Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? in HughesNet Satellite

said by Downrange

:...problems with 4PM - midnight speeds being much lower, whether due to demand or a switch being thrown, are well documented on this and many other sites. I'm not sure how you're getting the evening speeds you posted there, but practically NO ONE else on HN is getting them.

And you know this how? from three posts on this forum and a handful of uninformed whiner sites? If you paid closer attention, evidence is mounting that this selective 4-midnight issue may be related to usage patterns.

said by Downrange

:FWIW, I've been with Direcway/HN for years, and presently have a 7000 system. Not that that matters one bit to this discussion.

It has EVERYTHING to do with this discussion. I have the same equipment as you. I have acceptable performance 24/7, you do not. What that tells me is that (1) my hardware is better installed than yours, and (2) my usage patterns are more conservative than yours.

said by Downrange

: it's not that KU is the evil here, it's that all their birds are FULL.

BS !! if that were true, explain my speed test results. Note please, that they do NOT include the acknowledged low usage period between midnight and 0500 local (which includes the so-called FAP-free hours). And PLEASE - I tested at 1135 instead of 1130? Gimme a break!!

said by Downrange

:Re-reading what you posted, the implication is that everyone can get those high evening speeds by doing things to their installation, like ensuring good cables and grounding. This is frankly absurd.

I'd call that SELECTIVE re-reading of what I posted. I've been around the block enough times to make a significant wager that your issues are threefold: (a) less than optimum hardware setup, (2) some kind of usage pattern that Hughes doesn't like, and possibly (3) over-populated gateway server. There isn't a damn thing PANDEMIC about this - it's obviously selective - and it's guaranteed fixable. You just have to push the right buttons.

said by Downrange

Fact is, the Spaceway info I posted is correct. Fact is, you're wrong - and I can back that up. You're posting from an emotional viewpoint. I'm the impartial technical guy.

//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411593 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:26:49 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411579 Downrange : People don't read, they don't listen. This problem has been documented by Hughesnet since the Fall. The Level Two service (native English speaking) techs are the ones who are saying there's nothing I can do, that it's demand based. If you're getting 400-600 at night, you'd better keep quiet about it, as all of us who are getting 40-60 will pile onto your beam.

If you're happy, I'm happy for you. Most of us are thoroughly disgusted with Hughesnet. If the past is any indication, you will be eventually.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411579 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:24:11 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411449 Arion :

quote:
yes, it's not possible to objectively document, but certainly, if you go to websites where these things are discussed, the problem seems to be extremely widespread

Of course. Most "normal" customers could care less about sites like these. The ones that have the problems seek these sort of sites out. Because of that your going to see a very weighted negative response about the systems and the performance.

And it really doesn't matter who the provider is. You find the same gripes about WB on those forums and on Starband, ect. We are the bottom rung of satellite internet. If you want guaranteed bandwidth and very good guaranteed performance then your going to shell out hundreds of dollars a month to get it with an enterprise setup.

I know a few other Hughes users personally and they are pleased with their systems and they don't post here. The business I work for has both a Hughes and a Starband account and they have trouble with the Starband but never a lick of trouble with the Hughes.

Unfortunately it's the luck of the draw. I think "most" satellite internet users are either satisified or tolerate the lower than cable performance understanding that when you live in the boonies anything better than dialup is perferable.

I did a self install with a DW6000 bought off of fleabay and then upgraded with the HNS7000S. I have the pro package and consistantly get my 1000 kbps download and quite often get between 1200 and 1400 speeds. During prime time it will drop into the 400 to 600 range for a few hours but I can live with that. On a shared bandwidth system the pipe is only so big and when everyone turns on the faucet the flow drops.

