Re: let's face it, in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20277072 en Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:31:26 EDT Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:31:26 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20282533 PDXPLT :
said by funchords See Profile :

Do you have FIOS in Banks?
Nope. And VZ has told the Washington Country franchise regulator that neither Banks nor North Plains will be getting it.

Not that I care: I just wish they'd deploy DSL everywhere they have the infrastructure to deploy it (i.e., where they have the fiber trunks, and the DSL-capable RT's). But it looks like they're not deploying DSL outside the Comcast footprint.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20282533 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:45:24 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281169 Karl Bode :
quote:
"Fairpoint"ing is hard. States will be furious if they try to cut up operations inside the state. Counties and towns will go ballistic and there will be court cases over how Verizon decides which street will the border between Verizon and the Verizon offspring. If they try to draw lines around suburbs and farms in new/outer suburbs, they will be in a world of hurt.
They're doing that now, and who's complaining? Who's tracking it? We've tried to get at their deployment data and they treat it like national security. I've seen guys like Drew Clark try to get at it in court to no avail. Congress can't either.

Nobody is tracking where they're actually deploying this stuff (other than Comcast), so who's going to really bust them for redlining? Like with DSL in New England, they can sit in a perpetual state of "we're trying so hard" -- and who's going to step up and dispute that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281169 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:32:57 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281160 Karl Bode :
quote:
Well that's exactly what they've been doing already. Tauke, the Gov't Affairs VP, has been busy testifying in DC that gov't "assistance" will be necessary before VZ even considers deploying any broadband to areas where the ROI isn't as high as it is in the areas they've deployed to already ...
Yeah, they've started making a push for that money for a few years now. Given nobody has EVER bothered to effectively track where USF money goes or how it's spent, I'm sure they're jumping at the bit to get rolling.

Seriously, for those really interested in this issue from a humanistic perspective (and have seen it's not about partisan bickering), I advise you to keep a very close eye on this "Connected Nation" Movement. I strongly believe it's a monopoly lobbying effort dressed up as a deployment plan.

The real goal is to use taxpayer dollars to create an incumbent lobbying machine whose "deployment plan" pre-empts more effective & progressive plans, ensures incumbents are the only ones getting cash for such projects, while fudging the deployment numbers to make people think the problem is being addressed...

I've been digging into them for a while, and their numbers are painfully suspect. I really do think these folks may be cooking up the biggest scam ever perpetrated in the telecom sector....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281160 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:30:40 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281135 hottboiinnc : very true. the Ohio PUC just fined VZ not to long ago for not repairing copper lines like they should be. And I have family that live in MI (in VZ Land) they were without land line service for 10 days because VZ would not go to their house and fix the lines. They always would just call their number to see if it work. It rang and VZ put the ticket in as line fixed. But it wasnt.

VZ needs to get their act together and either start giving areas to other Telcos that can and want to support it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281135 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:25:03 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280337 patcat88 : FIOS is a complete standard FOOL!

FIOS is Verizon's brand name for its offering of BPON . Everything in FIOS, all the plant, all the ONTs, and the ONUs, everything is off the shelf and standardized and has been used by many other [small/rural] American and foreign telephone companies. The closest FIOS comes to proprietary is the set top boxes for FIOS TV.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280337 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:14:15 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280320 patcat88 : If the USF was updated to only pay for Fiber, 90% of rural areas will have in 10 years, since there will be no other way to earn money. It will be high density areas left without Fiber :D .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280320 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:09:43 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280317 patcat88 : "Fairpoint"ing is hard. States will be furious if they try to cut up operations inside the state. Counties and towns will go ballistic and there will be court cases over how Verizon decides which street will the border between Verizon and the Verizon offspring. If they try to draw lines around suburbs and farms in new/outer suburbs, they will be in a world of hurt.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280317 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:08:19 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280028 funchords : Do you have FIOS in Banks?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280028 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 23:47:43 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279470 PDXPLT :
said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Ultimately, Verizon will probably convince Uncle Sam to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks.
Well that's exactly what they've been doing already. Tauke, the Gov't Affairs VP, has been busy testifying in DC that gov't "assistance" will be necessary before VZ even considers deploying any broadband to areas where the ROI isn't as high as it is in the areas they've deployed to already ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279470 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:00:52 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278153 N3OGH :
said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Ding.

Ultimately In the past, Verizon will probably convince(ed) Uncle Sam Harrisburg, Pennsylvania to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. But nobody in the government will effectively track spending, and nobody will independently track Verizon deployment claims, and the problem of deployment service holes will continue.
Sorry Karl, I couldn't resist....

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Those of us in Pennsylvania still remember being swindled out of a big pile of cash by Verizon.

Funny, all of New Castle County Delaware is wired up for FiOS, but my house just across the border in PA isn't yet.

