Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others in TekSavvy

Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others in TekSavvy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20252641 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:03:25 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:03:25 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330337 ScytheNoire : Since April 7th, my internet hasn't worked right, at all. I've been through hell trying everything TekSavvy has wanted me to, but it's not on my end, never has been. It's directly a result of Bell's changes.

I cannot browse the web or play games without problems happening. My signal is strong and clean, but it keeps having multiple login's (router has been out of the equation, so not that), and constant problems.

This has caused me a lot of aggravation and headache, phone bill costs, and now I'm having Crohn's attacks, causing me a lot of physical pain. This could lead to me missing work and having to go to the hospital.

All of this caused by Bell's traffic shaping of people who are not Bell customers. Good job Bell, you are destroying my life and costing me a lot of money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330337 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:15:50 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330145 anon : The graphs don't make any sense to me.

I don't understand the 1gbps difference claim as the 1st graph only indicates an 0.4gbps change at 06:15.

The 2nd and 3rd graphs don't seem to relect the same time period as the 1st? They don't indicate the large spike at 06:15. The protocol recognition makes no sense, either. There's no way P2P is using that little in comparisson to UDP (?) and web traffic, it should surely be MUCH larger given its popularity and general size of transfers that take place (I've seen graphs from other ISPs that look far different to that distribution). I suspect P2P traffic is actually represented across all indicated protocols there, including UDP (which is nonsense, surely?). It also makes no sense at all that the 3rd graph shows a 110mbps drop across ALL protocols, and at ALL times of the day? They also appear to indicate peak activity in the wee morning hours and minimum in the evening. I gather the times indicated are 12 hours out of step?

All in all these graphs just don't make any sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330145 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:48:39 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20329522 netwerk : All i was saying is that graph shows p2p specifically but thats only going to be un-encrypted p2p traffic. I bet the majority of p2p is encrypted so its not shown on that graph.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20329522 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:38:32 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326322 morningstar : I know this may sound naive, but is this even legal?

I plan to call them later to disconnect my phone. My mom has had it for 7 years now, but it's time to move on. I'll let them know why I'm deciding to cancel the service, too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326322 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:59:53 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326276 DabberDan :

said by netwerk

said by TSI Gabe

:

Please judge for yourselves...

Most people use encrypted p2p now i think.

I don't know... not sure if it makes any difference. I use only encrypted and force it too - I still get throttled.

Plus, this limits incoming connection and download speeds since not everybody sharing the file have encrypted enabled/forced. Thus you're still artificially throttling yourself in a way :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326276 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:35:20 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326148 netwerk :

said by TSI Gabe

:

Please judge for yourselves...

Thats a pretty neat graph. I'm curious how you can differentiate between encrypted p2p and other protocols. If its using a l7 type filter thats only going to show p2p un-encrypted traffic.

Most people use encrypted p2p now i think. So I really think that graph might be slightly inaccurate. I might be wrong though as I don't know very much about IP]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326148 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 07:16:02 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292205 morisato : well I'll be sure to assist you with all that extra bandwidth going to use rocky once i get Onto teksavvy :) so u waste less.. :) and ya a decent Upstream would truely Rule so i could actually send a friend something etc.. Sure be nice to not have shat upstreams.. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292205 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:15:17 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20268634 anon : Would it be possible to provide a graph from February? March break, and reading week happens over several weeks in March, depending on the school boards. February may prove to be a more relevant bench-mark. jmho. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20268634 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 06:42:20 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255750 CableGuy2 : With this information and the information from this post
»From the ennemy's mouth: P2P no longer largest bandwidth use

Bell should be throttling people surfing the web and watching YouTube since they seem to be the real culprits. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255750 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:16:31 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255344 NBomb : I've said it before, but honestly I would really just like more upstream. 5/2 would be just divine. 11mbit down is really more than I have a practical use for.

In my case, ADSL2+ isn't really that exciting, since at most I'll probably see 1mbit up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255344 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:38:48 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255209 JayMan : Add on make Bell start spending some money to improve the network, give people access to ADSL2 etc...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255209 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:10:40 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255186 Snickerdo :

said by Bskll

:

don't forget the almighty Punitive damages

Punitive damages are rarely awarded in Canadian judgements, so that's a non-starter. The fact that Bell did this without any prior warning, causing these ISPs significant financial hardship is most certainly grounds for some kind of suit, and shows a lot of bad faith on the part of Bell. In addition, the terms of the contract - the terms that Bell claims gives them this right - have been revealed to be no right at all, unless Bit Torrent, P2P, VoIP and other services are somehow considered network hacking.

