Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
4 edits | reply to bgraham
Re: let's face it,
quote:
Why would VZ spend any more than necessary on technology that is a century old and probably will be gone in 10 years, at least in cities and towns.
Well, the point is the unions, consumers and some PUC are claiming Verizon is spending less than is necessary for services customers are still paying for.
I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable. |
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bobgwen
join:2001-07-07
Bartow, FL
 ·Comcast
| exactly. the customer is paying verizon their bill each month. verizon should be keeping the copper up. There are a lot of folks in Verizon territory (myself included) who won't see fios or any other fiber to the whatever for several years more. It doesn't take that much to replace a section of copper cable. It's getting those 2nd or 3rd lines to let go of that money to keep the plant up. Get rid of those bad sections and temporary (hah) wraps. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode  : I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable. That would fit with what VZ has told the regional franchise body in this area. Over the next ten years, FIOS and FIOS TV will be rolled out to the most affluent communities in the region. Then that's it - there are no plans to do anything else. |
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N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
·Cox HSI
 ·World Lynx
3 edits | said by PDXPLT :said by Karl Bode : I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable. That would fit with what VZ has told the regional franchise body in this area. Over the next ten years, FIOS and FIOS TV will be rolled out to the most affluent communities in the region. Then that's it - there are no plans to do anything else. If Verizon is not going to maintain their copper and are not voluntarily going to deploy FIOS network wide, then perhaps an update of the USF law would be in order.....REQUIRE them to roll it out and pay them from the fund....
But in this current political environment...pfffttt..... |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| I think that's exactly what Verizon wants- deploy FiOS to areas where they can make big $$$ on their own, make it prevalent enough that people in the rural areas want it, and then get the gov't to pay Verizon to deploy it, so they can make the money there too. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
2 edits | reply to N10Cities
quote:
But in this current political environment...pfffttt.....
Ding.
Ultimately, Verizon will probably convince Uncle Sam to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. But nobody in the government will effectively track spending, and nobody will independently track Verizon deployment claims, and the problem of deployment service holes will continue.
Some argue that's essentially what this new "Connected Nation" proposal is. Except in that case, Connected Nation takes State funds, puts on a dog and pony show with incumbent partners, and then fudges the numbers to make it look like something's actually being done. |
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Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to N10Cities
said by N10Cities :If Verizon is not going to maintain their copper and are not voluntarily going to deploy FIOS network wide, then perhaps an update of the USF law would be in order.....REQUIRE them to roll it out and pay them from the fund.... But in this current political environment...pfffttt..... If I were on the city council of one of those third-tier cities that Verizon isn't going to bother with, then I'd consider finding ways to come up with the funding to run the fiber throughout my city myself, run it as a utility and charge Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, TWC or anyone else who wants to offer service for the privilege of distributing their service over my fiber.
I'd sell it to the state and to the feds as an investment in infrastructure like roads, bridges, water supply lines or sewage treatment and get them to chip in as well. |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | And your local friendly telco lobbyists would tell the state and the feds that you were destroying the American economy with your socialist unfair competition and kill the project  |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
1 edit | quote:
If I were on the city council of one of those third-tier cities that Verizon isn't going to bother with, then I'd consider finding ways to come up with the funding to run the fiber throughout my city myself, run it as a utility and charge Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, TWC or anyone else who wants to offer service for the privilege of distributing their service over my fiber.
quote:
And your local friendly telco lobbyists would tell the state and the feds that you were destroying the American economy with your socialist unfair competition and kill the project
Precisely.
First, Verizon and AT&T have lobbied to pass laws BANNING you from operating your own alternative provider. Second, if they haven't, they'll spend millions smearing your project locally via push polls, disinformation, and other local advertising.
If you survive the lobbying power of incumbents, you can expect the Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman devotees to crucify you for using taxpayer money for something useful, as opposed to bailing out massive banking institutions or blowing up countries for profit.
And this of course is all contingent on your plan actually being financially sound before you spend a million or two fighting your local incumbent telco and cableco in court. (Google "Utopia fiber", who had a similar plan, and I now hear are struggling with financial issues after doing battle extensively with Qwest).
