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<title>Chernobyl in Canadian Chat</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20396908</link>
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<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:18:32 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:18:32 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477542</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>It wasn't me who dragged mining into this thread. <br> </div>lol... :D   Let's follow the logic here...  you planted a bait thread allegedly about Chernobyl in order to promote coal power plants, threw in ill-informed drivel about the hazards of nuclear power, dragged us sideways into a digression to deny the reality of global warming, using as your main evidence another thread in which the poster had completely misunderstood the research he was quoting and had no idea what he was talking about and neither did you, then dragged us out of that one and sideways again down another blind alley to tell us Al Gore was no better informed than Jane Fonda, dragged us out again and into the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge to suggest drilling for oil there will solve all our problems forever, then dragged us out of there into some drivelling nonsense to say that no, it was actually synthetic fuels that will solve all our problems forever, and just generally dragged us through every irrelevant digression imaginable.........  and somehow I'm the one "who dragged mining into this"! :D  <br><br>You're too funny.  It's meaningless to consider the environmental impact of any energy source without evaluating the entire lifecycle including sourcing the raw material, whether it's mining, drilling, or farming.  Which is precisely why many synthetic fuels and biofuels are under attack, and why the 2007 U.S. Energy Bill mandates this lifecycle view of fuel impact. Likewise it's meaningless to consider the safety risks of any energy source without looking at the whole lifecycle. And by any measure, at any stage of the process, fossil fuels are the losers, and among fossil fuels, coal is just about the worst.  I think that's been made abundantly clear, although I fully expect another irrelevant digression.  Maybe there's something about antelopes in Zimbabwe you would like to tell us about.  ;)<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:40:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477220</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/328901"><b>Snickerdo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Personally I think you are one of the more articulate and brilliant posters here...</div>Clearly there is something terribly wrong with you if you think that about me, hah.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:33:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477127</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Wolfie00 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The issues with mining uranium are not news to anybody. Mining anything has risks and environmental impact.  Statistically and historically, however, uranium mining impacts are among the most manageable.  Virtually all natural uranium is the U-238 isotope, which has a half-life of almost four and a half billion years.  This means that its specific activity (i.e.- emitted radiation per unit of mass) is extremely low.  The risks that have to be managed are mainly to do with radon and dust inhalation.  Coal dust isn't great for the lungs either, by the way, if you've ever heard of black lung disease.<br><br>Your new-found concern for mining safety is a very strange position to take for someone who advocates coal -- one of the dirtiest, most dangerous, and most environmentally destructive minerals to mine, not to mention one of the most environmentally damaging to burn.<br> </div>Sorry Wolfie... It wasn't me who dragged mining into this thread. Please go back read the thread. My point has always been there are dangers to all forms of mining, regardless if it is coal, tin, silver, gold or uranium mining. My reference to uranium mining was to counter your initial posts about coal mining.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:13:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20476934</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1076827"><b>Styvas</b></A> : As with 9-11, turning Chernobyl into an opportunity to spread conspiracy theories only cheapens the sacrifice made by the heroes who worked to remedy the situation and shows disrespect to those who suffered and died as a result. Find somewhere else to troll please.<br><small>--<br>Check out the &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/primustbb">Primus TalkBroadband VoIP FAQ</A>.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:40:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20476812</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : The issues with mining uranium are not news to anybody. Mining anything has risks and environmental impact.  Statistically and historically, however, uranium mining impacts are among the most manageable.  Virtually all natural uranium is the U-238 isotope, which has a half-life of almost four and a half billion years.  This means that its specific activity (i.e.- emitted radiation per unit of mass) is extremely low.  The risks that have to be managed are mainly to do with radon and dust inhalation.  Coal dust isn't great for the lungs either, by the way, if you've ever heard of black lung disease.<br><br>Your new-found concern for mining safety is a very strange position to take for someone who advocates coal -- one of the dirtiest, most dangerous, and most environmentally destructive minerals to mine, not to mention one of the most environmentally damaging to burn.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:18:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20476260</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Sorry you feel that way about me... Personally I think you are one of the more articulate and brilliant posters here...<br><br>Quoting from the wiki on uranium mining....<br><br> <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>&raquo;<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#Health_risks_of_uranium_mining" >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mi&middot;&middot;&middot;m_mining</A><br><br>Health risks of uranium mining<br><br>Because uranium ore emits radon gas, uranium mining can be more dangerous than other underground mining, unless adequate ventilation systems are installed. During the 1950s, many Navajos in the U.S. became uranium miners, as many uranium deposits were discovered on Navajo reservations. A statistically significant subset of these early miners later developed small cell carcinoma after exposure to uranium ore.[31] Radon-222, a natural decay product of uranium, has been shown to be the cancer-causing agent.[32] Some American survivors and their descendants received compensation under the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act in 1990.<br><br>In January 2008 Areva was nominated for an Anti Oscar Award.[33] The French state-owned company mines uranium in northern Niger where mine workers are not informed about health risks, and analysis shows radioactive contamination of air, water and soil.The local organization that represents the mine workers, spoke of &#147;suspicious deaths among the workers, caused by radioactive dust and contaminated groundwater.&#148;[34]<br><hr></blockquote>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 15:30:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475424</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/328901"><b>Snickerdo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Sorry but BC has recently banned uranium mining and exploration.</div>... and this surprises you?  This is the province that also kicks and screams any time a nuclear-powered US naval vessel comes anywhere near the coast.  Uranium mining has also never been big in BC, but it's been a staple of Alberta and Saskatchewan mining for years.  <br><br>This is why I have no time or patience for your posts.  You're the Canchat equivalent of George Bush, making quick off-the-cuff remarks without thinking it through or taking the correct context.  You make a comment about uranium mining being banned in BC, when you damn well know that saying so has absolutely no bearing on the discussion we're having right now.  God dude, you frustrate the hell out of me and many other people here.<br><small>--<br>I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 12:55:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475212</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Sorry but BC has recently banned uranium mining and exploration.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.canadianminingjournal.com/issues/ISArticle.asp?id=83719&issue=04302008&ref=rss" >www.canadianminingjournal.com/is&middot;&middot;&middot;&ref=rss</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=e7fde005-364a-4ede-9c9c-8cdfeac172ed" >www.canada.com/vancouversun/news&middot;&middot;&middot;eac172ed</A><br><br><b>Whether or not this ban is warranted, I do not know.</b> <br> </div>If you don't know, may I suggest that you <b>read the articles that you posted yourself</b>!  Both articles in your own links argue that the ban is stupid.  For heaven's sake the title of the second one is "B.C.'s uranium ban is irrational, economically irresponsible"!  <br><br>It should not surprise you to learn that governments often make irrational decisions for political reasons, unless you have recently arrived from another planet.  When it comes to nuclear power, those pressures often come from citizens' groups driven by uninformed paranoia and a NIMBY mentality.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 12:14:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474711</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Sorry but BC has recently banned uranium mining and exploration.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.canadianminingjournal.com/issues/ISArticle.asp?id=83719&issue=04302008&ref=rss" >www.canadianminingjournal.com/is&middot;&middot;&middot;&ref=rss</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=e7fde005-364a-4ede-9c9c-8cdfeac172ed" >www.canada.com/vancouversun/news&middot;&middot;&middot;eac172ed</A><br><br>Whether or not this ban is warranted, I do not know. It could all be hysteria. I merely wish to point out some people do not share your view. And I'm sure there are others who do...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 10:43:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20466028</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/328901"><b>Snickerdo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>And uranium mining isn't dangerous or have environmental issues?</div>A simple google search shows that accidental death during uranium mining doesn't even scratch the surface of those caused during coal mining, even when taking the scale of operations into account.<br><small>--<br>I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 16:07:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20465859</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : And uranium mining isn't dangerous or have environmental issues?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 15:33:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20465555</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : I understand that.  Most of my comments were specifically about open-pit; the one that talks about mountain-top removal focuses on sludge and slurry impact.  As the article states, the creation of waste slurry is "common to other types of coal mining" including open-pit.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 14:04:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20465494</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/578590"><b>Mashiki</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_pit_mining" >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_pit_mining</A><br><br>Not strip.  Difference, and no not all open pits are the same.  However as much as some people like to make them.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 13:50:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20465479</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Mashiki - thanks for bringing to light the open pit method of mining coal.<br> </div>Yes, thanks for pointing out that there are methods of mining coal that are <b>even worse</b> than traditional mines!  Environmental damage from open-pit coal mines can occur over a wide area including air and water contamination with toxic waste; a study done in India near an open-pit coal mine showed the amount of suspended respirable particulate matter in the air to greatly exceed the air quality safety standards over large expanses of residential areas.<br><br>For instance...<br><blockquote><br>The Bush administration has objected to a proposed open-pit coal mine in Canada near the Montana border, citing the potential for irreversible environmental damage to Glacier National Park, pristine trout streams and the largest natural lake in the West.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/09/AR2007030901443.html" >www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co&middot;&middot;&middot;443.html</A><br><br>... In common with other methods of coal mining, processing the coal mined by mountaintop removal generates waste slurry (also called coal sludge), which is usually stored behind a dam on-site. Many coal slurry impoundments in West Virginia exceed 500 million gallons in volume, and some, including the Brushy Fork impoundment in Raleigh County, exceed 7 billion gallons. Such impoundments can be hundreds of feet high and be in close proximity to schools or private residences. The most controversial sludge dam at present sits 400 yards above Marsh Fork Elementary School. The sludge pond is permitted to hold 2.8 billion gallons of toxic sludge, and is 21 times larger than the pond which killed 125 people in the Buffalo Creek Flood.