I'd really like to see someone apply for an injunction pending the outcome of the case, especially considering the financial implications that are becoming more and more apparent.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255186 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:01:20 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255135 Bskll : don't forget the almighty Punitive damages]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255135 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:53:14 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255129 qweloo : This could be a civil suit separate from the complaint to the CRTC. And you can sue together with the other ISP. I dont know if the tariffs or the specific contract you have with Bell precludes the possibility but if there is none it could be a possibility.

I dont know the numbers but you and the other ISP can claim a lot of things when you think about it.

1) extra transit cost and any other cost committed based on your prior planning (ie equipment for upgrade, manpower on upgrade project that you did based on previous bandwidth requirements)

2) direct damage on your business from loss of customers due to this. Loss of existing customers and loss of future customers.

3) damage on your brand name and reputation since you are were advertising no throttled internet. cost of change in your marketing campaign ( website change, advertising)

4) Extra support overtime or manpower needed to respond to increased calls resulting from this sudden change imposed on your customers

5) exemplary damages as a preventive measure

Others can add in if they think of anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20255129 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:51:10 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254986 R0CKY : We just renegotiated both the Peer1 and Cogent contracts in the last 4 to 6 weeks if I recall! :huh:
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254986 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:21:37 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254971 qweloo :

said by R0CKY

:

I mentioned this in the "discount thread" but thought it was worth repeating.

As a result of this stuff (not being forewarned, etc...), we've now over-committed on transit!

We've committed to the following:

Peer1 - 1,000Mbps
Internap - 800Mbps
Cogent - 600Mbps
Teleglobe - 100Mbps
T-Systems - 100Mbps

Total committed - 2,600Mbps

So, savings.... after having sat down and done the math today with these graphs???? Don't think so.

This should be claimed to Bell as actual damages to TSI done by them doing it without forewarning .... If it is the same situation for all ISP it could add up to a nice sum (?)

Also exemplary damages should be asked to deter them from doing anything like this again without consulting with you first.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254971 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:18:33 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254911 lance_ : Thanks for posting this Gabe. I'm glad TSI is so open about the matter.

I'm shocked by the difference. BitTorrent doesn't even use UDP for payload, so that 75% drop in UDP is stunning. I think I'll write to the minister of industry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254911 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:08:04 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254808 Name96 :

said by TSI Gabe

:

Guys, the scale was not changed. The graphs show the actual real difference.

If the second and third graphs are taken at face value, then Bell traffic shaping has reduced TSI's entire bandwidth needs to one third of what they were, even during the hours that P2P isn't degraded.

Is this what you're saying?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254808 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:46:03 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254692 JayMan : Why do people question what is sitting right infront of them. The graphs prove they are throttling what else do you all want???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254692 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:44:24 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254761 inferno_gn : Hi there,

To be honest, I don't get the graph. *lol*

inferno_gn
--
Otaku Anime Network
»www.otakuanime.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254761 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:36:31 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254677 Black Moon :

said by TSI Gabe

:

[Thats because the traffic flow graph starts at midnight, the RRD graph starts at arround 1:00PM

Gosh, Gabe, you're right! Indeed, the throttling shaved off 66% of your traffic and indeed not only P2P is affected.

Hopefully you can use this in any possible forthcming legal dispute.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254677 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:23:01 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254623 mlerner :

said by R0CKY

Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind running a fiber to my house. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254623 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:11:41 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254585 TSI Gabe :

said by Black Moon

:

But it does not coincide with the throttling hours.

Thats because the traffic flow graph starts at midnight, the RRD graph starts at arround 1:00PM
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254585 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:01:47 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254568 Black Moon :

said by inferno_gn

:

Hi there,

Eric is the guy who posted the Home Phone thingy?

inferno_gn

Yes. He has posted once or twice before that, but not much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254568 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:58:22 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254564 Black Moon : But it does not coincide with the throttling hours.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254564 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:57:46 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254547 TSI Gabe : Guys, the scale was not changed. The graphs show the actual real difference.
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254547 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:53:27 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254350 inferno_gn : Hi there,

Eric is the guy who posted the Home Phone thingy?

inferno_gn
--
Otaku Anime Network
»www.otakuanime.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254350 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:15:43 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254305 Black Moon : There's a third brother called Eric (who almost never posts here, though).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254305 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:09:08 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254244 inferno_gn : Hi there,

