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<title>We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy? in Embarq</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20300954</link>
<description></description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:51:08 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:51:08 EDT</lastBuildDate>

<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20893981</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : <blockquote><i>It looks like Embarq not only doesn't care how end users feel about Nebucrap, but they don't seem at all apologetic about it either.</i></blockquote><br><br>At least it's out in the open now.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/r0/download/1330766~d41167d71f021c2620ae8a3cd7d29d17/Embarq%20Response.pdf">/r0/download/1&middot;&middot;&middot;onse.pdf</A><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/r0/download/1331576~c86af38b3f5528d4b91e8b7ec130973c/Embarq.pdf">/r0/download/1&middot;&middot;&middot;barq.pdf</A><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.reed.com/dpr/docs/Papers/ReedDPIHearing.pdf" >www.reed.com/dpr/docs/Papers/Ree&middot;&middot;&middot;ring.pdf</A><br><br><blockquote><i>It might be time to make some rich lawyers richer...</i> </blockquote><br><br>Readers of Embarq's privacy policy in Spanish may not have been given a choice in the NebuAd trials<br><br>The November 2007 page is still online without an opt-out link or instructions<br><br><blockquote><i>POL&Iacute;TICA DE PRIVACIDAD DE EMBARQ<br><br>A partir de noviembre del 2007<br><br>Publicidad Preferencial. EMBARQ puede usar informaci&oacute;n como los sitios de Internet que visita o las b&uacute;squedas en Internet que usted hace para mandar o facilitar el env&iacute;o de mensajes publicitarios dirigidos a usted. El env&iacute;o de estos mensajes ser&aacute; basado en b&uacute;squedas en Internet an&oacute;nimas y no incluir&aacute; los nombres del usuario, correo electr&oacute;nico, n&uacute;meros de tel&eacute;fono o cualquier otro tipo de informaci&oacute;n personal con la que usted podr&iacute;a ser identificado. <br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy_espanol.html" >www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy_espanol.html</A> </i></blockquote>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20893981</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:08:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831051</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : It looks like Embarq not only doesn't care how end users feel about Nebucrap, but they don't seem at all apologetic about it either.<br><br>It might be time to make some rich lawyers richer...<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20831051</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:30:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820587</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : I'd love to see the reply Embarq sends...<br><br><hr><br><br>From MediaPost 7/16/08<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=86668" >www.mediapost.com/publications/?&middot;&middot;&middot;id=86668</A><br><br><blockquote><i>NebuAd referred all inquiries to Embarq. An Embarq spokesperson declined to answer whether the company directly notified subscribers about NebuAd, saying only: "We have received the letter from Reps. Markey, Barton and Dingell and are reviewing it for an appropriate response."</i></blockquote>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20820587</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:59:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20816702</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1485310"><b>fivepairpath</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sestrada <A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><blockquote>This was passed down from a Embarq tech that I spoke to that was well aware of how Embarq was implementing this service. Dont shoot the messanger.</blockquote><br><br><hr><br><br>The folks at Embarq may be trained not to engage customers, or steer the ignorant and uninformed down a wrong path regarding NebuAd and their possible partnering in illegal wiretapping.<br><br>They haven't replied to any post on this thread, and I called them twice with NebuAd related questions.  Both times a supervisor told me to switch to a public DNS server to protect myself from the invasiveness of deep packet inspection.  <br><br>Nothing can be farther from the truth.   <br><br>Or misleading.<br> </div>The techs are not trained to tell customers that this is not going on. 90% of the techs dont even know this is going on. And who said I'm a customer? And as I said before, the person that I received my information from is WELL aware of how they are implementing this. Another thing that I forgot to add to it is that it does place a cookie in your computer for when you opt-out, sad part is when you clear your cookies it starts up again. But yet again I forgot that I am on the internet where everything you read in a forum is true. Even when someone says that using sand in your motor while running is a good way to port and polish your intake manifold. /sarcasm.. Oh and BTW, if someone is going to wire tap you, they dont need to go through Embarq to do it. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20816702</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:16:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815692</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : <blockquote>the opt out page is gone</blockquote><br><br><hr><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r20728075-">Re: The truth please</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815692</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:21:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815663</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1190799"><b>wvcaver</b></A> : the opt out page is gone. noticed it Friday 18th<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://adsoptions.embarq.com/" >adsoptions.embarq.com/</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815663</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:09:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815629</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : <blockquote>This was passed down from a Embarq tech that I spoke to that was well aware of how Embarq was implimenting this service. Dont shoot the messanger.</blockquote><br><br><hr><br><br>The folks at Embarq may be trainied not to engage customers, or steer the ignorant and uninformed down a wrong path regarding NebuAd and their possible partnering in illegal wiretapping.<br><br>They haven't replied to any post on this thread, and I called them twice with NebuAd related questions.  Both times a supervisor told me to switch to a public DNS server to protect myself from the invasiveness of deep packet inspection.  <br><br>Nothing can be farther from the truth.   <br><br>Or misleading.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20815629</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:55:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20812295</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1561792"><b>Soldae</b></A> : Is Embarq still using NebuAd?  I've heard they've stopped after Charter started getting looked at, but I'm curious if you guys still see it being used.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20812295</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:32:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20811515</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fivepairpath <A HREF="/useremail/u/1485310"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This was passed down from a Embarq tech that I spoke to that was well aware of how Embarq was implimenting this service. Dont shoot the messanger. <br> </div>A lot of these types of statements come second hand from well informed messengers. The problem comes when you don't know for sure what question was asked, and what question was understood, and that's just the question side. And then the answer, well, it's possible you misunderstood the answer, or them the question.