KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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1 edit | reply to amigo_boy
Re: Dem contributing trial lawyers & election politics holdup
said by amigo_boy  :I was just replying to the incessant statements that "a crime was committed" or "they broke the law." If those statements are true, the place to prove it is in a criminal court, not civil. Many proponents of these civil suits have openly stated that it's being done because it's easier than seeking criminal charges. (Which sounds a lot like what the corner-cutting which the Administration is accused of.). You have repeated this theme several times. This type of logic goes like this "Because no criminal prosecution is occurring, no criminal activity must of occurred."
That's bassackwards. As I have stated before, a citizen cannot bring criminal charges against someone or some organization... all they can do is allege or accuse! It's up to the GOVERNMENT to FILE criminal charges. In this case, the Administration is complicit and equally guilty, and so THEY AREN'T filing charges against themselves, are they?
This means the *only* recourse a citizen has to bring out the truth IS a civil case. Any citizen can file a civil lawsuit. A citizen *CANNOT* file a criminal prosecution!
Sheesh! Round and round, and still you keep saying the same thing. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to TKJunkMail
If you can't beat Facism, become a Facist then, eh?
No thanks. The People always win in the end, even if they have to tear down the castles and drag the facists from their beds and hang them... eventually.... the Empire falls. |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :Sorry. I didn't realize I changed the topic. You complained that it's impossible for criminal charges to be brought due to the current administration. I responded that you have political options such as 1) pressure Congress to hold hearings (and call for prosecutions depending on the results). And, 2) use the election process to replace those who you believe aren't pursuing justice. Congressional hearings do not equal criminal prosecutions.
Somehow, I expect that the folks who are obstructing the workings of the criminal justice system will not be returning. Well, unless they decide to truly wipe their ass with the Constitution. I'm so very glad that Roosevelt had that third term. Were it not for him, we wouldn't have term limits any longer. Of course, I doubt that Bush could be elected again anyway, but it's nice to have certainty that he will be departing.
said by amigo_boy :I was just replying to the incessant statements that "a crime was committed" or "they broke the law." If those statements are true, the place to prove it is in a criminal court, not civil. Many proponents of these civil suits have openly stated that it's being done because it's easier than seeking criminal charges. (Which sounds a lot like what the corner-cutting which the Administration is accused of.). No one needs to prove it to you, and regardless of your opinion on the civil suit, there are statutory damages specified in law. Why? Because the people who wrote the law were well aware that many instances of this malfeasance would not be prosecuted. Interestingly, it's the same reason why many environmental laws and quite a few trade regulations have a private cause of action specifically written into them.
Obviously, civil court is one of the places for this, given that it's written into the law.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to KrK
said by KrK :The lawsuits should proceed. You may want us to throw all civil liberties under the wheels of the administration, but I don't. Worse, it's like changing the rules of the game in the middle of the third quarter because your team isn't ahead quite as far as you'd like.
(And it's a bad idea, but that's purely my opinion)
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
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| reply to INT0CABLE
said by INT0CABLE :then weirdo its right this is not republican and i should have known better because ron paul doesnt approve of this blown in your face violation of civil liberties. it's fascist (and corporatist) crap. Funny how when you download music via bit torrent, it's seems to be ok. But when our gov't sifts through the network...it's facism. What a load of crap!
Any person thats ever downloaded a song illegally is just as guilty as the gov't for "obtaining binary" that they're not entitled to!
Thank You Verizon...Thank You AT&T and all others that helped when we needed you.
And by the way...why the hell hasn't Mark Klien been indicted? |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
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clubs:
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| reply to Telecom Pro
said by Telecom Pro :said by rahvin112 :They tapped ALL phone calls. Domestic and foreign. And what evidence do you have to support this outrageous assertion? possibly more than you have to disprove the assertion, anon. troll. |
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TKJunkMail
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Avalon, NJ
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| reply to KrK
said by KrK : The People always win in the end LOL. Sure they do. How naive of you. |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | reply to amigo_boy
Re: Dem contributing trial lawyers & election politics holdup
Amigo, you are not a republican then. Republicans are for less government. |
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MakesNoSenseDude
@dyndns.org
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by Dan888 :Do you feel it is unnecessary to determine if the companies violated the constitution? We do not even know what they need immunity for yet, if anything, as the cases are still ongoing and it is worth knowing what they did before we just give them immunity. The companies followed requests of the government to defend the nation. No different than our soldiers in Iraq do in following the orders of the government, even though some(not me) consider our actions their criminal. Should we jail all our returning soldiers for obeying the orders of the government that sent them there? Because you are saying that telecom employees should be penalized for following government requests for info. Isn't this the defense Hitler's SS used at the Nuermburg trials?
