tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One | reply to Pseudo Effndream
Re: [Rant] Pseudoephedrine
You forgot to throw the terrorists, illegal immigrants, Hollywood and the liberal media in there chief. |
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cvrefugee
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Corona, CA
| reply to Meth Mouth
said by Meth Mouth :
If you'll pardon my saying so, I don't think you're quite grasping the logic here... What else should be legalized in your opinion? What other toxic substance should the U.S. allow law-abiding citizens to purchase? Cocaine? Marijuana? Heroin? |
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Legal Eyes
@247realmedia.com
| said by cvrefugee  :said by Meth Mouth :
If you'll pardon my saying so, I don't think you're quite grasping the logic here... What else should be legalized in your opinion? What other toxic substance should the U.S. allow law-abiding citizens to purchase? Cocaine? Marijuana? Heroin? Insecticides? Gasoline? Disinfectants? The drain cleaner you keep under the sink? Do you go around drinking (or bathing in) any of these? I hope not, because those are toxic substances, too, and readily available. The problem here is not the availability of "toxic substances."
(As an aside, I'm sure that people who have cocaine and marijuana habits will be surprised to learn that they've been ingesting a "toxic substance" all this time. Just because taking too much of a given plant (marijuana) or plant extract (cocaine) is Not A Good Idea, that doesn't necessarily make it toxic.)
Look, if you want to pretend that politicians passing laws against "bad things" makes those bad things go away, despite a proven demand (market) for those "bad things," go right ahead: politicians do it all the time.
But our drug policy has yet to show the first sign of working and has served to make us the laughingstock of the world. It's high time that the drug problem stop being treated as a criminal problem (and relatively late in our history at that, with 1914 marking the passage of the Harrison Act) and started being treated as a health problem, (both physical and mental) which is what it actually is.
Of course, changing direction like this won't help keep the prisons full, or allow law enforcement to buy newer and shinier toys with the proceeds gotten from confiscating property from "drug dealers" (real or imagined). Which is why it will never happen: there's too much money to be made in fighting a never-ending "war" that provides a convenient cover to steal property from people and toss them into prison on the flimsiest of pretexts, allowing these now-impoverished people to be used as slave labor (allowing yet more money to be wrung out of them).
If, on the other hand, you think the War on Drugs is on the verge of being won after thirty-seven years of non-results, well, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. |
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Da Chief
@247realmedia.com
| reply to tapeloop
said by tapeloop :You forgot to throw the terrorists, illegal immigrants, Hollywood and the liberal media in there chief. Perhaps that's because none of those things you mention has anything even remotely to do with Americans who feel they're automatically entitled to be treated like adults, yet insist on behaving exactly as children do (by expecting someone else to step in and clean up their messes for them).
Of course, living in Airstrip One, I expect you know all about that as well, eh? It would be snobbish of me to insist that we in the US have a lock on that kind of behaviour (more's the pity). |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| said by Da Chief :
Perhaps that's because none of those things you mention has anything even remotely to do with Americans who feel they're automatically entitled to be treated like adults, yet insist on behaving exactly as children do (by expecting someone else to step in and clean up their messes for them).
Of course, living in Airstrip One, I expect you know all about that as well, eh? It would be snobbish of me to insist that we in the US have a lock on that kind of behaviour (more's the pity).
»This Country is Going Down The Shitter !
But then you'd have to register. |
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Da Chief
@MBL.EDU
| Sadly, I don't think registering will help: I get a "Board does not exist" message when I click on the link you thoughtfully provided.
So perhaps it's not the country that's going down the shitter after all, but DSLR. |
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craig70130
Premium
join:2004-04-27
New Orleans, LA | You have to be registered to access that board. |
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Da Chief
@MBL.EDU
| said by craig70130 :You have to be registered to access that board. I thought that if you we're trying to access of forum that requires registration, you were prompted to register, not presented with a "Board does not exist" message?
Oh, well.
