spy1
Welcome to Amerika
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join:2002-06-24
Charlotte, NC
| Stop the FISA "back-room" deal
Late Friday night, the ACLU caught wind of a dangerous backroom deal brewing. The “deal” would rush a House vote that would push through a dangerous sellout on government spying powers, possibly in the next few days.
We need you to immediately contact your member of Congress. Let your representative know you’re watching and expect him or her to stand firm. That means no immunity for lawbreaking phone and internet companies, and no spying on Americans without a warrant.
Let your member of Congress know you’re watching!
»action.aclu.org/site/R?i=7TTRrjD···hS5MiSQ..
Back in February, the House stood up to President Bush’s fear-mongering tactics by letting the so-called “Protect America Act” expire. This ill-named bill eviscerated the protections of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and violated the constitutional rights of Americans.
This breakthrough victory for civil liberties came only because you and other ACLU activists refused to yield. Because of your emails and phone calls, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer rallied defenders of freedom to hold their ground.
But now, word comes that House leadership may be working hand-in-hand with Senator Jay Rockefeller, the Democratic Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, who has spearheaded efforts to give immunity to law-breaking phone companies that provided mountains of customer data to the government without warrants.
As discussions continue, it’s critical that House leadership avoid buckling to pressure from the White House or Senator Rockefeller at all costs. House leadership -- and every representative -- need to draw a line in the sand by rejecting any compromise that would undo the achievement we fought so hard for in February.
Make no mistake: any "compromise" that is acceptable to Senator Rockefeller and the President will undoubtedly let lawbreakers off the hook and seriously put at risk -- or even end -- lawsuits that may be the only way to get to the bottom of crimes that were committed by phone companies and Bush administration officials.
Demand that the House Stand Firm on FISA!
»action.aclu.org/site/R?i=j-fmoUU···3cezCrQ..
Let’s make it clear. We won’t tolerate:
Backroom deals on telecom immunity. Lawsuits may be our last chance to expose the truth about illegal spying activities by telecom companies and the Bush administration.
Backroom deals that let election year fear-mongering steal our freedom and undermine the rule of law.
Backroom deals that give Bush new powers to spy on Americans without a warrant.
With your help, we have worked relentlessly to protect freedom in the long-running FISA debate. Now, we need to make sure all that work isn’t undone by backroom deals. So, please, urge your representative to stand firm.
»action.aclu.org/site/R?i=A8_TZug···17OIWiQ..
Let’s make sure every member of Congress knows how proud we are that the House has stood its ground and how outraged we will be if our representatives and House leadership reverse themselves now.
Please act quickly. |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| Will Blue Dogs get the FISA bill on the floor?
»hotair.com/archives/2008/05/01/w···e-floor/
House GOP targets Carney on FISA
»thehill.com/leading-the-news/hou···-02.html |
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Its a Secret
C.Y.A.
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join:2008-02-23
Calgary, AB
 ·Shaw
| reply to spy1
said by spy1  :Let your member of Congress know you’re watching! Signed, sealed, and delivered from my US address.
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 7th, @01:27PM
| reply to spy1
Hey Pete,
Re this gem..
»Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up!
Here is one to put you seriously in touch with the real world.
US: Ex-Guantanamo prisoner carried out Iraq suicide attack
»doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008···in-iraq/
And finally, we talked about FISA. That's the ability for our intelligence folks and folks on the front line of protecting America to have the tools necessary to stop al Qaeda from attacking us. And the fact that the Democrat leadership refuses to let this vote come to the floor is bad for our national security. This vote will pass -- this bill would pass. It has passed the Senate; will pass the House, thanks to the leadership of the members up here, as well as discerning Democrats. And yet the leadership refuses to let it come up. And the country is at greater risk as a result of not having a modernized FISA bill.
»www.standardnewswire.com/news/905862685.html
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
edit:
May 7th, @02:26PM
| said by Name Game :That's the ability for our intelligence folks and folks on the front line of protecting America to have the tools necessary to stop al Qaeda from attacking us. It appears we have all the (anti-freedom, anti-privacy, anti-constitutional) tools we already need. Al Queda hasn't attacked us in seven years.