"Just following orders." |
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ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :said by INT0CABLE :then weirdo its right this is not republican and i should have known better because ron paul doesnt approve of this blown in your face violation of civil liberties. it's fascist (and corporatist) crap. Funny how when you download music via bit torrent, it's seems to be ok. But when our gov't sifts through the network...it's facism. What a load of crap! Any person thats ever downloaded a song illegally is just as guilty as the gov't for "obtaining binary" that they're not entitled to! Thank You Verizon...Thank You AT&T and all others that helped when we needed you. And by the way...why the hell hasn't Mark Klien been indicted? That was a pretty dimwitted and uninformed comment you made. It is documented that Bush and fascist cronies started illegally wiretapping long before 9/11/01. Since they couldn't prevent the largest attack on the mainland US in history, how do you feel that AT&T helped when we needed them? And if they were so patriotic, why is it that wiretapping stopped when the FBI was delinquent on paying the bill to AT&T? I don't think people really buy all the lies and propaganda from the reich wing anymore. |
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TKJunkMail
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| said by ackman : It is documented that Bush and fascist cronies started illegally wiretapping long before 9/11/01. The US has been tapping the phone systems since the 50's, including Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy and all the other liberal Dems. And this won't change if Obama or Hillary gets elected president.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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brandpc
join:2003-08-25
Canton, CT
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| COINTELPRO was no were near the size of the current program which the administration has developed:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cointelpro
And in regards to your comment in general, I love how you attempt to make it seem as if only liberals are being wiretapped --- despite how you have no real backing on that.
MLK was being wiretapped too by COINTELPRO. It really doesn't matter who it was. It was illegal, is illegal, and still should be illegal. And someone needs to stop it (clearly not you). |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :LOL. Sure they do. How naive of you. Oh I'm not saying it's quick. It takes a long time, but eventually the revolution happens, the the Empires fall. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| reply to insomniac84
said by insomniac84 :Republicans are for less government. No.... not really. Maybe once. These days, the Republican party merely gives lip service to this, while actually increasing Government size and expanding Government Scope and Power at previously unheard of speed... (Well, since WWII. anyway.)
Republicans these days all seem to be about "Keep your hands off our money" and "No business regulation for OUR businesses" but want strict control over everything else....
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by JakCrow :And the idea that a person should keep quiet when said surveillance is illegal goes against everything this country stands for. If activity adhered to the law it didn't go against everything this country stands for. The law did. And the law's allowing data gathering been on the books for a very long time. I.e., there's been adequate time to have it repealed. Choosing to violate the law just because it's easier is the same thing the Administration is accused of doing. Mark Since the activities were illegal, a person has the duty to come forward, and there are provisions for such whistle blowers. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :said by insomniac84 :Republicans are for less government. No.... not really. Maybe once. These days, the Republican party merely gives lip service to this, while actually increasing Government size and expanding Government Scope and Power at previously unheard of speed... (Well, since WWII. anyway.) Republicans these days all seem to be about "Keep your hands off our money" and "No business regulation for OUR businesses" but want strict control over everything else.... People would be hard pressed to find a moment in time when republicans really practiced what they preach. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
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| reply to JakCrow
said by JakCrow :Since the activities were illegal, a person has the duty to come forward, and there are provisions for such whistle blowers. It's yet to be proven they were illegal. It's hard to believe they were illegal when no criminal charges have been brought.
And, when 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) and U.S.C. 2702(a)(3) & (c) both provide a legal basis for the activities. We know the former may have applied because Comey admitted in testimony that the AG certified wiretapping.
The former was expanded in 2006 to better accommodate the government's claimed needs (not reduce it). When a law is expanded to cover an activity, it tends to prove that the activity wasn't illegal (in spirit). For example, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was illegal according to the letter of the law. The 13th amendment made it legal. His action was still illegal by the letter of the law, but most people would say it was legal by the spirit of the law (the larger context of how it was made legal later).
Same thing with Roosevelt violating the Neutrality Act by trading ships for bases. It was made legal a few months later by the Lend-Lease Act.
Mark |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
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| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :Funny how when you download music via bit torrent, it's seems to be ok. But when our gov't sifts through the network...it's facism. What a load of crap! Any person thats ever downloaded a song illegally is just as guilty as the gov't for "obtaining binary" that they're not entitled to! Are you being intentionally dense? If not, I'll be more than happy to explain the difference to you.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | reply to amigo_boy
You've already been taken apart 5 times for using the "no criminal charges" excuse. |
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