Those who are almost always in the dial up range have a problem with their system. Either in setup or with components going south. You shouldn't have to troubleshoot your own system...it should work right from the beginning. However unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. IF I can ever get wireless here or DSL I would go for it but from my perspective and where I live I'm very pleased with the systems performance overall.
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.12 / www.bigbaywx.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20411449 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:03:14 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410830 Downrange : MichaelRS: Agree, and I'm not praising WB, just saying the evening slowdown is less. The sad thing is that if HN were willing to handle things a bit more rationally (at least to me) I'd be happy to step up and order a whole new plan, with new commitments, and step up service level, to get the Ka bird. You'd think they'd want to keep a customer that's been there as long as I have, but they just seem to want to shed users. I may short their stock, actually, now that I think about it.

Heading to the Verizon Wireless store to pick up EVDO and give it a try. I had no idea it was available way out here in the sticks, but the map says it is. Will report back if it works out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410830 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:15:27 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410737 Downrange : Dbird: yes, it's not possible to objectively document, but certainly, if you go to websites where these things are discussed, the problem seems to be extremely widespread. What I take as harder evidence is what Hughes technicians have actually told me - that upgrading my service plan and equipment will NOT help my evening problems. I asked if they could move me to a different sat/transponder and they said that wouldn't help either.

The relative few who are NOT getting downgraded service in prime time are probably lucky enough to be on a bird/transp that's just not as heavily loaded - that's the only explanation I can think of.

I could type for hours about the terrible customer service experiences I've had with these jokers. They are simply the worst, ever. At least a few are honest enough to admit that spending more money is not going to help. I appreciate those few at HN. Most just try to sell you a newer modem or more expensive plan, which do nothing to help the problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410737 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:55:18 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410719 MichaelRS : I have had WB before and we killed it after 6 months going back to HN. I was on GroundControl before with a 4020.

Funny notes: Neither GroundControl nor MotoSat will now want to do HN/DirecWay. They hate HN.

I do not doubt you CAN get better stuff at WB, however, in populous areas such as Silicon Valley, where a lot of people do NOT have DSL or Cable, but are very tech demanding, they filled their 21 spot in no time and that cratered their business in CA. they have one spot covering the Bay Area/Nor Cal and SoCal... Somebody ought to have overlaid population density, acces to broadband and demand with their spot pattern.

Same business problem at WB: Loaded with debt, leased lines, too many customers on too few bandwidth: Crater.
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HN7000S - Satmex 6 - 1210 - 0.98m / 2W dish - HughesNet ProPlus]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410719 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:52:07 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410670 dbirdman :

said by Downrange

:

I'm not sure how you're getting the evening speeds you posted there, but practically NO ONE else on HN is getting them.

That is objectively impossible to document, but your opinion is contrary to mine; I think that most HN customers have never seen the 4-12 issue and are surprised if it is mentioned. Here at BBR, which overally has a tiny percentage of each ISPs cusomers, that percentage tends to be power users and is weighted towards those with problems.

On my mobile forums, where the participation is mostly for support on issues other than Hughes, we have a small number of fixed users, and one who joined recently was experiencing the 4-12 problem. He got a very quizzical response from other members, because only those of us that are also on BBR had ever heard of the issue before.

Fact is, the Spaceway info I posted is correct.

Generally, I would agree that you seem to have gathered correct info on the way it is being handled. I do not think it is likely to change, possibly ever. Certainly so long as there is only one Ka Bird installers will have to install some percentage of Ku customers due to line-of-sight issues. Beyond that, Hughes is well aware that the most disgruntled customers are those that have had a specific level of performance and see that deteriorate. From their standpoint it is better to start customers off with the same performance they are likely to see when the beam is fully loaded.
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W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|iDirect 3100 on Datastorm 1.2 meter XF3 with 4-watt BUC|HughesNet IA8/1390/7000s Pro on 2-watt Datastorm G74|Sprint Broadband U595+MBR1000 router+Wilson Antenna/Amp|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410670 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:41:21 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410581 Downrange : MichaelRS, excellent post, thanks. Couple of things you raised - yes, Wildblue is Ka band and is also getting overcrowded. I run both, though and WB is NOT suffering nearly as much during primetime. It has other problems - some things HN does better, but in general WB is at least as good (Laredo beam here). You nailed HN situation - they have sold more service than they can provide; Spaceway is their shining hope to keep their business model going, so they're being very jealous about giving it out. I've talked with many people at many levels at HN, and a few have confided that they are not at liberty to discuss Spaceway and the 9000 AT ALL! It's clear to me they are using it as a carrot to attract interest, then switching many to the old KU systems (and full birds!). After eight years with them, I frankly would expect more loyalty than that, but it's not there. I threatened to leave, they said, "Fine."

