IM Monitoring at LAN? in Security

IM Monitoring at LAN? in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20318851 en Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:57:33 EDT Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:57:33 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324444 Bane75 : For the legal doctrine that defines a key logger as wire tapping, please consult the department of Justice Search and Seizure manual for electronic evidence. It is available at »www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrim···2002.htm

Case law clearly defines a key logger as wiretapping, which makes it illegal in most cases. However, I will not speculate on the legality of a parent doing it as I have not researched the parental use situation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324444 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:49:08 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324236 DiscardedVet :

said by Smokey Bear

:

You are allowed to call me Mr Smokey.

pphhfftt

--
Bush is the Prez.... Think Patriot Act II.... This outspoken dissident.... In jail I'll be soon.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324236 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:56:42 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322535 mikenolan7 : We probably need a little more information to really help you. There's at least three possible approaches:

1. You are going to monitor, and the child knows it.
2. You are going to monitor, and the child doesn't know it, but if they find out, too bad.
3. You are going to monitor, and you really don't want the child to be able to figure it out.

The solutions become more technically challenging and require higher cost or effort as you move from 1 to 3. As Link Logger pointed out, whether or not the child has admin access to the machine makes a big difference. If the child has some minimal technical skills, even limited user access can be bypassed with a boot disk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322535 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:07 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321841 Link Logger : Having been through this once I can tell you its really tough to do. Of course traffic monitoring is one thing, but I think you will ultimately have to reduce access to the computer and applications to be successful here. Limit the number of chat systems and access time / computer time would be a start. Vista has some fairly good parental controls/monitoring built in (for sure better then any other OS).

In some ways it is a trust/control battle and there is no ultimate single answer or solution, but we found that limiting access to the computer, external sites and applications had to be done to get us back to a level of trust and then we worked from there.

Anyone who thinks that people can't get into serious trouble via the internet are living in a world of denial and while it might not affect them, it can have disastrous effects for others.

Want kids to be 'grown-ups' then don't allow them to be admin level users so they will learn to state their case for wanting an application to be installed on their computer just like real grown-ups have to do at their jobs. Social Engineers love kids as they don't have the life experience to know when they are being played.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321841 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 07:45:47 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321558 rkruz : done that, its been an escalation. We have lost a lot of trust. We are resorting to monitoring now and tough love.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321558 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:52:16 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321555 rkruz : LOL..thats funny!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321555 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:50:46 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321406 mikenolan7 : It's your child, this is only a suggestion, but it worked well in our house. Keep the machine in shared living space in the house, where you can sit down at any moment and see what's going on. Sit down occasionally and ask them questions when they are on. That way you show the child that you are taking an interest in what they are doing, and you can be fairly certain that nothing bad is happening. As time goes on, and trust is earned, the computer can be moved into the child's bedroom.

With the other approach, eventually the child will probably figure out what is up. Trust between the two of you will be harmed. The child will probably try to bypass your monitoring. They might think that turning the tables is fair game, and attempt to monitor your traffic. How would you have reacted if you found your parents picking up the other phone and secretly listening to your conversations?

If you do monitor the child's activities, you are less likely to have the child find out if you install a separate machine to monitor from, as koma3504 suggested. If someone is looking for one, most commercial keyloggers won't last long before they are exposed. Good luck with however you proceed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321406 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:22:34 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321217 SnowyOne :

said by rkruz

:

safety of the children is paramount.

Of course it is but don't expect a 14-16 yr old posting as an adult bear in a security forum to understand that.
Suggesting that "internet access" be taken away doesn't show any sense of reality either. All that will accomplish is forcing the surfing to be done outside of the house.
I'm sure this was not an easy thread to start & you've got my empathy but...
Rhetorically, what would you do if your worst fears were proved true? If you're as responsible & caring about the welfare of your child as you seem to be having "proof' shouldn't get be a prerequisite of family counseling.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321217 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:09:04 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321183 garys_2k : You can watch ALL network traffic from another computer on your LAN if you wire them together with a network hub (not sure -- are you on a wireless LAN?). Hubs broadcast all traffic to all ports, so another PC running wireshark will be able to listen in on all chat traffic to/from the other machine.

BTW, I have ZERO problems helping you keep your kid safe. I have kids and would hate to see them threatened or have that type of problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321183 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:54:30 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321153 rkruz : safety of the children is paramount. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321153 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:45:13 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321019 La Luna :

said by premio

:

I thought about this a little more.

If you are recording IM's between your kid and another person. I believe you are actually breaking federal law since neither party that you are tapping is aware of the tap. State laws may be more restrictive in requiring both parties to know.

How do you know how old his/her child is? Please provide proof that it's "breaking federal law" for a parent to monitor for safety reasons what an underage child (who has already apparently had online issues) is doing on the internet, or even if just to protect the security of THEIR machine.