At any rate, when the government starts regulating the amount of cold medicine you can buy, I'm not convinced it's a sign that Happy Days Are Here Again. To say nothing of the latest round of Keynesian economic nonsense. |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to craig70130
said by craig70130 :You have to be registered to access that board. I believe you have to have at least one star(level 1) hence the old names stars pub and stars watercooler.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
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joeblow
join:2007-07-14
Knoxville, TN
| reply to craig70130
said by craig70130 :Allegra = antihistamime Sudafed = decongestant apples & oranges Allegra-D = antihistamime + Sudafed (pseudoephedrine) well in my case alergies gave me a runny nose and long term snius infections (many) so if you eliminate the first you dont get the second. But you needed me to type that all out I bet just for a laugh. |
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Count Zero
MD2Be
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Warner Robins, GA
 ·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to Jim Gurd
You can still get codeine OTC legally.
A lot of pharmacies just don't stock it because it is extra paperwork for them. Luckily my wife is a pharmacist.
As for making meth legal... haha. That's one drug that does NOT need to be made legal.
I'm OK with marijuana being legal, and OK with something like codeine or even a stronger variant being made legal... but things like meth, cocaine, etc. can cause people to have SERIOUS psychological and physiological problems. |
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ykronic
Premium
join:2006-01-31
Canada
| said by Count Zero :I'm OK with marijuana being legal, and OK with something like codeine or even a stronger variant being made legal... but things like meth, cocaine, etc. can cause people to have SERIOUS psychological and physiological problems. If you don't think pot causes long term psychological and physiological problems then you've never met my friends/coworkers  |
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Count Zero
MD2Be
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Warner Robins, GA | Not saying it doesn't - but meth and coke are a lot more dangerous. Heck cigarettes probably have roughly the same long-term health effect as cigarettes in terms of # of debilitating diseases and such, but they are legal. |
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gabeman
join:2001-05-03
Philadelphia, PA
clubs:
·Hotwire Communicat..
| reply to KickMe
The stuff they replaced pseudoephedrine with doesn't work at all. Regular NyQuil is basically worthless now. I'm sure that all of the drug dealers are closing up shop because you can't buy it off the rack 
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Rest in Peace Hunter S Thompson."There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to MadMANN
said by MadMANN :said by Jim Gurd :If people want to kill themselves with meth that's their problem and their choice to suffer the consequences. It isn't the government's responsibility to protect people from their own foolishness. I agree with you in that the war on drugs is a waste of money and resources. However, with meth, it isn't just about people killing themselves with the drug. The people who manufacture the drugs often do so in places close to where other people reside, which endangers the lives of anyone within a few blocks of them. A home meth lab is a very toxic environment and can cause a chemical explosion that can poison the air and potentially kill any man, woman, or child around. There was a meth lab discovered nearby to me in a motel and the HazMat team was quoted as saying that they couldn't believe that the motel wasn't a pile of rubble because of the way the chemicals were stored and handled. I don't know about you, but that is a scary thought to me. All that said, it is a sad day when you can't go to the pharmacy to get medicine that works well for your allergies because of the few that use it in ways that for which it was not intended. However, there are many prescription and non-prescription alternatives to Pseudoephedrine these days that tend to work just as well or better without the speed. It's kind of like when they took morphine off the shelves back in the day. There were people who said, "But it worked so well! Why do I have to suffer for it?". . . .Er, cause taking Morphine for a headache is like using dynamite to get rid of a bees nest? Which is a result of meth being illegal. If it was legal they could safely manufacture it in a factory instead of in a clandestine lab by an inexperienced person just trying to make quick buck (they obviously have no regards for safety, the law or anything except making a quick buck)
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 |
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Kain
join:2003-05-01
Portland, OR
| said by joako :Which is a result of meth being illegal. If it was legal they could safely manufacture it in a factory instead of in a clandestine lab by an inexperienced person just trying to make quick buck (they obviously have no regards for safety, the law or anything except making a quick buck) I would go so far to say that clandestine labs generally put out a relatively safe product. The problem is in the unknown concentration of the product. To be a responsible drug user you need kits to tell you how concentrated the drug is to use it safely. Imagine if every time you drank a beer you could get anywhere from 1 - 5 shot equivalents. Drink 5 beers (or shots or whatever) and you could be tipsy or you could be dead. Legalizing currently illicit drugs would go a long ways towards reducing the number of deaths and hospitalizations from drugs. |
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CipherDias
join:2006-05-16
USA | reply to KickMe
**IF** you have a LEGITIMATE need for more than you can get over the counter then just get a prescription for it from your Doctor. |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX
| reply to KickMe
I have a few thoughts. It is difficult to segregate the "health care" crisis from several other things happening today.
