Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? in AT&T Southeast

Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? in AT&T Southeast http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20288834 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:45:02 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:45:02 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911581 greg_true : I once read an old (c. 1980) paper from IBM. The part of it that has always stuck with me concerned what the bulk of IBM's service calls involved: Repairing lousy wiring (data cables) and problems with the electric power source. I've seen and had my share of bad grounding being the source of problems. Could that be what is troubling here too?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911581 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:57:50 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911524 greg_true : et1212: "Motorola Netopia 2210-02-1006 is what I got from ATT/BS. I heard 2-Wire works fine too."

Thank you et1212.
I appreciate all who are making this forum possible.
I will use the knowledge I gain here for honorable, legal, and hopefully profitable purposes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20911524 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:46:56 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20905902 et1212 : I actually believe (no solid support yet) that lousy wiring and the modem both contributed to my problem - as I later found out that my inside wiring is a mess ... However there is no dispute that switching from Westll to Netopia solved my lightening problem - despite that fact that I never got around to truly clean up my IW.

With a good clean IW (maybe a DSL splitter), I suspect a Westell 6100 would work ok in my house too. I cannot prove it yet as I always have too many different projects going on and this is not a project requiring immediate attention.

I never had any CRC error with Westell but do have a lot with Netopia. My connection is "interleaved" with Westell and "FAST" with Netopia. The actual dl speed are the same for both modems, though. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20905902 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:42:13 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20904599 Robert c : I had the same problem With rain and lightning and thunder storms ..A couple of weeks ago I had a technician come out to check my speed..And he said the box outside my house was not wired right ..He also said that he Could not believe that I even had a dial tone on my phones ..So he wired it right and but a filter on..Now it works good.No outage When it rains.or thunder storms. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20904599 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:51:32 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20904406 et1212 : Motorola Netopia 2210-02-1006 is what I got from ATT/BS. I heard 2-Wire works fine too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20904406 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:03:31 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20902680 anon : I live in Cullman County (AL). I'm gonna try and buy a Netopia from on-line auctions. Can you please tell me details on the exact Model#, Rev. Id., etc. that your Netopia has? I moved into the city and am close enough to get DSL service from ATT/Bellsouth. Just a poorboy trying to get by here. Could you help me?
Cheers to you!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20902680 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:41:24 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837527 Pashune :

said by dsldaddyo

:

My Westell 6100 went out to the curb with this morning's garbage.

LOL. Mine didn't go out to the garbage, but it is pretty smashed up since I have another spare if something goes wrong + an old 2wire homeportal.

Anyway, glad to hear you got your problem solved. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20837527 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:18:11 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836807 dsldaddyo : Wanted to provide update. I had BS send me a Netopia 2210 to replace my Westell 6100. As previously mentioned, the Westell was basically useless whenever lightening was in vicinity.

Well, the Netopia fixed my problem. Last night was the first real electrical storm we experienced since installation of the Netopia. It worked flawlessly throughout a prolonged, severe thunderstorm - constant sync, no drops whatsoever.

My Westell 6100 went out to the curb with this morning's garbage.

Appreciate all who contributed to this thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20836807 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:53:03 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832872 ARCC : I not on AT@T(Centurytel), but I also have the exact same problems since I got my 6100 months ago. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20832872 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:56:31 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817341 lgamer : Yes it happens to me also ! It even happens when there's rain or high winds ! Funny thing is I never had any issues when I was with bellsouth. Now that at & t has signed on, I've had all kinds of problems and I've been a customer since 2003.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817341 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:04:33 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20801025 Pashune :

said by naelg

:

If you have a westell 6100 modem I can tell you that this is the reason why you are losing sync during thunderstorms, get a Netopia, it worked for me like magic.

Same here. Techs kept claiming it was because of my long loop but I was determined to fix the problem...

Trying to get on cable because 1.2 mbps (1472 kbit sync) is no longer suitable for what I do. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20801025 Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:08:14 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20800999 Mr_A1 : As a follow-up to the original problem and solution I had done; there were multiple severe thunderstorms last week in my area with one having lots of lighting right near my home. The Westell 327W would of lost sync through the entire storn, but the new 2Wire 2701HG-B never lost sync and I was able to keep watch of the radar from my local news website during the entire time. My problem has been fixed which is good since I now have done away with my POTS and transferred my number to VOIP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20800999 Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:04:13 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20800677 bootamac : I have the Fast access 6.0 service from AT&T. I also loose the dsl sync during thunder storms. I also loose sync when I first start up my treadmill. The signal comes back after a minute of being on the treadmill, but the storm issue is a pain as each boom of lightning causes the signal to loose sync. I am using the westell C90-610030-06

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20800677 Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:01:05 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783385 Kamin65 : Yup......

If there's a lightening storm within 30 miles
of me, my connection is screwed until it has
passed beyond some point.

I've called about this on a couple of occasions,
but the persons I talked to had no idea what I
was talking about. Go Figure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783385 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:37:10 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20780859 naelg : If you have a westell 6100 modem I can tell you that this is the reason why you are losing sync during thunderstorms, get a Netopia, it worked for me like magic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20780859 Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:59:59 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769769 Airwolf7 : You know how sometimes people with a static IP address lose it somehow and have to reorder it again?

I sometimes have the opposite problem. I have a dynamic IP address and sometimes get stuck with a static IP address. I have never ordered a static IP address.

When I have a dynamic IP address it's always in this format adsl-157-112-XX.owb.bellsouth.net and when I change out modems or restart the modem I normally get a different IP address.

When I get stuck with a static IP address it's always in this format 70.157.112.XX.sip.asm.bellsouth.net (as best as I can remember the adsl part is not there and the sip part is always there and I think it is always asm but I'm not sure but it is never owb)and it will stay that way no matter how many times I change out modems or restart the modem. The only way I can get it to go back to a dynamic IP address is to disconnect the modem and leave it disconnected for about 15 minutes and then it will go back to this format adsl-157-112-XX.owb.bellsouth.net and if I change out modems or restart the modem I normally get a different IP address.

It doesn't really bother me that it does this but I was curious as to why it does this sometimes.

FAQFixer, Have you ever heard of this happening before?
--
.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

"Those who beat swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't."

Quotes by Benjamin Franklin.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769769 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:38:47 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769485 FAQFixer :

said by RJ44

:

Well, you'd know better than me. But whatever, they definitely aren't all static.

Correct.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769485 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:37:58 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769434 RJ44 :

said by FAQFixer

said by RJ44

said by Hayward

:

Only under 3mb service... 3mbs and above are all static IP no matter hown long the interuption. Haven't checked lately but even 1.5mbs may be static now too.

Nope, dynamic is standard for all speeds. Static ip is a free option for 6M and probably 3M too, but the default is dynamic.

Well...the real answer depends on several things but normally:
1. When you actually ordered service
2. Was it an upgrade

Static IP for 3 and 6 Mbps went from yes, to no, to yes, to possibly.

Well, you'd know better than me. But whatever, they definitely aren't all static.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769434 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:28:09 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769425 FAQFixer :

said by RJ44

said by Hayward

:

Only under 3mb service... 3mbs and above are all static IP no matter hown long the interuption. Haven't checked lately but even 1.5mbs may be static now too.