I also don't see where the OP said anything about "recording"....how can you "record" non verbal communication? You are talking about something entirely different.

Underage children have no such "privacy rights".
--
10,886 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11~~TEAM DISCOVERY
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321019 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:02:11 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320715 koma3504 : Well yea but things change when it is the parent's acually doing it . Im sure all Responsible Parent's would agree that someone's got to do the monitoring the alternative would be the government Aka big brother now which one would you want ??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320715 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:56:30 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320160 premio :

said by koma3504

:

well if it was me even if there was with all the sex perverts that like to molest kids and lure them just look at
»www.perverted-justice.com/ and what they do.

Same principle except it is the parent doing it.
Oh and in the tos of the isp each individule is responsible for their own security and with Im's they can trick ya and they can be right in ya pc at the click of a mouse.

Again in PJ, one half of the conversation knows the conversation is being tapped. In your scenrio you do not know that. And if I remember right, in Texas (where your sig says you live) they had to deputize all volunteers on the PJ team to make it 'legal'.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320160 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:10:03 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320067 Smokey Bear :

said by rkruz

:

is this guy for real? or just a troll?

You are allowed to call me Mr Smokey.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320067 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:48:59 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319978 koma3504 : well if it was me even if there was with all the sex perverts that like to molest kids and lure them just look at
»www.perverted-justice.com/ and what they do.

Same principle except it is the parent doing it.
Oh and in the tos of the isp each individule is responsible for their own security and with Im's they can trick ya and they can be right in ya pc at the click of a mouse.
--
† Koma †
If YOu Don't Think It's Possable!! It's Acually A Reality!!The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay!!
Ya Don't Know The signal Till Ya Ride It!!
Voice Break's There's Trouble!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319978 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:31:08 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319888 premio : I thought about this a little more.

If you are recording IM's between your kid and another person. I believe you are actually breaking federal law since neither party that you are tapping is aware of the tap. State laws may be more restrictive in requiring both parties to know.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319888 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:16:16 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319866 koma3504 : Yes it is a firewall - intrusion detection. and alot of neat fetures]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319866 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:08:54 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319837 rkruz : thanks. Ill take a look at SMoothwall. SOunds like its a standalone firewall type deal though that needs to sit between the LAN and my router (BEFSX41).
thanks again]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319837 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:03:16 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319789 rkruz : is this guy for real? or just a troll?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319789 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:53:53 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319690 Smokey Bear :

said by premio

:

Unfortunately it is not illegal.

Indeed not illegal but for sure sneaky and disgusting.
When i read well the thread starter's child had "online behavior problems", i strongly advice him to take a look at himself and his own behavior.
People using keyloggers and other disgusting crap to maintain (total) family control are the only ones with behavior problems.

Bah!
--
Smokey's Security Forums »www.smokey-services.eu/
Smokey's Security Weblog »smokeys.wordpress.com/
ASAP Site Member »asap.maddoktor2.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319690 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:31:12 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319516 premio : You're not a weirdo; your parenting skills will most likely not turn your kid into one. Relationships where parents feel the need to spy on children is a major risk factor for developing abnormal behaviors. It would be more appropriate to remove a computer and deny internet access as a consequence.

Unfortunately it is not illegal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319516 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:46:14 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319148 Smokey Bear : Is (many times) regrettably practice, suppose i am a weirdo because i don't spy on my kids.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319148 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:36:38 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319104 koma3504 : Kids have no privacy rights when it comes to their parents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319104 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:30:23 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319067 Smokey Bear :

said by rkruz

:

Is there a consumer software that will monitor at least 2 way IMs from 1 computer by monitoring the LAN traffic with my computer vs the use of stealthy software installed on the monitored PC?

thanks for anytips

I can provide you with several tips that will accomplish your "needs" but i will not: it will violate the private sphere/privacy rights of your kids.
--
Smokey's Security Forums »www.smokey-services.eu/
Smokey's Security Weblog »smokeys.wordpress.com/
ASAP Site Member »asap.maddoktor2.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20319067 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:24:58 EDT Re: IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20318870 koma3504 : If you have a spare computer smoothwall will do what you want.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20318870 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:46:09 EDT IM Monitoring at LAN? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20318851 rkruz : My childs computer (who has had online behavior problems which have caused us to implement monitoring and site blocking with Securespot) has a stealthy keylogger installed and emails me periodic logs of Instant Messaging (Trillian, AOL etc) activity, web sites visited etc.

Is there a consumer software that will monitor at least 2 way IMs from 1 computer by monitoring the LAN traffic with my computer vs the use of stealthy software installed on the monitored PC?

thanks for anytips]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20318851 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:43:06 EDT