espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·voip.ms
 ·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| Shocking...
Another muni-broadband project coming in over budget with subscription rates that don't meet the requirements to keep the service sustainable.
Telcos and MSOs will chase any opportunity to make a profit; when they run the numbers and decide that it's not viable for them to build out fiber in your town, chances are a government project isn't going to do much better. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... If they succeed in nuking Utopia from existence they will hold it up as the model nationwide that Muni broadband is a failure...
Plus, once it's gone, they'll go back to their regular ways....
This is just like the Communications Act of 1996. "Kill it before it grows."
It ought to be a crime.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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MrMoody
Beleaguered Middle Class
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
| said by KrK  :It ought to be a crime. It is. It's called predatory pricing and violates antitrust laws that haven't been enforced in more than a token way in 20 years.
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The public is a poor business manager. |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... If they succeed in nuking Utopia from existence they will hold it up as the model nationwide that Muni broadband is a failure... Well, in this case I think its the taxpayers who are starting to push back. Remember, there were certain deployment goals that were not met and now they (Utopia) are asking for a lot more money. Thats the major issue with government deployments, when things go sour the citizens have to pony up more cash to fix it. Had this project been launched by a company, then you could bet the planning would have at least been better.
Dont get me wrong, I am all for as much competition as possible. There just comes a point when "I" no longer want to pay for the local government to flush my money down the toilet in order to get a fake competitive landscape. The good thing about private companies (as opposed to muni efforts) is that they are held accountable either by their shareholders or by their profit margins to get things done.
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Весна прибыла |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... But in this situation the incumbents have no real advantage over the socialist broadband program. Private companies have to pay taxes, abide by regulations and deal with all sorts of BS that a government operation is exempt from.
You would think that with the built in competitive advantages that socialist broadband has going for it, it would run circles around private companies, but once again, it continues to fail, and require more taxpayer money to bail out.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to wifi4milez
You would still be paying as a public citizen if a local incumbant was doing the same thing. The difference is you would have no say as the people that you voted in to serve you would be serving their gravy train business associates and handing them incentives left and right to make it happen.
The concept of Utopia is certainly the way to go: 1 network that is wholesaled out to those that want to service the people. Not only should this be done in communities, it should be done in states and it should be done nationwide. There is absolutely no reason we need a "utility" as such being built by everyone that wants to serve the people. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to wifi4milez
It's struggling with several issues, but one of the biggest is the fact the subscriber rate is much lower then expected. It's not like people don't want broadband, what's happening is that the incumbents are offering heavy promo deals and pricing (free install, free equipment, low rates, no contracts, etc) prices that they don't offer in other markets.
They are doing their best to try and kill it. Of course, if it does die, those promo prices will vanish....
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to pnh102
What built in advantages?
With the advantages the COMPETITION has (huge revenues from other business and areas) that they are willing to take huge price cuts just to bury you... that's not a advantage. Utopia needs a bigtime ISP, but the bigboys won't sign on because they are trying to KILL it and want it dead.
The idea of Utopia is well, utopia... but it's going to be murdered in it's infancy... I hope there's serious blowback on the incumbents for this kind of behavior.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to pnh102
Yeah pay taxes , I bet. More like use loop holes to avoid paying taxes.
Comcast's nice new building , which they use the rent as a tax write off. I am really tired of so many loop holes to prevent people from paying.
I want all companies and people to chip into taxes. Not just the people who don't have enough money to find loop holes to prevent them from paying.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | reply to KrK
Comcast and the other incumbents really should allow their market share to be eroded and lose lots of money in that market, right?  |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | reply to MrMoody
Large corporation vs. government doesn't qualify as "predatory", unless we're talking about Godzilla vs. King Kong.
The whole point of competition is more choices and lower prices right? |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | reply to BosstonesOwn
Comcast paid 1.8 billion in taxes last year -- is that enough for you? |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn :Yeah pay taxes , I bet. More like use loop holes to avoid paying taxes. Actually, you're right... I am wrong. No company pays taxes at all. We pay their tax bill as they pass their taxes onto us in the form of higher prices.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to jester121
No. They should sign on the network. It's wholesale... but see that would be FAIR. They don't want FAIR, or competition. They want it ALL. A network that allows competition would mean they have to compete. They don't want that. |
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Bill_In_LA
@bellsouth.net
| reply to pnh102
Throwing around the word "Socialist" does not make it so. This system was approved by the voters. It may work out, it may not. However, broadband in this country is a mess and it's because the private companies control the last mile. We need to lay the damn fiber and let the people to control the last mile and have providers fight for their business. |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by BosstonesOwn :Yeah pay taxes , I bet. More like use loop holes to avoid paying taxes. Actually, you're right... I am wrong. No company pays taxes at all. We pay their tax bill as they pass their taxes onto us in the form of higher prices. That's a bit silly isn't it? By that logic, you don't earn a salary -- you mooch it from the people who give money to your employer. |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | reply to KrK
All your Layer 1 and 2 are belong to us.
- The Government |
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24
| reply to KrK
I don't have fiber or a muni network in my community and I can still get free installs and free equipment from Comcast and low rates and no contracts from at&t. Are they giving me these heavy promos just to kill a network 2000 miles away? Or is it just possible that the free market has worked out to my advantage in some small way? |
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24
| reply to Bill_In_LA
said by Bill_In_LA :
Throwing around the word "Socialist" does not make it so. This system was approved by the voters. And being popular doesn't mean it's not a prime example of socialism. Keep in mind 11 cities just promised nearly 30% of all tax revenue to keep this thing alive. We're splitting hairs between spending tax revenues and only gambling with them. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| reply to jester121
said by jester121 :That's a bit silly isn't it? By that logic, you don't earn a salary -- you mooch it from the people who give money to your employer. The taxes are still charged to the company, but the company simply raises prices to cover the costs of the taxes.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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