Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to jsmaster
Re: Chokepoint is always the local infrastructure ...
said by jsmaster  :So you're saying that DSL is a sharing line like cable? If so, you're on a wrong path because customers with DSL services have a dedicated line. If your DSL providers sets you for example for a profile of 5056/800, you'll have for all time a steady connection. Your line profile will be in most of the case a little less ( speedtest 5056/800 is about in reality 46xx/6xx ) This is normal because profiles are calculated on an optimal state and it's impossible to have a clean line. Perfection does not exist sadly. Yeah, you may have a dedicated line with DSL, and yeah, you may even sync at your correct rate, but that still doesn't mean the bottleneck in the CO doesn't exist. So instead of at the node on a cable connection, it's further up the line with DSL. No matter what type of network you are on, there is the potential for a bottleneck anywhere users come together. Whether it's overloaded routers or too little bandwidth at the node/CO, the potential is there. |
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root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
4 edits | reply to jsmaster
hahaha , it would have to be a Bell Techie to come up with that crap.
funchords is right and bell_tech is wrong 
... with server capable OS's each PC becomes a server as soon as it connects to Our Internet [the users] 
and to boot Mr/Ms "bell_tech" it's a good idea YOU read the laws and regulations please ... because Bell, Rogers and other agreements and EUA's don't hold water in court of law!
Only some are listed here: »www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2811/125/
Furthermore: Canadian inferstructure can handle 12 Mbps dlwds and 3.5 Mbps uplds for ALL Canadian users at same time 24/7 All year long. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric···ber_Line ,, The actual lines can handle 25 Mbps dwlds and 21 Mbps uplds. With changing to better modems these user speeds can go up to 17 Mbps dwlds and 12 Mbps uplds.
There are many households living in the courty [out of town] while live security video is fed at full speeds to their offices in cities. That's usually 3 to 12 cameras, all done over DSL or cable.
Actually with all that Black Fiber [unused fiber] just sitting there Canadian Internet is ready for 10 times the users, bandwith and present limits. This means every household can have fiber at LESS than DSL/cable rates of $25 [the more you use the cheaper it gets].
The problem is Bell is too lazy to fix last mile copper directly to DSL modem as required by regulations and to boot is forcing their other warez [in my opinion: crap!] on same lines to drive competition away.
tudmax = Senior Network and Systems Analyst
Providing Comprehensive Security, Privacy, Network Management as well as rest of PC & server services
in business for over 40 yrs, over 20 yrs of it in IT |
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jsmaster
join:2008-03-16
Montreal, QC
 ·Videotron
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to Jodokast96
said by Jodokast96 :said by funchords :No, this is DSL. There is no bottleneck anywhere. No customers are affected by the behaviors of the others. Not true at all. All of those customers eventually come together in the CO, and if it doesn't have enough bandwidth to handle all of them, there will be slowdowns. Just take a look at the Verizon DSL forum here, it's loaded with threads about just that, especially in NYC. So you're saying that DSL is a sharing line like cable? If so, you're on a wrong path because customers with DSL services have a dedicated line. If your DSL providers sets you for example for a profile of 5056/800, you'll have for all time a steady connection. Your line profile will be in most of the case a little less ( speedtest 5056/800 is about in reality 46xx/6xx ) This is normal because profiles are calculated on an optimal state and it's impossible to have a clean line. Perfection does not exist sadly.
For throtling, If you are not happy with a 30 kbits/s upload, then don't have an internet connection at all. With all the peers on your illegal network, your 30 kbits is not a problem.
The real problems are P2P clients who only try to cook your brain with the "simili" important upload speed.
HEY WAKE UP!!! Millions of users at 30 kbits, considering at least 20% have complete files and share... It'is not enough ???
And also, your internet connection is not built for upstreaming at all. If you check in your service contract, a residential line is not a server. It's illegal to run a server when subscribed on a home plan.
You are lucky to even have the right to run a P2P client because it's the same thing as running a mini server, because of constant upload/download streaming. And running a server from your home is ILLEGAL.
Considering this, ISP's could only cut off the switch and have a great 0 Kbits transfer rate. You'll be very happy I think.
So please... Think about it a little |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to funchords
said by funchords :No, this is DSL. There is no bottleneck anywhere. No customers are affected by the behaviors of the others. Not true at all. All of those customers eventually come together in the CO, and if it doesn't have enough bandwidth to handle all of them, there will be slowdowns. Just take a look at the Verizon DSL forum here, it's loaded with threads about just that, especially in NYC. |
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Xempler
join:2007-12-13
North York, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :This was done purely as an anti-competitive move, not a "manage the network" move. Bell Sympatico chose to implement throttling on their customers some time ago. As a direct result, customers began leaving in droves for third party ISP's like TekSavvy. There has been much concern at Bell Sympatico about the losses of direct subscribers (they still make a healthy profit off the 3rd party ISP's customers, but naturally they make a much bigger piece when the customer is directly a Bell Sympatico user.) Thus this new policy is born. Throttle everyone at the local level, therefore the third party ISP's cannot compete on the grounds they have an unthrottled network, since Bell Sympatico is doing it to them by force. Result they can stem their own customer losses because now there's little reason to switch.... Except for purely moral grounds. Hit the nail on the Head.
