Re: Crazy in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20284207 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:53:34 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:53:34 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20653316 kamm :
said by gatorkram See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by dr3yec See Profile :

Totally agree! It is time that these isp's start upgrading or get out of the business. It the isp's fault for any bandwidth problems. Stop worrying about the shareholder and start worrying about the customer.
And will you be a customer if the monthly cost goes from $40/mo to $140/mo because of all the video flowing thru the system and requiring massive investment in new infrastructure?
The real question is, why haven't these companies been investing all this time? Why do they all of a sudden need "massive investment"?

These companies picked their own business models. They are the ones who have been sucking on the bandwidth tit, and not making investments. We should feel sorry for them now?

Get real..

And to your $140 a month quip, prices should be going down over time, or service levels should be going up. So far the prices are going up, and for most of us, the level of service is the same, or close to it, and not going up.

If you live in a market like I do, speeds are dismal and prices high, and there isn't much one can do about it.

Bleh is my final word.
EXCELLENT POST! :) :D
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20653316 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:09:04 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20653307 kamm :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by dr3yec See Profile :

Totally agree! It is time that these isp's start upgrading or get out of the business. It the isp's fault for any bandwidth problems. Stop worrying about the shareholder and start worrying about the customer.
And will you be a customer if the monthly cost goes from $40/mo to $140/mo because of all the video flowing thru the system and requiring massive investment in new infrastructure?
Jesus, WTF are you saying here? The markup is already 1000%-1500% on bandwidth!

Stop spreading false BS, ISPs made a LOAD OF MONEY in the last decade, without EVER UNDERTAKING A BIG UPGRADE, they always kept postponing and postponing it, only doing the very essential steps onlyk, solely to please their greed.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20653307 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:08:16 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291866 grandpinaple : Let me illustrate the cycle for you:

Early 20th century government intervention -> Telco wiring monopoly

Late 20th century government intervention in the form of franchise agreements and exclusive MDU deals -> cable monopoly

Telco + fiber + cable = duopoly, which means it isn't hard for the industries to collude on a psychological level and keep prices stable and churn low

Recently there has been some more turbulence between cable and telco, but this is in part due to Martin who is a Telco shill.

Duopoly that provides internet and TV = conflict of interest as TV can go directly through the internet.

Lack of more than 2 competitors in market = easy for internet providers who also have lucrative TV monopolies/duopoly can screw with 3rd party TV traffic over the internet.

Solution = 1) more government intervention to force net neutrality (doomed to failure eventually unless legislation is temporary oh say 20 years until the internet providers are comfortable as being dumb pipes and will be reluctant to go back to the old content provider business model)

Solution = 2) Cable companies and telcos or in other words the EXACT same thing since they both use high bandwidth medium to deliver media services realize that if they push their one way content cartel on the consumer it will backfire either in the form of net neutrality legislation or if they choose not to screw with traffic they will simply be destroyed (as TV providers) by the free market as 3rd party companies start deals with channels like ESPN to offer IP streamed content. I'm not sure how viable this will be as cable companies are still the largest in terms of Voip holdings, but partly because it is difficult to get things fixed when you have multiple companies as each points the finger on the other.

Internet service companies can still make big profits if they just move the charge of cable over to internet and offer tiered services.

Say 400/100 at 140 dollars per month for those who want TV from a 3rd party company (channels will cost next to nothing in this scenario because of vicious competition by IPTV upstarts).

You would still be able to buy cable TV from your cable company.

I think the problem right now might be that cable companies work on the over subscription model and gouge customers, they wouldn't like it if the tables were turned.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291866 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:11:02 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291577 jc100 : Yep. Plus it'd be pretty bias and crappy internet if the ISP was the only one creating places to visit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291577 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:06:04 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20287490 Ahrenl : Or how about ISP's pay content providers for creating the value they collect in their user connections. If there were only ISP content on the internet, how many of you would be subscribers? Really. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20287490 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:56:37 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20286781 anon :
said by gatorkram See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :
The real question is, why haven't these companies been investing all this time? Why do they all of a sudden need "massive investment"?

These companies picked their own business models. They are the ones who have been sucking on the bandwidth tit, and not making investments. We should feel sorry for them now?
I believe that you bring up a good point. In there business model, with the amount they charge customers monthly I would believe that they would have it set up so they gain profit as well as money to re-invest in there infrastructure. More people would equal more income to invest. At least you would think this.

