 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to KrK
Re: Shocking... said by KrK:Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... But in this situation the incumbents have no real advantage over the socialist broadband program. Private companies have to pay taxes, abide by regulations and deal with all sorts of BS that a government operation is exempt from.
You would think that with the built in competitive advantages that socialist broadband has going for it, it would run circles around private companies, but once again, it continues to fail, and require more taxpayer money to bail out.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| What built in advantages?
With the advantages the COMPETITION has (huge revenues from other business and areas) that they are willing to take huge price cuts just to bury you... that's not a advantage. Utopia needs a bigtime ISP, but the bigboys won't sign on because they are trying to KILL it and want it dead.
The idea of Utopia is well, utopia... but it's going to be murdered in it's infancy... I hope there's serious blowback on the incumbents for this kind of behavior.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| reply to pnh102
Yeah pay taxes , I bet. More like use loop holes to avoid paying taxes.
Comcast's nice new building , which they use the rent as a tax write off. I am really tired of so many loop holes to prevent people from paying.
I want all companies and people to chip into taxes. Not just the people who don't have enough money to find loop holes to prevent them from paying.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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| reply to pnh102
Throwing around the word "Socialist" does not make it so. This system was approved by the voters. It may work out, it may not. However, broadband in this country is a mess and it's because the private companies control the last mile. We need to lay the damn fiber and let the people to control the last mile and have providers fight for their business. |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | reply to BosstonesOwn
Comcast paid 1.8 billion in taxes last year -- is that enough for you? |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn:Yeah pay taxes , I bet. More like use loop holes to avoid paying taxes. Actually, you're right... I am wrong. No company pays taxes at all. We pay their tax bill as they pass their taxes onto us in the form of higher prices.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
| said by pnh102:said by BosstonesOwn:Yeah pay taxes , I bet. More like use loop holes to avoid paying taxes. Actually, you're right... I am wrong. No company pays taxes at all. We pay their tax bill as they pass their taxes onto us in the form of higher prices. That's a bit silly isn't it? By that logic, you don't earn a salary -- you mooch it from the people who give money to your employer.  |
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| reply to Bill_In_LA
said by Bill_In_LA :
Throwing around the word "Socialist" does not make it so. This system was approved by the voters. And being popular doesn't mean it's not a prime example of socialism. Keep in mind 11 cities just promised nearly 30% of all tax revenue to keep this thing alive. We're splitting hairs between spending tax revenues and only gambling with them. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to jester121
said by jester121:That's a bit silly isn't it? By that logic, you don't earn a salary -- you mooch it from the people who give money to your employer. The taxes are still charged to the company, but the company simply raises prices to cover the costs of the taxes.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to Bill_In_LA
said by Bill_In_LA :
Throwing around the word "Socialist" does not make it so. Of course not. However, that does not change the fact the system is socialist. Government-provided broadband is comperable to the old state-run industries of the USSR. The USSR would pour tons of resources into its state-owned industries to keep them running and we described that as socialist. If government here is pouring tons of resources into UTOPIA, which is government owned, how is it any different?
said by Bill_In_LA :
This system was approved by the voters. That just means a majority of voters are either dumb or do not pay taxes.
said by Bill_In_LA :
It may work out, it may not. It hasn't. It will simply drain more money from the taxpayers.
said by Bill_In_LA :
However, broadband in this country is a mess and it's because the private companies control the last mile. Whenever private companies do invest in fiber and other next generation technologies, the same people here who whine about us being "so far behind" are the first to whine that these innovators are somehow "skirting the rules."
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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| reply to pnh102
Exactly my point 
Shame folks people don't understand it some times. |
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jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL Reviews:
·voip.ms
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by jester121:That's a bit silly isn't it? By that logic, you don't earn a salary -- you mooch it from the people who give money to your employer. The taxes are still charged to the company, but the company simply raises prices to cover the costs of the taxes. That's because it's illegal for companies to print money on their own.
What's your point? They have to charge enough money to pay expenses, including taxes, salaries, rent, utilities, etc. The money comes from customers who choose to buy the product. |
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by KrK:Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... But in this situation the incumbents have no real advantage over the socialist broadband program. Private companies have to pay taxes, abide by regulations and deal with all sorts of BS that a government operation is exempt from. They have one major advantage.
Utopia is barred from advertising.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:If government here is pouring tons of resources into UTOPIA, which is government owned, how is it any different? In Communist USSR, the people didn't have a say or choice. Here, it's a democracy, and the public do get to vote on and approve the bonds and get to vote on and remove or leave in place the administrators. The people in the USSR had no such choice.
So, it maybe Government run, but it's democratically elected.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by KrK:In Communist USSR, the people didn't have a say or choice. I am not comparing the differences in political freedom between the USSR and the USA. That aside, it is still 100% true that the old USSR would pour significant resources into keeping afloat inefficient and poorly managed state-owned industries. UTOPIA runs on exactly the same model.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to marigolds
said by marigolds:They have one major advantage. Utopia is barred from advertising. Not having to spend money on advertising should lower the cost of UTOPIA then.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to pnh102
I disagree. Utopia is actually an ideal system, and holds great promise in not only saving the communities money long term, but providing future services at affordable rates by 3rd parties. If it is ever allowed to reach fruition it will allow true competition to bridge the last mile.
If it achieves nothing else, at least it forced the incumbents to build out when they had been dragging their feet. Part of the reason Utopia came to exist is because the incumbents there weren't in any hurry to bring broadband to the area.
They sure got in a great big hurry though once they started to do it for themselves.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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| reply to pnh102
Without advertising very few people know of the service. Barring the ad's the incumbents take out in the paper there is very little knowledge of Utopia. Combined with Qwest and Comcast's predatory pricing (show me anywhere in the country, heck anywhere in Utah where they offer the same prices they offer in Utopia service areas. Last I saw they were offering their full silver Cable package for $25 a month in Utopia service areas and you could tack in phone and internet (10mbit) for under $50 total. That's predatory, in fact it's probably below cost. Their goal is to kill Utopia then the prices go up, just like the rest of Utah to 10 times the prices offered in the Utopia service areas. |
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 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by rahvin112:Without advertising very few people know of the service. Barring the ad's the incumbents take out in the paper there is very little knowledge of Utopia. But thats the whole point, Utopia is a network NOT an end user service provider. The onus of advertising falls on MStar, ATT, and XMission who provide service over the Utopia network. I really think people are having a hard time getting their hands around this idea.
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Advertising would help though; although not in the normal sense. Utopia would benefit heavily from commission style advertising designed to promote the system as a whole and benefit all of the ISPs as a group (think along the lines of the "Got Milk?" campaigns). |
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