Nope, dynamic is standard for all speeds. Static ip is a free option for 6M and probably 3M too, but the default is dynamic.

Well...the real answer depends on several things but normally:
1. When you actually ordered service
2. Was it an upgrade

Static IP for 3 and 6 Mbps went from yes, to no, to yes, to possibly. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769425 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:25:45 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769372 RJ44 :

said by Hayward

:

Only under 3mb service... 3mbs and above are all static IP no matter hown long the interuption. Haven't checked lately but even 1.5mbs may be static now too.

Nope, dynamic is standard for all speeds. Static ip is a free option for 6M and probably 3M too, but the default is dynamic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769372 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:12:29 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768671 dsldaddyo : Thanks for the replies guys. I'm going to try and get a new modem from Bellsouth - TODAY.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768671 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:28:57 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768036 Mr_A1 :

said by et1212

said by Mr_A1

:

I had the same problem with my Westell 327w with lighting and heavy rain causing the modem to lose sync even if the storm was miles away on the old copper. I called tech support and after a few minutes on hold while the support person talked to someone higher up the chain, he came back a verified that the Westell modems do have this problem for some reason. They sent out the new 2wire Homeportal(2701HG-B) to replace the Westell for free. Today, we had a severe storm this morning and this afternoon with alot of ground lighting around the house, and the 2wire never lost sync once. So, if you are having this problem, you might try calling the support team and see if they will swap the modem to see if that will fix it.

The tech tried that line with me and I asked him to research it and that alot of people have had the same problem; that is when he put me on hold to check higher up the tech chain, then came back and said that it has been confirmed in certain areas that storms can cause this issue with Westell modems.

The 2wire is doing better than the Westell because my SN went up and became very steady while the DSL was tied to my POTS. I just last week had the DSL moved to the Fastaccess Direct and the signal got even better. The 2wire reports that my line can now go up to 14 M down / 1.5 M up and the tech said that was incredibly good since I am on the end of the old copper from the CO which is about a mile driving distance away.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768036 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:28:00 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20767974 Hayward :

said by dandeman

:

I have a Westell 6100 and I've never seen it interupted by lightning. I have IP addr monitoring software that catches every time the IP address changes (that will occur when the DSL connection goes down) and the IP addr changes when they do occur, do not correlate with lightning.

Only under 3mb service... 3mbs and above are all static IP no matter hown long the interuption. Haven't checked lately but even 1.5mbs may be static now too.
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20767974 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:07:34 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20767486 et1212 :

said by Mr_A1

Lucky you. This is the answer I got from tech support: we have never heard of such a problem.

Well, after switching to a netopia modem from a westell 6100, my lightening problem has been cured. I still don't have a good explanation but it worked for me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20767486 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:00:57 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20766433 Pashune :

said by Mr_A1

Wow. I never thought tech. support would actually come to admit that the Westells have that type of problem... heheh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20766433 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:31:12 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20765850 Mr_A1 : I had the same problem with my Westell 327w with lighting and heavy rain causing the modem to lose sync even if the storm was miles away on the old copper. I called tech support and after a few minutes on hold while the support person talked to someone higher up the chain, he came back a verified that the Westell modems do have this problem for some reason. They sent out the new 2wire Homeportal(2701HG-B) to replace the Westell for free. Today, we had a severe storm this morning and this afternoon with alot of ground lighting around the house, and the 2wire never lost sync once. So, if you are having this problem, you might try calling the support team and see if they will swap the modem to see if that will fix it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20765850 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:31:15 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20763781 dandeman : I have a Westell 6100 and I've never seen it interupted by lightning. I have IP addr monitoring software that catches every time the IP address changes (that will occur when the DSL connection goes down) and the IP addr changes when they do occur, do not correlate with lightning.

One possible major factor that could be the difference. The Westell 6100, network, and computers) are run from a commercial ferroresonant design UPS I have (with continuous 2000:1 line to load transient attenuation).

It could be that Westell 6100 power brick is susceptible to power line transients rather than the connection dropping from induced telco line noise from lightning.

I also have commercial quality lightning surge suppressors on the telco line but doubt that is a factor..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20763781 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:31:26 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20763659 dsldaddyo : Was there any consensus developed in this thread regarding best modem to use to avoid sync loss during lightening? It happens with my Westell 6100 every single time lightening is nearby. It's very frustrating, especially during this stormy time of year.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20763659 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:09:55 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20565582 rambo30117 : i thought your bug was a knat on my screen and started to swat it]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20565582 Fri, 30 May 2008 18:39:55 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20535028 NewLife : I have lost sync a couple of times, but it was coming major storms near our house. We recently moved and I had to decide to keep Bellsouth or switch to Comcast. Comcast was faster but reliability on Bellsouth was my deciding factor. I have to have a very stable connection and Bellsouth provides that for me. By the way, my modem is a Speedtouch Home.
--
With hurricanes,tornados,fires out of control,mud slides,flooding,severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another,and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks,are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20535028 Sat, 24 May 2008 19:58:09 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20533949 et1212 : Another update.

We had severe thunderstorms Friday (5/23) and my wife told me the service was interrupted once (I was not home). In the past, this would render the Westall 6100 unusable for the full duration of the storm (it would cut in and out constantly). So the new modem (Netopia 2210) does make a difference.

In addition, the modem log never reported any loss of connection. (While the log for Westall 6100 would show DSL coneection is lost). Apparently my connection between the router and the modem got interrupted (it does not show up in my router log, though). The disconnection also happens whenever I plug in an unfiltered phone cable to any wall socket in the house.

This is different from my past problem (the dsl actually lost sync).

My router DI-614+ is showing its age. I think I am going to use the modem as the router in the future to see this happens at all. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20533949 Sat, 24 May 2008 14:48:03 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497136 et1212 : Here comes the good part:

I got the bill today. ATT charged me $85 for paying a visit to my house and $75 for the modem.

If they do not waive these charges I will be back to cable service.

--- update 2.. They agreed to waive the charge]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497136 Sat, 17 May 2008 08:38:44 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497130 et1212 : Update:

After replacing the Westell 6100 modem with a Netopia 2210 modem we had a few thunderstorms but I was not home so I cannot tell for sure that the problem is solved. However the modem log shows no disconnection. So maybe modem does make a difference.

However I found out my service will be be disrupted whenever I plug an unfiltered line to any socket in the house. Do you have the same problem?
---
PS... The connection type changed from Interleaved to FAST.. I never had any CRC error with Westell but I have occasional crc error now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497130 Sat, 17 May 2008 08:35:49 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20489870 switched84 : just checking past posts...home networking is free for xtreme 6.0...jsut call billing and have it be added to your account...no additional charges....

-88]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20489870 Thu, 15 May 2008 21:14:52 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20436325 Canezoid : You don't have to because it's BS. Noise mitigation? LOL, I bet you actually think about that stuff don't you, please.