<br><br>Kentucky's Martin County Sludge Spill occurred after midnight on October 11, 2000 when a coal sludge impoundment broke through into an underground mine below, propelling 306 million gallons of sludge down two tributaries of the Tug Fork River. The spill polluted hundreds of miles of waterways, contaminated the water supply for over 27,000 residents, and killed all aquatic life in Coldwater Fork and Wolf Creek.<br><br>Blasting at a mountaintop removal mine expels coal dust and fly-rock into the air, which can then disturb or settle onto private property nearby. This dust contains sulfur compounds, which corrodes structures and tombstones and is a health hazard.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_mining#Strip_mining" >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_mini&middot;&middot;&middot;p_mining</A><br></blockquote><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>If nuclear energy is good then why is the west so upset with Iran?<br> </div>I believe that your usual uninformed series of non sequiturs has just hit a new low!  :uhh:<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 13:45:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20465474</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/578590"><b>Mashiki</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Mashiki - thanks for bringing to light the open pit method of mining coal.<br><br>If nuclear energy is good then why is the west so upset with Iran? </div>  I'm going to start by saying that most of this is generally supported by most western governments for a good reason. I'll try not to let this get dragged into Canpol while answering the question.  <br><br>With Iran, different thing all together.  No one would have an issue if it was for power; except we'll have the India and Pakistan issue again and probably on a larger scale spreading to other countries too with a non-NPT/CTBT signatory, where extraction technology is much more in the wild these days.  We have a fair idea that Iran won't honor any agreement and they wish exceptional harm not only to us(Canada) but to our allies, the leadership is unstable, there is no safeguards from medium to top on nuclear controls; the military itself suffers from factional infighting which can leave the most dangerous weapons we've ever made in the wrong hands.  In the end that leaves a few people to push the shiny red button if they get nukes.  <br><br> <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html">The Art of War</a><br>"Excessive law is no law." - Cicero</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 13:44:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20465218</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1487806"><b>BryceS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Mashiki - thanks for bringing to light the open pit method of mining coal.<br><br>If nuclear energy is good then why is the west so upset with Iran?<br> </div>I always thought there was more to the "west" than just America.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 12:22:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464768</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Mashiki - thanks for bringing to light the open pit method of mining coal.<br><br>If nuclear energy is good then why is the west so upset with Iran?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 10:07:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464649</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/771014"><b>yoyomhz</b></A> : There is yet another opinion on the Chernobyl catastrophe. Some people say it was not an accident. Different facts and evidence show it was a full-scale sabotage against the former USSR, which resulted in collapse of the world superpower. <br><br>"The Chernobyl power plant was blown up by a foreign agent! Department of Nuclear Energy, Science Academy with its research and design institutes were not ready for such an unexpected disaster. Chernobyl nuclear holocaust was not an accident. Nuclear reactors have high level of reliability proved by a number of tests. Water pumps of primary and back-up cooling systems could not have been simultaneously disabled. The picture of blown up reactor was taken too opportunely by the U.S. satellite that was "accidentally" on the proper orbit above the 4th block at that very time. Logically analyzed facts and developments of "cold war" in 50th show Chernobyl catastrophe was not an accident. That was a full-scale sabotage of the century, which resulted in breakdown of the USSR economic basis and "soviet" socialist system in general. The adversaries of the USSR made an effective use of the negligence and incompetence of the government headed by Gorbachev along with the lack of sufficient control of restricted areas." <br><br>V. Baranov, <br>Former Chief Of Staff Deputy For Special Zone Forces in Chernobyl nuclear power plant area retired colonel ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 09:21:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464634</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/771014"><b>yoyomhz</b></A> : Hey look at this video:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.helpmearoundtheworld.com/elenafilatova/video5.mpeg" >www.helpmearoundtheworld.com/ele&middot;&middot;&middot;eo5.mpeg</A><br><br>The <b>bastards</b> in Ukraine's government knew exactly how dangerous it was, but deliberately lied to the people, and never told the seriousness of it. I wonder if OUR government would also lie to us? No need to wonder. For three weeks after the accident (coincidentally one day before chernobyl 'accident) at Mighty Oaks, Nevada, authorities lied.<br><br>No need to wonder.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/highres/highres.html" >www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddo&middot;&middot;&middot;res.html</A><br> <IMG SRC="http://www.nuclearflower.com/10_10.jpg"> <br>How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, <br>for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? <br><br>&#151; Jeremiah, 12:4 KJV]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 09:16:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20460042</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/578590"><b>Mashiki</b></A> : In a lot of places they don't mine coal by digging underground anymore unless it has to be(under a mountain, avoiding aquifers, etc).  We use open-pit mining, it can get more coal up and out easier and there's less of a chance of people being killed by collapses.  There are still places where we do it underground, many spots this is being switched to automated mining after marking.  <br><br>Personally and this is my opinion I believe that the current brand of reactors will be gone in the next 35-40 years and replaced by PBMR's(Pebble Bed Modular Reactors) since they can use pretty much anything that radiates as fuel when mixed properly, some people don't like those anymore then current reactors however it takes a lot more to go wrong such as the complete rupture of the containment vessel before the graphite pellets will even burn(requires oxygen and removal of inert cooling gases), even then you can't say that it will.  There's no water cooling, if the plant has a complete failure the reactor drops directly into idle mode and you can remove all the fuel manually.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html">The Art of War</a><br>"Excessive law is no law." - Cicero</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:49:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20459598</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Not trying to prove anything. Just Chernobyl raises some valid concerns about nuclear energy. I'm neither pro or anti. I just don't know enough about nuclear to base an opinion either way.<br><br>As far as coal, yeah, I'm a little pro coal as Nova Scotia has a lot of dormant coal mines and we now see how Newfoundland is turning their economy around based on oil.<br><br>I think Nova Scotia could easily do the same with coal & natural gas. Nova Scotia could be researching more into liquifying coal or selling coal to China. If China is going to be burning coal someone has to sell it to them. Why not Nova Scotia? <br><br>We tire of handouts from Ottawa...<br><br>We have little else in Atlantic Canada.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20459598</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 22:45:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20459127</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Yet most articles I've read claim uranium mining is the most dangerous type of mining... I really don't see how this is relevant to whether a coal fired power plant is more dangerous then a nuclear one?<br> </div>As I pointed out <A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20396908-Chernobyl~start=40"> <u>here</u></a>, we are just beginning to understand the horrific death tolls from the kind of pollution to which coal-fired power plants are the overwhelming contributers.  The assertion that uranium mining is "the most dangerous type" has so far only been supported by flagrantly biased anti-nuclear lobby group fantatics whose sites you've referenced as if it was science -- these are mostly the same groups that believe nuclear power plants will blow up the planet, melt down through the earth's core all the way to China, or kill us all with radiation! :p  The bogus claims about uranium dangers also seem to disregard -- in the same way as the "nuclear waste will be dangerous for a billion zillion years" arguments do -- how little of it is actually needed and how little waste product is actually created.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This thread is not about mining :huh:<br> </div>Please inform us then what this thread <b>IS</b> about; I've been wondering that for quite some time.  The subject matter has been wandering all over the map, mostly following your various erratic postings.  Is there some single salient point that you would like to make, that has not already been addressed here previously?<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20459127</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 20:48:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458992</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Yet most articles I've read claim uranium mining is the most dangerous type of mining... I really don't see how this is relevant to whether a coal fired power plant is more dangerous then a nuclear one?<br><br>This thread is not about mining :huh:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458992</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 20:21:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458412</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>If we must throw coal mining into the mix, then let's consider the risk of death from uranium mining... :huh:<br> </div>Yes we must throw coal mining into the mix, because acquiring coal -- and the consequences of burning it -- are a fundamental part of the lifecycle cost.<br><br>So looking at overall lifecycle costs including the impact of mining operations, a rough estimate is that it takes about 17,000 kilograms of coal to produce the same amount of electricity as 1 kilogram of nuclear uranium fuel, more or less depending on the reactor design.  Breeder reactors and those which consume waste products of other reactors reduce this ratio still further.  There is simply no comparison with nuclear power when it comes to the impact of mining -- apples and oranges indeed.  :p<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458412</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:56:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458198</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Sorry Wolfie...but you are comparing apples to oranges... <br><br>This is not about mining dangers. It's about dangers of   power generating plants. A better comparison would be to compare deaths of workers at coal fired plants vs nuclear  plants...<br><br>If we must throw coal mining into the mix, then let's consider the risk of death from uranium mining... :huh:<br><br>I think it is the nature of mining which is dangerous whether it be a gold, silver, tin, uranium or coal...<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ccnr.org/uranium_deadliest.html" >www.ccnr.org/uranium_deadliest.html</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.uraniumcitizensinquiry.com/" >www.uraniumcitizensinquiry.com/</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.sea-us.org.au/disc-guide/disc-guide-e.html" >www.sea-us.org.au/disc-guide/dis&middot;&middot;&middot;e-e.html</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://torontoist.com/2007/11/uranium_mining.php" >torontoist.com/2007/11/uranium_mining.php</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.indypendent.org/2008/02/27/1504/" >www.indypendent.org/2008/02/27/1504/</A><br><br>One also has to consider the fact uranium ore emits radon gas which probably makes it a little more deady then other underground mining...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458198</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:02:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458188</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/949692"><b>Rifleman</b></A> : I guess the point was how many unknown cases were caused? Genetic defects etc. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20458188</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:00:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20457589</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : So someone got killed in an accident at Chalk River?  