Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one in Site Tools http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20321526 en Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:54:16 EDT Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:54:16 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398431 anon : Hi brianh,

I've been suffering the same problems in Comanche as a customer of pldi. Exact same symptoms of everything being fine until around prime time (6:30 p.m. onward at night)...then the latency goes to hell. If you are like me it is almost as if data comes through in spurts with very erratic latency (low high low insanely high)...almost like the "pinch" isn't constant and they are opening and closing a valve.

It has completely destroyed my ability to raid on WoW, and has cost me a lot of money to try to fix because I've ran every trap trying to make sure my hardware wasn't the problem. I've also spent extra money moving my character because I was afraid the Blizzard server was the issue. Come to find out it was just Pioneer - who continues to deny any problem on their part.

Well - it looks like their bad press is spreading. This isn't the only place people are starting to go public on the run around they are getting with Pioneer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398431 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:45:33 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20379208 brianh : Yeah, they do offer the DTV in Kingfisher. I actually do believe them that its not the real problem though, because I can hit their speed test server during the times when latency is high and I get a good speed to their home office, its just garbage beyond that. That and I know that the DTV is a single broadcast that everyone picks up on, so more people doesn't mean more bandwidth being used. But, they are having problems every night and the traces I do indicate that problem starts in Dallas. I get the feeling someone is pinching the pipe and that there's money issues keeping this from getting fixed.

I'm not letting up on the issue yet. Had I the option of using another broad band ISP I would have switched months ago, but there's not another one out here and doesn't look like there will be soon.

I recently got them to admit that I'm not the only one having problems on their service, so there's no question on them knowing about it or believing me now and I'm starting to ask around with others I know that use Pioneer in the hopes that if they get enough people complaining they'll do something. The only question that remains is if they're going to be able to work this out with their upstream provider or not before I kick it up to their company president and ask him to deal with it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20379208 Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:24:44 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20368520 mover2k7 : hey, does pioneer offer DTV in Kingfisher? I have pioneer dsl in Comanche, and my connection is horrible every night. it started when the people in town who were "grandfathered" lost their cable TV and had to switch over to DTV. i think the reason my connection is so bad at night is that everyone is watching DTV. Pioneer says everything is seperate and DTV has no impact on my DSL, but I dont believe it. as soon as Leno finishes his monologue my connection starts improving and is usually back to normal by midnight. that sucks for me as a gamer. during "prime time" my latency is ridiculous, sometimes it times out just trying to ping Kingfisher. i dont even subscribe to DTV, i think its a horrible idea without FTTH.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20368520 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:11:03 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20328384 Yuengling :
said by brianh See Profile :

At least, the last I heard they had "submitted it to tier 2" and they tried something and asked me to run more tests to see if it was any better, but it seems whatever they tried had no effect. That was a couple days ago and I've yet to hear anything new on it.



Hey brian, I don't want to discourage you from taking your problem up the ladder but I will tell you from my own personal experience with a very similiar problem but different ISP, I got nothing. In fact, I ended up switching ISP because I got nothing.

I went through this whole deal with my old ISP, Verizon, maybe your ISP will be better. I heard the same load of crap from them, they were sending the problem up to Tier 2 support, then up to he next level. I finally got a Tech out here and I showed him my Line quality test. He acknowledged that the problem was with a bad router but nothing ever became of it, and to this day, 6 months after switching ISPs, that router is still showing up on the Lossy Router Watch report here.

The tech who hooked up my cable (RoadRunner NEO) told me that ISPs are very reluctant to fix/replace bad routers because of the cost ($$$$$$$$$), especially when the router isn't their property like in your case. You could try calling Level 3, but I don't think you will get far. Good luck!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20328384 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:31:18 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321526 Lanik :
said by brianh See Profile :

Thanks for the chat ...
Sure you're welcome, good luck. :)
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"If it ain't broke don't fix it."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321526 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:24:55 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321499 brianh : We're still giving it a little time before contacting the management at this ISP. My boss who's I.S. manager where I work does know the company president of the ISP and said if needed he'll try to get me in touch. I just don't want to jump them too hard yet because they have been trying to get some activity on it this last week, I'm just exploring possibilities to prod it along a bit since its been dragging for so long. At least, the last I heard they had "submitted it to tier 2" and they tried something and asked me to run more tests to see if it was any better, but it seems whatever they tried had no effect. That was a couple days ago and I've yet to hear anything new on it.

And they are the only option in the area for broadband, for home anyway. A T1 line direct from Verison is businesses only.. and way too expensive even if it were possible.

Thanks for the chat, gives me some things to think on. But mainly looks like I'll need to cross my fingers and just keep on them about it and hope for the best for now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321499 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:11:17 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321297 Lanik : I see that paints a different picture sounds like they are at their capacity and don't have enough bandwidth to sustain all their customers. Have you tried to escalate your problem to your ISPs management? I'm not sure how far that will get you in a long run but might be worth a shot. Any alternative broadband options which you can use as leverage to get your point across?
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"If it ain't broke don't fix it."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321297 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:39:05 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321195 brianh : Mostly speed tests from dslreports and speedtest.net and this line quality test, all performed at many different times during a day and over multiple days to find a trend, and trying to do both DSL lines and a T1 at my place of work that does not go through this ISP all near the same time on these tests for comparison, just to make sure there isn't something obviously wrong with the test sites themselves. The T1 line never seems to have any real noticeable issues with any of the tests that aren't normal to see. It'll report back with close to 1100 down and 1400 up most of the time, you may hit the odd test site that doesn't come back with as high a number but thats to be expected, thats just the nature of the internet. The line quality tests show that it routes back through Verison from both directions, and shows no packetloss at the final destination on the T1 at any time of day.