First, malpractice insurance coverage is skyrocketing.
Much of this is due to the many frivolous and baseless lawsuits that are allowed to proceed. They clog our legal system and increase costs for the health care industry. One step is to pass legislation that protects providers from frivolous lawsuits. Stabilization and tort reform will help bring down operating costs.
For example, if you're told before a procedure that there is significant risk, and you elect to have the procedure anyway, and it doesn't work, if the doctor is not negligent you shouldn't be able to sue.
Second, who is covered.
Those who cannot afford private health insurance should get basic coverage. Illegal immigrants should be denied coverage. That may seem cruel to some, but honestly, I don't give a fuck. I'm pro immigration, just do it legally. Legal immigrants should get the same benefits as citizens. How do we figure out who is covered? I'm not sure, there's way too many variables here to just arbitrarily throw out a number. Maybe some sort of health care voucher system, that is phased out as your income increases.
If someone is wealthy and wants to pay privately for their health care themselves - LET THEM.
Third, funding.
The US spends incredibly insane amounts of money on foreign aid, helping 3rd and 4th world countries and regions. That needs to be cut back severely. I don't believe that we should be sending money overseas to help others while we have Vets living on the streets, getting denied coverage. Let the UN do that. I'm all for philanthropy as long as our own are taken care of first. Cruel? Maybe. Responsible? yes.
We also need to hurry the hell up and GFTO of Iraq. Either that, or make Iraq start funding the effort. They could pay the US military like private contractors.
Anything the fed pays for is paid for by us, through our taxes. The graduated system of federal income tax is broken. I believe there should be a flat income tax, across the board for all. Just like sales tax. You buy a $500 TV instead of the $1000 TV, then you pay less in sales tax. The tax code could be reduced to a single sheet of paper. No loopholes, no tax exempt. Everyone pays the same.
I would also eliminate automatic employer withholding. I think taxes should be paid at every paycheck, to the fed, by the person owing the tax. Write the check, or send the e-payment, or whatever. Maybe if people have to actually do that, then they might wake up and realize exactly what they're forking over.
I would also create a way for those that feel guilty about how much money they make, to pay "extra" to the federal government. Do you know that right now, you cannot do that? You cannot pay more taxes than you owe. How absurd. If only there was a way to assuage the guilt they're carrying by letting them pay more than their "share".
Where to go?
I would much rather see us move to a mass "free market" type system. Our current system is not a free market system. Employers control our choices and it is exceedingly difficult to switch plans. There is this concept of "in" and "out" of network providers. We need to get rid of that. Small business owners also don't have the "buying" power as large companies do with insurance companies. Policies seem to change with each open enrollment (why are we locked into that anyway), and it can be highly confusing to Joe Consumer.
Like I mentioned above, maybe the fed should provide some sort of graduated voucher system for low income to help them pay for their coverages.
Health Spending Accounts and Flexible Spending Accounts are a step in the right direction, however they need to be improved. I would very much like to see it expanded to preventative care and not just reactive care. For example, why can't I use my FSA for my gym membership? It seems idiotic that I cannot.
Now, not being expert in the health care field, I can assure you this is not foolproof. However, I think this starts to address some of the issues plaguing our current situation. My opinion is my own. Your mileage my vary. Call now while supplies last.
--
Corona "No, make no mistake. It's not revenge he's after; it's a reckoning."
Check out the band 1000 Miles From Home |
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Johnny
Premium
join:2001-06-27
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Amazing. See - we agree.