That's tragic of course but I have to wonder what sort of point that is supposed to make.<br><br>How does that compare with the 26 killed in the Westray coal mine disaster in Nova Scotia?  How does it compare with the tens of thousands that have been killed in coal mines around the world?  How does it compare with the estimated <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4283295.stm"> <u>310,000 deaths annually from air pollution</u></a> in Europe alone according to a recent study?<br><br>Here is a list of coal mine fatalities in West Virginia alone --  <b>just one state</b>!  You read this as follows:  Date, company, mine, location, nature of accident, and number of victims:<br><br>JAN. 21, 1886 &#9;ORREL COAL COMPANY &#9;MT. BROOK &#9;NEWBURG &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;39<br>NOV. 20, 1894 &#9;BLANCH COAL CO. &#9;BLANCH &#9;STANDARD &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;8<br>MAR. 06, 1900 &#9;RED ASH COAL COMPANY &#9;RED ASH &#9;RED ASH &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;46<br>NOV. 02, 1900 &#9;SOUTHERN COAL & TRANSPORTATION CO. &#9;BERRYBURG &#9;BERRYBURG &#9;POWDER EXPLO. &#9;15<br>MAY  15, 1901 &#9;GEORGE'S CREEK COAL & IRON CO. &#9;CHATHAM &#9;FARMINGTON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;10<br>SEP. 15, 1902 &#9;ALGOMA COAL AND COKE &#9;ALGOMA NO. 7 &#9;ALGOMA &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;17<br>SEP. 22, 1902 &#9;NEW CENTRAL COAL CO. &#9;STAFFORD &#9;STAFFORD &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;6<br>FEB. 26, 1905 &#9;GRAPEVINE COAL CO. &#9;GRAPEVINE &#9;WILCOE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;7<br>MAR. 19, 1905 &#9;NEW RIVER SMOKELESS COAL CO. &#9;RUSHRUN/REDASH &#9;RED ASH &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;24<br>APR. 20, 1905 &#9;CABIN CREEK MINING CO. &#9;CABIN CREEK &#9;KAYFORD &#9;POWDER EXPLO. &#9;6<br>JUL. 05, 1905 &#9;TIDEWATER COAL & COKE CO. &#9;TIDEWATER &#9;VIVIAN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>NOV. 04, 1905 &#9;TIDEWATER COAL & COKE CO. &#9;TIDEWATER &#9;VIVIAN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;7<br>DEC. 04, 1905 &#9;CARDIFF COAL CO. &#9;HORTON &#9;CABIN CREEK &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;7<br>JAN. 04, 1906 &#9;COALDALE COAL & COKE CO. &#9;COALDALE &#9;COALDALE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;22<br>JAN. 18, 1906 &#9;DETROIT & KANAWHA COAL CO. &#9;DETROIT &#9;PAINT CREEK &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;18<br>FEB. 08, 1906 &#9;STUART COLLIERY CO. &#9;PARRAL &#9;PARRAL &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;23<br>MAR. 22, 1906 &#9;CENTURY COAL CO. &#9;CENTURY &#9;CENTURY &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;23<br>DEC. 14, 1906 &#9;PULASKI IRON CO. &#9;PULASKI &#9;ECKMAN &#9;POWDER EXPLO. &#9;6*<br>JAN. 26, 1907 &#9;LORENTZ &#9;LORENTZ &#9;PENCO &#9;POWDER EXPLO. &#9;12<br>JAN. 29, 1907 &#9;STUART COLLIERY CO. &#9;STUART &#9;STUART &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;85<br>FEB. 04, 1907 &#9;DAVIS COAL & COKE CO. &#9;THOMAS &#9;THOMAS &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;25<br>MAY  01, 1907 &#9;WHITE OAK FUEL CO. &#9;WHIPPLE &#9;SCARBRO &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;46<br>DEC. 06, 1907 &#9;FAIRMONT COAL CO. &#9;MONONGAH 6 & 8 &#9;MONONGAH &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;361<br>JAN. 30, 1908 &#9;NEW RIVER VALLEY COAL CO. &#9;BACKMAN &#9;HAWKS NEST &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;9<br>DEC. 29, 1908 &#9;POCAHONTAS COLLERIES CO. &#9;LICK BRANCH &#9;SWITCHBACK &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;50<br>JAN. 12, 1909 &#9;POCAHONTAS COLLERIES CO. &#9;LICK BRANCH &#9;SWITCHBACK &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;67<br>MAR. 31, 1909 &#9;BEURY BROTHERS COAL CO. &#9;ECHO &#9;BEURY &#9;DYNAMITE EXPLO. &#9;16<br>DEC. 31, 1910 &#9;RED JACKET CONS. COAL & COKE CO. &#9;LICK FORK &#9;THACKER &#9;HAULAGE &#9;10<br>APR. 24, 1911 &#9;DAVIS COAL & COKE CO. &#9;OTT NO. 20 &#9;ELK GARDEN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;23<br>AUG. 01, 1911 &#9;STANDARD POCAHONTAS FUEL CO. &#9;STANDARD &#9;CAPLES &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;6<br>NOV. 18, 1911 &#9;BOTTOM CREEK COAL & COKE CO. &#9;BOTTOM CREEK &#9;VIVIAN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;18<br>MAR. 26, 1912 &#9;JED COAL AND COKE CO. &#9;JED &#9;JED &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;80<br>JULY 11, 1912 &#9;BEN FRANKLIN COAL CO. &#9;PANAMA &#9;MOUNDSVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;8<br>APR. 28, 1914 &#9;NEW RIVER COLLIERIES CO., THE &#9;ECCLES NO. 5 & 6 &#9;ECCLES &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;183<br>JUNE 30, 1914 &#9;SYCAMORE COAL CO. &#9;CINDERELLA &#9;CINDERELLA &#9;SUFFOCATION &#9;5<br>FEB.  6, 1915 &#9;NEW RIVER CO. &#9;CARLISLE &#9;CARLISLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;22<br>MAR.  2, 1915 &#9;NEW RIVER & POCAHONTAS CONSOL. CO. &#9;LAYLAND NO. 3 &#9;LAYLAND &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;112<br>MAR. 30, 1915 &#9;HANNA COAL CO. &#9;BOOMER NO. 2 &#9;BOOMER &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;23<br>MAR. 28, 1916 &#9;KING COAL CO. &#9;KING NO. 28 &#9;VIVIAN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;10<br>OCT. 19, 1916 &#9;JAMISON COAL AND COKE CO. &#9;JAMISON NO. 7 &#9;BARRACKVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;10<br>APR. 18, 1917 &#9;HUTCHINSON COAL CO. &#9;LYNDEN &#9;MASON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>DEC. 15, 1917 &#9;YUKON POCAHONTAS COAL CO. &#9;YUKON NO. 1 &#9;SUSANNA &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;18<br>MAY  20, 1918 &#9;MILL CREEK CANNEL MINING CO. &#9;VILLA &#9;CHARLESTON &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;13<br>JULY 18, 1919 &#9;HOUSTON COLLIERIES CO. &#9;CARSWELL &#9;KIMBALL &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;7<br>AUG.  6, 1919 &#9;NEW RIVER AND POCAHONTAS CONSOLIDATED &#9;WEIRWOOD &#9;WEIRWOOD &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;7<br>MAY  22, 1920 &#9;MALLORY COAL CO. &#9;MALLORY NO. 3 &#9;MALLORY &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;5<br>SEPT.23, 1922 &#9;RALEIGH-WYOMING COAL CO. &#9;GLEN ROGERS #2 &#9;GLENROGERS &#9;FALLING CAGE &#9;5<br>MAR.  2, 1923 &#9;WEYANOKE COAL & COKE CO. &#9;ARISTA &#9;ARISTA &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;10<br>NOV. 06, 1923 &#9;RALEIGH-WYOMING COAL CO. &#9;GLEN ROGERS &#9;BECKLEY &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;27<br>MAR. 28, 1924 &#9;YUKON POCAHONTAS COAL CO. &#9;YUKON NO. 2 &#9;YUKON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;24<br>APR. 28, 1924 &#9;WHEELING STEEL CORP. &#9;BENWOOD &#9;BENWOOD &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;119<br>MAR. 17, 1925 &#9;BETHLEHEM MINES CORP. &#9;BARRACKSVILLE &#9;BARRACKSVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;33<br>JAN. 14, 1926 &#9;JAMISON COAL & COKE CO. &#9;JAMISON NO. 8 &#9;FARMINGTON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;19<br>MAR.  8, 1926 &#9;CRAB ORCHARD IMPROVEMENT CO. &#9;ECCLES NO. 5 &#9;ECCLES &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;19<br>NOV. 15, 1926 &#9;GLENDALE GAS COAL CO. &#9;MOUND SHAFT &#9;MOUNDSVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>APR. 30, 1927 &#9;NEW ENGLAND FUEL & TRANS. CO. &#9;FEDERAL NO. 3 &#9;EVERTTVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;97<br>MAY  13, 1927 &#9;CENTRAL POCAHONTAS COAL CO. &#9;SHANNON BR. 3 &#9;CAPELS &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;8<br>APR.  2, 1928 &#9;KEYSTONE COAL AND COKE CO. &#9;KEYSTONE NO. 2 &#9;KEYSTONE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;8<br>MAY  22, 1928 &#9;YUKON POCAHONTAS COAL CO. &#9;YUKON NO. 1 &#9;YUKON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;17<br>JUNE 20, 1928 &#9;NATIONAL FUEL CO. &#9;NO. 1 &#9;NATIONAL &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;7<br>OCT. 22, 1928 &#9;MACALPIN COAL CO. &#9;MCALPIN &#9;MCALPIN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;6<br>NOV. 30, 1928 &#9;PRINCESS POCAHONTAS COAL CORP. &#9;PRINCESS POCAHONTAS &#9;RODERFIELD &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;6<br>JAN. 26, 1929 &#9;KINGSTON POCAHONTAS COAL CO. INC. &#9;KINGSTON NO. 5 &#9;KINGSTON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;14<br>JAN. 19, 1930 &#9;LILLYBROOK COAL CO. &#9;NO. 1 &#9;LILLYBROOK &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;8<br>MAR. 26, 1930 &#9;CROWN COAL CO. &#9;YUKON &#9;ARNETTSVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;12<br>JAN.  6, 1931 &#9;RALEIGH-WYOMING COAL CO. &#9;GLEN ROGERS #2 &#9;GLEN ROGERS &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;8<br>NOV.  3, 1931 &#9;ISLAND CREEK COAL CO. &#9;NO. 20 &#9;WHITMAN &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>MAY  12, 1935 &#9;BETHLEHEM MINES CORP. &#9;NO. 41 &#9;BARRACKVILLE &#9;FIRE IN SHAFT &#9;6<br>SEPT. 2, 1936 &#9;HUTCHINSON COAL CO. &#9;MACBETH &#9;MACBETH &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;10<br>MAR. 11, 1937 &#9;HUTCHINSON COAL CO. &#9;MACBETH &#9;MACBETH &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;18<br>JAN. 10. 1940 &#9;POND CREEK POCAHONTAS COAL CO. &#9;NO. 1 &#9;BARTLEY &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;91<br>DEC. 17, 1940 &#9;RALEIGH COAL & COKE CO. &#9;NO. 4 &#9;RALEIGH &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;9<br>JAN. 22, 1941 &#9;KOPPERS COAL CO. &#9;CARSWELL &#9;CARSWELL &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;6<br>MAY  12, 1942 &#9;CHRISTOPHER COAL CO. &#9;CHRISTOPHER NO. 3 &#9;OSAGE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;56<br>MAY  18, 1942 &#9;HITCHMAN COAL & COKE CO. &#9;HITCHMAN &#9;BENWOOD &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>JULY  9, 1942 &#9;PURSGLOVE COAL MINING CO. &#9;PURSGLOVE NO. 2 &#9;PURSGLOVE &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;20<br>DEC. 15, 1942 &#9;WYATT COAL CO. &#9;LAING NO. 1 &#9;LAING &#9;RUN AWAY TRIP &#9;5<br>JAN.  8, 1943 &#9;PURSGLOVE COAL MINING CO. &#9;PURSGLOVE NO. 15 &#9;PURSGLOVE &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;13<br>NOV.  8, 1943 &#9;AMERICAN ROLLING MILL CO. &#9;NELLIS NO. 3 &#9;NELLIS &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;11<br>MAR. 25, 1944 &#9;KATHRINE COAL MINING CO. &#9;KATHRINE NO. 4 &#9;LUMBERPORT &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;16<br>JAN. 15, 1946 &#9;NEW RIVER AND POCAHONTAS CONS. COAL CO. &#9;HAVACO NO. 9 &#9;HAVACO &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;15<br>AUG.  6, 1948 &#9;NEW RIVER AND POCAHONTAS CONS. COAL CO. &#9;BERWIND NO. 11 &#9;CAPELS &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;6<br>JAN. 18, 1951 &#9;BURNING SPRINGS COLLIERIES CO. &#9;BURNING SPRINGS &#9;KERMIT &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;11<br>OCT. 15, 1951 &#9;TROTTER COAL CO. &#9;BUNKER &#9;CASSVILLE &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;10<br>OCT. 31, 1951 &#9;TRUAX-TRAER COAL CO. &#9;UNITED NO. 1 &#9;WEVACO &#9;DUST EXPLOSION &#9;12<br>NOV. 13, 1954 &#9;JAMISON COAL AND COKE CO. &#9;NO. 9 &#9;FARMINGTON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;16<br>FEB.  4, 1957 &#9;POCAHONTAS FUEL CO. &#9;NO. 35 &#9;BISHOP &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;37<br>DEC.  9, 1957 &#9;RALEIGH-WYOMING COAL CO. &#9;GLEN ROGERS NO.2 &#9;GLEN ROGERS &#9;MOUNTAIN BUMP &#9;5<br>DEC. 27, 1957 &#9;POCAHONTAS FUEL CO. &#9;NO. 31 &#9;AMONATE &#9;EAS EXPLOSION &#9;11<br>FEB. 12, 1958 &#9;AMHERST COAL CO. &#9;LUNDALE &#9;LUNDALE &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;6<br>OCT. 27, 1958 &#9;POCAHONTAS FUEL CO &#9;NO. 35 &#9;BISHOP &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;22<br>OCT. 28, 1958 &#9;OGLEBAY NORTON COAL CO. &#9;BURTON &#9;CRAIGSVILLE &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;14<br>MAR,  8, 1960 &#9;ISLAND CREEK COAL CO. &#9;NO. 22 &#9;HOLDEN &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;18<br>NOV.  9, 1962 &#9;ISLAND CREEK COAL CO. &#9;NO. 28 &#9;VERDUNVILLE &#9;HAULAGE &#9;3<br>APR. 25, 1963 &#9;CLINCHFIELD COAL CO. &#9;COMPASS NO. 2 &#9;DOLA &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;22<br>SEPT.28, 1964 &#9;ISLAND CREEK COAL CO. &#9;NO. 6 &#9;BARTLEY &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;3<br>APR. 30, 1965 &#9;MOUNTAINEER COAL CO. (Division of Consolidation Coals Co.) &#9;CONSOL. NO. 9 &#9;FARMINGTON &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;4<br>MAY,  3, 1965 &#9;DOROTHY COAL CO. &#9;NO. 1 &#9;GARRISON &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;3<br>OCT. 16, 1965 &#9;CLINCHFIELD COAL CO. &#9;MARS NO. 2 &#9;SARDIS &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;7<br>JUL. 23, 1966 &#9;THE NEW RIVER CO. &#9;SILTIX &#9;MOUNT HOPE &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;7<br>SEP. 10, 1966 &#9;THE VALLEY CAMP COAL &#9;NO. 3 &#9;TRIDELPHIA &#9;HAULAGE &#9;4<br>MAY  06, 1968 &#9;GAULEY COAL & COKE CO. &#9;NO. 8 &#9;HOMINY FALLS &#9;MINE INUNDATION &#9;4<br>AUG. 14, 1968 &#9;AMHERST COAL CO. &#9;LUNDALE NO. 1 &#9;LOGAN &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;3<br>NOV. 20, 1968 &#9;MOUNTAINEER COAL CO.