Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX | reply to KrK
Re: Tivo blows
Echostar violated a valid patent. Period.
They are not getting ripped off.
Corporations can't just disregard patent law because they think a patent should never have been given. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail  :1st to market is not relevant to patent law. Nope.... but prior art or obviousness is... supposed to be. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to Thespis
Yes, I stated that already.... However, the feature the patent and lawsuit is based on was already in use and had been developed by other DVR's.
I'm not disagreeing that TIVO got the patent, I just think the patent should be invalidated... which of course would end the lawsuit. Unlikely to occur as well. Echostar is getting ripped off.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
| reply to KrK
Echostar?
E*'s first DVR (they actually called it a PVR) was the DishPlayer 2400. It came out about the same time as Tivo. It was a piece of crap that ran Microsoft software and had to be babysat daily. It also had a whopping 8 hours of record time. I sold mine on Ebay for a tidy sum.
The DVR that E* was sued over was the one they developed in house well after Tivo was established with DirecTV. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :ReplayTV beat TIVO to market. They both came on the scene pretty close together. TIVO was second, a few months behind ReplayTV. 1st to market is not relevant to patent law.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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| reply to Thespis
said by Thespis :I'll let others judge if two months is "well behind". True, but prior art is prior art, and once the first DVR features were being created, the so called "Time-warp" feature becomes an obvious extension of the technology. In reality, all these DVR's (ReplayTV, TIVO, Echostar's) were being developed with similar features by different people at the same time. Nobody "stole" anything. TIVO just got the patent on a "feature" and is going sue happy.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to TKJunkMail
Yes, the Court disagrees with Justice and what is right all the time. As for the Appeals Court, that means little because all they rule on is if an error was made in the procedure of the first trial, and don't actually deal with the issue at hand. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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| reply to wierdo
said by wierdo :If they were "well behind" replay, then how on earth did they make it to market several months ahead of Replay? Well, they must of used that Patented Time-Warp feature to leap ahead, ReplayTV came out in January 1999, and Tivo's first unit was April, so in a non-time warped universe, ReplayTV was first.
Once the DVR was out, and time-shifting, pausing, jumping forward to real time, etc were all out the so-called "time warp" feature becomes an obvious extension of the technology.
Echostar's first DVR's were built on Microsoft software and didn't actually get released until a few months after TIVO, however Echostar had been showing off the hardware while waiting on the software for months.
The simple fact is these DVR's were developed at the same time. Nobody stole or copied someone else's code, but TIVO was granted a patent on a feature that was common to them all, and now is going sue-happy.
It's a common problem.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to insomniac
ReplayTV beat TIVO to market. They both came on the scene pretty close together. TIVO was second, a few months behind ReplayTV. |
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Siryak
join:2005-11-26
 ·WildBlue
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Tivo blows
said by TKJunkMail :said by KrK :It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness. The court evidently disagrees with you. In fact now 2 courts disagree, because the appeals court upheld the trial court. The court also approved a lawsuit to McDonalds for having their coffee too hot. *rolls eyes* |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
1 edit | reply to MooJohn
said by MooJohn :It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method! You've clearly never applied for a patent. Not that i'm defending the USA's shit patent system, but I can assure you it's a little more difficult then just having a concept |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to MooJohn
said by MooJohn :Yep, apparently only one company is supposed to be allowed to offer an onscreen guide with recording ability. I'm sure Tivo has patented nearly every button on the remote control and the order and manner by which they're accessed. I'll take my Dish recorder over a Tivo box any day. For my non-satellite sources, I use a multi-tuner box running GBPVR  It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method! tivo sucks. thumbs up
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to KrK
said by KrK :said by TKJunkMail :I agree. Not all patents are bogus. This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV. If they were "well behind" replay, then how on earth did they make it to market several months ahead of Replay?
BTW, many of TiVo's patents were "stupid," hence their being lost on patent office re-examination. The "time warp" patent wasn't obvious, or they would have lost it, too.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  |
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Jaghar
join:2001-01-30
Painesville, OH
| reply to MooJohn
I find it completely reasonable that 2 companies can create different technologies to complete the same task (Replay/Tivo).
When a 3rd party comes along and uses any of that technology, without prior arrangement, that's patent infringement.
Either way, it would be nice if Tivo and Directv had some adequate competition to keep my Directv prices down.
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We will always be much more human than we wish to be. |
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insomniac
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-09-22
Naperville, IL
clubs: | reply to KrK
What about them? TiVo had units in customers' hands before they did. |
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Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
1 edit | reply to KrK
said by KrK :This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV. Both companies were created in 1997.
Replay TV launched two months before Tivo.
I'll let others judge if two months is "well behind". |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness. The court evidently disagrees with you. In fact now 2 courts disagree, because the appeals court upheld the trial court.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to Jaghar
It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness. |
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Jaghar
join:2001-01-30
Painesville, OH | reply to KrK
How is the patent stupid? |
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