ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Dem contributing trial lawyers & election politics holdup
said by TKJunkMail  :said by ackman : It is documented that Bush and fascist cronies started illegally wiretapping long before 9/11/01. The US has been tapping the phone systems since the 50's, including Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy and all the other liberal Dems. And this won't change if Obama or Hillary gets elected president. Actually, it will be quite entertaining to hear all the dim-witted narrow minded conservatives squeal like stuck pigs about wiretapping if a democrat wins the White House. Funny how little punk conservatives love to throw around "liberal" as a derogatory label, as if it's a bad thing to be a free thinker and differ from a narrow convention held by people so frightened of change. Hey, conservatives, look behind you, it's Bin Laden! BOO! Ha ha... |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to wierdo
said by wierdo : The emancipation proclamation did not apply to US territory, it only applied to the states in rebellion. The commander in chief, especially back then when there were few laws to govern the use of that authority, could proclaim whatever he pleased to be the law of the land in foreign territory. At the time, the rebellious states were foreign territory. The problem is that Lincoln insisted the states had no right to leave the union, that it was a domestic dispute, not a war against a foreign territory.
This is partly why Lincoln opposed some of his generals who, before the proclamation, refused to return runaway slaves to their owners. The generals justified this by calling slaves spoils of war. Lincoln didn't believe the states had withdrawn from the union and their rights. It's also why Lincoln originally favored compensation to slave states who voluntarily freed their slaves.
Mark |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :For example, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was illegal according to the letter of the law. The 13th amendment made it legal. His action was still illegal by the letter of the law, but most people would say it was legal by the spirit of the law (the larger context of how it was made legal later). Yet again, you find yourself on the wrong side of an analogy. The emancipation proclamation did not apply to US territory, it only applied to the states in rebellion. The commander in chief, especially back then when there were few laws to govern the use of that authority, could proclaim whatever he pleased to be the law of the land in foreign territory. At the time, the rebellious states were foreign territory.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | reply to amigo_boy
You've already been taken apart 5 times for using the "no criminal charges" excuse. |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :Funny how when you download music via bit torrent, it's seems to be ok. But when our gov't sifts through the network...it's facism. What a load of crap! Any person thats ever downloaded a song illegally is just as guilty as the gov't for "obtaining binary" that they're not entitled to! Are you being intentionally dense? If not, I'll be more than happy to explain the difference to you.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to JakCrow
said by JakCrow :Since the activities were illegal, a person has the duty to come forward, and there are provisions for such whistle blowers. It's yet to be proven they were illegal. It's hard to believe they were illegal when no criminal charges have been brought.
And, when 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) and U.S.C. 2702(a)(3) & (c) both provide a legal basis for the activities. We know the former may have applied because Comey admitted in testimony that the AG certified wiretapping.
The former was expanded in 2006 to better accommodate the government's claimed needs (not reduce it). When a law is expanded to cover an activity, it tends to prove that the activity wasn't illegal (in spirit). For example, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was illegal according to the letter of the law. The 13th amendment made it legal. His action was still illegal by the letter of the law, but most people would say it was legal by the spirit of the law (the larger context of how it was made legal later).
Same thing with Roosevelt violating the Neutrality Act by trading ships for bases. It was made legal a few months later by the Lend-Lease Act.
Mark |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :said by insomniac84 :Republicans are for less government. No.... not really. Maybe once. These days, the Republican party merely gives lip service to this, while actually increasing Government size and expanding Government Scope and Power at previously unheard of speed... (Well, since WWII. anyway.) Republicans these days all seem to be about "Keep your hands off our money" and "No business regulation for OUR businesses" but want strict control over everything else.... People would be hard pressed to find a moment in time when republicans really practiced what they preach. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by JakCrow :And the idea that a person should keep quiet when said surveillance is illegal goes against everything this country stands for. If activity adhered to the law it didn't go against everything this country stands for. The law did. And the law's allowing data gathering been on the books for a very long time. I.e., there's been adequate time to have it repealed. Choosing to violate the law just because it's easier is the same thing the Administration is accused of doing. Mark Since the activities were illegal, a person has the duty to come forward, and there are provisions for such whistle blowers. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to insomniac84
said by insomniac84 :Republicans are for less government. No.... not really. Maybe once. These days, the Republican party merely gives lip service to this, while actually increasing Government size and expanding Government Scope and Power at previously unheard of speed... (Well, since WWII. anyway.)