Cane out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20436325 Mon, 05 May 2008 19:07:21 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20435949 BigVe : If it's storming outside i unplug everything anyway so i really have no idea if bad weather like that will affect my connection.Call me chicken if you want but i have had enough damage from lightning thru my phoneline and don't need anymore if i can help it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20435949 Mon, 05 May 2008 17:56:59 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20353617 Pashune : Heh, lightning had struck my backyard just a few weeks ago, but did you think that Netopia was going lose sync? Nope, he just kept chuggin' along... chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga.. toot, tooooooot. Heh, smoke would have probably arisen from my Westell 6100 if it were being used at the time (extreme sarcasm).

The end result of the lightning strike? Well, my monitor had changed colors (I had to use degauss since I'm on a CRT) and I did lose a filter..so apparently SOMETHING was struck. I just sincerely hope my Netopia wasn't damaged at all in the process, though it was kind of my fault for leaving everything on...but then again, the storm woke me up and sent me to typing noaa.gov in my web browser..

Nothing else in my house (as far as I know) was affected.
--
I have achieved 3 meg , fastpath sync on a 15,700 ft. 26 ga copper line. =]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20353617 Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:00:04 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20345542 Splitpair :

said by Canezoid

:

I don't think it's debatable at all, as I said, just not buying the lightning thing.

Then you fail to understand the basics of noise mitigation and I am not going to take the time to convince you otherwise.

Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some bennies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20345542 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:16:34 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20345493 Canezoid : I don't think it's debatable at all, as I said, just not buying the lightning thing.

The OP's "count" per his location is riddled w/ DSL subscribers into his subdivision, as I'm also sure it's not the only 6100 on the field loop. With f2/f3 that large highley unlikely this would be the only one, that's all I'm trying to say.

I can also mention that there is the possibility of an over extention on the field side from his ped that may need to be looked at, but since the sync is not dropping more consistantly, might not even be an issue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20345493 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:08:20 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20345320 KeysCapt :

said by Splitpair

:

Not all modems are equal some models such as the Alcatel STH will hold synch when a lightning hit vaporizes the house next door yet it will not pull good margins at 17Kf conversely a Westell can work all day at 17Kf but a loud fart will cause it to drop synch.

Wayne

This quote gets my vote for the absolute best statement in this thread, and the award for best use of humor in a serious topic! Laughed out loud, I did.
It also pretty much puts the whole thing to bed, at least for me.

Thanks Wayne! Your dependability is second to none. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20345320 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:40:13 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20344093 heels_fan :

said by FAQFixer

:

As Wayne pointed out the Westell 6100's chipset is purposely very sensitive and has the ability to pick up usable signals at a lower SNR and greater distances than any previous modem. Since there is no free lunches in this world that increased sensitivity to pick up weak signals comes with the possibility to be easily overwhelmed by any interference. If you have a line that is marginal, not bonded, or susceptible to interference you run the risk of having more issues. The 2Wire is less sensitive and will not have as many interference issues, but won't pull a weak signal as well.

This isn't rocket science...just a trade off. Find out what your needs are and use the appropriate modem.

I have used a Westell 6100 for 3 years and have never lost synch in a storm. Even the bad storms that hit Atlanta about a month ago didn't have any effect. I was surfing in the lightning and hailstorms. My local loop is in good condition, less than 10 years old, and well bonded/grounded.

Well then, I will just hush up and count my blessings of having a good loop/bonding/grounding.

Now If I could just get off of this interleave profile I will be happy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20344093 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:55:42 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342974 RJ44 :

said by FAQFixer

:

This isn't rocket science...just a trade off. Find out what your needs are and use the appropriate modem.

I have used a Westell 6100 for 3 years and have never lost synch in a storm.

And to add support to your premise of the right modem for the right situation, I am on a very poor loop in an apartment complex, and the ONLY modem I have found that will hold sync for any amount of time with 6.0 is the STH. I get better margins with 2 Wires and Westells, but they resync every 1-2 hours all day long. Some kind of impulse noise the techs have never identified...but the STH holds sync for weeks at a time.

Oh yeah, there's a difference in modems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342974 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:44:19 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342864 FAQFixer : Here's my bad Analogy of the Day.

Increased sensitivity always comes with a trade off. It's analogous to using night vision goggles. When it's dark out the NVG's ability to amplify light gives you a much better vision than your natural eyes. Conversely, wear NVGs on the Las Vegas strip and it will overwhelm the NVGs and blind you even though your natural eyes aren't as affected (your wallet maybe...but not your eyes).

You need to evaluate how dark it is in your situation and what you want to see. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342864 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:24:39 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342751 Splitpair :

said by Canezoid

:

Trust me, if there were a bonding issue that was causing this problem, the OP wouldn't be the only one reporting something wrong.

That’s debatable there could be and in the real world are inductive interferers that hit the entire count which have little or no effect on most services carried on that cable yet a Westell with it’s ultra-sensitive front end gets swamped and goes under while the other DSL and xDSL services ride out the interference.

Not all modems are equal some models such as the Alcatel STH will hold synch when a lightning hit vaporizes the house next door yet it will not pull good margins at 17Kf conversely a Westell can work all day at 17Kf but a loud fart will cause it to drop synch.

Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some bennies you ain't a technician.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342751 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:05:33 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342708 mikes60 :

said by FAQFixer

Very well stated. I used Westells for over 5 years here in the lightning capital of the world. I'ts a 7 year old development that was built with all new equipment and evidently good bonding. I have never lost sync, even during the most violent lightning storms. One of my neighbors homes was actually hit by lightning while I maintained sync.
--
No good deed goes unpunished.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342708 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:58:41 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342681 FAQFixer : As Wayne pointed out the Westell 6100's chipset is purposely very sensitive and has the ability to pick up usable signals at a lower SNR and greater distances than any previous modem. Since there is no free lunches in this world that increased sensitivity to pick up weak signals comes with the possibility to be easily overwhelmed by any interference. If you have a line that is marginal, not bonded, or susceptible to interference you run the risk of having more issues. The 2Wire is less sensitive and will not have as many interference issues, but won't pull a weak signal as well.

This isn't rocket science...just a trade off. Find out what your needs are and use the appropriate modem.

I have used a Westell 6100 for 3 years and have never lost synch in a storm. Even the bad storms that hit Atlanta about a month ago didn't have any effect. I was surfing in the lightning and hailstorms. My local loop is in good condition, less than 10 years old, and well bonded/grounded. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342681 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:52:16 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342664 jps_valdosta : I had the same issues with my Westell after I went to 6.0. I got fed up with it last week after a 4 hour storm and decided to order a 2-Wire. I love all diagnostics the modem provides and I noticed a few things about my line over the last 2 days after installing the 2-wire.

1. My downstream SNR is now a solid 13 instead of a fluctuating 6-11 with the Westell.
2. 48 hours without a single resync when the norm with the Westell was 1 or 2 resyncs a day.
3. According the the 2-wire diagnostics, my line can support rates up to 12000. Thats nice to know!

Maybe my Westell was acting up or going bad, but I definitly see a better quality connection with the 2-Wire and I will be waiting on the next storm to see how it behaves. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342664 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:49:46 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342605 heels_fan : Am I the only one reading here that does not have problems with the westells and lightning?