<br><br>Regardless, you can't get around nebuad via a simple DNS change, sorry.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20811515</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:44:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20811461</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1485310"><b>fivepairpath</b></A> : This was passed down from a Embarq tech that I spoke to that was well aware of how Embarq was implimenting this service. Dont shoot the messanger. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20811461</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:33:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20808606</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fivepairpath <A HREF="/useremail/u/1485310"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>all you have to do is use a different dns. if you are using opendns servers, then its not tracking. <br> </div>NebuAd does "Deep Packet Inspection". Of all TCP packets passing through any ISP router to which the hardware is attached. How, exactly, does changed DNS service mitigate this issue? Whether you use OpenDNS, Level3, SBC Global, or whomever, your packets still take the same route through your ISP network from end to end. As long as Embarq is permitting NebuAd to track users through Embarq routers, Embarq users will be tracked. Period.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20808606</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:33:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20805907</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fivepairpath <A HREF="/useremail/u/1485310"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  wvcaver <A HREF="/useremail/u/1190799"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>now what servers do i block in my router or at open dns <br>to block Nebuad ?<br> </div>all you have to do is use a different dns. if you are using opendns servers, then its not tracking. <br> </div>This statement is %100 untrue, as it pertains to the nebuad tracking.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20805907</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:17:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20805698</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1485310"><b>fivepairpath</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  wvcaver <A HREF="/useremail/u/1190799"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>now what servers do i block in my router or at open dns <br>to block Nebuad ?<br> </div>all you have to do is use a different dns. if you are using opendns servers, then its not tracking. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20805698</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:44:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20805121</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : I'd love to see the reply Embarq sends...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20805121</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:05:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20804402</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : <blockquote>We demand full discloser</blockquote><br><br><hr><br><br>Maybe now we'll get some answers <br><br>From Arstechnica 7/15/08<br><br> <blockquote><i>The House Committee on Energy and Commerce has now issued a second hostile letter regarding NebuAd ad-serving technology, this time to Embarq.<br><br>Embarq, which offers Internet and phone service, has tested NebuAd's technology (something we already knew) but has so far avoided Congressional scrutiny. In a letter issued today by John Dingell (D-MI), Joe Barton (R-TX), and Ed Markey (D-MA), the Congressmen want to know more about that test. A lot more.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080715-congress-goes-after-nebuad-again.html" >arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20&middot;&middot;&middot;ain.html</A><br><br>---<br><br>    July 14, 2008<br><br>    Mr. Tom Gerke<br>    Chief Executive Officer<br>    Embarq<br>    5454 W. 110th Street<br>    Overland Park, KS 66211<br><br>    Dear Mr. Gerke:<br><br>    We are writing with respect to a recent test conducted by Embarq to tailor Internet advertising to the web-browsing patterns of individual Embarq subscribers. We are interested in the nature of this test as well as the impact that this test, and the underlying technology it employed, could have on consumer privacy and other issues.<br><br>    We understand that Embarq conducted a test earlier this year in a select community in conjunction with NebuAd to create consumer profiles for the purpose of serving ads to consumers based upon their search and surfing habits. As you may know, questions have been raised regarding the applicability of privacy protections contained in the Communications Act of 1934, the Cable Act of 1984, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, and other statutes, to such practices.<br><br>    In particular, we are concerned that Embarq may not have directly notified the subscribers involved in the test that their Web use was being analyzed and profiled. We therefore request that you answer the following questions in order for us to better understand the nature of the test conducted, its impact on consumers, and the broader public policy implications of this technology.<br><br>    1. In what community was the test conducted and how was that community chosen?<br><br>    2. How many subscribers were involved in the test?<br><br>    3. How did Embarq notify subscribers in the affected community of the test? Please provide a copy of the notification. If Embarq did not specifically or directly notify affected subscribers, please explain why this was not done.<br><br>    4. Did Embarq conduct a legal analysis regarding the applicability of consumer privacy laws on the service used in the test? If so, please explain what that analysis concluded.<br><br>    5. Please explain why Embarq chose to conduct the test allowing consumers who objected to &#147;opt out&#148; rather than first asking customers to &#147;opt in.&#148;<br><br>    6. How did Embarq notify subscribers in the affected community of their opportunity to &#147;opt-out&#148; of the test? If Embarq did not specifically or directly notify effected subscribers of the opportunity to &#147;opt-out,&#148; please explain why this was not done.<br><br>    7. How many subscribers in the affected community opted out of participating in the test?<br><br>    8. Did Embarq conduct a legal analysis regarding the adequacy of the &#147;opt-out&#148; notice and mechanism employed to allow consumers to effectuate this choice? If so, please explain what that analysis concluded.<br><br>    9. What is the status of the consumer data collected during this test? Has it been destroyed?<br><br>    Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter. We respectfully request a response by Monday, July 21, 2008.<br><br>    Sincerely,<br><br>    s/John D. Dingell<br>    Chairman<br>    Committee on Energy and Commerce<br><br>    s/Joe Barton<br>    Ranking Member<br>    Committee on Energy and Commerce<br><br>    s/Edward J. Markey<br>    Chairman<br>    Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet<br><br>    cc: The Honorable Cliff Stearns, Ranking Member<br>    Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/1654" >www.publicknowledge.org/node/1654</A></i></blockquote>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 05:51:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20692054</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : I hope Embarq follows the example of Charter, and gets as far away from this user tracking as possible.