Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page in HughesNet Satellite http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20426423 en Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:45:31 EDT Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:45:31 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490564 grohgreg : Well, like I said; just looking at a few samples isn't enough to make a definitive diagnosis. Those you posted contain statistics that could be attributed to rain, to a bad LNB, to a poorly pointed antenna, bad cable or connector, failing power adapter, over-heated modem, et cetera.

No signature line doesn't help either. What is your satellite and transponder assignment? Dish size? transmitter output? Your typical clear day RSL? ACP? How is your dish mounted? How much cable? what kind? are you running the coaxial cable through any kind of surge suppressor?

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490564 Thu, 15 May 2008 23:25:53 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20489490 anon :
Here's a typical diagnostic page showing why I got the red X. They all look about like this one.

System Level Diagnostics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Monitoring interval THU MAY 15 18:55:52 2008 - THU MAY 15 19:00:52 2008
Problem(s) Detected [* - Triggering Statistic(s)] Downlink
Overall BAD
Transport BAD
---------------------------------------------------------------
Transport Layer Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Status BAD
Tx Outage Duration (in secs) 11(3.67%) MARGINAL
No frame info 128(71.51%) MARGINAL
SMA Reset Error 1 INFO
ACM MODCOD Mismatch (Higher) 0 INFO
ACM MODCOD Mismatch (Lower) 0 INFO
DVB-S2 PID loss percentage 1.0200 BAD *
TX CODE COUNTS 0|0|0|0|18|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0 INFO
TX CODE OUTAGE DURATION 0|0|0|0|11|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0 INFO
---------------------------------------------------------------
Traffic Activity
---------------------------------------------------------------
Interface Bytes Packets Rate Activity
LAN Rx 0.00K 0 0.00Kbps IDLE
Uplink 0.16K 4 0.00Kbps IDLE
Downlink 89.78K 608 2.39Kbps IDLE
LAN Tx 0.18K 5 0.00Kbps IDLE

---------------------------------------------------------------
Web Traffic Response Time Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Monitoring interval THU MAY 15 18:55:52 2008 - THU MAY 15 19:00:52 2008
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response received from TPS |Response received from prefetch cache |Response received from bypass proxy (interactive) |Response received from bypass proxy (bulk) |Response received from web/proxy server (interactive) |Response received from web/proxy server (bulk) |Response received from other |
URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |
Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |
0 2000 0(0.00%) |0 100 0(0.00%) |0 1000 0(0.00%) |0 5000 0(0.00%) |0 1000 0(0.00%) |0 5000 0(0.00%) |0 1000 0(0.00%) |
2000 4000 0(0.00%) |100 200 0(0.00%) |1000 2000 0(0.00%) |5000 10000 0(0.00%) |1000 2000 0(0.00%) |5000 10000 0(0.00%) |1000 2000 0(0.00%) |
4000 6000 0(0.00%) |200 300 0(0.00%) |2000 3000 0(0.00%) |10000 15000 0(0.00%) |2000 3000 0(0.00%) |10000 15000 0(0.00%) |2000 3000 0(0.00%) |
6000 8000 0(0.00%) |300 400 0(0.00%) |3000 4000 0(0.00%) |15000 20000 0(0.00%) |3000 4000 0(0.00%) |15000 20000 0(0.00%) |3000 4000 0(0.00%) |
8000 10000 0(0.00%) |400 500 0(0.00%) |4000 5000 0(0.00%) |20000 25000 0(0.00%) |4000 5000 0(0.00%) |20000 25000 0(0.00%) |4000 5000 0(0.00%) |
10000 12000 0(0.00%) |500 600 0(0.00%) |5000 6000 0(0.00%) |25000 30000 0(0.00%) |5000 6000 0(0.00%) |25000 30000 0(0.00%) |5000 6000 0(0.00%) |
12000 14000 0(0.00%) |600 700 0(0.00%) |6000 7000 0(0.00%) |30000 35000 0(0.00%) |6000 7000 0(0.00%) |30000 35000 0(0.00%) |6000 7000 0(0.00%) |
14000 16000 0(0.00%) |700 800 0(0.00%) |7000 8000 0(0.00%) |35000 40000 0(0.00%) |7000 8000 0(0.00%) |35000 40000 0(0.00%) |7000 8000 0(0.00%) |
16000 18000 0(0.00%) |800 900 0(0.00%) |8000 9000 0(0.00%) |40000 45000 0(0.00%) |8000 9000 0(0.00%) |40000 45000 0(0.00%) |8000 9000 0(0.00%) |
18000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |900 4294967295 0(0.00%) |9000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |45000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |9000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |45000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |9000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20489490 Thu, 15 May 2008 19:53:51 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468499 grohgreg :
said by dmp See Profile :

I get the red Xs about 75% of the time, and yes, when I do, things slow down.
Which still means absolutely nothing without analyzing TRIGGERED the red X. Let me demonstrate. This one is dead simple, one of the few times you can actually track down an issue on the basis of a single red X.