HN is a terrible company. I'm keeping WildBlue, even though they have flaws too. I just found out today that Verizon EVDO is finally available way out here, so I will try it and see if it can replace HN. After this latest email fiasco, and the nightly "dial-up" speeds, I've about had it with Hughes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410581 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:23:26 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410460 MichaelRS : grohgreg, with your 35 years of experience in satellite you should indeed do better than skirt around the issue.
The speeds you posted are not taken during the core time in question and you have no updated measurements since Apr 5.
In my case the 4-12 slowdown started around Apr 25. Do yourself and ourself a favor of honesty and take measurements now (aka today) between 4pm and 12AM EDT.

If you truly do not have any reduction in speed to 100Kbps I am sure you will in no time because I will jump on your sat & transponder in no time (and so will everybody else).
HNS Exec Cust Care has confirmed (!) that 75% (!) have traffic shaping going on and they (HNS) hope that churn and attrition will move people away.

HN is loaded with debt and can't afford to buy more capacity (ie no more debt/loans) and MUST bring Spaceway to generate more (read: NEW) customers and not make existing customers happy. This is not anymore a technical issue, it is a business decision about the survival of the company and how you prove that to investors. Technically they need to keep the system alive so they throttle everyone down, businesswise, they can't buy more capacity.

If you need better service go iDirect or T-1, and your 35 years of satellite experience will say that too.

BTW, re: this ka Band and spot technology, isn't that what WildBlue used and cratered on ??? All fast adopters on one spot beam and then speed goes down to a crawl and the next thing is that they throttle things down.

It is supply (1) and demand (a lot).
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HN7000S - Satmex 6 - 1210 - 0.98m / 2W dish - HughesNet ProPlus]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410460 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:56:24 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410373 mooch :

said by grohgreg

:

Neither whining nor speculation will do anything to improve your current perception.
//greg//

Unfortunately, when HNS can't do anything to get speeds up during primetime for a lot of folks, there's not much more an HNS customer can do than "whine".

Condescending remarks such as yours above does little to help the folks who are having issues with HNS and only adds to their frustration.
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ex Hughesnet customer - thank goodness!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410373 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:37:57 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410286 Downrange : Tobi - at 8PM??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410286 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:16:09 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410188 tobicat : I do not waste my time doing a lot of speed test but my 6000 sitting right next to my 9000 is doing as good or beter than the 9000.
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7000s, satmex5, 1270, dlink wireless]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20410188 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:50:40 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409808 Downrange : Greg, the problems with 4PM - midnight speeds being much lower, whether due to demand or a switch being thrown, are well documented on this and many other sites. I'm not sure how you're getting the evening speeds you posted there, but practically NO ONE else on HN is getting them.
Perhaps you have a better plan, although level two support told me ordering one up would do no good.

FWIW, I've been with Direcway/HN for years, and presently have a 7000 system. Not that that matters one bit to this discussion.

Edit; you asked some other qxs that I don't have time to look up at present - and, also, it's not that KU is the evil here, it's that all their birds are FULL.

Re-reading what you posted, the implication is that everyone can get those high evening speeds by doing things to their installation, like ensuring good cables and grounding. This is frankly absurd. System problems don't cause sharp breakdowns in service levels from 4PM - midnite, like clockwork: system load and cutback from HN does. Again, HN support confirms this. Please don't try to dismiss the pandemic situation with regard to evening performance as a problem at the user end.