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20692054</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:36:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20667719</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : You don't. NebuAd sits on the Embarq routers and inspects all packets in transit. If you would avoid NebuAd, you must avoid packet transit through Embarq routers.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20667719</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:08:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20664295</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1190799"><b>wvcaver</b></A> : now what servers do i block in my router or at open dns <br>to block Nebuad ?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20664295</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:41:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20663653</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : Dear Cesar at Embarq,<br><br>A report released today by the Free Press spotlights NebuAd's invasive snopping and more<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.freepress.net/files/NebuAd_Report.pdf" >www.freepress.net/files/NebuAd_Report.pdf</A><br><br>It also says<br><br><blockquote><i>NebuAd has also been deployed by WOW!, Embarq, Broadstripe, CenturyTel,<br>Metro Provider and others.</i></blockquote><br><br>Are you deploying NebuAd now?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20663653</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:18:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20576676</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by creepycrawlly :</small><br><br>i don't know if i want service after reading this. <br> </div>I wish more people would wake up, and realize what is going on here, or at least the potential of what could be going on, because at this point, I think Embarq is denying even using this equipment.<br><br>edit: typo<br><br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20576676</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:36:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20576205</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : i don't know if i want service after reading this. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20576205</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:15:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20562200</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : Hello Embarq<br><br>There's an enlightening read here<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/05/theres-no-optin.html" >blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0&middot;&middot;&middot;tin.html</A><br><br><blockquote><i>But because of the way web cookies work, that cookie can only be read by NebuAd.com, or a website that includes content served from that domain. There's no technical way for NebuAd's sniffer to access the cookie and know not to log and analyze an opted-out user's web usage.<br><br>Indeed, it is possible that the cookie system works to prevent opted-out users from receiving the third-party ads, and it could stop NebuAd from sharing a user's profile with third-party ad networks -- assuming those networks include a NebuAd image file, or some other embedded code, in the ads they serve on the web. But NebuAd's claim that you can opt-out of the surveillance itself remains unexplained.</i></blockquote><br><br>It kind of suggests that the whole NebuAd opt-out thing is a put on.  <br><br>That would include your own branded page<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.embarq.com/adsoptions" >www.embarq.com/adsoptions</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 07:17:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20507429</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : Embarq,<br><br>When I'm on your privacy policy page...<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.html?rid=privacy" >www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.ht&middot;&middot;&middot;=privacy</A><br><br>...then click the link to opt out of preference advertising<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.embarq.com/adsoptions" >www.embarq.com/adsoptions</A><br><br>I get a page that says <br><br><blockquote><b>Opt-Out is Complete</b></blockquote><br><br>I'm confused.   <br><br>The page goes on to say<br><br><blockquote><i>your opt-out choice cannot be honored if the cookies on your computer(s) are deleted</i></blockquote><br><br>but my browser is set to reject all cookies, and I don't have any.<br><br>Is there reason to believe that perhaps the page is misleading in it's message of success?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 16:39:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20487978</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : Then Embarq should give away their DSL to their customers, if they are making so much money from NebuAd.<br><br>I don't have to like what they are doing. Fortunately, where I live, I have options for Internet access.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 15:25:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20487670</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NormanS <A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Blocking only blocks the ads. The issue is the tracking. Whether you block the ads, or not, NebuAd is aggregating data on where you are going. Supposed in an "anonymous" fashion; but how "anonymous" are you, really?</div>NebuAd pays Embarq to provide this.  Where does NebuAd get their money -- from the businesses and advertisers that take part in this.  Your complaint may be about the deep packet inspection, but it may be easier to assault the reason deep packet inspection was implemented.  NebuAd gives the technology to ISPs - once this goes active, it's free money for Embarq.<br><br>You can demand whatever you want from Embarq, but money makes the difference.  Embarq states what can potentially be done in the privacy policy and it has been made clear that they need to provide notification to customers if and when they launch this.  As long as this is legal and Embarq makes more money than it loses there's no reason to stop.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 14:26:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483104</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : This opt out BS is a disgrace......they should ask us,....not force this crap on all who dont know any better.<br><br>I WANT A SURE WAY TO STAY OUT OF THIS,...and will leave Embarq for cable(shivers) if one is not presented.<br><br>This is my first real complaint about Embarq,...and I will not tolerate essentially a failed UK scheme to wiretap my line for some damn ads.<br><br>UK kicked these peep to the curb,...now they are trying us.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/05/charter-to-inse.html" >blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0&middot;&middot;&middot;nse.html</A><br><br>Wise up Embarq,.....quickly.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:37:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477755</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : Blocking only blocks the ads. The issue is the tracking. Whether you block the ads, or not, NebuAd is aggregating data on where you are going. Supposed in an "anonymous" fashion; but how "anonymous" are you, really?<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 20:19:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477266</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  sestrada <A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I sell steiff dolls at my website. Embarq subscibers surf there and check out the products. Embarq shares that data with their content injecting parters Like nebuAd - who - unknowing to the Embarq customer - sends back targetet ads for steiff dolls from some other company on top of the data for my web page. <br><br>The web surfer may click one of those ads possibly taking business away from me.