 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | The chickens have come home to roost..... There is no such thing as a free ride, and this just proves it. People on these forums have be touting the Utopia network as the model "we" should pay to have rolled out nationwide. Thankfully, this failure occurred on a relatively small, local level. Imagine what would happen to the (economy, security, prosperity, etc.) of this country if this meltdown was happening from coast to coast! Yes, letting businesses handle business tends to be the only way to get things done.
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by wifi4milez:There is no such thing as a free ride, and this just proves it. People on these forums have be touting the Utopia network as the model "we" should pay to have rolled out nationwide. Thankfully, this failure occurred on a relatively small, local level. Imagine what would happen to the (economy, security, prosperity, etc.) of this country if this meltdown was happening from coast to coast! Yes, letting businesses handle business tends to be the only way to get things done. Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business?
Calling UTOPIA a failure is also a bit premature. UTOPIA is doing it right, they are just in what is a bit of a technology backwater area. Only 2 of the cities served by UTOPIA have a population over 100,000 and are vastly spread out.
The fact is, the UTOPIA model should be the Federal Government's broadband plan. Take the last mile out of the hands of the incumbents and let them compete on an even playing field. What you would see happen is the ILECs and MSOs would do exactly what they are doing to UTOPIA, price their competition out of business. Isn't that what the laws against monopolies were created to prevent in the first place? Hard to compete when your product is $49.99 and the competition will offer it for $19.99 ... then bury that it's only for 6 month or a year in the fine print.
Yeah, man, I can't image wasting 100 billion dollars or so on this ... all the jobs it would create, all the telecommuning that would be possible, thus reducing our dependence on oil. Wasting trillions of dollars attacking a country to secure their oil reserves sounds like a much better idea to me. |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| said by Matt:Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business? If you want to compete on price, absolutely. It's the companies that can bundle multiple services to get the best bang-for-the-buck out of the access cabling that will drive the price of Internet access down. Trying to sell Internet access alone will never achieve the level off efficiency of those companies building multi-purpose networks where they can sell multiple services on the wire. |
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 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | reply to wifi4milez
be realistic: Utopia is failing in part because incumbents will do ANYTHING to kill off this model. it is a direct threat to their current business model.
we all know that if Utopia does fail, the steep AT&T and Comcast promotions will be a thing of the past in that area. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to Matt
said by Matt:Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business? Given that all muni efforts (fiber, wireless, etc.) in the US have failed miserably, I would say yes. Furthermore, this is the biggest rollout yet and now they are asking for another $67 million from the taxpayers just to keep their doors open.
said by Matt:Calling UTOPIA a failure is also a bit premature. UTOPIA is doing it right, they are just in what is a bit of a technology backwater area. Only 2 of the cities served by UTOPIA have a population over 100,000 and are vastly spread out. Thats the thing though. Test markets are always small and easier to deploy, thats why they are test markets. If this cant succeed where it is now how on earth will it ever work in an urban environment??
said by Matt:The fact is, the UTOPIA model should be the Federal Government's broadband plan. Take the last mile out of the hands of the incumbents and let them compete on an even playing field. YIKES! So you think meeting just 60% of a deployment goal should be the model for a federal system?? Are you actually implying that a system with a dismal 17% customer acceptance rate should be rolled out nationwide?? You must have some unpublished figures you are reviewing, since nothing about this project has worked since day one.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to morbo
said by morbo:be realistic: Utopia is failing in part because incumbents will do ANYTHING to kill off this model. it is a direct threat to their current business model. Maybe UTOPIA and its ISPs should fight back. Charging each customer $1K upfront to connect isn't the way to compete with somebody who doesn't charge anything. Since some citizens in Utah have no problem floating bonds, why not pay more taxes so that they can provide free internet access via UTOPIA and ride Comcast and Qwest out of town? |
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 jhboricuaExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN | reply to wifi4milez
Re: The chickens have come home to roost..... said by wifi4milez:Given that all muni efforts (fiber, wireless, etc.) in the US have failed miserably... That's your opinion and not a fact.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by jhboricua:said by wifi4milez:Given that all muni efforts (fiber, wireless, etc.) in the US have failed miserably... That's your opinion and not a fact. Its not just my opinion, its also the prevailing message from DSLR (which is shocking). Just check all the news items from the past two years about how every muni effort has fallen flat on its face.
Now, if you happen to know of a municipal system which is actually up and running, I suggest you immediately email Karl as it will surely be front page news for weeks.