The fact of the matter, is that the US Government is free to collect all the surveillance it wants (and much more than it needs) on foreign terrorists already. It also has a pretty damn good arsenal of tools to spy on American citizens, as well.
I would have to think that anyone that doesn't realize what really is at stake here is:
- uneducated on the topic
- naive
- hoodwinked
Spy1 - whom you suggested 'needs to get in touch with the real world' - know a hell of a lot more about what is currently legal, what is currently illegal, and the real goals of this bill. The real goal of this bill is to cover up the unconstitutional, illegal, and impeachable offenses committed against our freedom by the Bush Administration.
Compare what the Administration is saying about the need and reasons for this bill; and you will see it is based on blatant lies and disinformation. Blindly believing the administration's spin - as you are - is foolish and dangerous. Unfortunately, most of Congress is focused on re-election, if they ever put enough focus into these bills at all. Lets not forget that we don't need the US Government operating like Stalin's secret police or the East German Stasi. Our god-given rights - including the right to privacy - are what separate us from terrorists and dictators. Lets keep it that way. I suggest that you spend a few minutes of your time reading this article, and then seriously think about what you are advocating:
»The Eternal Value of Privacy |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| Everytime the ACLU breaks wind one of these 'call your do nothing Congressman' threads comes up..they always have a twist to them.
Then some pointy finger guy like you starts throwing around gems of their wisdoms like
"Name Game, with regards to this subject you are either:
- uneducated
- naive
- hoodwinked"
And then blames all their problems on the Administration and crawls out of the corner with " Stalin's secret police or the East German Stasi"
You don't insult me..  far from it..you verbally attack because it makes you feel what your write has more meaning.
But it still stinks as you grovel in your brand of Patriotism.
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
edit:
May 7th, @02:26PM
| reply to spy1
Very impressive - taking the high ground, and seriously covering the subject. Do elaborate on any of your points (if they are indeed yours). Perhaps explain to us how you know that any of your following statements are true:
- the ability for our intelligence folks and folks on the front line of protecting America to have the tools necessary to stop al Qaeda from attacking us.
- And the country is at greater risk as a result of not having a modernized FISA bill.
- that the Democrat leadership refuses to let this vote come to the floor is bad for our national security.
or even how you've come to take this as being true:
- Ex-Guantanamo Inmate Blows Himself Up in Iraq
Enlighten us. Please do. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
edit:
May 7th, @02:27PM
| reply to spy1
I would bet any amount, that had our administration not had the wisdom to invade Iraq in the fist place, that Ex-Guantanamo Inmate Blows Himself Up in Iraq would have never have happened.
For good measure, explain how changing the FISA laws is even remotely connected, or would have helped. |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| Since you are replying to Pete..I will let him play in your foxhole. And whoever else 'US' is that feels 'enlighten'. You connect dots like a broken record..
It always amazes me when one writer calls himself "US"..he always has a "Them" to blame all the problems on. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
edit:
May 7th, @02:47PM
| said by Name Game :Since you are replying to Pete... I knew you must have a really good reason for why you wouldn't be willing to elaborate on the any of ideas you've generously shared with us.
Read it: »The Eternal Value of Privacy |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| said by whizkid3 :said by Name Game :Since you are replying to Pete... I knew you must have a really good reason for why you wouldn't be willing to elaborate on the any of ideas you've generously shared with us. Read it: » The Eternal Value of Privacy »news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080507/ap_···e_bomber
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
| quote:
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - A Kuwaiti freed from Guantanamo Bay carried out a suicide car bombing recently in Iraq, the U.S. military said Wednesday...