</div>My understanding of these services (is it safe to assume Embarq is using NebuAd?) is that they partner with advertisers to replace generic ads with targeted ones.  Similar to the way personal ads are targeted to your locale based upon IP address, but in a more personally intrusive way.  This supposed to improve the click-thru rate and effectiveness of the ads.  It's only websites using advertisers that choose to partner with NebuAd that are affected.<br><br>That's what I've pieced together from reading about the service.  If anybody can find documentation that proves or disproves this it would be helpful.<br><br>I would also like to find a list of advertisers that partner with NebuAd as it should then be trivial to block their ads.<br><br>Of course, if your Steiff doll website uses one of those advertisers I'll be blocking your ads too and decreasing your return on that investment.<br><br>Are the companies advertising these products and getting the most benefit from this escaping the wrath of the community?    Perhaps if they were receiving enough complaints from their consumers to offset the increased revenue they would stop using this service.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:44:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20454649</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  HDTV <A HREF="/useremail/u/1531333"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I know I'm getting on this topic late, but I am stunned at what I have been reading. I'm going to investigate more into this and any more links would be great. <br><br>Where I go and what I do on the internet is no ones business but mine and this is totally unacceptable<br> </div>I really can't understand why everyone doesn't feel this way. People fight for privacy in other parts of their lives, but for some reason internet privacy eludes their logic.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 23:52:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453838</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1531333"><b>HDTV</b></A> : I know I'm getting on this topic late, but I am stunned at what I have been reading. I'm going to investigate more into this and any more links would be great. <br><br>Where I go and what I do on the internet is no ones business but mine and this is totally unacceptable]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:56:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453737</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Alleyman <A HREF="/useremail/u/534073"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I'm guessing you work for yourself or don't work.  As I bet your company logs your information.  Are you going to sue your employer for copyright infringement!?!?!<br> </div>I am not going to do things with the Internet, while I am on the job, which are not required as condition of my employment.<br><br>Heck, just doing some idle calculations during a quiet phase, while the test bed machine was chunking away, got me in trouble with one HP supervisor, once. She got very testy about my doing some personal financial calculations on company time. It was pencil-and-paper stuff; I wasn't online, or even using a computer, or calculator. She just happened to walk by and look over my shoulder in the midst of a calculation. She knew the numbers weren't tech, or even job, related.<br><br>No, I don't think I could have sued her. But I am just not going to worry about my employer logging stuff that I do, because I am just not going to do stuff he isn't paying me to do. I learned one hard lesson at Hewlett Packard (and that was before the "White Witch" got her hands on the company!)<br><br>OTOH, I am paying my ISP for Internet access. If they aren't making enough money off of my Internet fee, let them raise the fee. I'd rather pay what it costs than have personal data sold without my consent.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:28:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453026</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : <blockquote>I don't care who they are logging it for. It might be their network, but it's my personal information and data, being created by me, and is of a very proprietary manner, and might even be considered my copyright.<br><br>Wouldn't that be funny.</blockquote><br><br><hr><br><br>I sell steiff dolls at my website. Embarq subscibers surf there and check out the products. Embarq shares that data with their content injecting parters Like nebuAd - who - unknowing to the Embarq customer - sends back targetet ads for steiff dolls from some other company on top of the data for my web page. <br><br>The web surfer may click one of those ads possibly taking business away from me.<br><br>That's not funny.<br><br>---<br><br>From IP democracy<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ipdemocracy.com/archives/002938can_phorm_be_trusted_to_track_user_clicks.php" >www.ipdemocracy.com/archives/002&middot;&middot;&middot;icks.php</A><br><br><blockquote><i>Although I've always been less worried than most about private sector privacy violations (as opposed to law enforcement privacy violations), operating under the belief that few companies are smart enought to do bad things with the overwhelming snarl of data they receive, <b>lately I've received some eerily targeted ads and feeds that are clearly based on things about myself that I consider private</b></i></blockquote><br><br>That ain't funny either.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 17:43:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20451669</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/534073"><b>Alleyman</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  gatorkram <A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I don't care who they are logging it for. It might be their network, but it's my personal information and data, being created by me, and is of a very proprietary manner, and might even be considered my copyright.<br></div>I'm guessing you work for yourself or don't work.  As I bet your company logs your information.  Are you going to sue your employer for copyright infringement!?!?!<br><br>I understand where this is coming from, but all class action suits do is cause prices to go up, or services to go away.  Personally, I'd much rather stay with a company like Embarq then go to the only other provider in town which is Time Warner!  They are much worse in my opinion!!<br><br>It's like voting for the president, take the lesser of the two evils and go with it.  You're never going to get what you want in this world, so take the best that's offered.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:18:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450409</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Jon111 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1549921"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This has nothing to do with data security on the net at large. This is a policy that Embarq added to log data for profit and sale to a 3rd party company, not Embarq logging traffic for law enforcement. That's the difference.<br> </div>I don't care who they are logging it for. It might be their network, but it's my personal information and data, being created by me, and is of a very proprietary manner, and might even be considered my copyright. <br><br>Wouldn't that be funny.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:14:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450296</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1549921"><b>Jon111</b></A> : This has nothing to do with data security on the net at large. This is a policy that Embarq added to log data for profit and sale to a 3rd party company, not Embarq logging traffic for law enforcement. That's the difference.