I think you have a good question.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20286781 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:56:46 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20285479 TScheisskopf : Oh, he just throws that FUD out every time this story comes up. It's just part of the scare tactics that are supposed to keep the one-fodder-units shut up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20285479 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:13:56 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20284562 Warez_Zealot :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by dr3yec See Profile :

Totally agree! It is time that these isp's start upgrading or get out of the business. It the isp's fault for any bandwidth problems. Stop worrying about the shareholder and start worrying about the customer.
And will you be a customer if the monthly cost goes from $40/mo to $140/mo because of all the video flowing thru the system and requiring massive investment in new infrastructure?
You're thinking the wrong way. North America is an LME market. As a result companies tend to think in the short term. If they acted like a CME they would think of the long term. They would upgrade their networks, not freak out when the stocks *possibly* drop a little, and give it a few years o recover.

Anyhow, look at Verizon. Are they charging $140/mo?

»fp.tm.tue.nl/ecis/papers/Los,%20···aper.pdf

Read this and maybe you will get a different perspective.

To be honest, I think it's time the Governments tax every ISP who ever received a dime of subsidies and use that money to develop better back bones and last km to the customer. Once that is rolled out, they can lease that network to various 3rd party startup who would to customer connections and provide the internet /w their own head end. In Canada we need this since there is literally 1-2 real ISP's in each city (if that).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20284562 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:08:33 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20284207 gatorkram :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by dr3yec See Profile :

Totally agree! It is time that these isp's start upgrading or get out of the business. It the isp's fault for any bandwidth problems. Stop worrying about the shareholder and start worrying about the customer.
And will you be a customer if the monthly cost goes from $40/mo to $140/mo because of all the video flowing thru the system and requiring massive investment in new infrastructure?
The real question is, why haven't these companies been investing all this time? Why do they all of a sudden need "massive investment"?

These companies picked their own business models. They are the ones who have been sucking on the bandwidth tit, and not making investments. We should feel sorry for them now?

Get real..

And to your $140 a month quip, prices should be going down over time, or service levels should be going up. So far the prices are going up, and for most of us, the level of service is the same, or close to it, and not going up.

If you live in a market like I do, speeds are dismal and prices high, and there isn't much one can do about it.

Bleh is my final word.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20284207 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:59:04 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20284016 jc100 : Well since the BBC should subsidize the ISP for a service it is PAID to provide, I have another idea. The ISP should subsidize its users with new computers. After all, since we're paying to use their pipes, we must have adequate hardware to do so. Therefore, it's the ISPS job to ensure (since the BBC and others are paying them similarly), that all users are properly connected. So when will my new pc arrive?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20284016 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:23:42 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283966 tschmidt :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

And will you be a customer if the monthly cost goes from $40/mo to $140/mo because of all the video flowing thru the system and requiring massive investment in new infrastructure?
If I were accessing lots of video then sure – why would I mind as long as it was competitive to other means of access?

Many folks are under the impression Internet is some sort of hierarchy with the end user paying the tab. That is not true. Internet is a Mesh where each connection is charged for the cost of delivering bits. Google, YouTube, et al are not getting a free ride any more then I am as a Verizon DSL subscriber.

It is true ISP's assumed residential broadband customers would be light users. As such were able to heavily oversubscribe network keeping cost down. If that model turns out to be inaccurate they will have to revise marketing/engineering goals to bring things back in line so they are profitable.

This really is not about bandwidth consumption it is driven by ISP fears of becoming commodity bandwidth provider. They want to offer "content" (how I hate that word) so most of what customer is buying is access to content rather then raw bandwidth.

Personally I think that approach is doomed to failure. As technology improves there will be more and more creators rather then the few media giants we have today. Network Neutrality is about keeping the Internet open so new entrepreneurs are able to set up shop without having to modify the network or get network owners permission to operate.

/tom
fixed several of typos]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283966 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:12:16 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283818 TKJunkMail :
said by dr3yec See Profile :

Totally agree! It is time that these isp's start upgrading or get out of the business. It the isp's fault for any bandwidth problems. Stop worrying about the shareholder and start worrying about the customer.
And will you be a customer if the monthly cost goes from $40/mo to $140/mo because of all the video flowing thru the system and requiring massive investment in new infrastructure?
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283818 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:41:54 EDT Re: Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283737 dr3yec : Totally agree! It is time that these isp's start upgrading or get out of the business. It the isp's fault for any bandwidth problems. Stop worrying about the shareholder and start worrying about the customer. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283737 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:20:01 EDT Crazy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283698 gatorkram : If anyone thinks for a moment, sites like the BBC or Google should be paying last mile providers, are just that, crazy...
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20283698 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:11:57 EDT