Upon yet a third read, I notice you have NO speed tests from 5PM-11PM. So, maybe you don't get good test then either. Why are you posting all those high scores and leaving out the time block in question, Greg? (I don't count "11:35 PM" as it's near the time we all get faster speeds). Full disclosure: Do you work for Hughesnet?

Fact is, the Spaceway info I posted is correct. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409808 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:23:22 EDT Re: What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409769 grohgreg : A signature line would have been informative, so I have to ask: which Direcway/HughesNet system do you currently own? What is your satellite/transponder assignment? What kind of hardware is installed? Do you have the LCCU installed?

Reading into your words, I'm gonna guess you went the DW4000 upgrade route. So before you write off Ku-band as the source of all evil, let me speculate that my system doesn't differ much from yours; an 8 year old elliptical dish and 1w transmitter outside, with a HN7000S upgrade modem and power adapter inside. With good hardware, quality cable and connectors, competent grounding, and a properly aligned reflector should give you performance like mine:
April 6th, 11:35PM - 1179/186 kbps
April 6th, 11:33PM - 1065/175 kbps
April 4th, 02:05PM - 994/126 kbps
April 4th, 02:04PM - 727/92 kbps
March 18th, 09:40AM - 1206/169 kbps
March 18th, 09:38AM - 1214/190 kbps
March 11th, 03:47PM - 1105/150 kbps
March 11th, 03:46PM - 1110/173 kbps
February 29th, 08:56AM - 1083/187 kbps
February 29th, 08:55AM - 1000/182 kbps
February 3rd, 03:18PM - 1151/194 kbps
February 3rd, 03:16PM - 1193/194 kbps
January 30th, 12:49PM - 984/128 kbps
January 30th, 12:48PM - 769/153 kbps
January 16th, 08:19AM - 1179/138 kbps
January 16th, 08:18AM - 1005/144 kbps

Neither whining nor speculation will do anything to improve your current perception. This is a self-help forum, representing a pretty good-sized pool of previous experience that you should tap. Because if you shell out a pile of cash expecting Spaceway consumer grade service to surpass that of HughesNet, you're in for a big disappointment.

//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409769 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:13:40 EDT What's going on with Spaceway 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409671 Downrange : As a disgruntled victim of Hughesnet, I've been trying to find a way to achieve service levels that even approach those I got five or more years ago with my 4000 units. As all know, lately the evening speeds are "dial-up" level. HN makes no bones about being able to do anything to help long term customers - I've threatened to leave and they say "Here's the door." They also are under a GAG ORDER from their bosses NOT to discuss the new Spaceway 3 system, the 9000/9500 modems, etc.
This is what I've been able to determine, through lots of phone calls, research of multiple sites, etc., is probably going on. The new Spaceway system is being phased in very gradually to NEW CUSTOMERS only, and you cannot ORDER one. The installers, once they've completed their training on the new systems, install either the old or new system, depending on site-lines and inventory. They are told to LIE and say the performance is the same, which is horsepuckey. The new 9000 systems use a totally different bird and frequency band (KA vs. KU), and have very few users at this point. They also use spot beam technology and should afford lower latency due to the way information is moved about. They ARE being deliberately speed governed to keep them at the levels of the old KU system at present, but shouldn't suffer from the evening slowdowns we are all having to put up with. BUT, you can't order one.
The reason is they have this remaining inventory of KU systems to sell, plus, if they made the KA systems available to anyone (or even those of us who've payed into this crappy company for YEARS, and should deserve it), the Spaceway bird would rapidly get as bad as the old ones. So, they dole out the new systems to a few new customers, here and there, in an effort to suck more people into their net, keep as many of the older customers slogging along at evening dial-up speeds, and, if possible, sell them new (and useless) equipment and plans to maximize their profits.

If and when it becomes possible to actually ORDER and receive the new system, I will cancel my old plan and do so, but as of now, they will not promise one to you. That's the long and short of what I've been able to find out - if you've got additional info, please share.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409671 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:45:45 EDT