Re: Wrong info? in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20425556 en Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:37:26 EDT Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:37:26 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20436791 tc1uscg : True. One of the problems is people like VoIP because they want to "stick it to the man".. Granted a hand-full really use their phones and don't care for the sometimes crappy quality. These are the same people who will try to use a cell phone while driving down the highway with the top down, or windows down. I have Comcast's phone service and a pots line (call 50, used for inbound only). I also live near a "golden site" for Sprint so I'm going to have power as long as the cell tech keeps the genset fueled up. My outage was caused by a WOW cable guy. And the AT&T guy who came out to MAKE SURE my phone was working also ran a new drop and inside wire to my 66 block. He didn't have to do that but he said he wanted to make sure I didn't have more issues since I had to wait so long for them to fix it. He was almost a little sappy about the whole thing. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20436791 Mon, 05 May 2008 20:45:27 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20430915 Comm Tech : I have Comcast's CDV (VOIP) and a 7 year old son, and for that reason alone I verify they have the correct address on file when I pay my bill every month. Sometimes its a pain to pay by phone and sometimes they want to charge you for paying by phone, ( I think there was an article posted on BBR about that not to long ago). but Its worth it to me for the piece of mind if its needed.
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said by RR Conductor See Profile :

said by kenn10 See Profile :

Where are all the liberals complaining that the government needs to intervene? Maybe we need to implant chips in the heads of people to make sure they know where they are and remind them to update their 911 locations when they move.

A bad 911 database with the VOIP provider resulted in incorrect response to an old address. That was the responsibility of the subscriber. Everyone wants to save a buck woth VOIP but take no personal responsibility for their own actions.

Ho hum....
When a lack of truth and actual solutions evade them, they always pull the L word out.
Please take note, Mr. Conductor: in the minds of some, calling someone a liberal IS a solution!

I guess that the government is supposed to protect us by data mining all our phone calls without judicial oversight, but making sure the calls connect when we dial emergency services is not protecting us, it's over-regulation.

I think too much regulation can be bad, but making sure emergency services are available just seems like a no-brainer.

Either way, I'll take Qwest copper and not have to worry. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428810 Sun, 04 May 2008 01:58:13 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428772 cyclone_z :
said by tc1uscg See Profile :

Right.. VOIP? They are lucky they even got a DT. What a sad case indeed and all this just to save a few dollars on POTS :(.

POTS isn't idiot proof, but after having POTS for 25 years and having 1 week of outage due to some moron for that ENTIRE time, then, after having VoIP from 2 providers for 18 months and having more then 4 weeks of total outages,
I've had a similar experience with POTS. Over a period of almost 20 years, I don't remember the POTS service at my parents' house failing even once. Last spring it failed. It would have been repaired the next day, but no one was going to be home and Qwest didn't want to send a tech out without access to the NID, which is inside the house. Turns out they didn't even have to come to the house; the problem was down the road.

Also last year there was a major ice storm that knocked out power for a couple of days to a good size area, including some cell sites. I don't know if if cell service worked or not but POTS sure did. The entire time, the Qwest line continued to work. The CO even lost power, but they have backup batteries and generators.

Even though Verizon Wireless service is very reliable, there is the occasion where the service or the handset goes a little flaky and doesn't complete a call right away; I've even got an "all circuits busy" message once. I've decided that I really should get some copper hooked up. It's worth it.

If anybody thinks that copper POTS is too expensive, at least with Qwest you can get metered local service, where you can receive any number of calls, but outgoing calls are charged on a per-call basis (vs. unlimited local calling). I think the service is about $8 or $9 per month. So for about $100 per year, a person can have the ability to call 911 with the 99.99% reliability that comes with copper POTS service. In my mind, $100 for that kind of reliability would look cheap should an emergency arise.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428772 Sun, 04 May 2008 01:37:21 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428592 RR Conductor :
said by kenn10 See Profile :

Where are all the liberals complaining that the government needs to intervene? Maybe we need to implant chips in the heads of people to make sure they know where they are and remind them to update their 911 locations when they move.

A bad 911 database with the VOIP provider resulted in incorrect response to an old address. That was the responsibility of the subscriber. Everyone wants to save a buck woth VOIP but take no personal responsibility for their own actions.

Ho hum....
When a lack of truth and actual solutions evade them, they always pull the L word out.
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said by crapmac See Profile :

said by knightmb See Profile :

Very unfortunate indeed. Without more info it's hard to say, as all of the news stories I read are reporting slightly different information that doesn't seem to be consistent.