(Division of Consolidation Coals Co.) &#9;NO. 9 &#9;FARMINGTON &#9;EXPLOSION &#9;78<br>DEC. 12, 1968 &#9;BUFFALO MINING CO. &#9;NO. 8B &#9;LYBURN &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;3<br>JUN. 11, 1971 &#9;EASTERN ASSOCIATED COAL CORP. &#9;FEDERAL NO. 2 &#9;FAIRVIEW &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;3<br>JUL. 22, 1972 &#9;CONSOLIDATION COAL CO. &#9;BLACKSVILLE &#9;BLACKSVILE &#9;MINE FIRE &#9;9<br>DEC. 16, 1972 &#9;ITMANN COAL CO. &#9;ITMANN NO. 3 &#9;ITMANN &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>OCT. 02, 1974 &#9;COWIN & CO. (CONTRACTORS) &#9;MAPLE MEADOW MINE &#9;FAIRDALE &#9;FALLING MATERIAL &#9;3<br>OCT. 07, 1974 &#9;MONTY BROS. CONST. CO. (CONTRACTOR) &#9;BOLT SEWELL &#9;BOLT &#9;FALL IN SHAFT &#9;3<br>JUN. 05, 1975 &#9;EASTERN ASSOC. COAL CORP. &#9;HARRIS NO. 2 &#9;BALD KNOB &#9;RIB FALL &#9;3<br>NOV. 26, 1975 &#9;BETHLEHEM MINES CORP. &#9;NO. 105 &#9;CENTURY &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;3<br>NOV. 07, 1980 &#9;WESTMORELAND COAL CO. &#9;FERRELL &#9;UNEEDA &#9;GAS EXPLOSION &#9;5<br>DEC. 03, 1981 &#9;ELK RIVER SEWELL COAL CO. &#9;STILL HOUSE NO. 1 &#9;BERGOO &#9;ROOF FALL &#9;3<br>FEB. 06, 1986 &#9;CONSOLIDATION COAL CO. &#9;LOVERIDGE NO. 22 &#9;FAIRVIEW &#9;COAL STOR. ENTRAP. &#9;5<br>MAR. 19, 1992 &#9;CONSOLIDATION COAL  CO. &#9;BLACKSVILLE NO. 1 &#9;WANA &#9;EXPLOSION IN SHAFT &#9;4<br>JAN. 22, 2003 &#9;CENTRAL CAMBRIA DRILLING CO. (CONTRACTOR) &#9;MCELROY MINE &#9;GRAYSVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION IN SHAFT &#9;3<br>JAN. 2, 2006 &#9;ANKER WV MINING CO., INC. &#9;SAGO MINE &#9;TALLMANSVILLE &#9;EXPLOSION AND ENTRAP. &#9;12<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 14:59:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20455522</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/949692"><b>Rifleman</b></A> : This is a great Story of a poor bastard who was a victim of an accident in Chalk River. If I remember correctly the equivalent of 30 pounds of unranium was ejected and blew over Petawawa. <br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ccnr.org/paulson_legacy.html" >www.ccnr.org/paulson_legacy.html</A><br>I got in a big argument on this topic before but this can answer some questions on effects.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ccnr.org/max_plute_aecb.html#1" >www.ccnr.org/max_plute_aecb.html#1</A><br>560 grams<br>  can overdose<br>  four hundred million workers<br>  Great 1 hour slide show-----just click photos for a commentary<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ccnr.org/stockholm-2007/" >www.ccnr.org/stockholm-2007/</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20455522</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 08:33:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20455460</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/771014"><b>yoyomhz</b></A> : A<br><br>FAILED<br><br>NUCLEAR<br><br>TEST <br><br>IN <br><br>NEVADA - <br><br><b>was one day before the Chernobyl accident.</b> It was so bad, radiation was found in cow's milk in Oregon. but they didn't tell us about it. Instead, conincidentally, and luckily for the American government who did the test in Nevada, some workers at Chernobyl broke the rules, and screwed up big time, causing the world's worst nuclear 'accident.' It was lucky because now, all the attention went to Chernobyl, and no one even knew about the failed nuclear test in Nevada. <br><br>It was the 'luckiest' thing that could ever happen, for the USA government, who also, at the time, was concerned with 'bankrupting' the Soviet Union.<br><br>The Mighty Oak (which was the failed nuclear test in Nevada <b>at the same time as Chernobyl</b>) accident, according to James K. Magruder, assistant manager for operations for DOE at NTS, was due to rock beneath Rainier Mesa caving in from the shock of the nuclear blast.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20455460</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 08:06:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20455305</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Sorry Yoyomhz, but I don't know what I'm supposed to read in your link?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20455305</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 06:22:54 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444011</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/771014"><b>yoyomhz</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.shundahai.org/area_peacecamp_nts.htm" >www.shundahai.org/area_peacecamp_nts.htm</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 05:21:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444009</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/771014"><b>yoyomhz</b></A> : The 1986 underground test Mighty Oak leaked and vented into the atmosphere for many days before it was detected by outside monitoring. It took the Energy Department more than three weeks to finally admit the truth.<br><br><b>It took the Energy Department more than three weeks to finally admit the truth.<br></b><br><br>Talk about a LUCKY conicidence, eh? exactly one day after a MAJOR 'ACCIDENT' in Nevada, that spreads radiation all over America, which was found in cow's milk in Oregon, exactly one day after that accident (in Nevada), another major 'accident' happens in Ukraine, and EVERYONE is told about Chernobyl.<br><br>no one is told about the accident at Mighty Oak, Nevada testing site.<br><br><b>Talk about a lucky coincidence, eh?</b>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 05:18:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20435449</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627398"><b>quanta</b></A> : Don't forget a homegrown Canadian solution to cleaner coalburning:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.atlcombustion.com/" >www.atlcombustion.com/</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 16:23:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20435236</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : Hmmm... you have gone from what I thought was a memorial of Chernobyl to a discussion of nuclear energy in general and then to dissing Al Gore and denying the problem of climate change and then to trying to support coal-fired power plants and then to drilling in the ANWR.  Now we seem to be on to the subject of synthetic fuels being tested by the Air Force. <br><br>I no longer have any idea what the point of this thread is :uhh:<br><br>Incidentally, there's a rather critical factor in that last drive-by posting that the referenced article only mentions briefly and doesn't really talk about.  Unless aggressive, costly, and unproven large-scale carbon capture and sequestration techniques are used in the manufacture of coal-derived synthetic fuels, and unless the coal source is supplemented with significant amounts of biomass, these fuels have around <b>twice</b> the lifecycle CO2 emissions of oil-derived fuels. This is not only pretty futile in the context of the climate change problem, it actually makes them illegal for use by federal agencies under Section 526 of the 2007 energy bill which prohibits fuels with greater lifecycle CO2 emissions than conventional ones.  This is not to say that coal-derived fuels may not have some long-term potential, especially for aviation use, with appropriate technological development.  But just because the Air Force is experimenting with something doesn't automatically make it the answer to everything.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20080130112607.pdf"" >oversight.house.gov/documents/20&middot;&middot;&middot;607.pdf"</A> [PDF document]<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 15:48:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20434766</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Looks like the US Air Force is looking to fuel jets with liquefied coal...<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/244/story/31943.html" >www.mcclatchydc.com/244/story/31943.html</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 14:11:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20430420</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : I don't think China would take kindly to any tariffs or ban on trade. We tried that with Japan in the early 1940's and look what happened.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20430420</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 15:03:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428325</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  digitalfutur <A HREF="/useremail/u/172669"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>So they'll replace Nanticoke (already delayed 3 times), with a natural gas plant twice as large that emits half the CO2 of coal when burned.<br> </div>No, that's not the plan.  The plan is to replace it with a mix of different power sources -- nuclear, hydro, solar, natural gas, and wind.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  digitalfutur <A HREF="/useremail/u/172669"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>BTW how is #1 CO2 emitter China going to be convinced not to bring one coal-fired plant online <i>every 2 weeks</i> as it's doing now?<br> </div>China is the perpetual boogeyman in these discussions. China is this crazy anomaly of a backward nation with around one fifth of the population of the entire planet that has the same level of enlightenment as the Neanderthals, only with much more technology and destructive power. If their products are boycotted or tariffed until they understand that they also share this same planet with us and the same responsibilities towards it, then it wouldn't be a problem.  But that's a matter of public policy and political will.  And those things begin at home -- with our immediate environment and our local policies.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 23:02:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427537</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/172669"><b>digitalfutur</b></A> : So they'll replace Nanticoke (already delayed 3 times), with a natural gas plant twice as large that emits half the CO2 of coal when burned.<br><br>BTW how is #1 CO2 emitter China going to be convinced not to bring one coal-fired plant online <i>every 2 weeks</i> as it's doing now?<br><br>It's total global CO2 emissions that count, not where it comes from. <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>The increase in global-warming gases from China's coal use will probably exceed that for all industrialized countries combined over the next 25 years, surpassing by five times the reduction in such emissions that the Kyoto Protocol seeks.<hr></blockquote><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11chinacoal.html?ex=1307678400en=e9ac1f6255a24fd8ei=5088partner=rssnytemc=rss&pagewanted=all" >www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/busin&middot;&middot;&middot;nted=all</A><br><small>--<br>All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.  "Walk the Talk".</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 19:52:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427211</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Well...like Al Gore he is very knowledgeable and well educated... He used to write speeches about the economy for US Presidents.<br><br>Stein point was instead of giving money to countries for oil, the US should be developing ANWR and investing in domestic coal (liquifying coal, clean coat technologies, more oil from Canada). Wouldn't this be better then depending on the Middle East for oil?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427211</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 18:28:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426643</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : Don't get me started on ANWR!<br><br>Ben Stein is an interesting guy with some spectacularly stupid views on a lot of issues (he seriously doesn't believe in evolution and has been a loud and outspoken supporter of "Intelligent Design").  How anyone believes that ANWR is going to solve either the environmental or the supply problems of oil is hard to fathom.  The amount of technically and economically recoverable oil in the ANWR within about a 95% probability is only about 4.3 billion barrels. The chances of recovering more drop dramatically, and reaches close to zero probability at a max of about 12 billion barrels. The United States consumes around 20.7 million barrels per day. Not per year. Per day. The entire recoverable ANWR reserves would provide a tiny fraction of that for a limited time; as a sole source of supply the 95% confidence level reserves wouldn't last 7 months.   Meanwhile it would rape our planet by destroying forever one of the most important and irreplaceable wildlife refuges in the world, wreak havoc with the ecosystem and drive endangered species into extinction.<br><br>The pressure to drill in ANWR comes entirely from the oil lobby.  4.7 billion barrels may not be a big supply by world standards, but it does represent more than $540 billion even at current prices, and that's enough to make many an industrialist dispense with his ethics and willing to invade, trample, and destroy almost anything to get at it.<br><br>EDIT: typo.  Incidentally, as for Stein's "Expelled..." film, here's an open letter from Richard Dawkins; when one of the world's leading evolutionary biologists refers to Stein's film as "lying propaganda", it makes you realize Stein is something much more (or should I say, much worse) than your everyday neo-con bigot!<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://richarddawkins.net/article,2488,Open-Letter-to-a-victim-of-Ben-Steins-lying-propaganda,Richard-Dawkins" >richarddawkins.net/article,2488,&middot;&middot;&middot;-Dawkins</A><br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 16:07:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426495</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Not sure if you watched Glen Back last night but Ben Stein was Beck's guest. Stein believes the US could get off it's dependency on foreign oil very easily. His solution would be to drill AWNR (Alaska Wildlife National Rserve) and use domestic coal. However he believes no US politicians have the will to do so.<br><br>He also doesn't believe in bio-fuels as growing plants for fuel and not food is not a good idea.<br><br>Stein has a new documentary out "Expelled"...