Rocky and Marc are brothers? :D That's cool to know. They should have put a color picture. *hehe*

inferno_gn
--
Otaku Anime Network
»www.otakuanime.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254244 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:55:40 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254239 Black Moon : Hang on a second, Gabe. Someone already said that the dip is between midnight and 6 AM. Usually traffic is low during that time. For example, if you look at ToriX's graphs, the minimum is often around 6 AM and the maximum around 6 PM. So how can you be really sure that the 1 Gbps dip that you see here is caused by Bell's throttling?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254239 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:55:06 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254229 Trisomy21 : Ugh, the greed and stupidity makes me sick.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254229 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:52:59 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254063 qweloo :

said by R0CKY

:

Ottawa gal from p2pnet just sent me this....

»www.p2pnet.net/story/15438

regarding this passage:

"The last thing Bell Canada wants, especially with the sale of the company front and centre, is for even more users to jump ship to the likes of TekSavvy, as they’ve been doing recently, especially since the mainstream media have now picked up the story."

Yes true that they dont want their customers base to shink further but even with that fact, the deal is already in jeopardy because the banks that are supposed to fund the deal (ie borrow the money to teachers pension and their consortium so that they can go out on the open market and buy the shares at 42$) are having cold feet.

They are simply running out of money because of the losses from all the bad debt on US mortgage that they bought. So they have to save and shore up liquidity in order to avoid panicking their customers and partners who at one point might feel that those banks wont have enough money to run normal operations anymore. If that happens then those banks will fail like Bear Stearns a week ago when everyone will be asking for their money back at the same time.

So it runs a lot deeper than BCE losing customers. Its more like the bank that was going to loan you the money to buy BCE simply cannot honor that loan anymore.

These are the same banks involved in the Clear Channel deal

Clear Channel Deal Still In Doubt
The largest U.S. radio broadcaster said its $19.5 bil deal to sell itself to private equity firms may collapse after banks financing the deal missed a meeting to close the sale, published report said. Earlier last week, buyers Bain Capital and Thomas H. Lee Partners sued the banks and won an injunction against them. Clear Channel (NYSE:CCU - News) fell 1.4% to 29.20.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20254063 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:19:11 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253870 LiQuiD : So then all that UDP has to be the pr0n streams!! Lord knows the net is consumed by porn.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253870 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:41:05 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253841 DJ R : wow, according to the graph, seems like it has been cut down 3 time of the regular flows.

120Mbps average down to 40Mbps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253841 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:34:48 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253803 Snickerdo :

said by Name96

:

Torrent data transfers use TCP, not UDP.

Not all torrent data is TCP, there is a good chunk that is also UDP, albeit your point still stands.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253803 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:26:47 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253695 NiGHTS : Of course they want to destroy the competition. They want independents to go out of business. Then they get control. That is exactly what this is about.

All the talk about "lack of bandwidth" is complete nonsense. They want to destroy their competition, plain and simple.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253695 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:02:31 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253636 anon :

said by NeoStylez

:

what does this mean r0cky

Short version:

means their story they fed the press, the story they are feeding everyone about how the throttle is due to lack of bandwidth is a load of poop.

Its about one thing and one thing only. How they can get the most money and at the same time destroy the competition (or try to).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253636 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:48:40 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253633 Name96 :

said by NeoStylez

:

what does this mean r0cky

It's strong circumstantial evidence that Bell is trying to abuse its last mile monopoly to extract more money from DSL internet users.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253633 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:48:15 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253610 NeoStylez :

said by R0CKY

:

Ottawa Gal from p2pnet just sent me this....

»www.p2pnet.net/story/15438

what does this mean r0cky]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253610 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:42:34 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253531 Name96 :

said by Snickerdo

:

Even if you combine all UDP traffic and all P2P traffic on those graphs, you're still at 50%, not 70-90% like Bell has tried to claim in the past.

Torrent data transfers use TCP, not UDP. A traffic analyzer that couldn't tell the difference between TCP and UDP packets would best be described as severely broken.

The only things that make heavy use of UDP are streaming media, VOIP (VOIP is really just a subtype of streaming media anyway), gaming and certain VPNs. Nothing else should come close to this level of UDP usage. I'm certainly not aware of any P2P apps that make extensive use of UDP for data transfer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253531 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:24:55 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253528 LiQuiD :

said by BozoTheCl0wn

said by TSI Gabe

:

It's a netflow graph. Only a certain percentage of the data is collected. But it still represents a global view of the network.