Same shit, different day....
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278153 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:32:03 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278058 Karl Bode :
quote:
If I were on the city council of one of those third-tier cities that Verizon isn't going to bother with, then I'd consider finding ways to come up with the funding to run the fiber throughout my city myself, run it as a utility and charge Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, TWC or anyone else who wants to offer service for the privilege of distributing their service over my fiber.


quote:
And your local friendly telco lobbyists would tell the state and the feds that you were destroying the American economy with your socialist unfair competition and kill the project

Precisely.

First, Verizon and AT&T have lobbied to pass laws BANNING you from operating your own alternative provider. Second, if they haven't, they'll spend millions smearing your project locally via push polls, disinformation, and other local advertising.

If you survive the lobbying power of incumbents, you can expect the Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman devotees to crucify you for using taxpayer money for something useful, as opposed to bailing out massive banking institutions or blowing up countries for profit.

And this of course is all contingent on your plan actually being financially sound before you spend a million or two fighting your local incumbent telco and cableco in court. (Google "Utopia fiber", who had a similar plan, and I now hear are struggling with financial issues after doing battle extensively with Qwest).

So yes. Godspeed! :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278058 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:18:36 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277918 EPS : And your local friendly telco lobbyists would tell the state and the feds that you were destroying the American economy with your socialist unfair competition and kill the project :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277918 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:51:16 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277837 Corydon :
said by N10Cities See Profile :

If Verizon is not going to maintain their copper and are not voluntarily going to deploy FIOS network wide, then perhaps an update of the USF law would be in order.....REQUIRE them to roll it out and pay them from the fund....

But in this current political environment...pfffttt.....
If I were on the city council of one of those third-tier cities that Verizon isn't going to bother with, then I'd consider finding ways to come up with the funding to run the fiber throughout my city myself, run it as a utility and charge Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, TWC or anyone else who wants to offer service for the privilege of distributing their service over my fiber.

I'd sell it to the state and to the feds as an investment in infrastructure like roads, bridges, water supply lines or sewage treatment and get them to chip in as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277837 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:37:56 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277518 anon : The cable in your backyard is probably older than your great grandparents. It's trying to fix something that can no longer be repaired. Verizon engineering are not allowed anymore to go out a put a new work order for replacement. In the meantime the customer suffers. The neglect of the current infrastructure- copper - will have some negative impact on Fios. WHY?? customers are not stupid. Some of the attitude is that, the current landline comes off a 40 to 60 year old cable , in which customer suffer chronic troubles. They figure imagine the trouble i'm going to have with a new technology that verizon is offering. It doen't matter how much more reliable it is, it's the point of VERIZON neglect of service quality. I am a Verizon technician , who has been told from numerous customers, that they wouldn't think about going to FIOS, that's a sad situation for everyone.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277518 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:51:35 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277558 DaveNJ :
said by Smith6612 See Profile :


It's been a month since they first called it in, and Verizon still has the ticket in their computers. It's not as if they haven't been fixing it, they've been working to fix it, and they've done everything fron replacing the old Bell Atlantic NID, to running a new line from the house to the poll, going inside of their house for *FREE* to do a basic check in the basement, where they found a wire that as soon as they took the coating off of a section of it cracked and dusted up immediatly, to putting them on a completely new line pair and going down the entire line checking some stuff. The line's been good for about a week, but the last 4 fix attemps have all resulted in the buzzing coming back. They had gotten a service credit from Verizon over the buzzing as an apology, but they are hoping it won't buzz anymore. Also, their buzzing was soo bad, a dial-up modem could only connect at 0.5kbps... literally!
The response for this is get cable telephone. Its the only way verizon reacts to its customers. My one remaining telco line might get moved over, after the mean rep i spoke to, about credit for an outage. Sometimes the best fix is to cancel.
--
“Say no to fear. Don’t let anxiety crush your life. Live life free and unfettered.”



]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277558 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:46:18 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277496 Karl Bode :
quote:
But in this current political environment...pfffttt.....


Ding.

Ultimately, Verizon will probably convince Uncle Sam to approve a half-baked plan, cooked up by Verizon lobbyists to give them billions in taxpayer dollars to use on limited rural deployment of next-gen networks. But nobody in the government will effectively track spending, and nobody will independently track Verizon deployment claims, and the problem of deployment service holes will continue.

Some argue that's essentially what this new "Connected Nation" proposal is. Except in that case, Connected Nation takes State funds, puts on a dog and pony show with incumbent partners, and then fudges the numbers to make it look like something's actually being done.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277496 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:36:05 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277469 Smith6612 : Well don't forget, Verizon is slowly building out their network to Fiber, so they are going to have to keep their copper up adn running and running good until Fiber comes, and when fiber does come in, ask people if they want their telephone to be moved onto the fiber only and if everyone does do that, they can easilly take down the copper.