<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.expelledthemovie.com/" >www.expelledthemovie.com/</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 15:30:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426150</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : Yes, whenever I want an objective view of the facts, untainted by vested interests, I always say you can do no better than to get the opinions of an industry lobby group.  :D<br><br>There is so much wrong with most of the "clean coal" arguments that I don't even know where to begin.<br><br>There is no such thing as "clean coal", they mean <b>cleaner</b>, not clean, and whether it's cleaner coal itself or derivative fuels, saying something is "cleaner" than the dirtiest fuel on earth is not saying much!<br><br>In many cases it just means SO2 scrubbers and/or NOx burners that do nothing about the vast amounts of greenhouse gases emitted and little or nothing about heavy metals like mercury and other toxins.<br><br>Where GHG's are addressed at all, the arguments conveniently fail to address the high costs and unproven technology of large-scale carbon sequestration.  It fails to address the impact of coal mining operations and transportation on global warming and the environment.  In the eastern United States, almost 500 mountains have been totally levelled in coal strip-mining operations, in the process of which close to a million acres of forest and an estimated 1600 kilometres of waterways have been destroyed in the last 20 years alone.  None of this sounds environmentally friendly to me.  :p<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426150</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 14:07:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425208</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : I thought some countries were looking to coal as there are newer technologies that allow for the burning of coal much more cleaner?<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.americaspower.org/" >www.americaspower.org/</A><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cleancoalfuels.com/" >www.cleancoalfuels.com/</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 09:34:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20418189</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/328901"><b>Snickerdo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Thane_Bitter <A HREF="/useremail/u/1143582"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Do they 'yo-yo' the core output throughout the day, keep the core at a steady power level and reject the excess energy (heat) into the lake, or a mix a both?</div>They can and do yo-yo throughout the day.  The location of the control rods determines how much power the plant generates.  The "response" is the same as a hydroelectric plant.<br><small>--<br>I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 20:07:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20418099</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1143582"><b>Thane_Bitter</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  MacGyver <A HREF="/useremail/u/495821"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Here's a Toronto Star story on the Nanticoke Coal-Fired Power <br> </div>Interesting story MacGyver; Nanticoke is such an ugly thing, both aesthetically and environmentally.<br><br>This coal plant near Moscow Ohio looks like the atmospheric processor from the film "Alien", just keep zooming in on the smoke, the plant is there, under the haze.  Ironically, when Ontario imports power, this is one of the many US coal plants that provides it. Even if the Nanticoke & Lampton coal plants were shut down, Ontario would still be using coal power.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.866444,-84.234924&spn=0.255553,0.464172&t=k&z=11" >maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF&middot;&middot;&middot;t=k&z=11</A><br><br><blockquote>"It can ramp up its output by 11,000 kilowatts a minute &#150; almost 15 times the electricity generated by the CNE wind turbine. In four hours, it can go from idle to full throttle." <i>Toronto Star</i></blockquote><br><br>This is the part I find interesting.  Power demand is quite variable throughout the day, I think we have all seen the demand and price graphs from the grid operator.  Hydroelectric plants can respond to increased demand quite rapidly, and coal slightly slower, but how responsive is a nuclear power plant?  Do they 'yo-yo' the core output throughout the day, keep the core at a steady power level and reject the excess energy (heat) into the lake, or a mix a both?<br><small>--<br>...A bitter ray of sunshine</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 19:45:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20418096</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I guess it's OK for Ontario to have a coal fired power plant then but not Nova Scotia? :huh:<br> </div>From the article:<br><blockquote><br>Today, Nanticoke would never be built. But, in the late '60s, few had heard of acid rain or global warming.<br><br>"Nobody really wants coal-fired plants any more," says Thomas Reynolds, the former Ontario Hydro employee who picked the location for Nanticoke.<br><br>That's why the province plans to shut down Nanticoke, and replace it with emission-free nuclear power, natural gas &#150; which releases half the carbon dioxide of coal when burned &#150; and clean renewables like wind and solar. Negotiating contracts with Quebec to import some of its abundant hydro power is also on the table.<br></blockquote><br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 19:44:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20417892</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : I guess it's OK for Ontario to have a coal fired power plant then but not Nova Scotia? :huh:]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 18:52:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20417824</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : Thanks for the link.  That's a great article.<br><br>This quote that caught my attention:<br><br>"Nanticoke is the province's largest single emitter of nitrogen oxide and has the second highest emissions of sulphur dioxide - the grim twins of acid rain and smog. Every year, it also pumps out 17.6 million tonnes of greenhouse gases, known to cause global warming."<br><br>Here's an interesting thought exercise -- (if I did my arithmetic right!) -- and assumes a sea-level mass for GHG's the same as air.  Imagine a stretch of road 2,450 metres long -- almost two and a half kilometres.  <br><br>Now try to imagine a huge rectangular tower that is that long on each side -- two and a half kilometres --  this is like no building on earth -- it covers almost six and a quarter square kilometres of land area -- the size of a modest city's entire downtown core.  Now imagine this thing is 582 stories tall, rising two and a half kilometres straight up into the clouds.  Now imagine this entire gargantuan structure filled up completely with CO2, methane, nitrous oxide, and assorted other GHG's, many of them toxic, at normal sea-level pressure.  Now imagine that every year, this box is opened and all the crap spews out into our air.<br><br>That's Nanticoke.<br><br>As the Apollo astronauts so vividly realized, our planet is not really all that big.<br><br>[att=1]<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/20417824?c=1303094&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMDM5NjkwOC54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="45976 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=480 SRC="/r0/download/1303094.thumb600~e06d061a77a7bde916b8a91163029d41/Untitled-1.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 18:34:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20417191</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/495821"><b>MacGyver</b></A> : Here's a Toronto Star story on the Nanticoke Coal-Fired Power &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/EarthHour/article/299725" >www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/&middot;&middot;&middot;e/299725</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 15:53:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20415636</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : For the record, the article in Nature being discussed in that thread doesn't say what you think it does and it is certainly not an expression of "skepticism about global warming".<br><br>The research suggests the possibility that decadal oscillations caused by ocean current cycles may temporarily slow the rate of temperature increase in the next ten years.  Which simply means that the suppressed temperature increases will bounce back more strongly in the decade after, when those same factors become additive instead of subtractive.<br><br>One of the report's co-authors was quoted as saying "We thought a lot about the way to present this because we don't want it to be turned around in the wrong way --I hope it doesn't become a message of Exxon Mobil and other skeptics."<br><br>More from the original authors:<br><blockquote><br>"Just to make things clear: we are not stating that anthropogenic climate change won't be as bad as previously thought", explains Prof. Mojib Latif from IFM-GEOMAR. "What we are saying is that on top of the warming trend there is a long-periodic oscillation that will probably lead to a to a lower temperature increase than we would expect from the current trend during the next years", adds Latif. "That is like driving from the coast to a mountainous area and crossing some hills and valleys before you reach the top", explains Dr. Johann Jungclaus from the MPI for Meteorology.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ifm-geomar.de/index.php?id=4192&L=1" >www.ifm-geomar.de/index.php?id=4192&L=1</A><br></blockquote><br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 10:46:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20415046</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Sorry Wolfie00. I respect your opinion. I really do. I did not start this debate to discuss climate change, but there does seem to be growing skepticism on global warming evidenced by this thread here at DSLReports....<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r20414425-Dont-feel-guilty-about-driving-that-SUV-anymore">Don't feel guilty about driving that SUV anymore!</A><br><br>It appears that many in my generation will equate nuclear power with events like Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. Whether or not the concern is warranted I'll leave that to people who know nuclear energy better then I.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:14:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20412115</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : Seems more than a little short-sighted (i.e.-"stupid") to invest in transforming oil-fired plants into something worse! NS did it once and look where it got them.  First of all it no longer achieves "energy independence" since NS Power doesn't use local coal any more -- ironically, most of it is bought on the international market just like oil.  And <A HREF="http://www.safecleanup.com/jag/h032105.htm"> <u> their pollution track record</u></a> is horrific!  The Lingan plant is the second-worst sulphur dioxide polluter in all of Canada, and unless they have the bulk of their planned new pollution control equipment in place, this one plant alone is responsible for nearly half of the province's total air pollution!  And you want more of this?  :o<br><br>You can look to Ontario, which is <A HREF="http://www.ontariotenants.ca/electricity/articles/2005/cp-05d28.phtml"> <u>working to phase out</u></a> coal-fired plants entirely, to see the trend today.  Even though much of the latest phase-out plan was delayed by politics, the Lakeview power station -- at one time the largest coal-fired power plant in the world I believe -- <A HREF="http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_1080.aspx"> <u>was shut down in 2005</u></a>, the gigantic smokestacks were demolished the next year, and the rest of it torn down the year after.  The others will be shut down in due course.  This is what we should be doing to coal-fired power plants, not building new ones! <br><br>A study in 2000 by the Clean Air Task Force in Boston showed that particulate emissions from coal-fired plants killed more Americans every year than murderers or drunk drivers.  The study says that the highest per capita death impacts are in "coal country" -- states like Kentucky, West Virginia and Alabama, where dirty sulphur-rich coal is burned in power plants.<br><br>I'll take clean efficient nuclear power any day!<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:03:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411307</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Sorry... I said North American coal as a viable alternative to Middle Eastern or South American oil, using the revenues from coal to invest into alternative energy research.<br><br>Living in Halifax, the bulk of our power generating is fueled by oil from Venezuela. Why not purchase the coal instead from  Nova Scotia?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:39:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411086</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  P Ness <A HREF="/useremail/u/463293"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Perhaps coal isn't a bad solution when you consider the risk of nuclear?<br> </div>one accident causing death in what 60 years and you call that a serious risk?<br><br>do you know how many people die in refinery deaths?<br>do you know how many miners die in coal mines?<br>do you know how many people die on oil rigs?<br>do you know how many people die from polution caused by oil and oil products.<br><br>i would bet more then 10x this accident.