The DSL lines usually show less than 2% packletloss early in the morning between 8AM and 10AM which is normal, and usally no more than 4% until you start getting past 3PM, which it then starts to climb until it will peak at 15%-20% at the destination around 9PM at night, on both DSL lines, but only on the route that goes through Level 3, which is the main thing that tipped me off that something might be happening there. The main point of intrest is both routes share a common hop, the kgfs.pldi.net location, and this hop only shows packetloss when downstream of the Level 3 hop. If the packetloss were a false reading, which often does seem to happen on a single hop showing packet loss but the next hop showing no problem, then the kgfs.pldi.net location would show no problems from both routes, but thats not the case here.

And trust me, its noticeable while trying to actually use the connections, otherwise I'd have no reason to be looking for a problem. Early mornings, no problems at all, late evening, big problems, anything streaming or requiring low latency is frustrating to try to use late at night but works fine early in the day. So there's defiantly something going on that is influenced by what time of day it is, and my only guess on that is there's less internet traffic early in the morning than there is late at night, and maybe more traffic aggravates the problem.

Its really not that I don't want to go through the ISP to get this cleared up, I'm just not sure if they're getting the information off to the correct people since it has been like this for a while, quite a few months. But, as I figured, getting directly in touch with... who I think might be the problem (can't really prove it other than to say 'this test said so' and give them my word that its not working right) might not really get any better results, which so far has been no results.

And the ISP is trying a few things, they've even replaced my modem and checked their hardware, including their border router and the hardware my connection goes through at their home office, but I'm sure its not within their own network or else they would have fixed it. Their own speedtest site shows perfect speed to the home office every time I try it even when I'm having problems doing anything else out in the internet, so it does appear to be out of their little sphere of control. They're listening, I'm just not sure if they're being persuasive enough to who's up stream to get it fixed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321195 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:59:29 EDT Re: Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321001 Lanik : I'm not sure I understand what the issue is exactly.

The way I see there are several router who are refusing packets line test is sending, quite common now days. Also its okay to have a different router from east coast vs west since the line test servers are actually in 2 different locations and your signal takes 2 different paths to get there. Regardless of the fact that your home/work connection is on the same ISP they may not be on the same piece of wire. You can call Level3 if you like, first thing they'll want to know is "Who are you exactly and why aren't you calling your ISP for this?" Unfortunately they aren't your ISP they are you ISPs upstream provider and they don't care if you report the problem to them since they aren't required to fix it. The only hope is to convince your ISP that there is a problem (see above I don't see one) and they are the only ones that can lean on Level3 to fix any problems there might be.

What other tests have you done that indicate there is a problem? Speed tests? Line tests at different times of the day? Traceroutes? What I"m saying is if you want your ISP to listen you need to give them more data which shows this problem you're seeing.
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"If it ain't broke don't fix it."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20321001 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:58:43 EDT Hard to contact the correct people on this one http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320372 brianh : The pattern I'm seeing is pretty repeatable each night. The quality of the connection drops every evening, noticeably, and running a line quality test during that time shows results like these every night around 9PM.

Note that its actually two different DSL lines, one is at my place of work (static IP), one is at home (dynamic IP), both are through the same ISP. The geographical location of the two is about 12 miles apart from each other, with the home line being less than a mile from the home office.

Home: »/linequality/nil/2373508
Work: »/linequality/nil/2373522

Earlier in the mornings the lines seem to perform alright, and the tests come back looking fairly good, almost clean, but thats also when there's less internet traffic in general I'm sure. So its a repeating pattern of getting frustrated every evening as I watch the connection quality get worse and worse as it gets near 9PM at night.

The main thing I noticed in the tests is the different routings from east and west coast, which I don't know if its common to see such a thing or not, I kinda figured the hop coming into my ISP would be one company, not two different ones, but there it is. Doing a whois on some of these hops reveals that the routing is coming in through Verison from the east coast, which is the route that performs fine, and its coming in through Level 3 Communications from the west coast, which is the one that doesn't look so hot.

The issue has dragged on a while despite my repeated calls to my ISP, but I think the main deal is trying to get this info to who really needs it, which isn't my ISP (not their network causing the problem evidently), its someone a hop up stream from them. Frustrating.. yes, but as far as I know there isn't really any other way for me to get this info off to who needs to see it to correct the problem other than beating on my ISP relentlessly so they'll beat on someone upstream relentlessly to get it fixed. Anyone happen to know of a way to alert Level 3 of this other than just being a pest to my ISP and insisting they keep bugging someone upstream about the problem? I'd gladly do the talking to someone upstream if they'd listen, but I get the feeling they'd simply say "who are you?" if I attempted to get in touch with them and ignore me, being I'm not a direct customer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20320372 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:50:20 EDT