It seems like that is all I am hearing.
KeysCapt

I understand what you are saying. I wonder if distance from the CO or whatever has anything to do with it?
--
everyone is born ignorant. some are born stupid, others achieve stupidity and the rest have stupidity thrust upon them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342605 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:35:32 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342512 KeysCapt :

said by attdsltech1 :

It doesn't make a hill of beans of difference what modem u use.....if the dsl signal is being interrupted by high power influence ANY modem will lose sync.....10 yrs exp has told me that.

With no disrespect to your experience and knowledge, that just doesn't agree with the results ... and I had a tech out Saturday who agreed that he had replaced a bunch of Westells with 2Wire modems, *JUST* to deal with the lightning issue. And they were all successful.

Again, I never had a problem until I upgraded to X6.0, and as soon as I did, the lightning disconnects began. Just as soon as the Westell was replaced with a 2Wire, they stopped, and stopped for good.

I don't say it makes sense, or is technically supportable, but I know what I see and what ~~Bellsouth~~ AT&T tech personnel unofficially acknowledge.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20342512 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:16:24 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20339979 et1212 : well, I'll keep monitoring to see if a modem change solved the problem. Will report back.

I really dislike my cable co. so I hope this would work.

It is a good argument that a lot more people would be affected if it is a bonding issue. However since the drops are very brief so I bet most people won't even notice it (I happened to notice this since my router takes a long time to reconnect once the dsl connection is lost; so I have to manually reconnect from my router). ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20339979 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:44:20 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20339788 Canezoid : That may be a good conclusion from what point of the loop? Not trying to rain on your post, I'm just not buyin' the lightning thing, other plant or IW/CPE but not weather.

Anything induced on the plant in that area causing probs would mess a whole lot of people up. Trust me, if there were a bonding issue that was causing this problem, the OP wouldn't be the only one reporting something wrong. Let's just say the subdivision is on the upscale side, like Atlanta Braves live in there, basketball players, AT&T/Bellsouth execs, get the picture?

Anyhoo, we'll see.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20339788 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:07:16 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20338941 anon : the most likely problem that everyone here is experiencing is a bonding issue in the OUTSIDE plant of the network. If that is the case, MOST phone tech ( and defiantly the contractors) will miss diagnose the problem and go to the old standby....give u a new modem. This not an easy problem to detect. And just for the record......It doesn't make a hill of beans of difference what modem u use.....if the dsl signal is being interrupted by high power influence ANY modem will lose sync.....10 yrs exp has told me that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20338941 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:21:13 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20335726 Airwolf7 :

said by et1212

:

(he would not give me the 2-wire modem as I only have Xtreme 6.0 without home networking service).

You should have slipped him a Fifty and told him to stick it in his pocket. ;)

Just kidding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20335726 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:59:52 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20334364 et1212 : Canezoid, please see my pm.

Update:

Tech visited my house and found nothing wrong (I was not home so I really don't know what he did -- talked to him over the phone as he was really confused). I finally convinced him to replace my Westell 6100 modem with a Motorola Netopia 2210-02-1006 (he would not give me the 2-wire modem as I only have Xtreme 6.0 without home networking service).

I'll watch it during the next thunder storm to see if it makes any difference.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20334364 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:30:05 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327113 Canezoid : Where in Mableton are you? Please see my PM]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327113 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:54:20 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321049 et1212 : I contacted the help-desk through email and they replied that the lightening problem is caused by wiring and they wanted to send a tech out. But I rather try to replace the modem first.

We had thunderstorm in Atlanta early tonight -- of course the modem acted up again.
----
Update, I called the help desk and asked for a different modem but the CSR cannot ship one to me withour charging me but she said she will send a tech out and the tech will bring an extra modem (I specifically asked for a 2wire modem) and may leave that modem with me if he could not find any other problem. We will see...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321049 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:11:29 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321037 heels_fan : Again today, we had several torndoes and very severe thunderstorms in my area.

I did not lose sync whatsoever.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321037 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:07:31 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319881 KeysCapt :

said by heels_fan

:

Last night we had several thunder/lightning storms to roll through.
I left my PC/modem downloading a large .iso file overnight. When I went back to check my MRTG graphs this morning, there was not even a glitch in the graphs, my modem did not drop sync.

I guess I am a lucky dog, eh?

I really wonder what the difference is. There certainly are enough people who experienced the problem to accept it as real; as I mentioned before the Help Desk isn't unaware of it because they sent me the 2wire without question when I complained about the lightning problem, and my account was rock-steady until the upgrade to X6.0 ... then lightning in Nome, Alaska would cause loss of sync for me in SoFla.

I don't get it, but here in lightning-ville, I haven't had a single loss of sync since installing the 2wire.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319881 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:14:31 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20317395 asjamias :

said by Airwolf7

:

Did anyone that was an existing FastAccess DSL Xtreme 3.0 or FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 customer upgrade online to the FREE Home Networking and get a Home Networking Wireless Gateway for $100.00 and then get a rebate for it on their phone bill to make it FREE?

I'm confused about the wording on the ordering page where you upgrade to the FREE Home Networking with a $100.00 Wireless Gateway FREE after rebate for online orders only.

Does anyone know the answer to this thing that puzzles me?

when I first signed up, i bundled everything and got a westell 6100 modem but had to pay for it in 10 payments SINCE I CALLED IN MY ORDER, IF I DID IT ONLINE THE MODEM WOULD HAVE BEEN FREE. but then I did it over the phone to make sure I get all the rebates I could get. their mistake was that they shipped me an extra one. when i transferred to the triple choice unlimited plan WHEN I CALLED THEM, i got a free westell 327w since i had 3.0 service. I was always skeptical about ordering services online with bellsouth to begin with.

before i hooked up everything, i made sure i had the whole house surge protector installed at my service entrance and used a leviton power strip with surge protection only for the leviton panel i had where the modem and switch reside.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20317395 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:43:27 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20317246 heels_fan : Last night we had several thunder/lightning storms to roll through.
I left my PC/modem downloading a large .iso file overnight. When I went back to check my MRTG graphs this morning, there was not even a glitch in the graphs, my modem did not drop sync.

I guess I am a lucky dog, eh?
--
everyone is born ignorant. some are born stupid, others achieve stupidity and the rest have stupidity thrust upon them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20317246 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:08:10 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20316188 et1212 : Again, thanks for all your help. I had to get out of town unexpectedly so I did not follow up.

(1) Sent a request to ATT and still waiting for them to get back to me on whether the router can be had for free after rebate (for an existing customer). I have the "help-line" phobia and do not call the help line until it is absolutely/positively necessary -- 99% of the time I don't get any help anyway. I may just buy a modem/router so I don't have to deal with the hassles.

(2) I used a phone to test the jack on the EBN. If I pressed it down really hard, I get a dial tone. But it is too much trouble to hold it down while I test the modem so I will not test my connection there. The Bell South tech who installed my modem actually wrote a lot info in the NID --the SN atten and speed are close to what I get indoor. So I'll let it go and assume everything is ok with my house wiring.