Graphic 1 shows one red X in the DNS Acceleration [N] category. Right away, the [N] tells you the problem is at your NOC. Clicking on the red X will then bring up the list of statistics that contains the trigger or triggers (graphic 2). In this case it's Timedout DNS Enquires. What that means is that the DNS server to which I'm assigned was temporarily unresponsive. During that 60 minute statistical period, 5 DNS timeouts were recorded. They represented 6% of the total enquiries. To grasp the thresholds, refer to the 3rd graphic.
Zero timeouts would have been classed as GOOD.
One to four timeouts would have been classed MARGINAL (and may have triggered a yellow System Status icon).
Five or more is classed as BAD (which generated my red X).

A red X like this is completely beyond customer control, nothing to do but wait till it's fixed at the NOC end. There are other statistics stored in the modem as well, this is just an example of using the red-X feature to aid troubleshooting.

Based upon your description, it sounds like the technician sent to your house used the shotgun approach - replacing hardware in hopes of fixing the problem by accident. I'm going to guess that he spent zero time attempting the analytical approach.

This data collection by the way, is high on the list of why the modem should remain energized 24/7, and why arbitrary modem restarts should be avoided. The internal 32MB of RAM has the potential to store a lot of such statistics. But unfortunately, every time the modem is restarted - the statistical history is zeroized.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5
Click for full size
Click for full size
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468499 Mon, 12 May 2008 06:53:55 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20467710 dmp : I have had technicians out 4 times now to try to fix my system and one of the problems I get are exactly what is described above. After the technician support, I have a new modem, new power supply, new transmitter and all wiring has been checked for grounding, etc. The techs were out here for nearly 15 hours total. Yes, I get the red Xs about 75% of the time, and yes, when I do, things slow down.
--
HN7000S-RoofMount/ Dell1.8P4-WinXP/ SP2-IE7x-2GBRAM/ NOW 93W-1086 WAS SatMex5-1270MHz]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20467710 Sun, 11 May 2008 23:22:22 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464899 grohgreg : FYI, IA6/93W (formerly TelStar 6) was renamed Galaxy 26 last year when PanamSat and IntelSat merged. That means your NOC is MST, which means it's not necessarily in the Eastern Time Zone. Not positive, but I believe it's in Minnesota (Central Time Zone).
GTN - Germantown, MD
NLV - Las Vegas, NV
MST - ?
MTN - ?

A red X in any given category is meaningless unless/until you ascertain which statistic(s)in THAT category actually triggered it. That trigger can be viewed by clicking on the red X, finding the category, locating the statistic(s) rated (BAD *). Even then the trigger(s) is/are only specific to that hours statistics. But one red X per category is often inexplicable. Multiple consecutive and/or recurring red Xs are what's required to initiate meaningful troubleshooting. Otherwise, it's all speculation.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464899 Sun, 11 May 2008 10:54:16 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464790 anon :
A clue?

I get most of my red Xs between 4pm and 12pm Eastern Daylight time (Hughes time). That's between 2pm and 10pm here in the Mountain Time Zone. If you check out the thread on "Got my afternoon and evening speeds back", there are many posts that show big time throttling between 4pm and 12pm eastern time. I see the same thing here in New Mexico on IA6. I wonder if my red Xs are from timeouts caused by the extremely slow downlink speeds. Most of the red Xs are on downlink and a few on uplink. The speed jumps at 4pm and midnight ET are very clear and repeatable in the posted speed tests. I would assume Hughes is trying to manage their highly oversold bandwidth.