Regarding the malpractice - I agree. I would pay $250K a year if I were doing private OB.
The best and simplest solution to baseless suits is to make the loser pay if it goes to trial.
As long as everyone is covered, that's all I want. Sliding scale, fine.
Also agree with stopping sending money for ungrateful Iraquis and spend it here on our veterans. Anything it takes to give our soldiers the Cadillac of care, should be provided.
Private insurance should of course still be available. This ain't Cuba.
Actually, those who feel guilty CAN send in a check to reduce the national debt.
We should pay for the veterans and the uninsured by revoking the ridiculous tax cuts on the wealthy and removing the income limit for Social Security, and repealing the non-negotiation clause of Medicare Part D.
Also, tax corporations a little bit to fund the health care, but cancel the tax increases if a corporation employs American workers instead of outsourcing the jobs. |
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Count Zero
MD2Be
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Warner Robins, GA
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
4 edits | reply to Corona
We have some middle ground here - though you're still not completely getting the need for Universal Healthcare.
I agree - Tort reform is long over-due, and where it has been enacted it has been helpful in reducing the amount doctors are paying towards malpractice insurance and legal fees.
Let me ask why you feel a system that gives poor(er) people a set standard of care but excludes wealthy would be cheaper for the wealthy than just having everyone covered under the same plan?
Keeping everyone under a common umbrella means that hospitals and doctors have less paperwork to do, less overhead, and can afford to accept a smaller reimbursement for their services and still receive a globally competitive paycheck (which is important since we want to keep the brightest minds in healthcare). It also allows for the power of collective buying (especially important with drug companies) to keep prices lower across the board (meaning either a doctor and hospital takes what the insurance rate is or works on a cash-only basis (which is entirely their prerogative). So you come into my office and you need an echocardiogram, I know exactly what I'll receive for that procedure and I know I won't have to dance through hoops to receive my payment since your insurance company doesn't automatically deny my initial request for payment and instead ask for extra paperwork to receive my compensation.
I don't see why anyone would want private insurance when they could have a public one that didn't involve loop-holes and deductibles (or at least very low ones) and the like and was cheaper since they were already paying taxes to support a base level of care for everyone... but as long as doctors aren't allowed to accept private insurance without also accepting the public system then I have NO problem allowing private insurance to co-exist.
I'd have to agree about the statement we give too much of our money to foreign countries while we have problems at home.
I also agree that we should make the Iraqi government pay ALL of the costs associated with the military occupation of Iraq since they're reaping a windfall from oil prices. In fact I think that we should even go so far as to receive compensation for all this previous time we've spent in their country.
Taxes - I don't know if a flat tax is really the best option, though I think it's a LOT better than the fair tax. We desperately need to simplify our tax code though, and close a lot of loop holes that are currently being used to evade paying. Perhaps a simpler progressive system in which people earning $5,000 or more would pay 0.1% of their income and then for every extra $1000 you earned the percentage would go up by .01% and then have a max cap at 50 or 60% (which means a 5th grader to do the math to see how much was owed based on a certain income. Those numbers are obviously subject to changed based on what would amount to (in the real world) paying for our government's operating expenses.
You are free to pay more than you owe in taxes:
If you want to contribute toward reducing the national debt, write a check to the Bureau of the Public Debt, the federal agency within the Treasury Department that's responsible for accounting for and reporting the national debt.
Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Public Debt
P.O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
The problem with HSAs and the like is that you have to have money to put into them in the first place. People who lack money in the primary sense will always be in trouble, and people who are barely keeping themselves afloat - living month to month due to bills such as mortgage, car payments and ever more expensive food bills - will never truly benefit from such a system.
A universal healthcare system has it's downsides, but when you consider just how many people you're helping it is well worth it.
I agree that we need to emphasize preventative care - and if we had a Universal System then EVERYONE can see a physician on a regular basis - maybe they could even stipulate that if you don't see your physician for an annual check-up you can be fined? Something like $100, enough that everyone will go see their doctor once a year just to check for the regular stuff.
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Check out my site: »web.mac.com/jwsmiths
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