I'll update once I have any new info. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20316188 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:41:22 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20315214 anon : I believe existing DSL Xtreme 3.0 & 6.0 customers with the free HN account & order the wireless gateway online will not get the 100$ rebate. This also includes existing DSL Lite & Ultra customers with the HN plan.
Only DSL Lite & Ultra customers (with or without the HN plan) who upgrade to the DSL Xtreme 3.0/6.0 service will get the 100$ rebate. Oh yeah even new cutomers opting for the 3.0/6.0 service. I'm not sure about new customers who wants the Lite/Ultra plus HN who orders the wireless modem online. By the way Xtreme 3.0/6.0 has the free HN service included.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20315214 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:22:48 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20311624 Drex : I got a $20 upgrade rebate. The check actually came pretty quick as I've already cashed it.
--
I gave up drinking and eating bad food. And in 14 days, I had lost 2 weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20311624 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:09:01 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20308378 Airwolf7 : Have you checked the AT&T Reward Center.

»rewardcenter.att.com/

Have you checked the BellSouth Reward Center.

»bellsouthrewardcenter.com/promoc···ex.shtml

It has been worded on the ordering page as to the Home Networking Wireless Gateway being $100.00 FREE after rebate with online orders only for as long as I can remember.

It was like that when it was BellSouth and has still been like that since it became AT&T Southeast.

I sure hope that it's FREE after rebate.

I suggested to and ordered online this Wireless Gateway for about five people here in my hometown so they would not have to buy a separate wireless router and would have a device that was officially supported by the FastAccess Help Desk.

I'm going to have to go through my records and see who it was that I did this for and call them up to see if the got rebated or not.

I told these fellows to check both reward centers and their emails from AT&T Southeast/BellSouth to make sure that they would get their reward and I have not heard anything back from them saying that they had or had not received the rebate.

Some of these people don't pay close attention to their bills and probably would not have noticed one way or another especially since it was just $10.00 and that would be easy to overlook.

I know these fellows don't look very close because I have caught billing mistakes and third party billers screwing them over before and had the billing mistakes corrected and had the third party billers refund their money then got the phone company to block third party billing on their account for them.

A lot of these fellows probably would not even call me up and tell me that they did not get a rebate because they were having so much problems with their DSL losing sync and their computers running bad and others problems that they could never get anyone to fix until they got me to come over a check everything out and get it fixed up for them that they would never think to call me up a fuss over $10.00 per month for ten months to get a nice Wireless Gateway. These fellows were so happy to finally get their problems fixed, plus I helped them get some of those bundles to save them money on their bills that they would not bother a fellow over something like this.

.
.
.

I'm starting to feel bad now.

Did anyone that was an existing FastAccess DSL Xtreme 3.0 or FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 customer upgrade online to the FREE Home Networking and get a Home Networking Wireless Gateway for $100.00 and then get a rebate for it on their phone bill to make it FREE?

I'm confused about the wording on the ordering page where you upgrade to the FREE Home Networking with a $100.00 Wireless Gateway FREE after rebate for online orders only.

Does anyone know the answer to this thing that puzzles me?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20308378 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:31:06 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20307138 Drex :

said by Airwolf7

said by Drex

said by Airwolf7

Figures...I go and upgrade to 6.0 BEFORE they do the free modem promotion. BAH!

Drex, Look at my above reply to et1212 for more information about AT&T Home Networking and the AT&T Wireless Gateway.

I already upgraded to the 6.0 online, but they weren't offering the modem for free after rebate. Unfortunately, I'm being charged the $10/month until it's paid off. I'm not sure if I can call and see about getting the rebate after the fact. Might be worth 10 minutes of my time.
--
I gave up drinking and eating bad food. And in 14 days, I had lost 2 weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20307138 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:49:54 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20306571 Airwolf7 :

said by et1212

:

(a) Why does the margin at startup (log) is at 20 but go down to as low as 11.5 at the DSL screen. Is this too low?

(b) Tx power is negative US? I believe this is common/

(c) Ds Tx power too high?

(d) why can't I get it to sync at the test jack at the EBN?

(a) They always seems to do that. It seems like it takes a short while for it to settle down and find it's groove. I guess that it is more optimistic at when it first connects and after it settles down and finds it's groove it become more pessimistic about how favorable the conditions actually are. I have noticed that the Downstream SNR Margin seems to fluctuate within a certain range. Mine is between 11.5dB to 15.5dB and I would assume that is due to the fact that my line is not all by it's self but is in a binder with many other lines that are creating their own varying amount of noise. ADSL2+ seems to be relatively happy at 9.0dB of above and ADSL1 seems to be relatively happy at 12dB or above.

(b) I always seen it as a negative number with ADSL2/2+.

(c) It's probably not to high. I guess that they have to scream pretty loud once you get to the high speeds like 6.0, but I don't know for sure.

(d) The stuff inside of the Test Jack is a sealing gel. Push your phone cable firmly into the Test Jack until it clicks into place and you can not pull it out without pressing the release tang on your phone cable. If you test it with a corded phone and have a dial-tone then unplug the phone cable from the phone and plug it into the DSL modem that way you know that the cable is good.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20306571 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:34:00 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20306198 Airwolf7 :

said by Drex

said by Airwolf7

Figures...I go and upgrade to 6.0 BEFORE they do the free modem promotion. BAH!

Drex, Look at my above reply to et1212 for more information about AT&T Home Networking and the AT&T Wireless Gateway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20306198 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:00:56 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20305905 Airwolf7 :

said by et1212

:

Airwolf7: I read the rebate language carefully and think I can get the "free after rebate" only at the time of a new order. I'll try to call/email and get some clarification.

I wish I had checked around before ordering-- should have gone for the router in the first place.

I think that it is FREE after rebate with online orders only.

I think that also applies for existing customers that have FastAccess DSL Xtreme or Xtreme 6.0 and I sure hope that is the case because I'm going to have several people in my hometown mad at me if it is not.

What is below is from section 2 of the Pricing Terms and Conditions

"AT&T® Home Networking is $5.00 per month. An AT&T Wireless Gateway is required for service. AT&T® Home Networking is available with FastAccess DSL Xtreme and Xtreme 6.0 at no additional charge. Offer is available to existing FastAccess DSL Xtreme and Xtreme 6.0 customers upon request."

It states that an AT&T Wireless Gateway is required for AT&T Home Networking service. It states that the AT&T Home Networking offer is available to existing FastAccess DSL Xtreme and Xtreme 6.0 customers upon request.

By ordering it online you are requesting the offer.

While ordering AT&T Home Networking online it states that there is a charge of $0.00 for it and it states that the AT&T Wireless Gateway is $100.00 and is FREE after rebate with online orders only.

.
.
.

I very well could be wrong about all of this and I would hate to see someone order this and find out latter that the rebate does not apply to existing customers.

I believe it does by the way that it is worded and due to the fact that is says so during the online ordering process.

I printed out all of the information about this offer when I was helping the people here where I live order this and will raise seven kinds of Hell if they do not get their rebates.

I have not heard anything back from these people that I helped that would lead me to believe that they did not receive their AT&T Wireless Gateway for FREE after rebate.

I made it very clear to them that this Wireless Gateway would be FREE after rebate and to check and make sure that they were not charged for it.

I would expect that they would be calling me and fussing at me if it were not so, sometimes people do not check things like this and they may have overlooked it.