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464790 Sun, 11 May 2008 10:13:04 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20431343 grohgreg :
said by rloose :

I'll bet there are only a very few people working for Hughesnet that really understand it all.
And probably none in tech support either. I've spoken occasionally but at length with a few of their engineers, not many of whom can wade through that stuff either. One handy tool though, is the diagnostic code reader. It's an extension of the TX/RX Error Code system. Pretty convoluted way of getting a diagnosis (sic), but you'll find the current code on your System Status page. You can copy it, then move to the advanced section under Diagnostics/Expert/General. There you'll find the code reader. Above the code reader is the (not too informative) code history list.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20431343 Sun, 04 May 2008 19:15:41 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20431264 anon :
Grohgreq-

Thanks for the feedback. The listings and acronyms are overwhelming! I work as an electro-optics engineer on complex computer controlled systems. At least we have manuals that give us a chance to interpret the error codes.

I'll bet there are only a very few people working for Hughesnet that really understand it all.

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20431264 Sun, 04 May 2008 18:50:42 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20430336 grohgreg : Your 70 to 76 is not an unusual swing in RSL. But that load of crap you got from India is just that - crap. The red Xs do in fact point to specific parameters that have exceeded threshold limits. Unfortunately, Hughes doesn't even make a TOKEN attempt to educate customers (or Level I/II support) in what the hell they actually mean.

The ones that have a (N) suffix - you can't do a thing about them. They indicate an issue - usually temporary - at your NOC. The others must be watched and analyzed for patterns. Occasional red Xs can often just be written off. Repeated red Xs for the same thing day after day - bear further investigation (and hopefully interpretation).

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20430336 Sun, 04 May 2008 14:41:19 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20429784 anon : nkynative-

FYI, my signal strength fluctuates between 70 and 76. At first I though this might be daily heat loading on the antenna mount, but the fluctuations do not seem to correlate to any particular time of day. I have a ground pole mount set in concrete with two braces attached to my house. The antenna is double grounded, both to the phone system ground and to a copper rod pounded into the ground. My cross pole value is currently 68.

I called customer support in India and was told not to worry about the red Xs on the diagnostic page. The lady that I talked to said they were not reliable and really didn't mean anything!

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20429784 Sun, 04 May 2008 11:47:18 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20429158 grohgreg : That's a very very strong indicator that your pointing angles are becoming compromised. Do you have a pole mount? wall mount? roof mount?

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20429158 Sun, 04 May 2008 07:37:04 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20429130 nkynative : Thanks, Rich.

I am on SatMex 5, 970 MHz, so does not seem to be limited to one satellite or gateway. For several months now, there has been a substantial decrease in signal strength on my setup, maybe that has something to do with it.

My "red Xs" show up intermittently as well, regardless of the weather condition at my end.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20429130 Sun, 04 May 2008 07:14:50 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428630 grohgreg :
said by rloose :

I get the diagnostic red Xs during perfectly clear weather. I get them every few hours both day and night.
Without knowing WHICH statistics generate the red Xs - and under what conditions - that statement unfortunately carries no meaning. Many of the statistical categories for example, indicate a problem at the NOC - the ones that are indicated with (N) for example. Not a dang thing you can do about'em either, except wait for it to clear up at the other end.

//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428630 Sun, 04 May 2008 00:27:18 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428253 anon : I get the diagnostic red Xs during perfectly clear weather. I get them every few hours both day and night. As mentioned they are most frequent during peak usage hours. I'm in southern New Mexico where April is our maximum dry month. We have had mostly clear skies since February. This red X business started last December. Before then, it was all green checkmarks. I'm on IA6 at 93 west. I've heard other people are having problems with this satellite.

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20428253 Sat, 03 May 2008 22:41:19 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426423 grohgreg :
said by nkynative See Profile :

According to the diagnostics page, I frequently have downlink problems. I pasted a typical problem report below. Can anyone explain what is going on?
Hopefully you understand that the data you uploaded in your post is only a one hour snapshot. It's extremely difficult to diagnose an issue from ONE such snapshot.

You used the word "frequently". Can you associate that frequency with rain and/or wind? I ask this because - on clear days/nights - my diagnostics page is 100% green checks. Short of issues at my NOC, the majority red Xs show up when the weather goes bad here - like last night.

//greg//
--
HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426423 Sat, 03 May 2008 15:11:15 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426167 DoctorDoom : You're not alone. Click for full size.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20426167 Sat, 03 May 2008 14:13:01 EDT Re: [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425331 anon : Yep-

I have the same issue. I've seeen a rough correlation between the downlink red X's and much slower speed tests. I've asked this question in other forums and never received any feedback. It would seem that the "no frame info" would be a problem from the satellite or the NOC, and not from my system. I get more red X's during peak usage times. They don't show up as much between midnight and 6 am.