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:41:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450255</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Alleyman <A HREF="/useremail/u/534073"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I just can't believe this thread.  Class action lawsuits over logging??????  That's just insane.  I think you guys need to take a long hard look at what you're doing.  All that will come out of this is either prices so high no one can afford it, or make Embarq go under.  Also, I don't know how many of you look at trace routes but there are a lot of other networks that your packets go through besides Embarq!  If logging is not done on Embarq's network, what makes you think it's not done on those other networks?????  If you want to stop the logging, I wouldn't look at Embarq.  The ones requiring the logging is the US Government!  Embarq is a US organization, they have to follow the rules dictated to them by the government.<br><br>Here's another way to look at this.  Embraq is a business providing the service.  Who owns the equipment and the lines?  EMBARQ DOES!  Since Embarq owns this, they can do whatever they want to on their property.  Just like at my office.  If my office said, no, you can't surf porn sites then you can't surf porn sites!!!  Period!  My office owns the network, they can govern use any way they see fit!  Do you think your emails and surfing habits aren't monitored at your office (unless of course you work for yourself!)???<br><br>No I don't work for Embarq and I don't know anyone that does work for Embarq.  I've just seen too many good things taken away because of people that file class action lawsuits for no reason.  If it was something like certain protocols were being blocked, yes, I could see that.  But because of logs???  No I don't understand that one.   <br> </div>If you don't desire privacy, then no, I can't explain my desires to you.<br><br>It might be their network, but who is paying to use it? If everyone stopped paying tomorrow, there would be no use for Embarq. Think about it.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:28:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450135</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/534073"><b>Alleyman</b></A> : I just can't believe this thread.  Class action lawsuits over logging??????  That's just insane.  I think you guys need to take a long hard look at what you're doing.  All that will come out of this is either prices so high no one can afford it, or make Embarq go under.  Also, I don't know how many of you look at trace routes but there are a lot of other networks that your packets go through besides Embarq!  If logging is not done on Embarq's network, what makes you think it's not done on those other networks?????  If you want to stop the logging, I wouldn't look at Embarq.  The ones requiring the logging is the US Government!  Embarq is a US organization, they have to follow the rules dictated to them by the government.<br><br>Here's another way to look at this.  Embraq is a business providing the service.  Who owns the equipment and the lines?  EMBARQ DOES!  Since Embarq owns this, they can do whatever they want to on their property.  Just like at my office.  If my office said, no, you can't surf porn sites then you can't surf porn sites!!!  Period!  My office owns the network, they can govern use any way they see fit!  Do you think your emails and surfing habits aren't monitored at your office (unless of course you work for yourself!)???<br><br>No I don't work for Embarq and I don't know anyone that does work for Embarq.  I've just seen too many good things taken away because of people that file class action lawsuits for no reason.  If it was something like certain protocols were being blocked, yes, I could see that.  But because of logs???  No I don't understand that one.   ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 07:36:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449942</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/314530"><b>NormanS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  seropith <A HREF="/useremail/u/720059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Yes you can.  The onion router.  Tor.<br> </div>How can an "onion router" hide your IP address from your ISP? They are the ones who assign your IP address from the POP center.<br><br>If you are on DSL, you have a unique connection from the premises to the DSLAM, and they don't even need to sniff your IP address to sniff your data.<br><small>--<br>Norman<br>~Oh Lord, why have you come<br>~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 04:28:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Privacy Policy</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448280</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1549921"><b>Jon111</b></A> : It's reassuring that embarq_cesar has indicated Embarq is not using "Preference Advertising" at this time.<br><br><strong>If that's the case, then why is it in the Privacy Policy?</strong><br>"The Policy applies to all United States EMBARQ business units, and to all EMBARQ traffic originated in the United States, including those providing retail and wholesale wireline, wireless and Internet services."?<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.html" >www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.html</A><br>(see <strong>USE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION</strong> section, subsection 4 <strong>Preference Advertising</strong>)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 20:47:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447849</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/720059"><b>seropith</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  gatorkram <A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  ssllocks <A HREF="/useremail/u/1529259"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>How about downloading a program that helps Concerned about Internet privacy? Want to hide your IP address? would a program help. solve this Embarq privacy.&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/" >www.hide-ip-soft.com/</A><br> </div>You can't hide your ip from your isp, nor can you hide your activities. Even if you used %100 encryption end to end, they still know where you are going, and who is talking to you.<br><br>This is the whole problem. They shouldn't be looking or logging, and surely they shouldn't be using that information for their own advantages, or otherwise selling it to third parties.<br> </div>Yes you can.  The onion router.  Tor.<br><br>edit: add quote]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 19:22:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447561</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : And further, the governments of the world shouldn't be requiring them to log and store it either.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 18:25:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447554</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  ssllocks <A HREF="/useremail/u/1529259"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>How about downloading a program that helps Concerned about Internet privacy? Want to hide your IP address? would a program help. solve this Embarq privacy.&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/" >www.hide-ip-soft.com/</A><br> </div>You can't hide your ip from your isp, nor can you hide your activities. Even if you used %100 encryption end to end, they still know where you are going, and who is talking to you.<br><br>This is the whole problem. They shouldn't be looking or logging, and surely they shouldn't be using that information for their own advantages, or otherwise selling it to third parties.