slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA
edit:
April 29th, @08:45PM
|  ATT Upgrade Disconnects
I upgraded last week from Express to Pro. The speed is good, but I am getting disconnects 2-4 times a day; hardly ever had them b4.
Modem: Westel Wirespeed, Router: Linksys BEFSR41 (name and password in router). Turning the modem off and back on seems to always reconnect! Everything worked fine for years b4 the upgrade. |
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tonydi
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-11
San Jose, CA
| Without a more modern modem that can give us line stats we'd just be tossing darts. Any chance you could borrow a modem from a friend or neighbor and grab some stats? We've seen a number of people in the forum lately who have been allowed to upgrade even though their line was too marginal to handle the increase. |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA
| No local modems that I know of that I can borrow (most are with Comcast)! Way back whe I first signed up with good old PacBell the install tech said the line was really good and I got around 2200 before SBC/YAHOO/ATT came along and caped it at 1500 (then I dropped to getting 1200). If I need a new modem maybe they'd like to give me one! Come on, people, I used to get real help on this board, not the company line! |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to slellis
You got a helpful suggestion already! That wasn't the company line.
Here's another helpful suggestion. If your modem doesn't give line stats, then get one that does. Otherwise you are totally dependant on AT&T for all your line stat readings and diagnostics. No one can diagnose anything without readings. Your loop may be too long, but it is pointless to guess without data.
So start a Trouble thread in AT&T Direct: »/forum/sbcdirect and ask the techs there why your loop has problems. They will tell you why, but you may consider it another company line. |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA | Where have all the real geeks gone... I can switch to another service and get a free modem! I can call ATT and sit through their levels of "tech help" until I get to someone really helpful! Why didn't I think of these things? |
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tonydi
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-11
San Jose, CA
| said by slellis  :Where have all the real geeks gone... I can switch to another service and get a free modem! I can call ATT and sit through their levels of "tech help" until I get to someone really helpful! Why didn't I think of these things? I don't know why, but now that you've figured out your options I'll move on to someone else who needs help.  |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA | Ok Guys, thanks a lot. Sorry I bothered you. |
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Lanik
Lab-nik
Premium,ExMod 2002-03
join:2001-06-25
Bay Area
 ·DSL EXTREME
edit:
April 29th, @07:35AM
| reply to slellis
said by slellis :I can switch to another service and get a free modem! I pity the next provider you decide to choose, since it seems everyone is giving you "the company line". You sure have a great way of asking for help. Were you aware that your modem provides no stats about your connection? Or the only people who can see your stats are AT&T employees? I think we'll just have to rely on our psychic powers and auto magically fix your problem. That's the ticket.
--
"If it ain't broke don't fix it." |
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skj
Welcome to the far side of reality
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-04
Atlanta, GA
Host:
Charter HSI/CATV
Earthlink DSL
Embarq
ISP b2b etc
Cisco
| reply to slellis
If you have been here before, or asked anyone for help, in any venue, you know that criticizing those who are trying to help you is not the way to get help. We have some very helpful members here that have, and continue to, to the best of their ability, try to help those who post here. Without additional information about your line it is not really possible to diagnose your issue. You have been advised to start a thread in the »/forum/sbcdirect forum, where the techs can actually take a look at your line. Given the information you have supplied, that is the best advice someone can give you.
--
The foundations of character are built not by lecture, but by bricks of good example, laid day by day. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
edit:
April 29th, @12:46PM
| reply to slellis
Westell WireSp;eed B90-36R516 | 
SS-4100 replacement modem (and new router). | 
Westell line stats. |
said by slellis :No local modems that I know of that I can borrow (most are with Comcast)! Way back whe I first signed up with good old PacBell the install tech said the line was really good and I got around 2200 before SBC/YAHOO/ATT came along and caped it at 1500 (then I dropped to getting 1200). SBC bought Pacific Telesis in 1996, so you probably already "belonged" to SBC when you got your Westell WireSpeed modem. At least that was the case when I signed up in February, 2001. SBC did not impose the requirement to bill under the SBC brand until around March, 2002 (I think the landlady's telephone bill was under the Pacific Telesis brand through February, 2002). Yahoo! did not enter the picture until mid-2004, or so; and, in any case, they have no say in the provisioning of DSL service.