Republicans these days all seem to be about "Keep your hands off our money" and "No business regulation for OUR businesses" but want strict control over everything else....
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :LOL. Sure they do. How naive of you. Oh I'm not saying it's quick. It takes a long time, but eventually the revolution happens, the the Empires fall. |
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brandpc
join:2003-08-25
Canton, CT
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to TKJunkMail
COINTELPRO was no were near the size of the current program which the administration has developed:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cointelpro
And in regards to your comment in general, I love how you attempt to make it seem as if only liberals are being wiretapped --- despite how you have no real backing on that.
MLK was being wiretapped too by COINTELPRO. It really doesn't matter who it was. It was illegal, is illegal, and still should be illegal. And someone needs to stop it (clearly not you). |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to ackman
said by ackman : It is documented that Bush and fascist cronies started illegally wiretapping long before 9/11/01. The US has been tapping the phone systems since the 50's, including Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy and all the other liberal Dems. And this won't change if Obama or Hillary gets elected president.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :said by INT0CABLE :then weirdo its right this is not republican and i should have known better because ron paul doesnt approve of this blown in your face violation of civil liberties. it's fascist (and corporatist) crap. Funny how when you download music via bit torrent, it's seems to be ok. But when our gov't sifts through the network...it's facism. What a load of crap! Any person thats ever downloaded a song illegally is just as guilty as the gov't for "obtaining binary" that they're not entitled to! Thank You Verizon...Thank You AT&T and all others that helped when we needed you. And by the way...why the hell hasn't Mark Klien been indicted? That was a pretty dimwitted and uninformed comment you made. It is documented that Bush and fascist cronies started illegally wiretapping long before 9/11/01. Since they couldn't prevent the largest attack on the mainland US in history, how do you feel that AT&T helped when we needed them? And if they were so patriotic, why is it that wiretapping stopped when the FBI was delinquent on paying the bill to AT&T? I don't think people really buy all the lies and propaganda from the reich wing anymore. |
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MakesNoSenseDude
@dyndns.org
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by Dan888 :Do you feel it is unnecessary to determine if the companies violated the constitution? We do not even know what they need immunity for yet, if anything, as the cases are still ongoing and it is worth knowing what they did before we just give them immunity. The companies followed requests of the government to defend the nation. No different than our soldiers in Iraq do in following the orders of the government, even though some(not me) consider our actions their criminal. Should we jail all our returning soldiers for obeying the orders of the government that sent them there? Because you are saying that telecom employees should be penalized for following government requests for info. Isn't this the defense Hitler's SS used at the Nuermburg trials?
"Just following orders." |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | reply to amigo_boy
Amigo, you are not a republican then. Republicans are for less government. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to KrK
Re: Dem contributing trial lawyers & election politics holdup
said by KrK : The People always win in the end LOL. Sure they do. How naive of you. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Telecom Pro
said by Telecom Pro :said by rahvin112 :They tapped ALL phone calls. Domestic and foreign. And what evidence do you have to support this outrageous assertion? possibly more than you have to disprove the assertion, anon. troll. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to INT0CABLE
said by INT0CABLE :then weirdo its right this is not republican and i should have known better because ron paul doesnt approve of this blown in your face violation of civil liberties. it's fascist (and corporatist) crap. Funny how when you download music via bit torrent, it's seems to be ok. But when our gov't sifts through the network...it's facism. What a load of crap!
Any person thats ever downloaded a song illegally is just as guilty as the gov't for "obtaining binary" that they're not entitled to!
Thank You Verizon...Thank You AT&T and all others that helped when we needed you.
And by the way...why the hell hasn't Mark Klien been indicted? |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :The lawsuits should proceed. You may want us to throw all civil liberties under the wheels of the administration, but I don't. Worse, it's like changing the rules of the game in the middle of the third quarter because your team isn't ahead quite as far as you'd like.
(And it's a bad idea, but that's purely my opinion)
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. |
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