takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
edit:
March 30th, @05:26PM
| Echeck security?
I've searched this question out with little success. I can go onto my insurance company's web site or my internet provider's site (or many others) and put in my name, checking account number and bank's routing number and pay my bill. What's to stop someone to whom I've given a paper check for a payment from saving this information from my check and using it to pay their bills? Seems like anyone can get this type of information from any paper check and then use it to withdraw money from an account.
Bottom line update: you wouldn't give out your credit card number like you give out checks, would you? Guess what: you are!
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"Windows is for boys, linux is for men, osx is for adolescents." Attributed |
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PrntRhd
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA | The banks do admit there is a potential of someone printing checks with your information on them and passing them. The signature card on file is your only protection on that type of fraud. |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
March 30th, @05:48PM
| The signature's traditionally been the protection and that's good protection. But I'm not certain you understand my concern. All someone has to do is enter the routing and account number (available on any check) and the money will be withdrawn. No signature required is my point! |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to takeahike
said by takeahike  : What's to stop someone to whom I've given a paper check for a payment from saving this information from my check and using it to pay their bills? This is about the amount of "vetting" that a merchant needs to perform to protect their interest & to a much smaller degree the interest of their customers.
A utility such as an Electric Company has already vetted their customers just by virtue of supplying the service & needs to do little vetting because very few people are going to attempt to pay their electric bill with stolen credentials.
In contrast, an online computer retailer will need to vet it's clients to the limits that current technology offers.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetting |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
March 30th, @06:05PM
| That's been my only comfort on this matter--that apparently you have to have some sort of legitimate account of your own to pay, so I suppose that's some protection. I imagine this type of "payment" cannot be used to move money from one account to another, except to a merchant who has qualified to use this system to accept bank payments. Still, I'm not absolutely sure that it's limited to such merchants. I also understand that under this type of system there's a long "reversal" period of 90 or 180 days. Still, I'd like to know a lot more about supposed safety here, especially since anyone, whether or not they make such payments, is vulnerable. It would seem that all you have to do is give someone a check, certainly something commonly done without even blinking. |
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Its a Secret
Rabidly yours
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Canada
·Shaw
| reply to takeahike
Myself, I use one cheque (check) per month. The rest of the time, I use a debit card, or use my bank account on-line to pay my bills. I don't use my CC for pre-auth payments because I want to see what I'm charged for before I pay it. I remain in control of the process, and do not trust anyone else to do it. I do have a direct debit payment for my car insurance though. |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
edit:
March 30th, @06:19PM
| Kind of my point. Will this problem make giving out checks (something done for hundreds of years) a disaster waiting to happen? |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to takeahike
Paying with an ECheck is all about moving money from one account to another account. In the case of the electric company your moving money from your account into their account. Where or with whom the electric company banks doesn't play into this either. If the concern is me opening a bank account called "SnowyOne's Account" & then processing payments from "Takeahike's Account" into my account then sure, there's a risk there. The good news is that the greatest risk in this scenario is on "SnowyOne". Have you've seen how difficult it is to open a checking account with a bank is these days? This scenario is a prime example of why that is true. The banks are vetting new customers to protect it's own interest.
Regarding the same issue but with credit cards as the transfer instrument MGD has a mammoth thread running on that subject here
»Ebook websites, fraud charges, Devbill/DigitalAge/Pluto |
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Its a Secret
Rabidly yours
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Canada
·Shaw
| reply to takeahike
I guess it would depend on who you issue checks to, as there is that possibility. Forging a check is common-place I would assume. I prefer to pay with cash when a person doesn't accept a check, or use a money order.
When in doubt, err on the side of caution. |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA | Seems crazy. Since when did you have to be afraid to give someone a check? Has always been a safe way to pay. It's unheard of that such a common practice could lead to your account being raided. |
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Its a Secret
Rabidly yours
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Canada | It IS crazy. But look at all the people who scam. A (false) sense of entitlement 'cause the world treats them poorly, or they're to lazy to come by it honestly. Conrad Black is at the extreme end of the scale.
CYA (cover your a**)! |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
March 30th, @06:41PM
| If something as simple as giving out a check can now create vulnerabilities, then the type of payments I'm talking about should not be allowed without some sort of pre-verification system implemented first. Actually, on some accounts of mine where I make such payments, a pre-verification process was required. |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to takeahike
said by takeahike :Seems crazy. Since when did you have to be afraid to give someone a check? That's not half as crazy as the potential dangers in accepting a check from someone.
I can give you a check for $1 & if you deposit it into your checking account, when that cancelled check gets returned to me in my monthly statement guess what I have?
I've got your banks routing# along with your checking account# neatly presented on the back of that check. I'm halfway to becoming you. 
That's one reason banks suggest it's clients no longer include their account# when endorsing a check for deposit. |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
edit:
March 30th, @06:46PM
| Yeah, but if you don't I've always assumed the bank will write your account number on the check. How else can they tell who to take the money back from if the check bounces? |
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Its a Secret
Rabidly yours
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Canada
·Shaw
edit:
March 30th, @06:49PM
| reply to takeahike
That's the difference between electronic and paper though. When I login to my bank, I have a picture and a phrase I've added to verify it's not a phish site.
Even when I make a on-line payment, I get a "Do you want to make this payment?" dialog.
(edited for typos  ) |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI | reply to takeahike
The banks that follow that best practice use the deposit slip among other identifiers. |
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Its a Secret
Rabidly yours
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Canada | reply to takeahike
I make it a point to never sign a check I get. At most, I'll write "For deposit only" on it when I put it in the ATM. No sig to copy or worry about losing it and someone else cashing it. |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
March 30th, @07:01PM
| reply to SnowyOne
said by SnowyOne :The banks that follow that best practice use the deposit slip among other identifiers. The ATM is use has had the practice of no deposit slip for years! Now that they have an electronic mechanism to take a picture of the check (and it also counts your cash, which is good), you no longer even use an envelope! |
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takeahike
join:2005-01-07
Woodland Hills, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
March 30th, @06:56PM
| reply to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret :I make it a point to never sign a check I get. At most, I'll write "For deposit only" on it when I put it in the ATM. No sig to copy or worry about losing it and someone else cashing it. Won't it, or isn't it possible for, such a check to be returned marked 'missing endorsement?' |
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to Its a Secret
said by Its a Secret :I make it a point to never sign a check I get. At most, I'll write "For deposit only" on it when I put it in the ATM. No sig to copy or worry about losing it and someone else cashing it. Excellent!
An informed client taking proactive measures to protect themselves offers more security than anything a financial institution could ever do. |
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