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 18:23:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20441815</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1529259"><b>ssllocks</b></A> : How about downloading a program that helps Concerned about Internet privacy? Want to hide your IP address? would a program help. solve this Embarq privacy.&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/" >www.hide-ip-soft.com/</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:57:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20436316</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/711249"><b>Hiker 2</b></A> : Amen brother...  We need to start yammering to our legislators....]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 19:04:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20435585</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Would one of the Embarq reps here please read and respond to this thread?<br><br>I'm sure you can't control these things directly, but please run them up the flagpole to the executives.<br><br>The current opt-out method is unacceptable and needs to be an account wide setting and non-cookie based. Period.<br><br>Oh and I'm still using non-Embarq DNS servers because the ones I pay for with my DSL tend to not resolve google.com, yahoo.com, etc. Really?! And of course I get Embarqs ad re-direction service, even though I've opted out of that several times too.<br><br>Can we <strong>PLEASE</strong> just go back to Embarq providing a basic internet connection that's not supported by selling my private traffic data for ad revenue?<br><br><strong>I PAY</strong> Embarq for my services... over $100/month for phone/DSL. Embarq selling MY data and YOUR data to NebuAd is just sleazy. Frankly, even having NebuAd hardware between me and "the internets" makes me sick.<br><br>Slipping new language into the Terms of Service does not make this acceptable. <br><br>Disgusted :(]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 16:47:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20385416</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1031267"><b>Titus Pullo</b></A> : I'm with you on premise; there's no doubt that logging has nefarious possibilities. Having said that, I also don't believe anything can be done in situations such as this because we can have no expectation of privacy beyond our front door. And even that will probably fall at some point.<br><br>I know all the arguments, but cameras on city streets have been around for quite awhile; public phones now gone in favor of traceable cell service; and wire taps on land lines are trivial to obtain with or without warrants or probable cause.<br><br>It's become a bit of a scary place, but that's the cost of not monitoring our government and a complicit press. It always starts the same way: "if you've nothing to hide, what are you worried about?"<br><br>Shameful, but true. The shredding of the american dream began the day someone woke up.<br>--]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:05:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20383154</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/720059"><b>seropith</b></A> : What do you have to say embarq?  ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:19:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20379926</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : Looks like the FTC supports traffic snooping:<br><br><blockquote>Because online advertising supports free Web content and other benefits, the choice by consumers not to participate in behavioral advertising could reduce the availability of these benefits. The FTC is seeking comments from all interested parties on the proposed principles, including the costs and benefits of offering choice for behavioral advertising. <b>Comments can be sent to BehavioralMarketingPrinciples@ftc.gov</b> .</blockquote><br><br>The state of New Jersey doesn't. Lets hope they're setting the lead for the rest of America.<br><br><blockquote>"The New Jersey Supreme Court is the first in the nation to recognize a reasonable expectation of privacy when using the internet anonymously," said Trenton-based attorney Grayson Barber, who represented six privacy rights organizations as a friend of the court.</blockquote><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-13/1208838925176980.xml&coll=1" >www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf&middot;&middot;&middot;l&coll=1</A><br><br>Embarq's silence to this and other related threads are pretty clear messages.<br><br>We're their marketing tools to be exploited.<br><br>Lucky they're a monopoly in this town.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:36:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20379581</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  dude34221 <A HREF="/useremail/u/644410"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>no official reply, anyone want me to contact my BBB guy?  i also have a lawyer if anyone wants to class action<br> </div>I am considering all options at this time. I think there is a bigger picture here, that needs to be addressed.<br><br>We should be able to take back our personal information, and keep it as private as our credit card numbers, and other such numbers and information.<br><br>Our names, phone numbers, addresses, etc, have for a very long time, been treated incorrectly. It should be information we own the rights to, copy right, for lack of a better concept, and it should be a crime to use our information without written consent.<br><br>Many companies profit from our information, and it is just that, OUR information. I for one am sick and tired of being tracked.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:37:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20379340</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/644410"><b>dude34221</b></A> : no official reply, anyone want me to contact my BBB guy?  i also have a lawyer if anyone wants to class action]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:58:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20378622</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : From NY Times 4/9/08<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/how-should-isps-tell-you-if-they-want-to-track-your-surfing/" >bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/0&middot;&middot;&middot;surfing/</A><br><br><blockquote>And after The Washington Post discovered two Internet providers it works with &#151; Embarq and Wide Open West &#151; those companies have refused to answer any questions about their relationship with NebuAd.</blockquote><br><br>From the same post:<br><br><blockquote>At Embarq, Debra Peterson, the company spokeswoman, e-mailed this statement, saying she would entertain no further questions:<br><br>Like other companies, we are evaluating behavioral marketing tools, but we have not decided whether to move forward with them. Our Privacy Policy anticipates and alerts customers to possible future use of these tools, and offers customers the opportunity to simply and quickly opt out. EMBARQ takes its customers privacy very seriously and we take every precaution to ensure information about our customers remains secure and anonymous.</blockquote><br><br>With the recenty discovered sandvine based DNS tainting, and all the securityand usability implications of that<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/isps-error-page.html" >blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0&middot;&middot;&middot;age.html</A><br><br>to the synacor based webmail that works with multiple passwords<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r20166195-Passwords-for-Email">Passwords for Email</A><br><br>It sometimes seems insulting to one's intelligence to believe Embarg is serious about their customers' security or privacy.