<br> </div>I had missed that little bit of wisdom about coal being such a great solution compared to the "risk" of nuclear!  :D<br><br>Here's some numerical data related to air pollution alone. That doesn't even touch on the death and destruction caused by an increasingly volatile climate; for example, while individual events like Katrina can never be positively linked to global warming, there is growing and increasingly strong evidence that warmer air and ocean temperatures are contributing to hurricanes that are more intense and longer-lived.  Add in the factors of abrupt climate changes like drought, flooding, or unusual heat or cold, and consequent widespread crop failures, and a disaster like Chernobyl begins to look like a picnic in the park compared to the catastrophes that can be wrought by pollution and climate change. <br><br><blockquote><br>Power plants are a major source of air pollution, with coal-fired power plants spewing 59% of total U.S. sulfur dioxide pollution and 18% of total nitrogen oxides every year.   Coal-fired power plants are also the largest polluter of toxic mercury pollution5, largest contributor of hazardous air toxics6, and release about 50% of particle pollution.   Additionally, power plants release over 40% of total U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, a prime contributor to global warming.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.sierraclub.org/cleanair/factsheets/power.asp" >www.sierraclub.org/cleanair/fact&middot;&middot;&middot;ower.asp</A><br><br>About 40 percent of deaths worldwide are caused by water, air and soil pollution, concludes a Cornell researcher. Such environmental degradation, coupled with the growth in world population, are major causes behind the rapid increase in human diseases, which the World Health Organization has recently reported. Both factors contribute to the malnourishment and disease susceptibility of 3.7 billion people, he says.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070813162438.htm" >www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20&middot;&middot;&middot;2438.htm</A><br><br>Air pollution is responsible for 310,000 premature deaths in Europe each year, research suggests.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4283295.stm" >news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4283295.stm</A><br><br>Air pollution is a much bigger factor in death from heart disease or stroke than has previously been recognized, according to findings from one of the largest studies ever to examine the issue ... After adjusting for other risk factors for heart disease and stroke, they found that air quality was a strong predictor of heart disease and stroke risks -- and an even stronger predictor of death from heart disease or stroke.<br><br>Fine particulate air pollution -- caused primarily by vehicle exhausts, coal-fired power plants, and other industrial sources -- was the sole type of air pollution associated with increased risk.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20070131/air-pollution-linked-heart-deaths" >www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news&middot;&middot;&middot;t-deaths</A><br><br>Air pollution &#150; mainly from vehicles, industry, and power plants &#150; raises the chances of lung cancer and heart disease in people exposed to it long term, according to a report in the March 6 Journal of the American Medical Association.<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_1_1x_Air_Pollution_Linked_to_Deaths_From_Lung_Cancer.asp" >www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/conte&middot;&middot;&middot;ncer.asp</A><br></blockquote><br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:04:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410583</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/463293"><b>P Ness</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Perhaps coal isn't a bad solution when you consider the risk of nuclear?<br> </div>one accident causing death in what 60 years and you call that a serious risk?<br><br>do you know how many people die in refinery deaths?<br>do you know how many miners die in coal mines?<br>do you know how many people die on oil rigs?<br>do you know how many people die from polution caused by oil and oil products.<br><br>i would bet more then 10x this accident.<br><small>--<br>www.stopfcc.comI do not think the government needs to restrict free speech especially on a device that has an off knob.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:23:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410438</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I agree about the celebs but I trust lawyers and politicians  even less. Most of our problems were created by politicians and I will not simply put any blind trust into what they claim.<br> </div>Interesting and truly bizarre logic.  Gore has not been a "politician" for almost eight years now.  He is a dedicated and respected spokesman for the scientific community on a subject that he deeply believes in and has been involved in for most of his life.<br><br>But hey, why listen to Al Gore.  For your purposes, I suggest you consult with what I imagine are the only people  you trust -- the oil companies.  After all, if you can't trust an oil company, who <b>can</b> you trust?  ;)<br><br>Here we go.<br><br><A HREF="http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/umwelt_naturschutz/bericht-77127.html"> <u>European Oil Companies: 'Climate Change is Corporate Social Responsibility Job No. 1'</u></a> <br><A HREF="http://www.api.org/ehs/climate/new/companiesaddress.cfm"> <u>American Petroleum Institute (API) Members Address Climate Change</u></a> <br><A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112401361.html"> <u>Energy Firms Come to Terms With Climate Change</u></a> <br><A HREF="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18054970/"> <u>Oil giant backs caps on greenhouse gases</u></a> <br><br>Even Exxon Mobil, the last holdout among the skeptics, has had enough.  After a scathing denunciation of some of their tactics by <A HREF="http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=9acba744-802a-23ad-47be-2683985c724e"> <u>two U.S. Senators</u></a> and by <A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/sep/20/oilandpetrol.business"> <u>scientists of the Royal Society</u></a> in Britain, they dropped their infamous funding for climate change denial spinmeisters and have bee doing some serious policy back-pedalling.  They have been funding research on carbon sequestering, solar energy, and climate change issues in general, including a $100 million grant to the Stanford University Global Climate and Energy Project.<br><br>When you're done that reading, you can peruse the several thousand pages of the <A HREF="http://www.ipcc.ch/"> <u>IPCC Fourth Assessment Report, "Climate Change 2007"</u></a> which summarizes the current scientific consensus on the science and on mitigation policies.  Don't worry, every major section is preceded by a simple summary, written in language that's easy to understand.<br><br>If and when you have educated yourself, you will realize that this has nothing to do with Al Gore, although in the process, you may end up with a different opinion of him.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:51:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20408459</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Wolfie00  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>Not to digress here, but it is totally inappropriate to lump Al Gore in with a bunch of uninformed celebrities. Gore has a long and distinguished career of advocating environmental responsibility; he's been doing it for over 30 years, and as Vice President he brought an unprecedented understanding of science issues to government. His work has been recognized by climate scientists around the world, and recently by the Nobel Committee which awarded him the Nobel Prize for Peace for his work on increasing public awareness of climate change.<br><br>You may have your reasons for disagreeing with him, but to lump him in with a bunch of brainless actors and singers with too much time on their hands merely demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of his tremendous achievements over a long and accomplished career.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>I agree about the celebs but I trust lawyers and politicians  even less. Most of our problems were created by politicians and I will not simply put any blind trust into what they claim.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:50:01 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20406290</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : I agree.  And, FWIW, I don't take Al Gore's word (or anybody's word) as gospel.  But anyone who takes the trouble to understand Gore's background will have a good deal of respect for him.  And anyone who understands climate science knows that, as a number of leading climate scientists have said, Gore may sometimes get the details wrong, but his overall assessment, his big-picture arguments, and his basic priorities are right.  Neither Jane Fonda nor Leonardo diCaprio nor any of these other imbeciles have a Nobel Prize or a hope in hell of being considered for one. I'll reiterate what was stated above: if Gore thinks something is important, it probably is.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:39:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20406063</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><b>Hydraglass</b></A> : It's frustrating that one mal-informed misguided celebrity has about the same amount of impact on the general "voting public"'s opinions as about 100 well informed scientists who deal with these things for a living.  In some ways it's not even the famous person's fault - it's the fault of someone else who has thoroughly convinced themselves that "their answer is the right answer" and they create believeable propaganda and then approach said celebrity and asks them to "support their worthwhile cause" - and shows them all of their beautifully crafted highly selective literature... <br><br>Most actors, actresses, singers, and other famous entertainers are not highly educated in the sciences - many have never had any biology, chemistry, or physics other than what was required to get a high school diploma (and remember many of them are taught in "on the set" classes or whatever - so who knows what they were actually taught in the sciences) - so when someone who is claims to be a quasi-expert comes along with their convincing propaganda - well - what do you expect to have happen.<br><br>This is why we can't lump Al Gore in with Jane Fonda - Al Gore is well educated and has a long history of actually learning about these things - he is well informed by scientists just as well as lobbyists and everyone else who can bend his ear - I don't take his word as gospel mind you, but in general if he thinks a topic is important, it probably is.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:04:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20406008</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/953970"><b>wkendhippie</b></A> : dont forget those popular do gooders<br><br>"bono"<br>Bob Geldorf<br>Anjela Joly]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:55:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20405974</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I agree on the Jane Fonda thing. Today we pay too much attention to the opinions of celebrities... Jane Fonda, Al Gore, Paul McCartney, Ted Nugent, Leonardo DiCaprio and many others all seem to believe they know what is best for us. I simply wish they would stop cashing in on their celebrity status to push their opinions onto us :huh:&#9;<br> </div>Not to digress here, but it is totally inappropriate to lump Al Gore in with a bunch of uninformed celebrities.  Gore has a long and distinguished career of advocating environmental responsibility; he's been doing it for over 30 years, and as Vice President he brought an unprecedented understanding of science issues to government.  His work has been recognized by climate scientists around the world, and recently by the Nobel Committee which awarded him the Nobel Prize for Peace for his work on increasing public awareness of climate change.<br><br>You may have your reasons for disagreeing with him, but  to lump him in with a bunch of brainless actors and singers with too much time on their hands merely demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of his tremendous achievements over a long and accomplished career.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:49:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20402755</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> :  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>said by Hydraglass :<br><br>The vast majority of the scare over that event was due to the fact it happened approximately 2 weeks after the Jane Fonda movie "The China Syndrome" was released - scaring everyone about the smallest dangers of nuclear "meltdown". A "Chernobyl" couldn't have happened at TMI - again as that reactor, while not as safe and efficient as a CANDU reactor, still depended on water being present to moderate the neutrons ...<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>I agree on the Jane Fonda thing. Today we pay too much attention to the opinions of celebrities... Jane Fonda, Al Gore, Paul McCartney, Ted Nugent, Leonardo DiCaprio and many others all seem to believe they know what is best for us. I simply wish they would stop cashing in on their celebrity status to push their opinions onto us :huh:&#9;<br><br>Informing Alberta that we are going to develop a national energy pan should be interesting. Wasn't that tried in the past making a certain Alberta premier a legend, resulting in another party being in power for over 20 years (in Alberta)?