A media circus I'm certain, but I guess if I reported my story of when VoIP saved a neighbors life when their land line failed that wouldn't make as much news. :p

i've never actually heard of a landline failing. I think that before VoIP should be used widespread - i guess it already is -, the companies that developed the technology need to establish safety measures that have to be taken before service is established at a given address (like a correct address for the customer, and a verification by either the VoIP provider or the ISP that the internet service that the telephone call will go over is working in the best possible condition - without any hiccups).

It's very unfortunate that the VoIP call disconnected, leaving the emergency responders to whatever information they had on-hand. It's upsetting to know that a minor glitch in a new phone technology can have terrible consequences if not fixed.

The poor family - that's definitely the worst consequence i can think of when i see so many people in the forums complaining of their disconnecting VoIP service. I just feel so bad for them - they didn't do anything to cause this, and neither did the Canadian emergency center or the emergency responders. It was just a tiny hiccup in the system.
Right.. VOIP? They are lucky they even got a DT. What a sad case indeed and all this just to save a few dollars on POTS :(.

To the guy about the L/L failing and VoIP saving a life. I had a 1 week failure of POTS due to the cable guy hooking up my service pulled my drop right out of the cable splice. AT&T forwarded my number to my cell till it was fixed (1 week due to the below zero temps and a tree had to get trimmed before they could fix the splice). POTS isn't idiot proof, but after having POTS for 25 years and having 1 week of outage due to some moron for that ENTIRE time, then, after having VoIP from 2 providers for 18 months and having more then 4 weeks of total outages, not included in that are the times I had inbound only, echo, static (where I had to hang up and try again) and at least 5 times of E911 (much less 911) showing the incorrect address("VoIP caller"), saving the 20 bucks a month just wasn't worth the life's of my 3 kids. I tested my 911 calls every month when I got the bill. We we do call through testing for wireless upgrades, we test 911/E911 every single time so I'm accustom to testing with 911 ops. Working for a large telco who provides backbone for a cable company.. just knowing what I know behind the scenes, I'll put my life and trust in a POTS line any day over VoIP. Nuff said. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428041 Sat, 03 May 2008 21:52:09 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427906 Jmartz :
said by andyb See Profile :

The article I read said that the address was givin but the operator couldn't understand the caller so just used the billing address.
So why can't VOIP providers require that the actual service address be listed on the account for 911 purposes? Customers should be told not to move the device outside of the place it's registered. If they do, they do it at their own risk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427906 Sat, 03 May 2008 21:21:36 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427690 crapmac :
said by knightmb See Profile :

Very unfortunate indeed. Without more info it's hard to say, as all of the news stories I read are reporting slightly different information that doesn't seem to be consistent.

A media circus I'm certain, but I guess if I reported my story of when VoIP saved a neighbors life when their land line failed that wouldn't make as much news. :p

i've never actually heard of a landline failing. I think that before VoIP should be used widespread - i guess it already is -, the companies that developed the technology need to establish safety measures that have to be taken before service is established at a given address (like a correct address for the customer, and a verification by either the VoIP provider or the ISP that the internet service that the telephone call will go over is working in the best possible condition - without any hiccups).

It's very unfortunate that the VoIP call disconnected, leaving the emergency responders to whatever information they had on-hand. It's upsetting to know that a minor glitch in a new phone technology can have terrible consequences if not fixed.

The poor family - that's definitely the worst consequence i can think of when i see so many people in the forums complaining of their disconnecting VoIP service. I just feel so bad for them - they didn't do anything to cause this, and neither did the Canadian emergency center or the emergency responders. It was just a tiny hiccup in the system.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427690 Sat, 03 May 2008 20:31:55 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427043 Greg_Z :
said by firebird See Profile :

Since when do you have "update your 911" info?? That provider sure knows where to send your bill. I don't have to update my 911 info for my landline!
Where the bill goes, does not always mean that the handset will be in that location.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20427043 Sat, 03 May 2008 17:49:59 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426964 firebird : Since when do you have "update your 911" info?? That provider sure knows where to send your bill. I don't have to update my 911 info for my landline!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426964 Sat, 03 May 2008 17:29:47 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426859 RARPSL :
said by Greg_Z See Profile :

You are talking about Canada.
What does it being Canada (as opposed I assume to the US) have to do with attempting to call back to get/confirm the information? If the call was terminated as was stated, I'd assume that the attempt to reconnect (by the 911 Operator calling back) would seem to be a good response.