If I had thought that this AT&T Wireless Gateway was going to cost them $100.00 then I would have just got them a Linksys WRT54G wireless router and set it up with their existing modem for way less money because you can pick one of these up at Walmart for $45.00. I wanted them to have the AT&T Wireless Gateway because it would be officially supported by the Help Desk in case for some reason I could not be able to help them in the future.

I have not ordered one of these myself because I have no need for one but I do intend to order one. Right now I don't want to do anything that might would make me have to call these people up and talk to them about anything because I'm still pissed off to no end over the ordeal I had with them over an AT&T Managed Internet Services T1 line. I will try to the best of my abilities to never put myself into a position where I might have to call them up and talk to them if I don't have to. If you will look at my first picture you will see that I pay the old price of $46.95 for Xtreme 6.0 when Xtreme 6.0 is now $42.95 and for $4.00 a month it is worth it to me to not have to call them and change it on the off chance that something might happen to cause my head to explode.

Don't take anything that I say as the truth. Call them up and ask them to be sure. If you call six different people there you will probably get three that will say it is FREE after rebate and three that won't.

I sure hope that it is free after rebate.
Payment and Billing Options.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20305905 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:33:47 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20305132 et1212 :

said by Airwolf7

:

Make sure that you check the DSL Statistics at the phone jack that it is plugged into now before checking them at the "Test Jack" at the NID or INI so you will have something to compare them with.

Very strange ... I can not get the modem to sync at the test jack on the EBN.. tried different cables with/w/o filters and it did not work. (I forgot to see if regular telephone would work, though - it is too dark out now). BTW this jack seems to be filled up with some glue by the phone company???

Stats when connected to inside jack:

s/n 11.5 to 16.5 down ---- 24 up
(down was much better at 18-20 before)
atten 20 down ---- 8.5 up
CRC errors 0 ---- 0
down sync 8125 ---- up sync 511

at the log:

US atten 8.5 --- DS atten 20
US Margin 24 --- DS Margin 20
US tx power -14.9 (??)--- DS TX Power 18.3 (?? too high?)
US DSL Rate 511 --- DS DSL rate 8124

(a) Why does the margin at startup (log) is at 20 but go down to as low as 11.5 at the DSL screen. Is this too low?

(b) Tx power is negative US? I believe this is common/

(c) Ds Tx power too high?

(d) why can't I get it to sync at the test jack at the EBN?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20305132 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:08:56 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20304221 et1212 : Airwolf7: I read the rebate language carefully and think I can get the "free after rebate" only at the time of a new order. I'll try to call/email and get some clarification.

I wish I had checked around before ordering-- should have gone for the router in the first place.

I will post the stats as you suggested later tonight. I remember I checked them when I first got the dsl service and was happy with the results (and the connection is good in the past 4 months as long as the weather is fine). But, you are right, it does not hurt to double check. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20304221 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:11:02 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20304166 et1212 :

said by noone special :

have seen poorly bonded homes (power neutral ground) cause intermittent troubles on sync rates @ oni. ie loose ground wire on ground rod @ power meter.

How can I test to see if this is a problem for me? I apologize if this is a stupid question. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20304166 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:02:11 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301628 anon : have seen poorly bonded homes (power neutral ground) cause intermittent troubles on sync rates @ oni. ie loose ground wire on ground rod @ power meter.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301628 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:19:06 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301135 brandon :

said by KeysCapt

:

In spite of the 'expert' comments to the contrary, I had the lightning problem as the OP described with two different Westell modems, after upgrading to xtreme 6.0 ...

I replaced the Westells with a 2wire 2701HG and the problem disappeared.

Same. Two westell 6100s, both disconnected in storms. Westell 2100, Alcatel STH, and now Netopia 3346 all perfect during storms.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301135 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:24:55 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301130 Drex :

said by Airwolf7

Figures...I go and upgrade to 6.0 BEFORE they do the free modem promotion. BAH!
--
I gave up drinking and eating bad food. And in 14 days, I had lost 2 weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301130 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:23:44 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301015 KeysCapt : In spite of the 'expert' comments to the contrary, I had the lightning problem as the OP described with two different Westell modems, after upgrading to xtreme 6.0 ...

I replaced the Westells with a 2wire 2701HG and the problem disappeared.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301015 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:30:31 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20299538 impala : Yes. Using a Westell 327W at 1.5Mbps G.DMT Mode interleaved on a dirty line. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20299538 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:23:13 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20297117 Airwolf7 : Make sure that you check the DSL Statistics at the phone jack that it is plugged into now before checking them at the "Test Jack" at the NID or INI so you will have something to compare them with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20297117 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:58:31 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20296689 et1212 :

said by Airwolf7

:

I reckon we should look into that before jumping the gun and getting a new modem.

Will do this (maybe tomorrow -- will have to go to a dinner tonight and, most likely, watch the game.
Thanks a lot for your help. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20296689 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:44:59 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20295026 Hayward :

said by Airwolf7

:

Hayward, I don't have any idea why some people can have a Westell 6100 in the lightning capital of the world and never have a problem and some people will have nothing but problems with their Westell 6100 when it storms.

Well again that sort of screams line and not modem... even if stats are good in norm conditions... the line is seeing storm surges all can go to hell.... and maybe the 6100's are just good at saying hey I'll let go for a sec before I fry myself for no reason... or whatever.

But again I would attribute it more to the given line conditions and not the modem per se.

And I have the historical line monitor graphs from here to show it, even if I wasn't there doing something a very flat line ping and green all the way across unless I actually shut it down. Of course as I recall that is only once every 10 min pinged.

And then another thing do these people also have their PPPoE software or router set to be always connected? And OK maybe for 30 sec I wasn't doing anything might have been disconnected, but it reconnected no problem and I'm not a 24/7/365 full bore downloader of the world... to maybe notice that 10 sec failure ;)
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20295026 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 02:30:48 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294970 Airwolf7 : »AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ 2Wire Info

Yes you can Bridge it.

It does 802.11B (11Mbps) and 802.11G (54Mbps).

I think that it also can do Super G (108Mbps) if your wireless adapter supports it. The last one that I set up had a laptop connected to it at a reported speed of 108Mbps, but I did not test it to make sure.

It only does 10/100 on it's four ethernet ports as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure that it will not do 10/100/1000.

When you order it you will have the option of billing it to your account in one lump sum of $100.00 or ten payments of $10.00 and if you do the ten payments of $10.00 it won't be such a big hit all at once if for some reason you don't get your rebate. Make sure that you read the Terms and Conditions before you jump in and get one.

.
.
.

Before you do anything else post your DSL Statistics and lets see what they look like. Maybe they are crappy and that could be causing your loss of sync issues with your Westell 6100 when it is storming.

How do I check modem stats & event logs? What do the numbers mean?

How do I check modem statistics, synch rates & speeds at the NID? (Residential Housing)

How do I check modem statistics, synch rates & speeds at the INI? (Residential Apartment)

I reckon we should look into that before jumping the gun and getting a new modem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294970 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:38:55 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294947 Airwolf7 : I have had just about every modem that BellSouth has released to their customers and the only one that loses sync when it lightnings is any of the forty eleven Westell 6100 modems that I have owned.