Good information to know. That would explain why there is that high amount of "UDP" showing on the graph, when streaming media has it's own category. Worth noting though is that even if you were to combine UDP and P2P together, that still isn't the "80-90%" Bell claimed being used by P2P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253528 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:24:20 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253489 R0CKY : Ottawa gal from p2pnet just sent me this....

»www.p2pnet.net/story/15438
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253489 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:15:10 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253480 Snickerdo : No doubt there are financial consequences. Looks like Bell is now trying to outright force you out of business. :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253480 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:14:07 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253459 R0CKY : I mentioned this in the "discount thread" but thought it was worth repeating.

As a result of this stuff (not being forewarned, etc...), we've now over-committed on transit!

We've committed to the following:

Peer1 - 1,000Mbps
Internap - 800Mbps
Cogent - 600Mbps
Teleglobe - 100Mbps
T-Systems - 100Mbps

Total committed - 2,600Mbps

So, savings.... after having sat down and done the math today with these graphs???? Don't think so.
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253459 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:10:11 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253381 dcorreia : Before looks like 20Megabits/s of P2P traffic vs current 5Megabits/s. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Correction: I think these numbers need to be multiplied by something.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253381 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:48:10 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253364 gord27 :

said by ultracat

:

It's the scale I think. That's a typical effect when comparing to similar graphs at different scales.

hmm, true enough. i'm a bit slow. :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253364 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:44:43 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253341 alec : yup its the scale..

if we could get both of same graphs with the same scale on the left..then the impact of the graph would be more effective.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253341 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:39 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253336 the cerberus :

said by Snickerdo

:

Even if you combine all UDP traffic and all P2P traffic on those graphs, you're still at 50%, not 70-90% like Bell has tried to claim in the past.

I'm not so sure about that, I'd like to see a difference (before - after) graph if possible, so we can see exactly whats changed. Any chance we could get some raw charted data (perhaps using a better system then port identification), instead of a graph? then we could make our pie graphs and such for clarity.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253336 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:38:31 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253329 ultracat : It's the scale I think. That's a typical effect when comparing to similar graphs at different scales.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253329 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:37:17 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253315 gord27 : it may have been pointed out already but look how much more sporadic the throttling graph is. there is far more fluctuation due to the throttling. the non-throttled graph is much smoother.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253315 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:34:32 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253286 Snickerdo :

said by the cerberus

:

Gabe, thats what I was about to ask, considering users that are maxing their torrents, most of them are using private trackers that block common p2p ports such as 6881-6889. I know If I'm helping someone set up port forwarding I never use these ports simply because some trackers block them. So, is this true? does it only look at port numbers? If so i'd say this graph is trash.

Even if you combine all UDP traffic and all P2P traffic on those graphs, you're still at 50%, not 70-90% like Bell has tried to claim in the past.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253286 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:30:02 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253272 the cerberus :

said by BozoTheCl0wn

:

I wouldn't trust it's P2P classification because BT/P2P apps tend to use ports all over the place... That's why they rely on DPI now because it goes further than just ports and looks at payload signatures to identify applications.

Gabe, thats what I was about to ask, considering users that are maxing their torrents, most of them are using private trackers that block common p2p ports such as 6881-6889. I know If I'm helping someone set up port forwarding I never use these ports simply because some trackers block them. So, is this true? does it only look at port numbers? If so i'd say this graph is trash.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253272 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:28:03 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253262 alec : anyone else notice that the 2nd graph, left Y-axis is not the same as the 3rd graph y-axis?

2nd one is going up by 40, where second one goes up by 20..skews the results a bunch?

anyone see this?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253262 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:26:25 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253121 BozoTheCl0wn :

said by TSI Gabe

:

It's a netflow graph. Only a certain percentage of the data is collected. But it still represents a global view of the network.

Sampled Netflow is pretty common but your graphing applications should be adjusted according to the sample rate you are using if you want the traffic levels to be more representative of reality. Also, Netflow is pretty lousy at identifying applications because it only knows about ports. I wouldn't trust it's P2P classification because BT/P2P apps tend to use ports all over the place... That's why they rely on DPI now because it goes further than just ports and looks at payload signatures to identify applications.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253121 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:55:24 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253064 DarkStar33 : The graph "looks" the same but take a look at the numbers on the side. Thats the important part.

Last weeks UDP traffic alone is pretty close to the total amount of traffic flowing through the pipes now.

I feel bad for your call center people because I am sure they are fielding complains. Bring them a coffee or buy them lunch, I remember what it was like to be in there position.

