GunnarDanne
join:2002-12-02
Crown City, OH
| reply to Eatmeingreek
Re: Is it time to give ATI another look?
I always used the driver from ATI and it was always a pain to get it to work. And even if I got the driver to work, the control panel or any of that stuff never did. That was with a 9200 and a 9800 pro. I do remember never getting anything to work with certain distros. I think Mandrake was one and Fedora might have been another. Suse worked. Slackware worked. Gentoo maybe, but that was a long time ago. |
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Vampirefo
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-11
Huntington, WV
 ·Comcast
| reply to Eatmeingreek
[vampirefo@vampirefo ~]$ X -version
X Window System Version 1.3.0
Release Date: 19 April 2007
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 1.3
Build Operating System: UNKNOWN
Current Operating System: Linux vampirefo 2.6.22.15.tex3 #1 SMP Mon Feb 11 13:27:43 CST 2008 i686
Build Date: 14 February 2008
Before reporting problems, check »wiki.x.org
to make sure that you have the latest version.
Module Loader present
ati card 9550
--
Best RegardsVampirefo |
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Joe Blow
@cableone.net | reply to Joe Blow
That should read: That's the error I got every time in 7.3 and 7.1, and the performance.... |
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Joe Blow
@cableone.net
| reply to Vampirefo
said by Vampirefo  :ATI drivers work well for me the ones downloaded from ati.com that is. What version of Xorg do you run, and what card? There is a major conflict between the ATI drivers and Xorg 7.3. In my case, apparently, it extends to Xorg 7.1 too because the Xorg log files showed that the glx module wasn't loaded because the version of Xorg couldn't be determined. That's the error I got every time in 7.3 and the performance was so slow in both versions that the computer was unusable for all practical purposes. It as a hair faster with 7.1, but not by much. When you can maximize a window and it moves so slowly you can watch it grow into place the graphics performance is terrible. |
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Vampirefo
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-11
Huntington, WV | reply to Eatmeingreek
ATI drivers work well for me the ones downloaded from ati.com that is.
--
Best RegardsVampirefo |
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Joe Blow
@cableone.net
| reply to Eatmeingreek
said by Eatmeingreek :Nvidia drivers work for me on AMD64 using Gentoo's 2.6.24-gentoo-r7 kernel. Driver version 169.09-r1. They work for me in Debian, if I run a 64-bit userland too. However, I really need to run a 32-bit userland because of what I use the machine for--it's a testing lab for our production machines so I have to have the same environment. |
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Eatmeingreek
Gentard
join:2001-06-29
San Francisco, CA | reply to Joe Blow
Nvidia drivers work for me on AMD64 using Gentoo's 2.6.24-gentoo-r7 kernel. Driver version 169.09-r1.
--
"Be safe be suspicious" |
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Eatmeingreek
Gentard
join:2001-06-29
San Francisco, CA
| reply to EUS
said by EUS :After being burned by ATI three times now, (9800 is the last card purchased from ATI, but current laptop has one, and it still bites), I'm sticking with nvidia until ATI proves themselves in real life, not just through PR. I'm feelin' you, believe me. I listened to their lies before and got burned to the tune of more than $300. I think this time is different 'cause the noise is coming from the open-source developers of the radeonhd driver, and not from ATI's marketing department.
--
"Be safe be suspicious" |
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EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Montreal, QC
clubs:  | reply to Joe Blow
The 2.6.22-3-amd64 kernel is what I'm using until something changes in this driver fiasco. |
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Joe Blow
@cableone.net
| reply to EUS
said by EUS :said by Joe Blow :
I may donate the card. I hadn't thought about that option.
I hadn't realized that NVidia was going to just leave the nv problems unfixed. That really sucks. Especially since I can't get Nvidia drivers to compile with the 2.6.24-1-amd64 kernel. Module-assistant fails and so does the NVidia installer.
This is the exact reason I'm not running that kernel. But isn't the next kernel release going to "fix" this issue? After being burned by ATI three times now, (9800 is the last card purchased from ATI, but current laptop has one, and it still bites), I'm sticking with nvidia until ATI proves themselves in real life, not just through PR. I'm pretty much stuck with it. I'm running a dual-core amd cpu and have 8 gigs of ram, which I need for what I'm doing. The 486 only supports 1 gig of ram and I've tried the -686-bigmem kernel and it's way too slow. |
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EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Montreal, QC
clubs:
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to Eatmeingreek
said by Joe Blow :
I may donate the card. I hadn't thought about that option.
I hadn't realized that NVidia was going to just leave the nv problems unfixed. That really sucks. Especially since I can't get Nvidia drivers to compile with the 2.6.24-1-amd64 kernel. Module-assistant fails and so does the NVidia installer.
This is the exact reason I'm not running that kernel. But isn't the next kernel release going to "fix" this issue?
