gabe
said by TSI Gabe See Profile :

DNS uses UDP
Yes but your graph has a separate color for DNS...

The three graphs obviously don't represent the same portion of your network. The first one is in the Gbps while the other two barely go over 100Mbps. If Bell only throttles P2P then your two colored graphs make no sense especially considering several reports of people experiencing full HTTP/NTTP/etc. speeds while P2P being stuck in the low 10's of kbps.

BTW, your "blip" is about 450-500Mbps, nowhere near 1Gpbs as you stated (or did you add in+out?).


TSI Gabe
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Chatham, ON
It's a netflow graph. Only a certain percentage of the data is collected. But it still represents a global view of the network.
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.


TSI Gabe
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Chatham, ON
We should be peaking at 3gbps. We aren't anywhere close to it now.
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.

DarkStar33

join:2008-03-27
Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..


1 edit
reply to BozoTheCl0wn
The graph "looks" the same but take a look at the numbers on the side. Thats the important part.

Last weeks UDP traffic alone is pretty close to the total amount of traffic flowing through the pipes now.

I feel bad for your call center people because I am sure they are fielding complains. Bring them a coffee or buy them lunch, I remember what it was like to be in there position.

Perhaps a breakdown of how TSI classifies traffic by protocol would be helpful to foster understanding.

BozoTheCl0wn

join:2005-04-01
H0H0H0

reply to TSI Gabe
said by TSI Gabe See Profile :

It's a netflow graph. Only a certain percentage of the data is collected. But it still represents a global view of the network.
Sampled Netflow is pretty common but your graphing applications should be adjusted according to the sample rate you are using if you want the traffic levels to be more representative of reality. Also, Netflow is pretty lousy at identifying applications because it only knows about ports. I wouldn't trust it's P2P classification because BT/P2P apps tend to use ports all over the place... That's why they rely on DPI now because it goes further than just ports and looks at payload signatures to identify applications.

alec

join:2007-12-24
Ottawa, ON
reply to TSI Gabe
anyone else notice that the 2nd graph, left Y-axis is not the same as the 3rd graph y-axis?

2nd one is going up by 40, where second one goes up by 20..skews the results a bunch?

anyone see this?

the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

reply to BozoTheCl0wn
said by BozoTheCl0wn See Profile :

I wouldn't trust it's P2P classification because BT/P2P apps tend to use ports all over the place... That's why they rely on DPI now because it goes further than just ports and looks at payload signatures to identify applications.
Gabe, thats what I was about to ask, considering users that are maxing their torrents, most of them are using private trackers that block common p2p ports such as 6881-6889. I know If I'm helping someone set up port forwarding I never use these ports simply because some trackers block them. So, is this true? does it only look at port numbers? If so i'd say this graph is trash.


Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

said by the cerberus See Profile :

Gabe, thats what I was about to ask, considering users that are maxing their torrents, most of them are using private trackers that block common p2p ports such as 6881-6889. I know If I'm helping someone set up port forwarding I never use these ports simply because some trackers block them. So, is this true? does it only look at port numbers? If so i'd say this graph is trash.
Even if you combine all UDP traffic and all P2P traffic on those graphs, you're still at 50%, not 70-90% like Bell has tried to claim in the past.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

gord27

join:2005-05-01
Mississauga, ON
reply to TSI Gabe
it may have been pointed out already but look how much more sporadic the throttling graph is. there is far more fluctuation due to the throttling. the non-throttled graph is much smoother.
Forums » O Canada! » Canadian » TekSavvy Virgin Media CEO attacks net neutrality »
« What is: ADSL High Speed Internet (Non-PPPOE) ?  
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