gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
 ·Suddenlink
 ·Cirtex Hosting
 ·SUNROCKET
edit:
April 8th, @07:50AM
|  We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?
We demand full discloser of all tracking of users on the Embarq network, including all logging that is done, for any reason.
We also demand full discloser of any and all information collected and given, shared or sold to other parties.
We also demand all activities taking place on the Embarq network that fall outside simple internet access be disclosed.
We also demand all activities should be OPT-IN, and not OPT-OUT, and the use of cookies to OPT-OUT is not an acceptable way to OPT-OUT.
Hiding all these programs in the TOS or AUP are also not acceptable full discloser.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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skj
Welcome to the far side of reality
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-04
Atlanta, GA
Host:
Charter HSI/CATV
Earthlink DSL
Embarq
ISP b2b etc
Cisco
edit:
April 8th, @07:49AM
| Re: We demand full discloser
Snooping on the customer's surfing habits is unacceptable, and so is an opt-out option. Privacy is a big concern for most. The last thing we should have to worry about is our own ISP snooping on our surfing habits. I am sure they were hoping to keep this privacy invasion technique under wraps by burying it in the fine print of the Terms of Service, but it would only be a matter of time before someone actually read all the "fine print" and made it public. Hopefully, Embarq will now take note of the "large print" of their customers and remove this privacy invasion. |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| It seems more and more, last mile internet providers are doing these types of things, to make more money off their investments. My issue is, all I want is an internet connection.
I'm sure Embarq and other providers wouldn't like these types of actions being done to them by their upstream providers.
They buy an internet connection, not a marketing relationship, and this is what I expect as well.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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hazezilla
join:2006-02-19
| reply to gatorkram
Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?
I do not like the idea of be watched any more than the next.
I if you watch the news,ISP are being pressured to be internet cops. RIAA and the such want ISPs to control what is sent across the network.
If you want snooping stopped start with giving ISPs freedom from being sued when a customer does illegal things.
Then they will have no legal reason to snoop. |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| said by hazezilla  :I do not like the idea of be watched any more than the next. I if you watch the news,ISP are being pressured to be internet cops. RIAA and the such want ISPs to control what is sent across the network. If you want snooping stopped start with giving ISPs freedom from being sued when a customer does illegal things. Then they will have no legal reason to snoop. I agree %100, internet providers should not be held liable for what their users do, as far as crimes. The RIAA and MPAA or anyone else shouldn't expect them to. They have better things to be doing.
They shouldn't be doing much of anything, except keeping their networks up and running.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| reply to gatorkram
I almost think we need laws to protect us from this type of thing. Why is it, because we need to use another network, to get on the internet, that that network operator should have free and unfettered access to what we are doing, and all our communications?
Just because the internet is a public network, doesn't mean our privacy should also be treated as a public property.
If anything, the ISPs should be paying us for this access.
It should be a crime for them to be intercepting anything we are doing across their network, without a warrant.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| reply to gatorkram
One more point.
The post office doesn't have the right to open our letters, and read them. Why should our internet packets be any different?
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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zach_lloyd
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC
edit:
April 8th, @10:12AM
| reply to gatorkram
You are preaching to the choir. The trick is getting the ISPs to listen. When there are no penalties (besides a public black-eye) to ISPs who violate their users' privacy, there is no business incentive to stop. |
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gatorkram
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join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| said by zach_lloyd :You are preaching to the choir. The trick is getting the ISPs to listen. When there are no penalties (besides a public black-eye) to ISPs who violate their users' privacy, there is no business incentive to stop. I agree, but the ball has to start someplace.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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zach_lloyd
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC
 ·Embarq
·Northland Cable Te..
| reply to gatorkram
The most depressing thing about the issue is the fact that for many people (myself included), I am forced into one "true" broadband provider. There are no other alternatives. I'd love to be able to say "Hey, Embarq...you have some pretty shady business practices so I think I'm going with these other guys."
The only problem being there are no "other guys." |
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gatorkram
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Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| said by zach_lloyd :The most depressing thing about the issue is the fact that for many people (myself included), I am forced into one "true" broadband provider. There are no other alternatives. I'd love to be able to say "Hey, Embarq...you have some pretty shady business practices so I think I'm going with these other guys." The only problem being there are no "other guys." I happen to have both in my area, and I also happen to subscribe to both..
For all I know, my cable company is doing the same things already.
When they can slip any changes they want, into the TOS, it's pretty hard to know just what is going on.
Without laws to protect us from this invasion, more and more ISPs will start doing it, and there will be no escape.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| reply to gatorkram
Guys, there is something that business will toe right up to and go no farther: "The Bright Line of The Law". Knowing where this bright line is with exact GPS coordinates is why their lawyers eat caviar and we eat...well, you know.
If you want this sort of thing to change, you have to get organized and contact both state and federal legislators. As long as this behavior is both legal and a source of cash flow, it will continue. Take the profit out of it and make it illegal and it will stop. But it will not stop one second before the bill making it illegal is signed.