The tech left an MPOE tag at my station protector which rated my line capacity at 2250kbps/556kbps with a down attenuation of 44.5db and a noise margin of 28db. The package I signed up for was 1536kbps/128kbps, and I always got near 85% of the package speeds. Any "capping" was based on your profile at the DSLAM, and whatever Internet package you signed up for.
I bricked that Westell modem through carelessness in using some software I had found online for looking at the line stats.
If I need a new modem maybe they'd like to give me one!
I got that Westell free, after S&H, because of a rebate. But I then owned that modem. SBC always laid the responsibility for replacement on the owner after the warranty expired. If I had not borked the Westell myself, I probably could have replaced it free when I upgraded from Express to Pro.
Since you recently upgraded from Express to Pro (Elite to Pro would be a downgrade, and your numbers from the PacBell install are too low to support an upgrade to Elite), you might be able to talk them out of a new modem. They should have offered on the upgrade (though they only offered me the 2Wire; and I already had the SS4100 when I upgraded). Perhaps, if you tell them that you were not offered the new modem when you placed your upgrade order, and your current modem is over five years old, they will relent and ship you one with a rebate. AFAIK, you have to pay, up front, no matter what; but, if you qualify, you get a rebate on the purchase price, less S&H.
Come on, people, I used to get real help on this board, not the company line!
What "company line" would that be? tonydi 's suggestion was "on the mark". My own suggestion that you try to get your modem upgrade after the fact of the speed tier upgrade is iffy, at best. You might have to press the order department; politely, please. Rude demands will certainly kill your chances.
P.S. Westell still has a diagnostic online for the B90-36R516 modem, assuming that is what your old WireSpeed is:
»www.westell.com/index.php?option···=support
I am reasonably sure that file won't brick your Westell, but I don't know if that one displays all the line stats. I have uploaded images of my late Westell WireSpeed B90-36R516, and the modem browser window showing the line stats. But that browser window might have been from the "deadly" application, which included a firmware upgrade option which is wrong for that modem.
P.P.S. I also added an image of the SS-4100 replacement for the Westell "brick", which includes the new D-Link DIR 655 router, as well.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA
| Thank you very much, Norman. I posted on this board because in the past I had gotten good technical information and sugestions that had helped me fix problems w/o going through the ATT routine. My first response (to tonydi) was not meant to be mean (he did basicaly repeat information that was already posted on this site), sorry I upset everyone. The wirespeed in the picture looks like the one I have. I realize that I can likely talk ATT into giveng me a modem; just didn't want to go through the hassel if it wouldn't fix the problem.
BTW, I did sign up with PacBell b4 the SBC takeover. |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
edit:
April 29th, @05:24PM
| reply to slellis
Listen we didn't mean to be harsh, but we can't emphasis enough how important it is to have a modern modem that can give you line stats. When you can read your own line stats/diagnostics, you aren't at the mercy of the Tier 1 script readers. You can know that sync problems are caused by loop problems.
If you could read your line stats, we would suggest that you try the NID test in this FAQ to see if your stats improved: »AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »How do I check modem stats, synch rates & speeds at NID - Residential Housin. As I said before, chances are that your attenuation is too high, possibly because you loop is too long. If your inside wiring is adding a large amount to your attenuation, then possibly you could install a POTS splitter-home run to lower it and gain sync stability.
Another advantage to the modern Speedstream modems and the recent Motorola modem is that they have much better chip sets that the Alcatel chip set in your Westell. The AR7 chip set from Texas Instruments will handle marginal lines such as yours maybe at Pro speeds much better than the ancient Alcatel chip sets.
You can also do the NID test while a tech in Direct reads your stats remotely, but it requires some coordination with their schedules. The techs in Direct are also more shorthanded now than they used to be.