<br><br>Lucky they're a monoply in this town.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:25:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20375217</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : They are already using NebuAd. I spoke with a tech last week and he seemed surprised when I explained the wholesale traffic  mining to inject ads into web pages based on pages visited, text of IMs, and so on.<br><br>When you opt-out of data collection, a cookie is placed from faireagle.com, which links to Nebuad. I explained to the tech my browser deletes cookies on exit and opting out every session is ridiculous. :uhh:<br><br>Further, many internet-accessing applications and devices besides a web browser (think IM, VOIP...) lack the capability to store a cookie. Nebuad probing my cookies for every single request I make online seems less like opt-out and more like "we'll capture all your requests anyway, we just won't show you our ads". That seems fair  :uhh: :mad:<br><br>The explanation of this "Preference Advertising" as they call it, is #4 in the "Use of Personal Information" section:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.html" >www2.embarq.com/legal/privacy.html</A><br><br>The insufficient opt-out link is:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.embarq.com/adsoptions" >www.embarq.com/adsoptions</A><br><br>The cookie is placed by &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.faireagle.com/" >www.faireagle.com/</A><br>which is owned by &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.nebuad.com/" >www.nebuad.com/</A><br><br>I invite an Embarq rep to engage us here, and please tell who you must this practice is a COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE violation of privacy and should be opt-IN, not thrust on the customer then buried in the Terms of Service!  :mad: :mad:<br><br>I can't think of anyone that would opt-in to such a "service" :huh:<br><br>If Embarq insists on continuing their Nebuad relationship, then an account-wide non-cookie based opt-out setting needs to be created. Unacceptable. :mad:]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:07:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20372723</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1516234"><b>sestrada</b></A> : Hello Embarq,<br><br>Is it true that you're deploying - or soon to deploy - NebuAd's traffic snooping technology?<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119690164549315192.html" >online.wsj.com/public/article_pr&middot;&middot;&middot;192.html</A><br><br>An article in yesterday's The Register &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/22/wide_open_west_users_with_nebuad/" >www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/22&middot;&middot;&middot;_nebuad/</A> says <br><br><blockquote>The official word from NebuAd is that its partner ISPs are required to DIRECTLY NOTIFY CUSTOMERS via letter or email before its hardware is turned on</blockquote><br><br>Are you planning to directly notify customers via letter or email?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 06:59:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327933</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/373609"><b>espaeth</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  gatorkram <A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The post office doesn't have the right to open our letters, and read them. Why should our internet packets be any different?</div>I want to be upfront and state that I don't agree with the mining of personal information for advertising purposes by ISPs.   That said, your analogy isn't 100% accurate because most Internet traffic is sent in clear text.   In general, you have as much expectation of privacy on each packet as you do on a post card.  Usually only postal workers can read your post card, just as usually only transit providers can read your packets.  If you're sending sensitive information, obfuscate it with encryption (ie, stuff it in an envelope).<br><br>That said, I also expect the post office to not read my post cards from friends saying "The weather is great here, you should check it out!"  and have me put on a list to receive ads from MLT Vacations.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:25:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326749</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : All I can think to say at this moment, is wow...<br><br>edit: typo]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:24:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20326305</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1343989"><b>Supervisor</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  skj <A HREF="/useremail/u/611455"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Snooping on the customer's surfing habits is unacceptable...<br> </div>It may not be only your web surfing habits being snooped on...<br><br>From &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/ia.jsp?ia=US2007%2F008015&IA=US2007%2F008015&DISPLAY=DESC" >www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/ia.jsp?ia=&middot;&middot;&middot;LAY=DESC</A> :<br><div class="bquote">[0071] In one example, a user may use a browser application to view an advertisement on a website about a particular model of new basketball shoe. Then, instead of clicking the advertisement link on that web site, the user may start to chat with friends about the basketball shoe using an instant messenger application. Existing methods of tracking click-through user behavior would fail to capture such a successful conversion. In contrast, because all network traffic flows through the network device 110, the network device 110 is capable of analyzing user behavior using multiple applications.<br><br>[0072] In this example, the network device 110 would first detect that the shoe advertisement was being served to the user via a browser application. Next, the network device 110 would detect that the content of the user's instant messages included a mention of that shoe. Accordingly, the network device 110 is capable of tracking multiple protocols and correlating the information received from those protocols to enhance the accuracy of advertisement targeting and tracking.<br></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:50:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324220</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : Disappointing how quickly this topic died.<br><br>I guess no one cares about their privacy being sold to the highest bidder.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:50:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20314648</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/611455"><b>skj</b></A> : More front page news regarding this issue: &raquo;<A HREF="/shownews/ISPs-Wont-Talk-To-Press-About-Selling-User-Browsing-Data-93482">ISPs Won't Talk To Press About Selling User Browsing Data</A><br><br><small> Edit: corrected typo </small><br><br><small>--<br><br> <br> The foundations of character are built not by lecture, but by bricks of good example, laid day by day.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:34:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301775</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1158068"><b>TScheisskopf</b></A> : Guys, there is something that business will toe right up to and go no farther: "The Bright Line of The Law". Knowing where this bright line is with exact GPS coordinates is why their lawyers eat caviar and we eat...well, you know.<br><br>If you want this sort of thing to change, you have to get organized and contact both state and federal legislators. As long as this behavior is both legal and a source of cash flow, it will continue. Take the profit out of it and make it illegal and it will stop. But it will not stop one second before the bill making it illegal is signed.