After being burned by ATI three times now, (9800 is the last card purchased from ATI, but current laptop has one, and it still bites), I'm sticking with nvidia until ATI proves themselves in real life, not just through PR.
--
~ Project Hope ~ |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| reply to joako
said by joako :None of these worked with the RAID controller on my SB700-based mainboard. Actually I tried two boards. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the built-in RAID controllers in nvidia and ati chipsets are not supported on the linux kernels.
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * |
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Joe Blow
@cableone.net
| reply to Eatmeingreek
said by Eatmeingreek :It looks like it's still too soon, but I still expect things to improve. You should consider donating your card to one of the radeonhd developers if you're just going to give it away. I'm thinking about buying a card to help with testing the improved drivers. FWIW, 2D performance in the new nVidia cards using the open-source "nv" driver sucks. nVidia developers support the nv driver and they have said that those problems will remain unfixed. The nv driver is written to obfuscate its workings, so it's unlikely anyone else will be able to fix it. This is a really poor showing by nVidia. I may donate the card. I hadn't thought about that option.
I hadn't realized that NVidia was going to just leave the nv problems unfixed. That really sucks. Especially since I can't get Nvidia drivers to compile with the 2.6.24-1-amd64 kernel. Module-assistant fails and so does the NVidia installer. |
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Joe Blow
@cableone.net
| reply to alamarco
said by alamarco :said by Joe Blow :said by alamarco :My experience with older cards and the ATi fglrx have been good. Currently with my laptop and the Radeon Xpress 200M the drivers install painlessly and most options work in xorg.conf. From the comments here, it seems the drivers are problematic with newer cards. I have a HP Pavilion with a Turion and the 200M card. It's been very problematic. I tried for several iterations of ATI's drivers to try to get them to work and I'd get a black screen and the cpu would go into a race condition. It would lock up the system and overheat the cpu within a minute or so if I didn't hit the power button. Even after they finally--it took them more than a year--got that problem fixed installing the drivers meant I couldn't get to a console. It took ATI more than two years to get their drivers to work from the time I first tried them. Once they at least worked they still consume approximately 3 times the cpu resources the open source drivers do when playing a video. I've had the laptop 3 years and been playing with the drivers for that entire amount time and I still can't say ATI's drivers for the 200M are worth anything. They are more of a resource hog and won't work with Compiz. I just don't see how that's acceptable performance from a driver. They do work with Compiz. When I tried Ubuntu they worked perfectly fine with no lag what so ever. The latest drivers even support AIGX (spelling) so there is no need for XGL (unless I'm mistaken). The black screen bug had a solution, so even though ATi didn't fix it promptly I don't call this an important bug. Right now the drivers work near 100% for the Radeon Xpress 200M. The only problem, that which you have mentioned, is with going back to the console. It doesn't crash, as you can still type to startx again, but you can't see anything. If you use a login manager such as KDM or GDM it isn't even an issue as they will restart X themselves. The 200M only works in some hardware configurations with Compiz. It does not work in mine. I've spent days researching and implementing every fix I could find and I've never gotten it to work.
It's like the BCM43xx module. My laptop has the 4318 Broadcom wireless chip and do you think I can use the open source module? Not a chance. It crashes my wireless router, it gets even worse reception than the card does using ndiswrapper, and I can't use any kind of security with it.
Hmmmm.... The black screen bug would overheat the cpu and my laptop would shut down the overheat sensors, it made my laptop completely unusable, and it took ATI well over a year to fix it. And you call that an unimportant bug? I'd hate to see your idea of an important bug. If an overheat sensor would have failed it would have turned my laptop into a boat anchor. I call that a pretty major bug. |
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jdong
Eat A Beaver, Save A Tree.
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Rochester, MI
clubs:
| reply to alamarco
said by alamarco :They do work with Compiz. When I tried Ubuntu they worked perfectly fine with no lag what so ever. The latest drivers even support AIGX (spelling) so there is no need for XGL (unless I'm mistaken). On some cards, with some moon phases. Read the Phoronix or Ubuntu forum problem reports and you'll find still plenty of people who seem to not be able to get it to work reliably no matter what.
For me, everything works EXCEPT windowed accelerated content (xvideo, opengl), flickers like hell... I'll excuse them and let them blame it on DRI1's inferior overlay-compositing abilities, but I am willing to bet it'll take them 5 years to transisition to DRI2 also, given their slow-as-molasses reaction to the 2.6 kernel, Xorg 7, and AIGLX.
quote:
The black screen bug had a solution, so even though ATi didn't fix it promptly I don't call this an important bug. Right now the drivers work near 100% for the Radeon Xpress 200M. The only problem, that which you have mentioned, is with going back to the console. It doesn't crash, as you can still type to startx again, but you can't see anything. If you use a login manager such as KDM or GDM it isn't even an issue as they will restart X themselves.