Edit: You may be lucky and only have an interferer on your loop. If you have an interferer, your line could comfortably accomodate the necessary tone bins for Express speeds such as shown in the chart in this FAQ: »SBC DSL FAQ »How can I check for the maximum attainable sync speeds with a 5100b/4100 modem?, but more tone bins are required when your speed was boosted to Pro. The higher frequency tone bins on your line could be partially impaired by an intermittent interferer. This would disrupt your sync when the RFI signal increases.
The reason I say you would be lucky if this is your problem is because it can be fixed! Loops that are too long and have too much attenuuation can't be fixed except by moving closer to the DSLAM/RT. |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA
| d_l, Thanks; this is the kind of input I was looking for. Your and Normans' post give me something to work with and are much apperciated. Your first post did sound harsh, and I responded in kind. My bad; I should of just let it go. Sorry. Yesterday I had 5 or 6 disconnects, today I haven't had any! Still not sure whats really going on, maybe even not related to the upgrade? |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to slellis
said by slellis :BTW, I did sign up with PacBell b4 the SBC takeover. In 1996, when SBC took over, I was living in rural Placer County. I had never even heard of DSL. Even now, the Wheatland exchange (the CO which served my premises then) is not listed as DSL capable.
By 1999, when I moved back to the S.F. Bay Area, SBC had grabbed Pacific Telesis. DSL was not available in this neighborhood of San Jose when I moved in, or for two years thereafter.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to slellis
Yeah, but without some real line stats from your modem, that was all "ifs", "maybes", and "buts". We can't give any good suggestions without hard data.
Right now it would seem with your current loop, inside wiring, and modem; your DSL connection may be marginal. You may have interferences, line noise, or even loop temperature sensitivity that pushes your line into instability. |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA
| reply to NormanS
From Wikipedia:
In 1997, Pacific Telesis Group was acquired by SBC Communications, and although the Pacific Telesis corporate name disappeared fairly quickly, SBC continued to operate the local telephone companies separately under their original names.
In September 2001, SBC rebranded the telephone company "SBC Pacific Bell". In late 2002, the companies were rebranded again as simply "SBC".
According to my records I switched from dial up to DSL in spring 98, so I guess it was opperated as Pacific Bell but owned by SBC. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by slellis :According to my records I switched from dial up to DSL in spring 98, so I guess it was opperated as Pacific Bell but owned by SBC. Exactly. SBC acquired a bunch of companies about the same time: Ameritech, Pacific Telesis, New England Telephone, and Prodigy. But SBC allowed the acquired companies to operate under the local brands until 2002. And some were re-branded earlier (my landlady's bill went from PacBell to SBC in March 2002) than others (some SNET and Prodigy users were still seeing their old brands on bills through 2003, I am told; and some employees were getting paychecks under the old brand as late as two years ago, or so).
Anyway, back to business...were you able to grab that utility I linked? Were you able to get it to work?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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grendal
Mmm Donuts
Premium
join:2001-10-10
Fremont, CA
clubs:
| reply to slellis
For what it's worth, my westell wirespeed experienced daily disconnects after years of faithful service (i'm on elite). I just swapped to a spare dsl modem i got when i moved to my new place. Maybe time for a new modem. If you can't get ATT to give you a freebie, ebay sells them relatively cheap. |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA | Ok, I'm working on getting a newer (used) modem (craigs list)and a new one from ATT. Hope to have one tomorrow. Still not sure that's the problem, but will at least provide more data. Overall problem seems better, only one disconnect today. |
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slellis
join:2003-07-13
Pleasanton, CA
|  reply to NormanS
Hi Norman and all - Some follow up - and a new question. I found a local (in house) source of interference and with that corrected the Westell and the DSL line work fine - good speed and no disconnects for three days now!
However, in the meantime, I picked up a SpeedStream 4100b and would like to try it - good to have a backup. Is it better to use the modem or the router to run PPOE (looking at various FAX, it seems like I could do either)? What are the advantages of one vs the other? Thanks for any input. |
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