<br><br>One of the few things Canada has left is oil :huh:]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:26:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20401834</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : "Wind and solar" will sound to a lot of folks like extreme-environmentalist hippie alternatives.  There is in fact an enormous amount of energy to be derived from those sources, and from geothermal sources, but I think most of all from nuclear sources (which, after all, is how the sun manages to put out all that power for billions of years!).<br><br>Which means that in the most practical terms, if we could get our brain-dead politicians <small>(I'm not going to mention McGuinty by name  :D)</small> to close down polluting fossil-fuel fired power plants and build more nuclear plants, then electric energy becomes a much more viable alternative.  There are still technology problems with all-electric cars but if electricity was cheap and plentiful enough, they could be overcome.  <br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:18:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20401626</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/949692"><b>Rifleman</b></A> : To go wind and solar would just require a life style change. Minimal lighting at night or use 12 volt LEDs. Only heating water as needed, cooking with gas etc. Just the whole population changing their present ways would easily cut consumption in half. <br>Either way I will be finding out soon as I will be where there is no power. One fellow I read about runs almost entirelly on solar. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:43:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20401485</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/495821"><b>MacGyver</b></A> : I absolutely agree that we need to do something.  I read in a report recently that our current annual energy consumption represents 1/7500th of the sun's energy hitting the earth.  So there is plenty of energy to be harnessed, and hey we might even reverse global warming if we take that sun energy and store it in hydrogen or something.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:16:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20400890</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  MacGyver <A HREF="/useremail/u/495821"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This article gives a harsh reality of energy use in our world today, almost to the point of being depressing.<br> </div>I really think that does simply underscore the point that urgent action is needed.  What the pie chart in the article is showing is that something like four-fifths of all our energy needs are being met through technology which can be described as follows: "burning stuff".  Now, "burning stuff" may have been OK when we lived in caves and had a lot more body hair and a lot less intelligence than we have now, and in particular, when there were not almost 7 billion of us on the planet, and growing fast.  But "burning stuff" is not just an archaic technology that poisons the planet with toxins, we are now smart enough to know that after a few hundred years of accelerating CO2 emissions, we are also in the process of unwittingly altering our planetary climate in  a very fundamental way.  And the end result will be uncomfortable and costly at the very least -- in money and in loss of life -- and it may be a lot more than that.  And it will certainly lead to the extinction of species and a major shake-up in our quality of life.<br><br>These are not small matters, nor are they quickly or easily solved.  It is at least gratifying to see that even the most backward and intractable of the oil companies now recognize that denying these issues is a breach of scientific ethics and corporate responsibility that will no longer be tolerated.  Like a huge ship trying to change course, we are slowly turning to face these challenges.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:24:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20400783</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><b>Hydraglass</b></A> : Actually I think that makes my point all the more clear. We *MUST* replace the coal and oil in that picture with something else - if it means a new 3 GW nuclear plant a month for the next 30 years well then lets start building... lets start building those windmills... lets start putting solar panels on the roof of every house... lets get geothermal plants built everywhere it's practical... why dawdle and talk about how "impractical" it is - when we know in the next 100 years we'll have to replace fossil fuels with something.. sticking our head in the sand and hoping it'll go away isn't going to fix anything... I wasn't saying "switch overnight" - I was saying lets start switching now while we have the options -- I'm trying to think on a 100 year scale here... my point was based on the 10,000 year lifecycle of nuclear waste - that's far enough off that we can safely ignore it. 100 years is NOT far enough off that we can ignore it.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:03:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20400738</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/495821"><b>MacGyver</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Hydraglass <A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>switch to electric cars, electric heat, electric  everything, and provide the power for that "electric everything" through clean safe nuclear energy, and we just might have a chance to save this planet. Go figure.<br> </div>You've heard of the saying "rain on your parade?"  Well, I'm going to disperse your parade with tear gas and rubber bullets: &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9928068-54.html" >www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9928068-54.html</A><br>This article gives a harsh reality of energy use in our world today, almost to the point of being depressing.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:55:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20400633</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Hydraglass <A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>By the way in case you didn't know all the details, Elena and the "KiddOfSpeed" website are not "100%" true or accurate... it's a combination of artistic licence, creativity, and some reality ... Still, the pictures of the area, the town of Pripyat, and the exclusion zone in general are if not 100% accurate, very close to what is really there and going on.<br> </div>The most poignant stories -- those of the farmers and other simple folks living off the land, who knew of no other life and refused to leave despite the risks -- are absolutely true, however.  And many did indeed perish from radiation sicknesses.<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Hydraglass <A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The vast majority of the scare over that event was due to the fact it happened approximately 2 weeks after the Jane Fonda movie "The China Syndrome" was released - scaring everyone about the smallest dangers of nuclear "meltdown".  A "Chernobyl" couldn't have happened at TMI - again as that reactor, while not as safe and efficient as a CANDU reactor, still depended on water being present to moderate the neutrons ...<br> </div>Not to mention that congenital imbecile Jane Fonda(also known as "Hanoi Jane" for her rather "interesting" politics during the Vietnam era), who starred in "The China Syndrome", used the opportunity to get on her anti-nuclear soapbox.  Edward Teller, the physicist who had worked on the Manhattan Project, was the key developer of the hydrogen bomb and co-founder of the Lawrence Livermore National Labs -- one of the foremost nuclear research facilities in the world -- argued strenously in favour of the safety and efficacy of nuclear power to try to counteract the damage she was doing with a gullible public.  One might think that he knew a little more about the subject than this vapid-brained actress.  Teller suffered a heart attack several months later which he blamed on the stress caused by his altercations with Fonda.  <br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:39:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20400477</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/328901"><b>Snickerdo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Warez_Zealot <A HREF="/useremail/u/1350735"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Building newer ones to re-use the rods will be a costly investment for countries like the US, Canada, Russia etc when they have to build new reactors to replace perfectly operational reactors that can't get a reliable source of fuel.</div>Costly investment?  Every single reactor currently in use in Canada is capable of burning "spent" fuel rods in their existing configuration.  In fact, we've been reprocessing spent American fuel for decades.  Hell, Canadian reactors have the ability to burn plain ol' out-of-the-ground uranium, burning spent fuel-grade Uranium is a bonus compared to natural Uranium.  Breeder reactors aren't new.  The "new" reactors have different cooling and delivery methods, but the concept is the same.<br><small>--<br>I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:15:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20400234</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><b>Hydraglass</b></A> : Here's a great video to watch that helps pay tribute to the disaster that was and will always be Chernobyl:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x33dpr_eine-chronik-schwerwiegender-tage" >www.dailymotion.com/video/x33dpr&middot;&middot;&middot;der-tage</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:34:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399679</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/686640"><b>EUS</b></A> : I never said I had any answers, and I'm not a fan of any current technology we use for energy purposes, but I'm just happy they can start reusing the to date garbage.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:00:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399591</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1350735"><b>Warez_Zealot</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  EUS <A HREF="/useremail/u/686640"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>    :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Warez_Zealot <A HREF="/useremail/u/1350735"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>Well nuclear is soon to be a thing of the past regardless.  Last I read, there is only about 20 years of easily accessible Uranium (mining wise).<br> </div> :</small><br><br>They have next-gen nuclear plants ready to be built that:<br>1) Use half the fuel that is currently needed for the same output<br>2) Use the existing "spent" rods the current plants cannot use anymore<br>The are presently designing the plants that will replace the next-gen plants not yet built. Same scenerio; use the "spent" rods from next-gen plants.<br> </div>Well that doesn't help the old reactors.  Once a steady supply of Uranium is gone, then the old reactors need to go offline.  <br><br>Building newer ones to re-use the rods will be a costly investment for countries like the US, Canada, Russia etc when they have to build new reactors to replace perfectly operational reactors that can't get a reliable source of fuel.<br><br>What I heard is that India is going to be building those new breeder reactors. But to be honest, I think the more reactors built, the faster the recycled rods will be completely used up.. I read an article that it could go from 72 power generating years of avail Uranium down to 12yrs if more countries start building reactors.. Even if you factor in the recycling of used rods, it can't add that much life to fission reactors as a long term power source..<br><br>I wish your reasoning would make it that simple though..]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:44:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399475</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/949692"><b>Rifleman</b></A> : Happy Anniversary. Here'ssomething closer to home to consider. I recommend clicking on the links in the article and check out the leakage. <br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.renc.igs.net/~cmichener/ccrc/CCRCdocs/wastes.html" >www.renc.igs.net/~cmichener/ccrc&middot;&middot;&middot;tes.html</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:24:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399390</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><b>Hydraglass</b></A> : Wormwood is artemisia absinthium - a herbaceous plant that grows in central Europe and is what the "potent" drink Absinthe is made from.  Artemisia is an ancient plant used for millenia for different things, and is part of ancient greek and roman mythos, etc. <br><br>For the biblical reference:<br>Wormwood (Apsinthos in the Greek text) is the "name of the star" in the Book of Revelation (8:11) (kai to onoma tou asteros legetai ho Apsinthos) that John the Evangelist envisions as cast by the angel and falling into the waters, making them undrinkably bitter. Outside the Book of Revelation, there are up to eight further references in the Bible showing that wormwood was a common herb of the area and its awful taste was known, as a drinkable preparation applied for specific reasons.<br><br>The reference to the book I mention - wormwood forest - is a "2 prong" reference:<br>1. - wormwood is a common word in Europe because it's a common plant - and many people thought "Chernobyl" was the Russian word for Wormwood - it's not - Chernobyl actually means mugwort in Ukranian (chornobyl). It's literal translation is "black grass and weeds" - of which there's plenty of growing in the area of the power station.