Rich]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20425331 Sat, 03 May 2008 10:22:07 EDT [HN7000S] Frequent Downlink "X" marks on Diagnostics page http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20413413 nkynative : According to the diagnostics page, I frequently have downlink problems. I pasted a typical problem report below. Can anyone explain what is going on?

Thanks!
-

--------------------------------------------------------------
System Level Diagnostics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Monitoring interval WED APR 30 21:11:37 2008 - WED APR 30 21:16:37 2008
Problem(s) Detected [* - Triggering Statistic(s)] Downlink
Overall BAD
Transport MARGINAL
PEP BAD
---------------------------------------------------------------
Transport Layer Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Status MARGINAL
No frame info 306(23.39%) MARGINAL
ACM Fragmentation Error 14(4.64%) MARGINAL
SMA Reset Error 0 INFO
ACM MODCOD Mismatch (Higher) 0 INFO
ACM MODCOD Mismatch (Lower) 0 INFO
Retx count to stream ACK ratio 6(0.61%) MARGINAL
TX CODE COUNTS 0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0 INFO
TX CODE OUTAGE DURATION 0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0 INFO
---------------------------------------------------------------
PEP Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Status BAD
Tx SACKs 73(4.16%) BAD *
---------------------------------------------------------------
Traffic Activity
---------------------------------------------------------------
Interface Bytes Packets Rate Activity
LAN Rx 243.49K 2120 6.49Kbps TYPICAL
Uplink 33.87K 477 0.90Kbps TYPICAL
Downlink 1.55M 3221 41.27Kbps TYPICAL
LAN Tx 1.81M 2649 48.17Kbps TYPICAL

---------------------------------------------------------------
Web Traffic Response Time Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Monitoring interval WED APR 30 21:11:37 2008 - WED APR 30 21:16:37 2008
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response received from TPS |Response received from prefetch cache |Response received from bypass proxy (interactive) |Response received from bypass proxy (bulk) |Response received from web/proxy server (interactive) |Response received from web/proxy server (bulk) |Response received from other |
URLs: 243 |URLs: 85 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |URLs: 0 |
Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |Interval Start(ms) Interval End(ms) URLs(%) |
0 2000 106(43.62%) |0 100 77(90.59%) |0 1000 0(0.00%) |0 5000 0(0.00%) |0 1000 0(0.00%) |0 5000 0(0.00%) |0 1000 0(0.00%) |
2000 4000 106(43.62%) |100 200 4(4.71%) |1000 2000 0(0.00%) |5000 10000 0(0.00%) |1000 2000 0(0.00%) |5000 10000 0(0.00%) |1000 2000 0(0.00%) |
4000 6000 29(11.93%) |200 300 1(1.18%) |2000 3000 0(0.00%) |10000 15000 0(0.00%) |2000 3000 0(0.00%) |10000 15000 0(0.00%) |2000 3000 0(0.00%) |
6000 8000 0(0.00%) |300 400 0(0.00%) |3000 4000 0(0.00%) |15000 20000 0(0.00%) |3000 4000 0(0.00%) |15000 20000 0(0.00%) |3000 4000 0(0.00%) |
8000 10000 0(0.00%) |400 500 0(0.00%) |4000 5000 0(0.00%) |20000 25000 0(0.00%) |4000 5000 0(0.00%) |20000 25000 0(0.00%) |4000 5000 0(0.00%) |
10000 12000 0(0.00%) |500 600 0(0.00%) |5000 6000 0(0.00%) |25000 30000 0(0.00%) |5000 6000 0(0.00%) |25000 30000 0(0.00%) |5000 6000 0(0.00%) |
12000 14000 0(0.00%) |600 700 0(0.00%) |6000 7000 0(0.00%) |30000 35000 0(0.00%) |6000 7000 0(0.00%) |30000 35000 0(0.00%) |6000 7000 0(0.00%) |
14000 16000 0(0.00%) |700 800 0(0.00%) |7000 8000 0(0.00%) |35000 40000 0(0.00%) |7000 8000 0(0.00%) |35000 40000 0(0.00%) |7000 8000 0(0.00%) |
16000 18000 1(0.41%) |800 900 0(0.00%) |8000 9000 0(0.00%) |40000 45000 0(0.00%) |8000 9000 0(0.00%) |40000 45000 0(0.00%) |8000 9000 0(0.00%) |
18000 4294967295 1(0.41%) |900 4294967295 3(3.53%) |9000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |45000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |9000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |45000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |9000 4294967295 0(0.00%) |]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20413413 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:31:03 EDT