As for Static, some family relativers that have a 60 year telephone line coming into their house had been giving them some trouble. No matter what the weather was like outside, their phone line at random parts of the day would become soo staticy that you could hardly make out the dial tone or the person on the other end, and the person on the other end could hear the buzzing load and clear. It's been a month since they first called it in, and Verizon still has the ticket in their computers. It's not as if they haven't been fixing it, they've been working to fix it, and they've done everything fron replacing the old Bell Atlantic NID, to running a new line from the house to the poll, going inside of their house for *FREE* to do a basic check in the basement, where they found a wire that as soon as they took the coating off of a section of it cracked and dusted up immediatly, to putting them on a completely new line pair and going down the entire line checking some stuff. The line's been good for about a week, but the last 4 fix attemps have all resulted in the buzzing coming back. They had gotten a service credit from Verizon over the buzzing as an apology, but they are hoping it won't buzz anymore. Also, their buzzing was soo bad, a dial-up modem could only connect at 0.5kbps... literally!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277469 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:31:43 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277102 EPS : FiOS telephone isn't VoIP- it uses the same principles that allow POTS to go over fiber-optic trunk lines, only closer to the home- I've heard of people doing things such as dial-up internet and it working fine, we have a fax machine and haven't had any problems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277102 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:18:15 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277072 EPS : I think that's exactly what Verizon wants- deploy FiOS to areas where they can make big $$$ on their own, make it prevalent enough that people in the rural areas want it, and then get the gov't to pay Verizon to deploy it, so they can make the money there too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277072 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:11:37 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277051 N10Cities :
said by PDXPLT See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable.
That would fit with what VZ has told the regional franchise body in this area. Over the next ten years, FIOS and FIOS TV will be rolled out to the most affluent communities in the region. Then that's it - there are no plans to do anything else.
If Verizon is not going to maintain their copper and are not voluntarily going to deploy FIOS network wide, then perhaps an update of the USF law would be in order.....REQUIRE them to roll it out and pay them from the fund....

But in this current political environment...pfffttt.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20277051 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:07:46 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276976 anon :
said by cornelius785 See Profile :

it may be (should?) possible to do fax without copper. i think some company has adapters to go from fiber (VoIP??) to regular telephone copper wire pairs so people can use their old phones. a google search also suggests that there are fax machines with ethernet adapters.
Its incredibly naive to suggest that "adapters" will provide the same exact interface and functionality as the incumbent copper lines - and it is certainly no excuse for shafting millions of customers.

I'm all for a nationwide upgrade to FIOS-like facilities. But FIOS hasn't exactly been standardized or proven yet, nor have non-VZ telcos adopted it, and we've yet to see exactly how it will be priced. And for such a critical national infrastructure as the switched network, you don't just abandon the customers overnight, by fiat or neglect.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276976 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:53:27 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276913 PDXPLT :
said by Karl Bode See Profile :

I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable.
That would fit with what VZ has told the regional franchise body in this area. Over the next ten years, FIOS and FIOS TV will be rolled out to the most affluent communities in the region. Then that's it - there are no plans to do anything else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276913 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:40:22 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276731 cornelius785 : it may be (should?) possible to do fax without copper. i think some company has adapters to go from fiber (VoIP??) to regular telephone copper wire pairs so people can use their old phones. a google search also suggests that there are fax machines with ethernet adapters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276731 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:07:35 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276727 bobgwen : exactly. the customer is paying verizon their bill each month. verizon should be keeping the copper up. There are a lot of folks in Verizon territory (myself included) who won't see fios or any other fiber to the whatever for several years more. It doesn't take that much to replace a section of copper cable. It's getting those 2nd or 3rd lines to let go of that money to keep the plant up. Get rid of those bad sections and temporary (hah) wraps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276727 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:07:12 EDT Re: let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276684 Karl Bode :
quote:
Why would VZ spend any more than necessary on technology that is a century old and probably will be gone in 10 years, at least in cities and towns.


Well, the point is the unions, consumers and some PUC are claiming Verizon is spending less than is necessary for services customers are still paying for.

I'd also be willing to bet that in ten years, 35% of Verizon's infrastructure (or more) is still copper...Unless they "Fairpoint" those rural areas, which is likely. It's something nobody's talking about yet because we're bandwidth dazzled, but I'd bet FiOS deployment stops cold at 50-60% of the network, and the rest of their largely rural and third-tier city network is ultimately considered unprofitable and disposable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276684 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:01:01 EDT let's face it, http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276671 bgraham : Why would VZ spend any more than necessary on technology that is a century old and probably will be gone in 10 years, at least in cities and towns.

Copper can now only provide a minimal piece of their services, POTS and DSL. Not TV or broadband that must be a large part of the billing dollars in a few years with the demise of the telephone to cell and VOIP.

Oh I forgot you need it for fax lines.

edit: also, I am not a telecom person (although I have the poles and the big box in my backyard) :D :D, but surely after FIOS is run through a neighborhood it must cost a similar amount to connect a FTTP compared to having a couple of guys working for a day trying to fix some obscure copper problem. It is not unusual to have 2 or 3 repair crews working all day in my back yard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20276671 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:59:14 EDT