So yes. Godspeed!  |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :Ding. Ultimately In the past, Verizon will probably convince(ed) Uncle Sam Harrisburg, Pennsylvania to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. But nobody in the government will effectively track spending, and nobody will independently track Verizon deployment claims, and the problem of deployment service holes will continue. Sorry Karl, I couldn't resist....
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Those of us in Pennsylvania still remember being swindled out of a big pile of cash by Verizon.
Funny, all of New Castle County Delaware is wired up for FiOS, but my house just across the border in PA isn't yet.
Same shit, different day....
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode : Ultimately, Verizon will probably convince Uncle Sam to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. Well that's exactly what they've been doing already. Tauke, the Gov't Affairs VP, has been busy testifying in DC that gov't "assistance" will be necessary before VZ even considers deploying any broadband to areas where the ROI isn't as high as it is in the areas they've deployed to already ... |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | Do you have FIOS in Banks? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to Karl Bode
"Fairpoint"ing is hard. States will be furious if they try to cut up operations inside the state. Counties and towns will go ballistic and there will be court cases over how Verizon decides which street will the border between Verizon and the Verizon offspring. If they try to draw lines around suburbs and farms in new/outer suburbs, they will be in a world of hurt. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to N10Cities
If the USF was updated to only pay for Fiber, 90% of rural areas will have in 10 years, since there will be no other way to earn money. It will be high density areas left without Fiber  . |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to Karl Bode
very true. the Ohio PUC just fined VZ not to long ago for not repairing copper lines like they should be. And I have family that live in MI (in VZ Land) they were without land line service for 10 days because VZ would not go to their house and fix the lines. They always would just call their number to see if it work. It rang and VZ put the ticket in as line fixed. But it wasnt.
VZ needs to get their act together and either start giving areas to other Telcos that can and want to support it. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to PDXPLT
quote:
Well that's exactly what they've been doing already. Tauke, the Gov't Affairs VP, has been busy testifying in DC that gov't "assistance" will be necessary before VZ even considers deploying any broadband to areas where the ROI isn't as high as it is in the areas they've deployed to already ...
Yeah, they've started making a push for that money for a few years now. Given nobody has EVER bothered to effectively track where USF money goes or how it's spent, I'm sure they're jumping at the bit to get rolling.
Seriously, for those really interested in this issue from a humanistic perspective (and have seen it's not about partisan bickering), I advise you to keep a very close eye on this "Connected Nation" Movement. I strongly believe it's a monopoly lobbying effort dressed up as a deployment plan.
The real goal is to use taxpayer dollars to create an incumbent lobbying machine whose "deployment plan" pre-empts more effective & progressive plans, ensures incumbents are the only ones getting cash for such projects, while fudging the deployment numbers to make people think the problem is being addressed...
I've been digging into them for a while, and their numbers are painfully suspect. I really do think these folks may be cooking up the biggest scam ever perpetrated in the telecom sector.... |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to patcat88
quote:
"Fairpoint"ing is hard. States will be furious if they try to cut up operations inside the state. Counties and towns will go ballistic and there will be court cases over how Verizon decides which street will the border between Verizon and the Verizon offspring. If they try to draw lines around suburbs and farms in new/outer suburbs, they will be in a world of hurt.
They're doing that now, and who's complaining? Who's tracking it? We've tried to get at their deployment data and they treat it like national security. I've seen guys like Drew Clark try to get at it in court to no avail. Congress can't either.
Nobody is tracking where they're actually deploying this stuff (other than Comcast), so who's going to really bust them for redlining? Like with DSL in New England, they can sit in a perpetual state of "we're trying so hard" -- and who's going to step up and dispute that? |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to funchords
said by funchords :Do you have FIOS in Banks? Nope. And VZ has told the Washington Country franchise regulator that neither Banks nor North Plains will be getting it.
Not that I care: I just wish they'd deploy DSL everywhere they have the infrastructure to deploy it (i.e., where they have the fiber trunks, and the DSL-capable RT's). But it looks like they're not deploying DSL outside the Comcast footprint. |
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