Mine will only lose sync if lightning is hitting shit out in the back yard.

A fellow that lives about a block away from me had a Westell 2200 that pooped out on him and I gave him a brand new in the box Westell 6100 model C90-610030-06 and he called me up one day and said that he can't use the Internet if it is storming because the DSL LED is always flashing when it storms.

I gave him a Netopia 2241N-006 and he has had no problems since then.

He recently called me and asked what would be a good wireless router to get to work with his Netopia 2241N-006 and how much would it cost and I told him that he could get a FREE 2Wire 2701HG-B and he has had no problems with it either.

I would bet money that I could take a Westell 6100 back over to his house and it would lose sync every time it stormed.

His would lose sync if it is lightning in the next county and mine will only lose sync if the lightning is hitting stuff in my yard.

We both have Xtreme 6.0 with the same Siecor/Corning ADSL/POTS splitter and are both connected to the CO on High Street and his DSL Statistics are way better than mine.

My Downstream SNR Margin is 12dB and Upstream SNR Margin is 12dB with a Downstream Line Attenuation of 14B and an Upstream Line Attenuation of 7dB.

His Downstream SNR Margin is 21dB and Upstream SNR Margin is 14dB with a Downstream Line Attenuation of 12dB and an Upstream Line Attenuation of 5dB.

His DSL Statistics are way better than mine but for some reason when it storms a Westell 6100 on his line hides in the closet and cries until the storm has passed and on my line a Westell 6100 does not care about storms unless lightning is hitting the trees in my back yard.

Hayward, I don't have any idea why some people can have a Westell 6100 in the lightning capital of the world and never have a problem and some people will have nothing but problems with their Westell 6100 when it storms.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294947 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:27:49 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294842 Hayward : Oh and you think Key West is immune to lightning do you?

OK maybe I have the ONE good 6100 (actually two for the brief time I attempted 6.0... neither has EVER failed because of lightning I have noticed... and now have a back up should I need it.

Then again being high lightning and hurricane resistant infrastructure most of SO FL isn't why you never heard 70% of KW was under 3=8 ft of water in Wilma....

No just all the just thrown TOOTHPICKS fell over in MIA/DADE When Wilma was less than half the strength it it hit KW with... Again Cat 3 with 13 ft storm surge on an aveverage 6 fto above sea level island... vs PIDDLING hardly Cat 1 wehrn it hit MIA and knocked over the TOOTHPICKS and had them without power for a MONTH in many areas.

No you are not suffering MODEM problems you are suffering lame ASSED infrastructure.... not that other modems might not reconnect better... but you still need something to reconnect to!

Pretty much we had power back in 48 hours at Cat 3 vs 1 MIA got.... and much of that delay was waiting for areas to full drain/dry so people didn't acciddentaly electrocute themselves, not that it couldn't have been done sooner

Sorry just don't believe the 6100 BS I was a bit too far though approved for 6.0.... but 6100 has been ROCK solid for 3.0... and through several power failures (life at the end of the 150 mile ext cord from MIA) with UPS, cable was a lost deal for those relying on Cumcast... But Laptop (its own battery) DSL and 6100 were flawless.
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294842 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:38:46 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294794 Airwolf7 :

said by Hayward

said by Airwolf7

:

Let me guess, you have a Westell 6100 modem.

I don't understand. What is total BS?

Is the fact that lots of people have noticed when it is lightning their modem loses sync and they also notice their modem is a Westell 6100 total BS?

Is it total BS when they replace their Westell 6100 modem with any modem that is not a Westell 6100 their problems go away?

I don't have anything against the Westell 6100. I like the Westell 6100.

It just seems like under certain conditions the Westell 6100 loses sync a lot when it is lightning. Some people have Westell 6100 modems and say that it does not lose sync even if lightning strikes their house multiple times in a row. Maybe their line conditions are very different then the people that have the problems with the Westell 6100 and lightning.

Most people that have Westell 6100 modems and replace them with another modem don't have any more problems with lightning after that.

Do a search of the AT&T Southeast forum for Westell 6100 and lightning and see what you come up with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294794 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:23:01 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294765 et1212 :

said by Splitpair

said by nwrickert

:

From your description, I suspect that part of the line connecting you to the CO is aerial, and is acting as an antenna and picking up the noise from the thunderstorm.

Na most of the effect that an indirect lightning hit has on Telco cables is inductive which affect aerial as well as buried cables. The problem comes in where the bonding of the cable opens (most commonly at splices) rendering the sheath ineffective in it’s ability to isolate the pairs within from the effects of inductance.

FWIW those are the same bonding problems that cause the loss of synch in the evenings troubles only instead of lightning being the cause its power influence from the increased load on the single phase electrical distribution commonly used in residential areas. PI is something that I have been preaching about for years and is now finally being discovered by the masses in the OSP world.

Wayne

I am not 100 sure I understand it. But I assume, if you are right, there is noting I can do, correct?

Neil0311 had not such problem with Wetell6100 (he is not too far away from me), so I am a little confused. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294765 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:13:32 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294744 et1212 :

said by Airwolf7

:

You have FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 and you are using a Westell 6100 in conjunction with a D-Link wireless router, so why don't you order yourself an AT&T HomeNetworking Wireless Gateway from AT&T for FREE after rebate and have yourself an all in one unit that is supported by the FastAccess DSL Help Desk.

It will probably be a 2Wire 2701HG-B and even though I have made some disparaging comments about 2Wire products in the past after ordering several of these and setting them up for my customers I have come to really like this unit and will be getting one for myself in the near future.

I guess it does not hurt to give it a shot...especially since I have some problem between DI614+ and the Westell 6100.

I did not do more research, but

(a) would the 2Wire 2701HG-B work in bridge mode if I upgrade the wireless-N in the future?
(b) I assume the Wireless G adapters would work with this unit?
(c) I assume there are 4 100/1000 wired ports?

For my network traffic, I still use wired connection as much as possible (love my gigabit connection to my NAS)

I also had some problems with ATT rebate, hope this is not going to be a problem

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help, Airwolf. I rally appreciate.

---- Of course, I appreciate everyone else's input a lot too ------]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294744 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:09:19 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294670 Hayward :

said by Airwolf7

:

Let me guess, you have a Westell 6100 modem.

Oh please that is total BS.... I have had briefly 6.0 service ant bordr line distance but approved, that was very eratic, but also close and qualified but enough it was a problem no matter how tweaked... 3.0 ROCK SOLID bu there are LIMITS

Just because some thing is offered doesn't mean it works in ALL cases,
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20294670 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:54:00 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292736 Airwolf7 :

said by heels_fan

:

my modem is the westel B90-610030-06 with a Rev level of C.
It is the little black westel

The little bitty Westell 6100 I was talking about would probably fit inside of the older model Westell 6100 modems.

I think that they are model number E90-610030-06. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292736 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:36:54 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292715 Airwolf7 : The easiest way to fix your problem is to get rid of your Westell 6100 modem.

I'm assuming that your Westell 6100 runs fine at all other times and only has problems during lightning storms.

