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« Keeping it a secret?  
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root9

join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON


2 edits
reply to chrish
Re: chrish, 2008-03-28 10:04:44

Correction:

Bell has NO legitimate case to throttle via DPI [deep packet inspection] due to Canadian privacy laws and other related laws unless it's a direct attack on their servers or equipment. Neither does any ISP in Canada. It's called self-defense for ISP only.

This is why Rogers moved their email and homepages to USA and to get around these laws. It's why Bell uses MSN as email partner. And so they can watch users private communications.

Users can request such DPI protection from an ISP "in writing". Answer from ISP must be in writing as well. It can not be a part of User Agreement or initial contract.

As a user or person living in Canada you must be notified in writing that such may be taking place by any company. Unless there is a warrant signed by a judge with damn good reason to do so.

You have the right to request any and all information being gathered by any company. This includes their partners or resellers. They must provide it! Same as you have the right to visit Hydro-1 Power company and request information pertaining to you. You then have the choice of wiping such information from any and all records of said company.

I suggest that all Indie ISP's and users request this information in full, make a full copy and or have it wiped.

It is up to the user to provide their own protection. In cases where offered a user may request protection by or from ISP.

Thank You,
Senior Network & Systems Analyst


Comment

@teksavvy.com

said by root9 See Profile :

Correction:

Bell has NO legitimate case to throttle via DPI [deep packet inspection] due to Canadian privacy laws and other related laws unless it's a direct attack on their servers or equipment. Neither does any ISP in Canada.

Users can request such DPI protection from an ISP "in writing". Answer from ISP must be in writing as well.

As a user or person living in Canada you must be notified in writing that such may be taking place by any company.

You have the right to request any and all information being gathered by any company.
Strange that no one has mentioned these "points" of yours - perhaps you could substantiate with a few links to the relevant statutes.


travisc

join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON
I'd be interested in seeing this as well.

ultracat

join:2008-01-30
Toronto, ON
·TELUS
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..


1 edit
reply to root9
said by root9 See Profile :

Correction:

Bell has NO legitimate case to throttle via DPI [deep packet inspection] due to Canadian privacy laws and other related laws unless it's a direct attack on their servers or equipment. Neither does any ISP in Canada. It's called self-defense for ISP only.

This is why Rogers moved their email and homepages to USA and to get around these laws. It's why Bell uses MSN as email partner. And so they can watch users private communications.

Users can request such DPI protection from an ISP "in writing". Answer from ISP must be in writing as well. It can not be a part of User Agreement or initial contract.

As a user or person living in Canada you must be notified in writing that such may be taking place by any company. Unless there is a warrant signed by a judge with damn good reason to do so.

You have the right to request any and all information being gathered by any company. This includes their partners or resellers. They must provide it! Same as you have the right to visit Hydro-1 Power company and request information pertaining to you. You then have the choice of wiping such information from any and all records of said company.

I suggest that all Indie ISP's and users request this information in full, make a full copy and or have it wiped.

It is up to the user to provide their own protection. In cases where offered a user may request protection by or from ISP.

Thank You,
Senior Network & Systems Analyst
For those looking for a link to read:
»www.privcom.gc.ca/information/02···08_e.asp

btw - this would be a GREAT letter writing campaign to conduct against Bell. Imagine if Bell had to all of a sudden handle 21,000 or whatever written requests for privacy disclosures!


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
Problem is that Bell does not "Collect, use, or disclose" any private data. At least, nothing that the government considers private information.


Comment

@teksavvy.com

reply to ultracat
said by ultracat See Profile :

For those looking for a link to read:
»www.privcom.gc.ca/information/02···08_e.asp

btw - this would be a GREAT letter writing campaign to conduct against Bell. Imagine if Bell had to all of a sudden handle 21,000 or whatever written requests for privacy disclosures!
It would be annoying, but all Bell would send you (if anything) would be a form letter saying they do not collect any PERSONAL information nor "read your raw data". (They only look at the formatting of it.)

In contrast, BT (British Telephone) is in the midst of a kerfuffle because they did collect "personal information" by recording the addresses of the sites INDIVIDUAL subscribers were visiting.

ultracat

join:2008-01-30
Toronto, ON
·TELUS
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..

Yeah, but once you get that response from Bell then you turn around and give an appeal to the privacy commissioner and complain that they are in fact inspecting my data. Then let Bell deal with the privacy commissioner. It's just one more irritant (and not a false accusation either, if you ask some people) : )


jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX

reply to Guspaz
>Problem is that Bell does not "Collect, use, or disclose" any
>private data. At least, nothing that the government considers
>private information.

Problem is that the boxes used to throttle are capable of collecting private information. What you do, what applications you use and how much data you transfer is private as far as Bell is concerned (it has no business knowing that).

Unless Bell canada is audited at regular intervals, there is no way of knwoing what Bell does with those boxes and whether it collects data or not.


Candoo3

join:2005-01-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..

reply to Comment
said by Comment :

It would be annoying, but all Bell would send you (if anything) would be a form letter saying they do not collect any PERSONAL information nor "read your raw data". (They only look at the formatting of it.)

In contrast, BT (British Telephone) is in the midst of a kerfuffle because they did collect "personal information" by recording the addresses of the sites INDIVIDUAL subscribers were visiting.
And BT also DENIED that they were doing this, until they were caught.

»www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/27···er_2007/


fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
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reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz See Profile :

Problem is that Bell does not "Collect, use, or disclose" any private data. At least, nothing that the government considers private information.
Guspaz, I have a question: how is that known?
--
Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex..


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet

said by fatness See Profile :

said by Guspaz See Profile :

Problem is that Bell does not "Collect, use, or disclose" any private data. At least, nothing that the government considers private information.
Guspaz, I have a question: how is that known?
Because PIPEDA seems to have an extremely narrow definition of "personal information", and would seem to not include things like what website you visit or what files you download. To capture traditional personal information, the only reasonable way would be for them to capture/store HTTP POST form data.

Are they capable of grabbing that data? Probably. Are they? Probably not.

As long as they're simply examining data, anyhow, and not storing it, they're not collecting it, and they're not disclosing it. You could argue that they're using it, but they're not using personal information to help them throttle, they're using application fingerprints, which are decidedly not personal information.


fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing

2 edits
How is it known that they are:

not capturing/storing HTTP Post form data?
only examining data?
not storing data?


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
I don't, so I admit that I'm making an assumption here. What I want to convey is that the DPI throttling system, if used as intended, does not do those things.

If Bell is doing that, it's unrelated to the throttling.


R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON

As fatness just pointed out... It's entirely possible they're holding the data as, if they're intending on possibly running billing on use, they'd have to almost for sure store it for proof of billing.
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.

puzz1ed

join:2005-02-20
Markham, ON

Perhaps they can use it to start charging by protocol or usage pattern.

Obviously, if you're using VPN software from 9 to 5 you should be on a more expensive business service etc. The possibilities are endless.
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