<br>2. - wormwood is considered to be synonymous with "bitter or bad taste" (because of the taste of artemisia absinthium) - and the forests and area in the exclusion zone are now "gone bitter" because of the radiation in the area.<br><br>It doesn't take a lot of reading or research to learn all about these things and dispel much or all of the "mythos" surrounding these disasters - but for some reason people like to pick up something "scary" and just run with it... Yes there have been 2 nuclear incidents resulting in the release of any radiation in the history of nuclear power - one was caused by bad training and "soviet pride" (i.e. we can't do anything wrong! we're the Soviet Union! - just keep going - it'll be ok!) - and the other was caused by poor training and poor documentation as well as a series of "unfortunate incidents" that all added up to create the perfect storm - the results of which - were far from a tragedy.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:07:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399366</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1143582"><b>Thane_Bitter</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Isn't Wormwood mentioned in the bible?<br> </div>Yes. &raquo;<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_%28star%29" >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_%28star%29</A><br><small>--<br>...A bitter ray of sunshine</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:03:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399289</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : Isn't Wormwood mentioned in the bible?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:49:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399212</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><b>Hydraglass</b></A> : By the way in case you didn't know all the details, Elena and the "KiddOfSpeed" website are not "100%" true or accurate... it's a combination of artistic licence, creativity, and some reality.  She has never traveled alone through the exclusion zone, all the pictures were staged on official tours through the exclusion zone, etc - so yes she really was there, yes she really took many of those pictures, but the stories are more than a little "embellished".  Tour guides through the exclusion zone have come forward to tell the story of her and her friends "coming on a tour bringing props with them" and taking pictures as such to make a more interesting story.  Still, the pictures of the area, the town of Pripyat, and the exclusion zone in general are if not 100% accurate, very close to what is really there and going on.<br><br>In general - if you read Wormwood Forest - you'll find the air itself and surrounding areas are now quite low in radiation - the vast majority of lingering radiation lays "just below the surface of the soil" - i.e. buried just under leaves and grass.  Rain and wind have minimized the actual surface radiation, thus why it's safe to tour, walk the streets, and for that matter, if you didn't know - the nuclear power generating station at Chernobyl operated generating electricity until the year 2000 - long after the accident.  Workers were brought daily by rail transport into the exclusion zone and actually worked at the power plant, for 14 years until it was finally decommissioned because of its poor design and outdated safety.  The vast majority of life lost due to the tragedy were the firefighters and cleanup workers who - due to "Soviet Policy" weren't even told that they were building a concrete sarcophagus around radioactive nuclear material - they weren't given protective gear, they were bussed in and just told "you're building a concrete shell around this in a hurry - just because".<br><br>If you would like to learn a little more about Three Mile Island, and the events there in the 1970's read up here:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/3mile-isle.html" >www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-colle&middot;&middot;&middot;sle.html</A><br><br>The vast majority of the scare over that event was due to the fact it happened approximately 2 weeks after the Jane Fonda movie "The China Syndrome" was released - scaring everyone about the smallest dangers of nuclear "meltdown".  A "Chernobyl" couldn't have happened at TMI - again as that reactor, while not as safe and efficient as a CANDU reactor, still depended on water being present to moderate the neutrons (slow them down so they actually cause a chain reaction) - if all the water had boiled off and been gone, the fuel would have just slowly melted into a pile of slag and sat there (the fissionable fuel melts at a few hundred degrees C - without the moderating water, natural decay energy would warm it enough that it would "meltdown" - but it wouldn't and couldn't explode like the graphite reactor at Chernobyl).]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:33:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20399098</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/953970"><b>wkendhippie</b></A> : It's an incredible site that Elena put together. I need to write her one of these days.<br>The pictures and story I see there is so horrific, beyond what I could ever imagine. What all those people must have suffered though my God.<br><br>This one photo seems to show the glow emanating from the reactor, I wonder if thats some radiation effect to the film / CCD of the camera<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/20399098?c=1301834&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMDM5NjkwOC54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="13047 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=422 SRC="/r0/download/1301834.thumb600~3c45f4e045e6845d02b47b8d45fff175/image10.1.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:09:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398951</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/686640"><b>EUS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Warez_Zealot <A HREF="/useremail/u/1350735"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>Well nuclear is soon to be a thing of the past regardless.  Last I read, there is only about 20 years of easily accessible Uranium (mining wise).<br> [/BQUOTE :</small><br><br>They have next-gen nuclear plants ready to be built that:<br>1) Use half the fuel that is currently needed for the same output<br>2) Use the existing "spent" rods the current plants cannot use anymore<br>The are presently designing the plants that will replace the next-gen plants not yet built. Same scenerio; use the "spent" rods from next-gen plants.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:33:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398932</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1350735"><b>Warez_Zealot</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>How about all the stories about 'Three Mile island'? Or was that just media hype... I'm not trying to be a smart arse, I just don't know... <br><br>Or the places Warez_Zealot mentions?<br> </div>lol.. I just realized I typed Long Island.. I meant 3 Mile Island as you correctly put it.  Guess I am really tired 12:30am here.. Or I have Long Island Ice Tea on the mind..]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:26:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398885</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><b>vue666</b></A> : How about all the stories about 'Three Mile island'? Or was that just media hype... I'm not trying to be a smart arse, I just don't know... <br><br>Or the places Warez_Zealot mentions?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:16:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398816</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1172979"><b>Wolfie00</b></A> : Well said,  Hydraglass <A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>.  I was just in the middle of a similar but much less detailed response!<br><br>It would be unfortunate if what I took to be a respectful reflection on Chernobyl degenerated into an uninformed commentary on nuclear technology.  In brief:  Could something like this happen again?  Not here, no.  Have we learned anything?  We already knew how to build safe nuclear power plants.  Might it be better to burn coal instead?  No, spewing million of tons of toxic pollutants into the atmosphere every day, poisoning our air and water and destabilizing the planetary climate is no comparison to a technology where a nuclear fuel bundle not much bigger than a loaf of bread can produce about a thousand megawatt-hours of electricity.<br><br>Chernobyl was due to a catastrophic series of errors that began, first and foremost, with a dangerous reactor design that needed explicit damping to prevent a runaway reaction, which was then followed by outrageously inept management that piled one mistake on top of another.  CANDU and ACR reactors, as an example, are inherently failsafe, and while accidents of all kinds can happen, a Chernobyl type of event  is about as close to impossible as anything can be.<br><small>--<br>"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer<br>"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved"  -- Aaron Katcher<br></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:57:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398750</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/627680"><b>Hydraglass</b></A> : If anyone is really interested in actually learning about Chernobyl, the exclusion zone, the city of Pripyat, the long term changes that have happened, and some of the actual truths, misconceptions, and other interesting things that surround this terrible tragedy and the things that are involved with it, I highly suggest reading the book:<br>Wormwood Forest by Mary Mycio<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11318" >www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11318</A><br><br>If anyone is extremely interested and would like to read sections of the book, PM me, I have a PDF of the entire book available - I first was given the PDF by a friend of mine - I got so intrigued with the story behind it I eventually bought that book, and several other since, studied up on everything dealing with and surrounding the history, etc.  In many ways I'm much less scared or worried about nuclear power and atomic energy after having seen this disaster and what happened leading up to it.  The reality of it was, the workers at this plant went about a procedure that resulted in this tragedy that they never should have even thought about doing in the first place based on the design of that system.  <br><br>Modern nuclear power systems, especially our Canadian CANDU system can't even be forced into doing what they were trying to do on purpose - the reactor, if it overheats, causes the shape and layout of the fuel tubes to change, and with the improper geometry the radioactive chain reaction can no longer take place and the reactor ceases creating energy.<br><br>People worry about the amount of nuclear waste created by these power plants, but if you saw the net resulting waste from an actual active reactor, anyone with any "oh no bad!!!" feelings would seriously have to rethink their ways.  I took 3 tours of 3 different atomic energy facilities, 2 in the US and one in Canada, and I have to say right now, I think it's by far the best power generation option humans have.  The fuel rods in a reactor are in a bundle of tubes, the bundle being about 10cm across and 50cm long (4 inches by 20 inches) - that bundle can create around 1GW-Hr of energy before it is "spent" - so with a little math it's figured out the average large reactor over the course of a year of operation creates about 3 cubic meters of high level radioactive waste - which when reprocessed properly, about 80% can be re-used again, so you have 20% of a 3 cubic meter waste pile that needs disposal - .6 cubic meters - that's a box 3 feet on each side and less than 2 feet high.  That's ALL of the waste - no CO2 emissions, no NO2 emissions, no fly ash, nothing - essentially the waste from a large 3 reactor power plant could be trucked away each year in one transport truck. ONE. Not 5.. not 50.. not 500.. but one.<br><br>The nuclear spent fuel that is waste has to be stored for up to 10,000 years before it becomes inert enough to re-enter the environment.  Well.. lets think about that... based on the amount of waste we have figured out one average reactor creates (.6 cubic meters), in 10,000 years it will make enough waste to not quite fill 3 olympic-sized swimming pools (2500 cubic meters each)... gee... that's sooo much waste for TEN THOUSAND YEARS of clean efficient power... hmmm... take every single nuclear reactor in North America, multiply out how much waste they create, and in 10,000 years you'll have filled an area about 500 meters on each side, 50 meters deep - assuming you kept all the waste in one location.... <br><br>Figuring it's not going to be 10,000 years until we find something better - fusion, geothermal, something new none of us have ever thought of, etc. I can live with a storage of nuclear waste that big for 10,000 years of clean CO2 free power... switch to electric cars, electric heat, electric  everything, and provide the power for that "electric everything" through clean safe nuclear energy, and we just might have a chance to save this planet. Go figure.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:40:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Chernobyl</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20398531</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1350735"><b>Warez_Zealot</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  vue666 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1509933"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>     :</small><br><br>Perhaps coal isn't a bad solution when you consider the risk of nuclear?<br> </div>Well nuclear is soon to be a thing of 