<br><br>That's American Business c.2008. It's not about the ethics. Ethics don't make you money.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:49:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301640</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  zach_lloyd <A HREF="/useremail/u/1348325"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The most depressing thing about the issue is the fact that for many people (myself included), I am forced into one "true" broadband provider.  There are no other alternatives.  I'd love to be able to say "Hey, Embarq...you have some pretty shady business practices so I think I'm going with these other guys."  <br><br>The only problem being there are no "other guys." <br> </div>I happen to have both in my area, and I also happen to subscribe to both..<br><br>For all I know, my cable company is doing the same things already.<br><br>When they can slip any changes they want, into the TOS, it's pretty hard to know just what is going on.<br><br>Without laws to protect us from this invasion, more and more ISPs will start doing it, and there will be no escape.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:21:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301629</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1348325"><b>zach_lloyd</b></A> : The most depressing thing about the issue is the fact that for many people (myself included), I am forced into one "true" broadband provider.  There are no other alternatives.  I'd love to be able to say "Hey, Embarq...you have some pretty shady business practices so I think I'm going with these other guys."  <br><br>The only problem being there are no "other guys." ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:19:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301585</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  zach_lloyd <A HREF="/useremail/u/1348325"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You are preaching to the choir.  The trick is getting the ISPs to listen.  When there are no penalties (besides a public black-eye) to ISPs who violate their users' privacy, there is no business incentive to stop.<br> </div>I agree, but the ball has to start someplace.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:13:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301572</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1348325"><b>zach_lloyd</b></A> : You are preaching to the choir.  The trick is getting the ISPs to listen.  When there are no penalties (besides a public black-eye) to ISPs who violate their users' privacy, there is no business incentive to stop.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:11:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301538</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : One more point.<br><br>The post office doesn't have the right to open our letters, and read them. Why should our internet packets be any different?<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:05:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301530</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : I almost think we need laws to protect us from this type of thing. Why is it, because we need to use another network, to get on the internet, that that network operator should have free and unfettered access to what we are doing, and all our communications?<br><br>Just because the internet is a public network, doesn't mean our privacy should also be treated as a public property.<br><br>If anything, the ISPs should be paying us for this access.<br><br>It should be a crime for them to be intercepting anything we are doing across their network, without a warrant.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:04:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301310</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  hazezilla <A HREF="/useremail/u/1329837"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I do not like the idea of be watched any more than the next.<br><br>I if you watch the news,ISP are being pressured to be internet cops. RIAA and the such want ISPs to control what is sent across the network.<br><br>If you want snooping stopped start with giving ISPs freedom from being sued when a customer does illegal things.<br><br>Then they will have no legal reason to snoop.<br> </div>I agree %100, internet providers should not be held liable for what their users do, as far as crimes. The RIAA and MPAA or anyone else shouldn't expect them to. They have better things to be doing.<br><br>They shouldn't be doing much of anything, except keeping their networks up and running.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:12:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301287</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1329837"><b>hazezilla</b></A> : I do not like the idea of be watched any more than the next.<br><br>I if you watch the news,ISP are being pressured to be internet cops. RIAA and the such want ISPs to control what is sent across the network.<br><br>If you want snooping stopped start with giving ISPs freedom from being sued when a customer does illegal things.<br><br>Then they will have no legal reason to snoop.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301287</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:08:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301072</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : It seems more and more, last mile internet providers are doing these types of things, to make more money off their investments. My issue is, all I want is an internet connection. <br><br>I'm sure Embarq and other providers wouldn't like these types of actions being done to them by their upstream providers.<br><br>They buy an internet connection, not a marketing relationship, and this is what I expect as well.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20301072</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:55:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: We demand full discloser</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20300995</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/611455"><b>skj</b></A> : Snooping on the customer's surfing habits is unacceptable, and so is an opt-out option. Privacy is a big concern for most. The last thing we should have to worry about is our own ISP snooping on our surfing habits. I am sure they were hoping to keep this privacy invasion technique under wraps by burying it in the fine print of the Terms of Service, but it would only be a matter of time before someone actually read all the "fine print" and made it public. Hopefully, Embarq will now take note of the "large print" of their customers and remove this privacy invasion.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:18:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>We demand full discloser: Invasion of privacy?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20300954</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/661871"><b>gatorkram</b></A> : We demand full discloser of all tracking of users on the Embarq network, including all logging that is done, for any reason.<br><br>We also demand full discloser of any and all information collected and given, shared or sold to other parties.<br><br>We also demand all activities taking place on the Embarq network that fall outside simple internet access be disclosed.<br><br>We also demand all activities should be OPT-IN, and not OPT-OUT, and the use of cookies to OPT-OUT is not an acceptable way to OPT-OUT.<br><br>Hiding all these programs in the TOS or AUP are also not acceptable full discloser.<br><small>--<br>Give me bandwidth or give me death!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/testhistory/661871/4f240">/testhistory/661871/4f240</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 06:45:44 EDT</pubDate>
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