Anyone who believes Bell's crap...I have some swamp land I want to sell you.
People are leaving in droves...and stating the reason is due to throttling.
Bell's answer was to throttle their competitors and hopefully stop the bleeding. Otherwise they would've throttled competitors from the START when they started this mess on their end months ago. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :.... and allowing ANYONE(including their competitors) to send unthrottled data would adversely affect all users on the local infrastructure. IF THEY HAVE to throttle, they are doing it in the right spot where it affects all providers equally. No, this is DSL. There is no bottleneck anywhere. No customers are affected by the behaviors of the others.
The throttling helps Bell control gateway bandwidth costs to their transit providers. The wholesalers pay for their own bandwidth, so it doesn't impact Bell at all.
The only thing Bell sees is that it is bleeding retail ISP customers to its wholesalers.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to TKJunkMail
This isnt a consumer line that is "Up to" with a 10:1 ratio of user to bandwidth oversell.
ISP's purchase bandwidth PERIOD. If they straight up purchase an OC3, then they are purchasing 100% of that bandwidth to use 100% of the time as they see fit. Whether they choose to sell all of it to 1 customer or oversell it 100:1, that is their choice and the local monopoly has no right messing with it. Even if the ISP purchases dynamic bandwidth the above still applies.
This is an outright anticompetitive move from a monopoly that should be dealt with accordingly. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to TKJunkMail
This was done purely as an anti-competitive move, not a "manage the network" move. Bell Sympatico chose to implement throttling on their customers some time ago. As a direct result, customers began leaving in droves for third party ISP's like TekSavvy. There has been much concern at Bell Sympatico about the losses of direct subscribers (they still make a healthy profit off the 3rd party ISP's customers, but naturally they make a much bigger piece when the customer is directly a Bell Sympatico user.)
Thus this new policy is born. Throttle everyone at the local level, therefore the third party ISP's cannot compete on the grounds they have an unthrottled network, since Bell Sympatico is doing it to them by force. Result they can stem their own customer losses because now there's little reason to switch.... Except for purely moral grounds.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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Bellsucks
@aliant.net | reply to TKJunkMail
They are not allowed to affect the competition when it comes to throttling. I expect the CRTC to have a hearing on this issue. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :.... and allowing ANYONE(including their competitors) to send unthrottled data would adversely affect all users on the local infrastructure. IF THEY HAVE to throttle, they are doing it in the right spot where it affects all providers equally. Monthly usage limits are already in place. Now they are throttling from 4:30PM-2AM down to a few kbps all P2P traffic.
This is once again a Bell attempt to undermine their competition who, using the infrastructure Bell owns, has figured out a way to offer a better product. How can Teksavvy and others do it? They don't have shareholders to please. They can offer a better product for less because their costs and profit margins are slimmer.
As the former Bell's (ergo Verizon) have demonstrated here in the US as well, the days of innovation are gone. AT&T used to be widely respected for their innovation technological prowess, at some point they lost focus on that and instead started focusing on how to nickle and dime their customers, while offering a substandard product that was largely subsidized by taxpayers in the first place.
I am not normally for regulation, but if U-Verse is what we get in a deregulated market, bring on the Feds. |
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Done_Posting
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH | reply to mazhurg
So you work at Bell or have access to their network resource utilization figures?
- Tate
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Happiness is an OC-768 in your basement... |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
·Bright House
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to TKJunkMail
This is bell's anti-bleed measure since they're hemorrhaging customers to other dsl providers due to their poor tech, throttled service and high prices. Their solution is to make sure all of their competitors stuck in the same spot, this isn't a local infrastructure issue, this is happening everywhere.
This really comes down more to a violation of the crtc regulations and peering agreements more then anything. |
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mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Portage La Prairie, MB
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·MTS
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
However, the local infrastructure was holding quite well before this started. The problem is the Sympatico cloud and this was implemented in a effort to stop bleeding customers as now they can truly say that there is no advantages in leaving.
Bunch of crooks.
SEE: »Bell shareholder report re Bell Throttling (was inter. blog. for proof. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
|  .... and allowing ANYONE(including their competitors) to send unthrottled data would adversely affect all users on the local infrastructure. IF THEY HAVE to throttle, they are doing it in the right spot where it affects all providers equally.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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