Odd Message from Bell in TekSavvy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20278241 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:27:18 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:27:18 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20282009 nanook :
said by CanerisErik See Profile :

However, to ask again: what makes you think Bell has today's mainframes?
Virtually no one uses mainframes that are more than several years old for essentially the same reasons why few people use PCs that are more than 8 or 10 years old. The technology improves at such a rapid pace and the cost of replacing it declines so much that it is simply more expensive to keep old iron than to replace it. Indeed PCs can usually be upgraded easily and at relatively low cost. That is generally not an option for mainframes.

You're giving them too much credit...such cost savings and not wasting $ would make too much sense for them, they're not that smart, ya know?
I do not give Bell's management credit for much, however, even they are not that dumb.

(I do have ways to find out what mainframes Bell uses, however, it would take a few phone calls and my sources would have to do some work. It is simply not worth the effort or their time to confirm this.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20282009 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:13:00 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281984 ftp1020 :
said by CanerisErik See Profile :

what makes you think Bell has today's mainframes?
Perhaps because they don't own them. For years, IBM either leased them, or leased time (sold by the MIPS) on them through their ISM company. The demise of Big Iron has been predicted for decades now, but it never seems to happen as new uses are found for those types of machines. With their phenomenal I/O power (if not raw CPU power), a single mainframe can host thousands of web servers and not even blink at the traffic.

When PCs can copy and back up a multi-million record DB2/SQL database in less time than it takes to say "zzzzt", talk to me about how "powerful" PCs are.

Another thing is standards, reliability, and predictability. PC standards change (IDE is now SATA, PCI-e is now PCI-e 2.0 etc) faster than you can write them down. Meanwhile, my quick reference card for JCL has a "copyright 1972" on it because the standards and batch interface language haven't changed. You don't have to retrain staff every 5 weeks just because Intel comes out with The Next Big Thing.

I apply mainframe thinking to my PC purchases: if I don't have an actual need to upgrade (particularly software) ... I don't. Newer for newer's sake is often disastrous.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281984 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:08:36 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281519 CanerisErik : That's impressive! I must admit a fair amount of ignorance of recent developments in the field.

However, to ask again: what makes you think Bell has today's mainframes? You're giving them too much credit...such cost savings and not wasting $ would make too much sense for them, they're not that smart, ya know? ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281519 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:49:42 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281211 nanook :
said by CanerisErik See Profile :

said by nanook See Profile :

said by CanerisErik See Profile :

mainframes requiring maintenance by dinosaurs.
Today's mainframes are nothing like your father's mainframes. In addition to running all the legacy stuff under z/OS, they also run 100s or 1,000s of instances of Linux, all on one box, all centrally managed and with the power consumption, capacity and reliability that other technologies can only dream of. Associating today's mainframes with an organization like Bell is a giant insult to mainframes -- and dinosaurs.
What makes you think Bell has today's mainframes instead of those from the 60's?
Because today's mainframes cost a tiny fraction of those from 10 or 15 years ago. The cost of maintaining the hardware in an older mainframe system alone is prohibitive. Meanwhile legacy software written 40 years ago continues to run just fine on the latest models.

As for power consumption (I was actually referring to processing power but since you raised the subject):IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe
quote:
In one of the most significant transformations of its worldwide data centers in a generation, IBM today announced that it will consolidate about 3,900 computer servers onto about 30 System z mainframes running the Linux operating system. The company anticipates that the new server environment will consume approximately 80 percent less energy than the current set up and expects significant savings over five years in energy, software and system support costs...


said by CanerisErik See Profile :

said by nanook See Profile :

You owe us[*] "dinosaurs" an apology.
"dinosaurs" was said with love, I swear! :p
I know. I am just pulling your dinosaur-loving tail ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281211 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:41:43 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281098 CanerisErik :
said by nanook See Profile :

said by CanerisErik See Profile :

mainframes requiring maintenance by dinosaurs.
Today's mainframes are nothing like your father's mainframes. In addition to running all the legacy stuff under z/OS, they also run 100s or 1,000s of instances of Linux, all on one box, all centrally managed and with the power consumption, capacity and reliability that other technologies can only dream of. Associating today's mainframes with an organization like Bell is a giant insult to mainframes -- and dinosaurs.
What makes you think Bell has today's mainframes instead of those from the 60's?