That's American Business c.2008. It's not about the ethics. Ethics don't make you money. |
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skj
Welcome to the far side of reality
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-04
Atlanta, GA
Host:
Charter HSI/CATV
Earthlink DSL
Embarq
ISP b2b etc
Cisco
edit:
April 10th, @06:36PM
| reply to gatorkram
More front page news regarding this issue: »ISPs Won't Talk To Press About Selling User Browsing Data
Edit: corrected typo
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The foundations of character are built not by lecture, but by bricks of good example, laid day by day. |
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gatorkram
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join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| reply to gatorkram
Disappointing how quickly this topic died.
I guess no one cares about their privacy being sold to the highest bidder.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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Supervisor
Premium
join:2006-03-26
Lebanon, PA
| reply to skj
Re: We demand full discloser
said by skj :Snooping on the customer's surfing habits is unacceptable... It may not be only your web surfing habits being snooped on...
From »www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/ia.jsp?ia=···LAY=DESC :
[0071] In one example, a user may use a browser application to view an advertisement on a website about a particular model of new basketball shoe. Then, instead of clicking the advertisement link on that web site, the user may start to chat with friends about the basketball shoe using an instant messenger application. Existing methods of tracking click-through user behavior would fail to capture such a successful conversion. In contrast, because all network traffic flows through the network device 110, the network device 110 is capable of analyzing user behavior using multiple applications.
[0072] In this example, the network device 110 would first detect that the shoe advertisement was being served to the user via a browser application. Next, the network device 110 would detect that the content of the user's instant messages included a mention of that shoe. Accordingly, the network device 110 is capable of tracking multiple protocols and correlating the information received from those protocols to enhance the accuracy of advertisement targeting and tracking.
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
edit:
April 13th, @11:24AM
| All I can think to say at this moment, is wow...
edit: typo |
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espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to gatorkram
Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?
said by gatorkram :The post office doesn't have the right to open our letters, and read them. Why should our internet packets be any different? I want to be upfront and state that I don't agree with the mining of personal information for advertising purposes by ISPs. That said, your analogy isn't 100% accurate because most Internet traffic is sent in clear text. In general, you have as much expectation of privacy on each packet as you do on a post card. Usually only postal workers can read your post card, just as usually only transit providers can read your packets. If you're sending sensitive information, obfuscate it with encryption (ie, stuff it in an envelope).
That said, I also expect the post office to not read my post cards from friends saying "The weather is great here, you should check it out!" and have me put on a list to receive ads from MLT Vacations. |
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sestrada
join:2008-01-01
·Embarq
| reply to gatorkram
Hello Embarq,
Is it true that you're deploying - or soon to deploy - NebuAd's traffic snooping technology?
»online.wsj.com/public/article_pr···192.html
An article in yesterday's The Register »www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/22···_nebuad/ says
The official word from NebuAd is that its partner ISPs are required to DIRECTLY NOTIFY CUSTOMERS via letter or email before its hardware is turned on Are you planning to directly notify customers via letter or email? |
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Jon111
@embarqhsd.net
| reply to gatorkram
They are already using NebuAd. I spoke with a tech last week and he seemed surprised when I explained the wholesale traffic mining to inject ads into web pages based on pages visited, text of IMs, and so on.
When you opt-out of data collection, a cookie is placed from faireagle.com, which links to Nebuad. I explained to the tech my browser deletes cookies on exit and opting out every session is ridiculous. 
Further, many internet-accessing applications and devices besides a web browser (think IM, VOIP...) lack the capability to store a cookie. Nebuad probing my cookies for every single request I make online seems less like opt-out and more like "we'll capture all your requests anyway, we just won't show you our ads". That seems fair 
The explanation of this "Preference Advertising" as they call it, is #4 in the "Use of Personal Information" section:
»www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.html
The insufficient opt-out link is:
»www.embarq.com/adsoptions
The cookie is placed by »www.faireagle.com/
which is owned by »www.nebuad.com/
I invite an Embarq rep to engage us here, and please tell who you must this practice is a COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE violation of privacy and should be opt-IN, not thrust on the customer then buried in the Terms of Service!
I can't think of anyone that would opt-in to such a "service" 
If Embarq insists on continuing their Nebuad relationship, then an account-wide non-cookie based opt-out setting needs to be created. Unacceptable. |
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sestrada
join:2008-01-01
·Embarq
| From NY Times 4/9/08
»bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/0···surfing/
And after The Washington Post discovered two Internet providers it works with — Embarq and Wide Open West — those companies have refused to answer any questions about their relationship with NebuAd. From the same post:
At Embarq, Debra Peterson, the company spokeswoman, e-mailed this statement, saying she would entertain no further questions:
Like other companies, we are evaluating behavioral marketing tools, but we have not decided whether to move forward with them. Our Privacy Policy anticipates and alerts customers to possible future use of these tools, and offers customers the opportunity to simply and quickly opt out. EMBARQ takes its customers privacy very seriously and we take every precaution to ensure information about our customers remains secure and anonymous. With the recenty discovered sandvine based DNS tainting, and all the securityand usability implications of that
»blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0···age.html
to the synacor based webmail that works with multiple passwords
»Passwords for Email
It sometimes seems insulting to one's intelligence to believe Embarg is serious about their customers' security or privacy.
Lucky they're a monoply in this town. |
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