Perhaps a breakdown of how TSI classifies traffic by protocol would be helpful to foster understanding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253064 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:45:11 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253048 TSI Gabe : We should be peaking at 3gbps. We aren't anywhere close to it now.
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253048 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:40:32 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253043 TSI Gabe : It's a netflow graph. Only a certain percentage of the data is collected. But it still represents a global view of the network.
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253043 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:39:37 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253026 BozoTheCl0wn :

said by TSI Gabe

:

DNS uses UDP

Yes but your graph has a separate color for DNS...

The three graphs obviously don't represent the same portion of your network. The first one is in the Gbps while the other two barely go over 100Mbps. If Bell only throttles P2P then your two colored graphs make no sense especially considering several reports of people experiencing full HTTP/NTTP/etc. speeds while P2P being stuck in the low 10's of kbps.

BTW, your "blip" is about 450-500Mbps, nowhere near 1Gpbs as you stated (or did you add in+out?).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253026 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:36:51 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253012 Name96 :

said by twizlar

:

Yeah thats what amazed me, everything is pretty much being modified, hence all the traffic spikes. Scary.

No, the traffic spikes are because the 'yesterday' graph has a different scale. The larger scale of the 'week ago' graph makes spikes less visible.

Note the peak traffic throughput a week ago was a pixel over 160Mbps while peak throughput yesterday was a little over 50Mbps. If these graphs are accurate, Bell has cut Teksavvy's traffic to about a third of its former volume even outside of the hours where P2P and encrypted traffic is degraded.

I question the accuracy of the traffic flow graphs, however. Slicing everything by two thirds 24/7 would have been noticed by everyone.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253012 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:34:40 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253000 anon :

said by cacruden

said by darcmage

:

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.

In the end, most traffic is P2P - so no Bell is not lying.... Personally I rarely use broadcast functions....

In the end most traffic is P2P? Looks to me like UDP has P2P creamed by far...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20253000 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:32:11 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252968 Snickerdo :

said by Name96

:

The only way they can continue to say it without lying is if they don't know what traffic is going over their network. This would merely mean that they're incompetent rather than dishonest.

If they're saying that 70-90% of their network traffic is P2P when it is actually more like 20-30%, that is beyond incompetent.
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252968 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:27:57 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252956 cacruden :

said by darcmage

:

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.

In the end, most traffic is P2P - so no Bell is not lying.... Personally I rarely use broadcast functions....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252956 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:26:37 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252895 JayMan : The big upspike in this picture shows what happens when the throttling is turned off. Keep in mine it doesn't always go off at 2am.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252895 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:16:17 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252907 Name96 :

said by darcmage

:

Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.

The only way they can continue to say it without lying is if they don't know what traffic is going over their network. This would merely mean that they're incompetent rather than dishonest.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252907 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:15:34 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252853 JayMan : Gabe, are you able to post pre-throttling graphs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252853 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:14:32 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252899 Snickerdo : I think it's pretty amusing to see what portion of the traffic is P2P, since it proves that all the ISP's rationale for throttling are nothing but a bunch of lies and that we have been lied to from the very beginning.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252899 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:13:07 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252882 ddurdle : I don't understand the comment about the first graph (the big blip). The big blip occurs between 2am and 12pm, outside of throttling hours. This only demonstrates that there isn't much demand during those hours, something the other graphs already confirm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252882 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:10:38 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252872 shikotee :

said by hehehehe :

Things here seem to hit the media pretty damn quick as of late.

Which is a good thing. Hopefully they are developing an understanding of the differences in transparency between Bell and Teksavvy.

David is much more open and forthright.
Goliath is more secretive and manipulative.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252872 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:09:29 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252860 darcmage : Could someone clarify how Bell can continue to say only p2p will be affected by the throttling and quote the 70%-80% bandwidth figures without lying.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252860 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:07:14 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252854 LiQuiD :

said by sMURF

:

So... Bell has effectively crippled your entire network? Wow, eat shit Bell.

I believe the full saying requires "and die" to be appended to that statement.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252854 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:05:54 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252845 Rastan : Thanks for posting these graphs. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252845 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:04:33 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252833 sMURF : So... Bell has effectively crippled your entire network? Wow, eat shit Bell.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252833 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:03:31 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252830 anon :

said by qweloo

:

This needs to go to the media (CBC, Globe and Mail, etc)

and also to the lawyers as evidence.

just guessing, but i'm pretty sure that's why they posted that graph here.. Things here seem to hit the media pretty damn quick as of late.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252830 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:03:13 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252819 R0CKY : ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252819 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:00:32 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252806 qweloo : This needs to go to the media (CBC, Globe and Mail, etc)

and also to the lawyers as evidence.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252806 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:58:38 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252791 TSI Gabe :

said by TheMG

said by Name96

:

What's all that undifferentiated UDP traffic, anyway?