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jhboricuaExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN | Seems to me the biggest muni failures reported here so far are the ones given to Earthlink to build out, a private company that miserably failed to deliver what was agreed upon. Care to comment on those?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * |
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morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | reply to openbox9
i agree. they must fight back. |
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MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:said by morbo:be realistic: Utopia is failing in part because incumbents will do ANYTHING to kill off this model. it is a direct threat to their current business model. Maybe UTOPIA and its ISPs should fight back. Charging each customer $1K upfront to connect isn't the way to compete with somebody who doesn't charge anything. Since some citizens in Utah have no problem floating bonds, why not pay more taxes so that they can provide free internet access via UTOPIA and ride Comcast and Qwest out of town? If they are charging customers $1,000 for installation then that right there is why it's failing. Even *I* wouldn't pony up $1000 for installation. |
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MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | reply to espaeth
said by espaeth:said by Matt:Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business? If you want to compete on price, absolutely. It's the companies that can bundle multiple services to get the best bang-for-the-buck out of the access cabling that will drive the price of Internet access down. Trying to sell Internet access alone will never achieve the level off efficiency of those companies building multi-purpose networks where they can sell multiple services on the wire. Exactly my point. Take the last mile off the incumbents hands and make it transport agnostic. Let whomever offer whatever they want over it, just like mstar does over UTOPIA. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to jhboricua
said by jhboricua:Seems to me the biggest muni failures reported here so far are the ones given to Earthlink to build out, a private company that miserably failed to deliver what was agreed upon. Care to comment on those? Firstly, Earthlink wasnt/isnt the best suited company to build a network of that scale. Secondly, they were simply contracted by the given cities to do work; it wasnt their own initiative and plan. Rolling out your own network on your own dime is considerably different than being contracted to do so on the government payroll.
Here is an (admittedly bad) analogy to think about. A very wealthy person could hire the worlds best juggler to come perform at a party. However, he then asks the juggler to do bicycle tricks instead of juggle. While the performer did know how to ride a bike, it wasnt his strength and not what he was trained to do. Given that he was getting paid and given specific directions, the juggler decided to simply ride the bike around in circles the whole time. The party guests were unhappy because the show wasnt good, but the juggler didnt care since he was getting paid anyway.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to Matt
Right out of The Salt Lake Tribune referenced article... Utopia's board of directors is developing a new business model it hopes finally will place the struggling, municipally owned network onto a solid financial footing. As part of that plan, it wants to require each new customer to pay a hefty fee upfront. "We've identified a range of around $1,000, but eventually it could be two to three times that amount," said Utopia's chairman Alex Jensen. What I find more humorous is that people around here aren't making any "redlining" allegations against UTOPIA.* Revamp its network build out plans to favor those neighborhoods and communities where large percentages of residents have committed to sign up for services once the network arrives. |
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MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by openbox9:Right out of The Salt Lake Tribune referenced article... Utopia's board of directors is developing a new business model it hopes finally will place the struggling, municipally owned network onto a solid financial footing. As part of that plan, it wants to require each new customer to pay a hefty fee upfront. "We've identified a range of around $1,000, but eventually it could be two to three times that amount," said Utopia's chairman Alex Jensen. What I find more humorous is that people around here aren't making any "redlining" allegations against UTOPIA. * Revamp its network build out plans to favor those neighborhoods and communities where large percentages of residents have committed to sign up for services once the network arrives. Oh, well then they aren't charging customer's anything now, so that's not the reason for the low adoption rate. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:Right out of The Salt Lake Tribune referenced article... Utopia's board of directors is developing a new business model it hopes finally will place the struggling, municipally owned network onto a solid financial footing. As part of that plan, it wants to require each new customer to pay a hefty fee upfront. "We've identified a range of around $1,000, but eventually it could be two to three times that amount," said Utopia's chairman Alex Jensen. What I find more humorous is that people around here aren't making any "redlining" allegations against UTOPIA. * Revamp its network build out plans to favor those neighborhoods and communities where large percentages of residents have committed to sign up for services once the network arrives. I read about that too. They are certainly going out on a limb asking people who arent yet customers to pay up to $3000 each just for the option of purchasing telecom services. The sad part is that assuming they do raise the cash that way, all that does is prevent them from closing and being liquidated. That money just keeps the doors open for another fiscal year.......
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to Matt
I was referring to UTOPIA's lack of a plan to compete in the market. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to wifi4milez
And this potential upfront cost to keep the lights on doesn't include the taxes that the citizens have already committed to paying to get UTOPIA started. |
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wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by openbox9:And this potential upfront cost to keep the lights on doesn't include the taxes that the citizens have already committed to paying to get UTOPIA started. Those taxes they paid werent just to get Utopia started, they were supposed to get it to the point of self sustainability!
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