said by nanook See Profile :

You owe us[*] "dinosaurs" an apology.
"dinosaurs" was said with love, I swear! :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281098 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:16:27 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281066 CanerisErik :
said by ftp1020 See Profile :

said by CanerisErik See Profile :

My dad's one, so I get to make fun of a COBOL/CICS/Fortran/VMS/whatever person on a regular basis ... "get up with the times, it ain't the 60's anymore man" :p
If your dad's not charging $100+ per hour, he's not doing it right...

MVS/TSO FTW!
Hehehe...I should tell him to raise the $...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20281066 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:05:49 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280958 nanook :
said by CanerisErik See Profile :

mainframes requiring maintenance by dinosaurs.
Today's mainframes are nothing like your father's mainframes. In addition to running all the legacy stuff under z/OS, they also run 100s or 1,000s of instances of Linux, all on one box, all centrally managed and with the power, capacity and reliability that other technologies can only dream of. Associating today's mainframes with an organization like Bell is a giant insult to mainframes -- and dinosaurs.

You owe us[*] "dinosaurs" an apology.

[*] Proudly earning my daily bread through the care and feeding of dinosaurs since 1970.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280958 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:29:16 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280839 anon : Thank God for the y2k scare. Dinosaurs like me were able to cash in on all those COBOL programs that needed changing (because of the half-baked code we wrote back in the 60s and 70s - sort of like giving yourself a bonus to be paid out 30 years in the future).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280839 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:45:07 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280820 mr_hexen : someone needs to get a recording of this message as well as the call in to bell.. .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20280820 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:36:11 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279995 ftp1020 :
said by CanerisErik See Profile :

My dad's one, so I get to make fun of a COBOL/CICS/Fortran/VMS/whatever person on a regular basis ... "get up with the times, it ain't the 60's anymore man" :p
If your dad's not charging $100+ per hour, he's not doing it right...

MVS/TSO FTW!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279995 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 23:40:10 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279680 CanerisErik :
said by ftp1020 See Profile :

said by CanerisErik See Profile :

mainframes requiring maintenance by dinosaurs.
Hey! I resemble that remark!! :p
My dad's one, so I get to make fun of a COBOL/CICS/Fortran/VMS/whatever person on a regular basis ... "get up with the times, it ain't the 60's anymore man" :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279680 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:40:27 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279633 ftp1020 :
said by CanerisErik See Profile :

mainframes requiring maintenance by dinosaurs.
Hey! I resemble that remark!! :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279633 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:31:35 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279411 DarkStar33 : Oh I know all about it believe me.

However if a system so complex that it makes errors like this then it needs to be re-factored into smaller subsystems that have specific tasks.

If you encompass every possible piece of data within one application you designed the application wrong. The shear amount of data is meaningless these days as long as you can manage and access it properly through proper scope control.

However this could be completely 100% human error as no system can overcome that.

In regards to the sheer amount of problems I have personally seen in Billing, Services and Fufilment I feel Bell has been neglecting these systems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279411 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:51:29 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279305 CanerisErik :
said by DarkStar33 See Profile :

Like every other application Bell uses the fulfillment system is also possibly faulty.

Its better to call back and ensure no service was issued. My finance once had a phone line that we had to call 7 times to get canceled.

It was deactivated for 2 months and then suddenly we got yet another bill forwarded to us.

They had no record of us calling to re-activate it either, it just happened.
Telco/cableco OSS/billing/provisioning systems are some of the trickiest pieces of software ever written. The volume of data alone is just phenomenal. Trying to understand these database schemas or state machine transitions is no simple task even for the most seasoned developer.

To make things even more difficult for customers and the company, the sad thing is that for telcos/cablecos the size of those who have forums here on DSLR, there is a very small number of folks there who actually understand how everything works and how all the systems interact with each other and all the effects of changes, etc.