My guess would be gaming that is not being detected as gaming, VoIP, and other streaming/real-time media.

DNS uses UDP
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252791 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:54:29 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252785 Name96 : What's really amazing about this is that Bell's been able to cut web traffic in half without anyone noticing.
--
Coridon Henshaw -=- »www.talisiorder.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252785 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:52:27 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252771 TheMG :

said by Name96

:

What's all that undifferentiated UDP traffic, anyway?

My guess would be gaming that is not being detected as gaming, VoIP, and other streaming/real-time media.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252771 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:51:09 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252763 DarkStar33 : Your transparency in how you do business is quite amazing, many could take a page out of your playbook called honesty.

Gotta love how all of the evil p2p traffic is eating so much bandwidth yet the graph shows it coming in as number 3. I was really surprised how little it really ate up.

Considering that many of us run frequent torrent up/downs the % of P2P traffic sure doesn't look like much, I would expect that the actual p2p traffic for Sympatico members is a fraction which reinforces the point that there was no need to do this aside from making money.

I run torrents 24/7 because my speeds suck, logically you would think if you gave people the ability to get what they want and then get out it would reduce overall traffic.

Instead of heavy download/upload for a few hours I now do moderate downloading for many weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252763 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:50:21 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252730 LiQuiD : Yeah.. Pie charts work alot better for the layman. A very good idea.

Name, we were talking about that in #teksavvy just now. It appears that udp can be anything from snmp to streaming media]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252730 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:46:22 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252716 Name96 : TSI needs to put out a press release on this first thing Monday.

Not only has Bell been less than honest about the percentage of P2P traffic but they've provided misleading information on what traffic is being filtered. This stuff is a PR goldmine as it demonstrates that Bell's public pronouncements can't be trusted.

If you send these graphs to the media, change the order around so P2P is at the bottom and therefore more clearly visible as a percentage. Better yet, make a separate pie chart showing what percentage was P2P a week ago and what percentage is P2P now.

What's all that undifferentiated UDP traffic, anyway?
--
Coridon Henshaw -=- »www.talisiorder.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252716 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:44:36 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252701 JayMan : Way to go Gabe. Now I have a chatroom full of confused geeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252701 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:44:02 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252680 anon : look at the scale... its like 1/3rd...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252680 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:39:01 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252671 twizlar :

said by TSI Gabe

:

the colored flow traffics are actually stacked. In other words UDP uses the most traffic, then Web, then P2P.

So there is more Web traffic on our network then P2P. Yet as you can see from the graphs, Bell does not only throttle P2P. It's affecting everything else.

Yeah thats what amazed me, everything is pretty much being modified, hence all the traffic spikes. Scary.
--
Intel Q6600 | 8800GTX | Ipods suck]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252671 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:36:14 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252662 TSI Gabe : the colored flow traffics are actually stacked. In other words UDP uses the most traffic, then Web, then P2P.

So there is more Web traffic on our network then P2P. Yet as you can see from the graphs, Bell does not only throttle P2P. It's affecting everything else.
--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252662 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:33:01 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252661 TobiasFunke : What I find interesting about those charts is that P2P is a tiny fraction of the "70-90% of all Internet traffic" that the majors like to bandy about in the press. This, despite the fact that TSI is a favourite of P2P users.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252661 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:32:40 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252660 wonders : Gabe, im curious. Some of us in #teksavvy feel the amount of peer2peer traffic is a bit low (before, and after). How is your graphs filter matching on p2p traffic?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252660 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:32:25 EDT Re: How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252641 LUF : Wow, thanks Gabe for those, very appreciated. That's like at least a third of what is usually used... this is quite insane.

And on that matter : We're all with you (obviously) on this one. I'm sure if you guys were to request something from us, we'd try as much as possible to help, as you've been helping us for years now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252641 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:29:51 EDT How much Bell's throttling affects our network and others http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252608 TSI Gabe : Please judge for yourselves...

Notice the big "blip"? They throttle for almost 1gbps of traffic!
Our Traffic flows 1 week ago
Our Traffic flows yesterday...

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20252608 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:23:18 EDT