Untrue. There are several deadlocks that cause the kernel to oops or kernel to hang from console switching. A script on my system that performs 1000 chvt's in a row is guaranteed to lock up my system currently.
Also, switching away from X and doing a /etc/init.d/gdm stop also hangs my display (needs to SSH in to do a proper shutdown, VBE posting or restarting X has no effect)
They've improved, YES, but it's far from an ideal experience.
--
Ubuntu MOTU Developer and Forums Council |
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alamarco
o.O
join:2003-06-18
Windsor, ON
clubs:
| reply to Joe Blow
said by Joe Blow :said by alamarco :My experience with older cards and the ATi fglrx have been good. Currently with my laptop and the Radeon Xpress 200M the drivers install painlessly and most options work in xorg.conf. From the comments here, it seems the drivers are problematic with newer cards. I have a HP Pavilion with a Turion and the 200M card. It's been very problematic. I tried for several iterations of ATI's drivers to try to get them to work and I'd get a black screen and the cpu would go into a race condition. It would lock up the system and overheat the cpu within a minute or so if I didn't hit the power button. Even after they finally--it took them more than a year--got that problem fixed installing the drivers meant I couldn't get to a console. It took ATI more than two years to get their drivers to work from the time I first tried them. Once they at least worked they still consume approximately 3 times the cpu resources the open source drivers do when playing a video. I've had the laptop 3 years and been playing with the drivers for that entire amount time and I still can't say ATI's drivers for the 200M are worth anything. They are more of a resource hog and won't work with Compiz. I just don't see how that's acceptable performance from a driver. They do work with Compiz. When I tried Ubuntu they worked perfectly fine with no lag what so ever. The latest drivers even support AIGX (spelling) so there is no need for XGL (unless I'm mistaken).
The black screen bug had a solution, so even though ATi didn't fix it promptly I don't call this an important bug. Right now the drivers work near 100% for the Radeon Xpress 200M. The only problem, that which you have mentioned, is with going back to the console. It doesn't crash, as you can still type to startx again, but you can't see anything. If you use a login manager such as KDM or GDM it isn't even an issue as they will restart X themselves. |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
4 edits | reply to drjim
No what I meant was no FINACIAL incentive to make sure they work with Linux.... vs WIN they are likely getting kickbacks if not some support from.
Of course that could maybe easily change if Linux folks told ATI love your card on the OS from hell WIN, and would like to support you and buy you product on LINUX... unfortunately my (Dell ground up) Linux PC came with your card and isn't working right... want a future customer after this your self imposed of ignoring hell?... get your act together!!!
With Mac staying the 10% they have always been (for propiatary big buck reasons) But WIN loosing BIG ground to Linux... Used to be 85% plus... now well down into the lower 70's on many counts.
And I have verified this with my own website OS hit counts. (Other.. like there are that many Web TV's, other odd things still out there?)... likely just non browser ID'd linux/unix plus the ones that are... and in excess of the forever static (and historic 8-10%) Mac numbers, and again that GUESS WHO share growing all the time and WIN shrinking all the time, again Mac staying thier dihard 8-10%.... but a very substantial 25-30% AND GROWING out of WIN's share... not just this, but every month other plus id'd Linux gets a little bigger and WIN gets a little smaller.
AND THAT IS THE OTHER INTERESTING THING IT SEEMS TO BE PASSING just THE TECHNO GEEKS like HERE...AND ACTUALY PASSING INTO THE MAINSTREAM now, it has become much less command line and much more Windows GUI like. Ubuntu, etc...
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
clubs: | reply to Hayward
Lazy? Most of the people who write the Open Source drivers are UN-paid volunteers. That hardly qualifies as "lazy".....
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering. |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
2 edits | reply to Eatmeingreek
said by Eatmeingreek :I am no fan of ATI's graphics hardware, Well ATI worked qite well with WIN (buddy buddies), maybe another thing with Linux... to lazy to do drivers...
And maybe again just becaise of that... Mac is the 10% of market it always has been but Linux has made BIG inroads on the M$ share.
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Eatmeingreek
Gentard
join:2001-06-29
San Francisco, CA
| reply to Joe Blow
It looks like it's still too soon, but I still expect things to improve. You should consider donating your card to one of the radeonhd developers if you're just going to give it away.
I'm thinking about buying a card to help with testing the improved drivers.
FWIW, 2D performance in the new nVidia cards using the open-source "nv" driver sucks. nVidia developers support the nv driver and they have said that those problems will remain unfixed. The nv driver is written to obfuscate its workings, so it's unlikely anyone else will be able to fix it. This is a really poor showing by nVidia.
--
"Be safe be suspicious" |
|
