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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| reply to KrK
Re: Build your own network if you're unhappy...
said by KrK  :Personally, consumers should not just take this crap. They *need* to raise holy hell about it, because the companies sure aren't going to act in their best interests just out of the goodness of their hearts. Then take your business elsewhere. You don't need the government to be your nanny. Or do you?
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Build your own network if you're unhappy...
said by TKJunkMail :Then take your business elsewhere. Ok I had DSL. I took my business elsewhere, to Cable. Next? Wireless? Not available? Satellite? Not feasible or economical. Other option, "Do without?" Yeah, ok. Nope. Bring on the Government. Real competition, or regulation. Enough of this non-competition unregulated BS.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
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| reply to TKJunkMail
Even Adam Smith said that Capitalism requires regulation to mitigate the baser instinct of men and their greed. Adam Smith. You know, The Big Kahuna of Capitalism? Surely, you have heard of him?
Besides, look around, like at the mortgage market and petroleum prices and their effects on the economy at large: deregulation really worked out swimmingly there, didn't it? Deregulation like the repeal of The Glass-Steagall Act, wherein the taxpayers are picking up the tab for the "unintended effects" and the complete lack of regulation on the hedge funds and credit markets..
Man, always lots of doctrine and a paucity of factual information from the dereg crowd.
Now, where do you get those neat "epic fail" pictures? | |
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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| said by TScheisskopf :Now, where do you get those neat "epic fail" pictures? De-regulation and allowing the Big Players to "Self-Govern"...
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
LegoPower77
Abecedarian
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join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| reply to TScheisskopf
said by TScheisskopf :Man, always lots of doctrine and a paucity of factual information from the dereg crowd. Man, there's always a lot of cherry-picking from the government-cures-all crowd.
The 1700s concept of regulation was where the state acts as a traffic cop making sure the rules are enforced. 21st Century regulation is government dictating the shape of the market.
Adam Smith's view of regulation was in the negative sense, i.e., we have only the obligation not to encumber people in their pursuits.
It's quite a twist of logic to pick out his use of the term and say it means that governments need to direct every last aspect of the marketplace (and if you say you're not advocating that, then we agree: there is a point where there is too much government action).
The other logical fallacy of yours is the Post hoc ergo propter hoc. You have said that if we hadn't repealed Glass-Stegal then there would be no recession. Of course we can't prove a negative.
It's simply not fair to lay every perceived bad occurrence at the feet of deregulation. As with most economic problems, we find the hand of government. The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, whose provisions were strengthened during the Clinton administration, is a federal law that mandates lenders to offer credit throughout their entire market and discourages them from restricting their credit services to high-income markets, a practice known as redlining. In other words, the Community Reinvestment Act encourages banks and thrifts to make loans to riskier customers. But of course they were not allowed to charge a higher rate to offset the risk.
The apostles of big government and those who argue for freedom have an impasse. While the pro-regulators say we need to prevent any and all economic downturns, the free market person recognizes that markets correct and that risky/bad decisions have negative consequences and through the reward and punishment machinations of the marketplace, the best outcome is reached over time.
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"It is a melancholy reflection that liberty should be equally exposed to danger whether the government have too much or too little power."—James Madison
It's right, it's free. | |
TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
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| I would love to point out that I have been following this very closely. Thoughts for you to remember about Smith:
"When the regulation is in support of the workman, it is always just and equitable — but it is sometimes otherwise when in favour of the masters." - Adam Smith
The distinguished American economist John Kenneth Galbraith said about "The Wealth of Nations:" “It is much celebrated by the ministry of the righteous right, few of whom have read it." (Source: Sherrod Brown, The Globalist)
And as far as putting forward the trope that the bad loans that were written were somehow the fault of the people in potentially redlined districts, that is risable. The sins of the very-less-than-optimally-regulated(and even criminal) mortgage industry, in league with a credit derivatives market run amok and crazed caused the collection of situations we now face and there is a direct cause and effect relationship to the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Hell, even that noted barotone in the Red Army Chorus, Hank Paulson, admits that much more regulation is needed. I would add that I don't know where you got this idea that the victims are in fact at fault, because that is what the redlining argument intimates, but I would cast a very baleful eye at such transparent sophistry, were I you. It's one thing to redline, another to invest in inner cities and minority communities and what we are now reaping the fruits of has nothing at all to do with either.
And yes, markets correct. Depressions and recessions are market corrections writ all too large. Andrew Mellon, when asked what a depression is, stated "It is when money returns to its rightful owners". Surely, the same can be said of recessions. If we are really lucky, that is all we are in the early days of experiencing, a recession. But I find it hard to believe that anyone other than a doctrinaire corporate lickspittle could look at the lay of the land and say "Hey! I know EXACTLY what will fix things! Less regulation and more Laffer Curve!".
I mean, even Laffer admits he might have gotten things a bit wrong. I hope such honesty is the start of a trend. | |
ThoughT2010
@sonotechnique.ca
| reply to KrK
cable and dsl companies normally sublease their network to other companies..
Bell Canada here subleases to several other companies, I'm currently using Acanac, which is bell sympatico but without bell's restrictions (port 25 being blocked, and whatever else)
Apparently rogers canada does the same (cable) | |
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