Think the usual "stuff breaks at 2AM and you're asking 'who made the change?' and everyone tries to put the finger on someone else" multiplied by a thousand.

For good fun, add 3rd party vendors, contractors, and mainframes requiring maintenance by dinosaurs.

When I worked for a certain company who has a forum on DSLR, discovering that one of the devs involved in network topology systems/tools/DBs had zero understanding of subnetting explained a lot! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279305 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:38:34 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279062 DarkStar33 : Like every other application Bell uses the fulfillment system is also possibly faulty.

Its better to call back and ensure no service was issued. My finance once had a phone line that we had to call 7 times to get canceled.

It was deactivated for 2 months and then suddenly we got yet another bill forwarded to us.

They had no record of us calling to re-activate it either, it just happened.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20279062 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:01:04 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278974 DJ R : Mm.. sounds like they are trying to pirate your money since they are losing a lot of customers. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278974 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:46:32 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278748 Turbinator : Same here, I was thinking lets just hope that they are actually switching people to Sympatico. It would completly blow up in to their face.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278748 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:10:01 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278700 eots : Let's get some confirmation that Bell is indeed switching customers back to Sympatico without authorization, then the Competition Bureau would have to act! It would be really stupid on Bell's part to pull a stunt like this as it's only going to further hurt their case. I actually hope they are that stupid. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278700 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:02:47 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278598 JayMan : I had DELL sign me up to Bell without my permission.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278598 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:49:27 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278605 CanerisErik :
said by eots See Profile :

I doubt it. If Bell started switching 3rd party DSL customers back to Sympatico without approval then they'd have a major lawsuit on their hands.
It's funny because the same thing was said about throttling months ago when no one believed it would happen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278605 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:47:55 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278584 HiVolt : I had that happen once, i was with Bell still though. I ignored of course.
--
GOLF LEAFS GOLF!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278584 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:43:24 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278582 anon : Everything now seems to be possible. It looks like Bell can do whatever they want while the government watches and applause this monopolistic company. Now talk about being screwed]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278582 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:43:00 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278578 Arbalister : Actually...I had a customer call me last week to tell me she'd be in during the day to pick up her DSL modem. To my knowledge, she'd never ordered DSL. She's been a dialup customer for years, and *had* inquired about DSL...but I do all the orders and I didn't put one in for her.

She told me she called because Bell just left a message that the order was complete. Which is *also* strange because in every single DSL order I've ever put in, Bell has called the customer less then 10 times...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278578 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:42:30 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278325 Willy_ph :
said by AnonAnoff :

Was there creepy music playing in the background, followed by an echoey male voice shouting "mwuh-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaa..." ?
Sadly no. Although there have been some odd vehicles with dark windows hanging around the street lately...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278325 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:03:10 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278324 eots : I doubt it. If Bell started switching 3rd party DSL customers back to Sympatico without approval then they'd have a major lawsuit on their hands.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278324 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:03:07 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278320 anon : Was there creepy music playing in the background, followed by an echoey male voice shouting "mwuh-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaa..." ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278320 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:02:05 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278300 anon : Is it related to this?

»Hands off our network, Bell tells CRTC]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278300 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:59:57 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278286 eots : I'd call Sympatico customer service and confirm that they sent you this message and inform them you did not sign up for their service. On the other hand, since you aren't a Sympatico customer you could just take the free modem they're sending you. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278286 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:57:26 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278277 Willy_ph : I've been a Teksavvy customer since October/November. Apparently my modem is in the mail too?!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278277 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:55:36 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278272 eots : Are you a Sympatico customer or Teksavvy?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278272 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:54:32 EDT Re: Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278261 Turbinator : Huh?

Who, what, where, when, how?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278261 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:52:45 EDT Odd Message from Bell http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278241 Willy_ph : Anyone else receiving messages from Bell informing them that a Sympatico account has been established on their line with the activation date being mentioned in the message? Apparently my line is being upgraded to handle new speeds?

Seems a little odd, does it not?

It notes April 8th as the activation date (upgraded line = throttling?)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20278241 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:48:28 EDT