There is also the question of WHY the VoIP Company's System did not reconfirm the 911 Location information at the time of the Billing Address Change request. It seems to me that if both addresses were the same, that a change in one (especially the Billing Address) would seem to be reason to ASK if the 911 Location Address was to be left as was or kept synchronized with the Billing Address. Failure to make this OBVIOUS check is in my opinion, a sign of poor design of the customer support system.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426859 Sat, 03 May 2008 17:01:16 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426850 alexintexas : so now the parents should and need to be charged with negligence!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426850 Sat, 03 May 2008 16:58:12 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426730 kenn10 : Where are all the liberals complaining that the government needs to intervene? Maybe we need to implant chips in the heads of people to make sure they know where they are and remind them to update their 911 locations when they move.

A bad 911 database with the VOIP provider resulted in incorrect response to an old address. That was the responsibility of the subscriber. Everyone wants to save a buck woth VOIP but take no personal responsibility for their own actions.

Ho hum....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426730 Sat, 03 May 2008 16:27:49 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426549 Greg_Z : You are talking about Canada.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426549 Sat, 03 May 2008 15:42:38 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426507 RARPSL :
said by Greg_Z See Profile :

Sorry, but 35 sec's is not enough to provide correct info.
It is my impression that a hang-up to a 911 call triggers a call-back to that number by the 911 Center. Why did they NOT try to at least call the customer back when the call was disconnected?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426507 Sat, 03 May 2008 15:32:36 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426030 BF69 :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Greg_Z See Profile :

Just because the billing address is correct, does not mean that the 911 address is correct. Hell, I could give my mother a IP phone, and have the bill come here. Does that mean that they will have the 911 where the phone is at all times? No.
The VOIP provider CLAIMED they use the billing address when they don't have a registered 911 address in their database. But, they used an old billing address. They are still on the hook. Also, the caller claimed they gave the correct address when they made the call as well.
If the parents had taken the 1 mintue it would have taken to update the 911 address the emergency people would have goten there FACT. The bottom line it's their fault. Everyone knows or SHOULD know that you MUST update the 911 adress YOURSELF. This is common knowledge type stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426030 Sat, 03 May 2008 13:42:28 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425983 brandpc : Its possible there WAS a 911 address on file -- just the old address.

The family had updated the billing address but never the 911 address. Therefore, old 911 address was on file, new billing address was on file, problem occured.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425983 Sat, 03 May 2008 13:33:23 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425838 Greg_Z : Sorry, but 35 sec's is not enough to provide correct info.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425838 Sat, 03 May 2008 12:51:18 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425835 TK Junk Mail :
said by Greg_Z See Profile :

Just because the billing address is correct, does not mean that the 911 address is correct. Hell, I could give my mother a IP phone, and have the bill come here. Does that mean that they will have the 911 where the phone is at all times? No.
The VOIP provider CLAIMED they use the billing address when they don't have a registered 911 address in their database. But, they used an old billing address. They are still on the hook. Also, the caller claimed they gave the correct address when they made the call as well.
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said by La Luna See Profile :

The parents never bothered to update the 911 info with their VoIP provider after they moved.

This child did not die because "Voip biggest fears realized!", he died because the parents didn't update their 911 info. Not the VoIP providers fault.
According to this, the VOIP provider had the correct address at the time of the incident:
»www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/···voip0503
An invoice dated March 30, 2008 has the Lucks' current residence listed.

Comwave officials could not be reached Friday night for comment on the invoices.
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It's up to VOIP customers to ensure the company has up-to-date contact information, George said.

The Luck family moved to Calgary two years ago.

»www.canada.com/topics/news/natio···&k=46053

The parents never bothered to update the 911 info with their VoIP provider after they moved.

This child did not die because "Voip biggest fears realized!", he died because the parents didn't update their 911 info. Not the VoIP providers fault.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425761 Sat, 03 May 2008 12:35:03 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425556 knightmb :
said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by andyb See Profile :

The article I read said that the address was givin but the operator couldn't understand the caller so just used the billing address.
Here is a current link to the story that said the VOIP provider had the current address but it wasn't in the 911 database they keep:
»www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/···voip0503
Very unfortunate indeed. Without more info it's hard to say, as all of the news stories I read are reporting slightly different information that doesn't seem to be consistent.

A media circus I'm certain, but I guess if I reported my story of when VoIP saved a neighbors life when their land line failed that wouldn't make as much news. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425556 Sat, 03 May 2008 11:30:26 EDT Re: Wrong info? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425486 nklb : This is the link I had submitted. Not sure why I am not seeing it in the article itself...

»www.canada.com/topics/news/natio···&k=46053
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said by andyb See Profile :

The article I read said that the address was givin but the operator couldn't understand the caller so just used the billing address.
Here is a current link to the story that said the VOIP provider had the current address but it wasn't in the 911 database they keep:
»www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/···voip0503
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