Re: Tivo blows in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20330370 en Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:25:47 EDT Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:25:47 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20332239 Thespis : Echostar violated a valid patent. Period.
They are not getting ripped off.
Corporations can't just disregard patent law because they think a patent should never have been given.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20332239 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:02:56 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20332096 KrK :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

1st to market is not relevant to patent law.
Nope.... but prior art or obviousness is... supposed to be.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20332096 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:37:35 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20332083 KrK : Yes, I stated that already.... However, the feature the patent and lawsuit is based on was already in use and had been developed by other DVR's.

I'm not disagreeing that TIVO got the patent, I just think the patent should be invalidated... which of course would end the lawsuit. Unlikely to occur as well. Echostar is getting ripped off.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20332083 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:36:28 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20331600 Thespis : Echostar?
E*'s first DVR (they actually called it a PVR) was the DishPlayer 2400. It came out about the same time as Tivo. It was a piece of crap that ran Microsoft software and had to be babysat daily. It also had a whopping 8 hours of record time. I sold mine on Ebay for a tidy sum.
The DVR that E* was sued over was the one they developed in house well after Tivo was established with DirecTV.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20331600 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:18:14 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330736 TK Junk Mail :
said by KrK See Profile :

ReplayTV beat TIVO to market. They both came on the scene pretty close together. TIVO was second, a few months behind ReplayTV.
1st to market is not relevant to patent law.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330736 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:57:46 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330374 KrK :
said by Thespis See Profile :

I'll let others judge if two months is "well behind".
True, but prior art is prior art, and once the first DVR features were being created, the so called "Time-warp" feature becomes an obvious extension of the technology. In reality, all these DVR's (ReplayTV, TIVO, Echostar's) were being developed with similar features by different people at the same time. Nobody "stole" anything. TIVO just got the patent on a "feature" and is going sue happy.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330374 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:44:41 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330371 KrK : Yes, the Court disagrees with Justice and what is right all the time. As for the Appeals Court, that means little because all they rule on is if an error was made in the procedure of the first trial, and don't actually deal with the issue at hand.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330371 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:41:53 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330370 KrK :
said by wierdo See Profile :

If they were "well behind" replay, then how on earth did they make it to market several months ahead of Replay?
Well, they must of used that Patented Time-Warp feature to leap ahead, ReplayTV came out in January 1999, and Tivo's first unit was April, so in a non-time warped universe, ReplayTV was first.

Once the DVR was out, and time-shifting, pausing, jumping forward to real time, etc were all out the so-called "time warp" feature becomes an obvious extension of the technology.

Echostar's first DVR's were built on Microsoft software and didn't actually get released until a few months after TIVO, however Echostar had been showing off the hardware while waiting on the software for months.

The simple fact is these DVR's were developed at the same time. Nobody stole or copied someone else's code, but TIVO was granted a patent on a feature that was common to them all, and now is going sue-happy.

It's a common problem.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330370 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:40:10 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330278 KrK : ReplayTV beat TIVO to market. They both came on the scene pretty close together. TIVO was second, a few months behind ReplayTV.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20330278 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:11:29 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327752 Siryak :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by KrK See Profile :

It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness.
The court evidently disagrees with you. In fact now 2 courts disagree, because the appeals court upheld the trial court.
The court also approved a lawsuit to McDonalds for having their coffee too hot. *rolls eyes*]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327752 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:34:57 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327303 Qumahlin :
said by MooJohn See Profile :

It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method!
You've clearly never applied for a patent. Not that i'm defending the USA's shit patent system, but I can assure you it's a little more difficult then just having a concept]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20327303 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:36:24 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324405 dvd536 :
said by MooJohn See Profile :

Yep, apparently only one company is supposed to be allowed to offer an onscreen guide with recording ability. I'm sure Tivo has patented nearly every button on the remote control and the order and manner by which they're accessed.

I'll take my Dish recorder over a Tivo box any day.

For my non-satellite sources, I use a multi-tuner box running GBPVR :D

It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method!
tivo sucks. thumbs up
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324405 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:40:27 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324196 wierdo :
said by KrK See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

I agree. Not all patents are bogus.
This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV.
If they were "well behind" replay, then how on earth did they make it to market several months ahead of Replay?

BTW, many of TiVo's patents were "stupid," hence their being lost on patent office re-examination. The "time warp" patent wasn't obvious, or they would have lost it, too.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324196 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:44:51 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324195 Jaghar : I find it completely reasonable that 2 companies can create different technologies to complete the same task (Replay/Tivo).

When a 3rd party comes along and uses any of that technology, without prior arrangement, that's patent infringement.

Either way, it would be nice if Tivo and Directv had some adequate competition to keep my Directv prices down.
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We will always be much more human than we wish to be.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324195 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:44:33 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324091 insomniac : What about them? TiVo had units in customers' hands before they did.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324091 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:15:02 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324058 Thespis :
said by KrK See Profile :

This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV.
Both companies were created in 1997.
Replay TV launched two months before Tivo.
I'll let others judge if two months is "well behind".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20324058 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:06:57 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323928 TK Junk Mail :
said by KrK See Profile :

It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness.
The court evidently disagrees with you. In fact now 2 courts disagree, because the appeals court upheld the trial court.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323928 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:26:19 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323888 KrK : It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323888 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:14:14 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323510 Jaghar : How is the patent stupid?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323510 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:43:06 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323058 KrK :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

I agree. Not all patents are bogus.
This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV.
TIVO did create the original DVR and Dish flat out stole out. They SHOULD have to pay royalties.
So says TIVO. I seriously doubt it. Ergen is not stupid. The patent is.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323058 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:42:17 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323038 KrK :
said by wanderance See Profile :

Doesn't have anything to do with the guide, has to do with the "time warp". At the time that TiVo patented it, it was a very revolutionary idea.
ReplayTV.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20323038 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:37:39 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322884 TK Junk Mail :
said by wanderance See Profile :

Doesn't have anything to do with the guide, has to do with the "time warp". At the time that TiVo patented it, it was a very revolutionary idea.

If you look at the history of TiVo / Dish it is pretty clear that Dish simply stole the tech inside the dev box TiVo sent to them. This entire thing is from the Series 1 days.

TiVo didn't just go after Dish because they felt like it (and not every other DVR manufacture out there), they went after them because it is obvious they ganked the tech.
I agree. Not all patents are bogus. TIVO did create the original DVR and Dish flat out stole out. They SHOULD have to pay royalties.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322884 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:56:38 EDT Re: Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322827 wanderance : Doesn't have anything to do with the guide, has to do with the "time warp". At the time that TiVo patented it, it was a very revolutionary idea.

If you look at the history of TiVo / Dish it is pretty clear that Dish simply stole the tech inside the dev box TiVo sent to them. This entire thing is from the Series 1 days.

TiVo didn't just go after Dish because they felt like it (and not every other DVR manufacture out there), they went after them because it is obvious they ganked the tech.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322827 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:39:47 EDT Tivo blows http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322698 MooJohn : Yep, apparently only one company is supposed to be allowed to offer an onscreen guide with recording ability. I'm sure Tivo has patented nearly every button on the remote control and the order and manner by which they're accessed.

I'll take my Dish recorder over a Tivo box any day.

For my non-satellite sources, I use a multi-tuner box running GBPVR :D

It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method!
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John M - Cranky network guy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20322698 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:12:12 EDT