You have FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 and you are using a Westell 6100 in conjunction with a D-Link wireless router, so why don't you order yourself an AT&T HomeNetworking Wireless Gateway from AT&T for FREE after rebate and have yourself an all in one unit that is supported by the FastAccess DSL Help Desk.

It will probably be a 2Wire 2701HG-B and even though I have made some disparaging comments about 2Wire products in the past after ordering several of these and setting them up for my customers I have come to really like this unit and will be getting one for myself in the near future.

.
.
.

Read my reply to another fellow about how to order this FREE AT&T HomeNetworking with a FREE after rebate AT&T HomeNetworking Wireless Gateway.
»Re: [Speed Problem] yoyo speeds on 6.0 ,I had solid speeds on 3.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292715 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:30:46 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292262 neil0311 : Westell 6100 here in the Atlanta area with no issues at all. In fact, a couple of weeks ago when we had the severe t-storms and tornadoes, I was using my laptop to track the radar as one of the storms passed over us. Never had any problems with connectivity. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20292262 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:28:20 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291768 Splitpair :

said by nwrickert

:

From your description, I suspect that part of the line connecting you to the CO is aerial, and is acting as an antenna and picking up the noise from the thunderstorm.

Na most of the effect that an indirect lightning hit has on Telco cables is inductive which affect aerial as well as buried cables.

Wayne

--
Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, sirens in my head
Wrapped up in silence, all circuits are dead
Cannot decode - my whole life spins into a frenzy
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291768 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:46:33 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291521 nwrickert :

How can I tell if the problem is related to house wiring?

When I was seeing lightning problems related to house wiring, I was also losing sync too often when there was no lightning.

Sorry for confusing you about that.

If you hold solid sync when there are no thunderstorms around, then the problem is not likely to be house wiring. If the problem occurs even when the thunderstorm is distant (not overhead), then this is unlikely to be related to house wiring.

From your description, I suspect that part of the line connecting you to the CO is aerial, and is acting as an antenna and picking up the noise from the thunderstorm. When the amount of noise reaches a level comparable to the dsl signal, you lose sync.

Okay, that's only guesswork, based on what I have seen with other reports of similar problems. If I am right, there probably isn't much you can do about it.
--
AT&T dsl; Westell 327w modem/router; SuSE 10.1; firefox 2.0.0.13]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291521 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:52:17 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291333 heels_fan : my modem is the westel B90-610030-06 with a Rev level of C.
It is the little black westel]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291333 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:05:19 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291319 et1212 : I have a small Westell 6100.

How can I tell if the problem is related to house wiring? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291319 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 11:02:24 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291123 nwrickert : I do not have any problem with thunderstorms. Incidently, I happen to use a Westell modem - currently a 327w, previously a 2200. I doubt that the modem is the problem.

When I first got DSL, I did lose sync when there was nearby lightning, but not with distant lightning. That problem went away when I corrected problems in the house wiring.

I am a fair way from the CO, with my attenuation around 55 (at one time it was 58, till the techs removed some bridge taps).

Another AT&T midwest user, dslwanter

, has had a lot of trouble with lightning, even in the distance. He has had several threads on this.

The primary difference between my service and dslwanter

's service, is that my line (back to the CO) is underground, while his is aerial.

The circumstances for lightning (even in the distance) causing problems appear to be high line attenuation (long distance from the CO), and a significant part of the line from the CO is aerial (i.e. above ground).
--
AT&T dsl; Westell 327w modem/router; SuSE 10.1; firefox 2.0.0.13]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291123 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:57:32 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291068 Splitpair :

said by et1212

:

It is a Westell 6100... Can I can demand a different modem from ATT? If not, is there any good modem I can buy myself?

The problem is with the Westell they have a very sensitive front end that can pick a signal out of dirt but it doesn't handle the induced noise of a lightning hit very well.

You could swap out the modem for a less sensitive one but that might introduce other new problems if you are running over 3 meg.

Wayne

--
Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, sirens in my head
Wrapped up in silence, all circuits are dead
Cannot decode - my whole life spins into a frenzy
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20291068 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 09:33:57 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20290547 Airwolf7 : There seems to be some talk that poor grounding/bonding is a factor with the Westell 6100 regarding lightning issues because it is a very sensitive modem and your grounding/bonding might be in great shape.

heels_fan, is your Westell 6100 one of those little Westell 6100 models? I think that they are E90-610030-06 model.

The reason why I'm asking is because the models before the E model are based on the retail model Westell 6100 and have lots of components missing on the circuit board and maybe the circuity is not as well tuned as it could be with these components missing.

The little E model Westell 6100 is a lot smaller and I would guess that it probably does not have missing components and this new circuit board, because it is smaller and newer, might not have these problems due to the fact that the Westell engineers might have tuned the circuity differently based on the new layout and possible feedback from the field about lightning sensitivity issues.

I really don't know about any of this because I'm just guessing, but it sounds plausible. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20290547 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:16:46 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20290253 heels_fan : I live in Middle TN. We have some very bad storms to come through from time to time,especially in the Spring.

My westel 6100 has never lost sync during a lightning or a thunderstorm.
For instance just the other night, lightning struck a tree about 45 yards from my house.
The tree is all burnt on one side all the way to the ground.
My modem nor my DSL connection ever dropped sync.

I guess I am special, according to all the talk about westels and thunder/lightning storms.
--
everyone is born ignorant. some are born stupid, others achieve stupidity and the rest have stupidity thrust upon them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20290253 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:27:38 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20290003 thedragonmas : ive had the same problem for years. ive gotten so used to it when i hear thunder i find something else to do. storm can be a full county away and still knock out the dsl. tho i am 19,200 feet from the dslam so im not gonna be picky :|]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20290003 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:15:32 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20289287 et1212 : He-he, very funny.

I mean thundering and lightening at a good distance from me...

All my equipments are on pretty good grade UPS'. I build my own pc's -- good psu on UPS is a must-have for me.

It is a Westell 6100... Can I can demand a different modem from ATT? If not, is there any good modem I can buy myself? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20289287 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:28:58 EDT Re: Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20289154 Airwolf7 : Let me guess, you have a Westell 6100 modem.

Note: If it is thundering and lightning with tornadoes whirling around outside then leave the computer alone and get somewhere safe and hide.

I have seen the Westell 6100 do this a few times , but not to many times because when it is doing that outside I normally turn off my equipment and disconnect it from the power outlet and phone jack then I find some nice to hide.

If it tornadoes I just hide, screw the computers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20289154 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:49:12 EDT Is your DSL connection interrupted by Lightening? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20288834 et1212 : Recently we have a lot of thunder storms (even tornadoes) in Atlanta area. I have noticed that my DSL connection would drop intermittently (most of the time it only drops for a few seconds, occasionally up to two minutes). I have noticed this every time there is any lightening outside.

Anyone has the same problem? Is this a system wide problem or is it local? Or is there something wrong with my modem?

Also, it takes my router (DI614+) a long time to detect that the internet connection is dropped (I had "auto reconnect" checked) -- I have to manually disconnect to force it to reconnect. I wonder if you have the same kind of problem with your router.... Any recommendation for a good router is appreciated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20288834 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 18:33:23 EDT