OK, that's one source. Do you have an independent source confirming the story? I'd take anything reported by the US military in Iraq with a grain of salt. It has been widely reported that they have been planting false stories. |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
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Spin it like you want..fact is innocent people left this world when Abdallah Salih al-Ajmi pulled the plug..I value human life no matter where crackpots do their business. As you struggle to define the laws and rights that protect you and feel it is your birthright..The Protect America Act will still provide our intelligence community essential tools to acquire important information about terrorists who want to harm America, permits our intelligence professionals to more effectively collect foreign intelligence information on targets in foreign lands, and modernize FISA. The Protect America Act of 2007 (Pub.L. 110-55, S. 1927) was then signed into law by George W. Bush on 2007-08-05.
Congress enacted the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) in 1978 a U.S. federal law prescribing procedures for the physical and electronic surveillance and collection of "foreign intelligence information" between "foreign powers" and "agents of foreign powers" (which may include American citizens and permanent residents engaged in espionage and violating U.S. law.
"In February, 2008, the Senate passed the version of the new FISA that would allow telecom companies immunity. On March 13, 2008, the U.S. House of Representatives held a "secret session" to discuss related infomation. On March 14, the House passed a bill 213-197 that would not grant the immunity, not enough for the 2/3 majority required to override a Presidential veto. The Senate and House bills are compared and contrasted in a February 8, 2008 report from the Congressional Research Service."
»209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:qk···=1&gl=us
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_In···ance_Act
This thread is asking people to send some canned letter to their Congressmen based upon rhetoric from the ACLU and the news media. You keep on posting some link propoganda you want people to read.
Now I have posted a link to the ACTUAL difference between the version " compared and contrasted. " I am sure you have not read it..and doubt spy1 has either. I have..back when it was published in Feb. That in fact is the only issue that is left unresolved and, in fact, what was passed and agreed to by the Senate and House on the other issues are stronger than they were before. So I can assure you I am not..
- uneducated on the topic
- naive
- hoodwinked
Just so everyone understands....
Abdullah al-Ajmi took part in an attack in Mosul on 29 April that killed several people.
Ajmi and two other Kuwaitis blew up two explosive-packed vehicles next to Iraqi security forces, media reports say.
The US transferred Ajmi to Kuwaiti custody from Guantanamo Bay in 2005.
He was later acquitted by a Kuwaiti court of terrorism charges.
( you might want to check out why they were acquitted)
According to Kuwaiti and pan-Arab media reports, Ajmi and his two alleged accomplices, Nasir al-Dawsari and Badr al-Harbi, were able to leave Kuwait a month ago without alerting the attention of the authorities because they had wrongly been issued new passports.
They then travelled to Syria, where Ajmi is reported to have told his family of his intentions, before heading onto Iraq.
The families of Ajmi and Harbi reportedly later received anonymous calls informing them that the men had died in Iraq.
»news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7388762.stm
And all the crap you might read in the news about him now...These are the facts and the lies he told in your "courts". and his review process. He praised America..even for locking him up.
Abdallah Saleh Ali Al Ajmi
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdallah_S···_Al_Ajmi
So read his history..and believe it..and just think..those 4 bleeding hearts lawyers who defended him and his lies just might have put him right in your neighborhood if it was not for the military and the Intelligence gathering network that you want to cripple as you tell everyone they have enough power as far as you are concerned.
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
edit:
May 8th, @04:25PM
| umm.....what part of the "FISA" bill is not working? nothing has changed, if I am not mistaken, even though it has sunsetted, it is still good for another year. The ONLY complaint the whithouse gives is that they CAN'T get blanket immunity for the phone companies that acted ILLEGALLY. Actually if we weren't in Iraq, there wouldn't be a suicide bomber there. We created the problem, there was no verifiable accounts of alqueda there before we got there. Before I spent one of my 2 tours in Vietnam, we were inundated with the same crap. If southeast asia falls, so will the rest of the world. It was bull$hit then as this war is. This one doesn't even pass the smell test. All you lap dogs for this administration need to take a deep breath. And oh yea I am a republican
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james1
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| reply to Name Game
Yeah, if I was locked up for years for no reason, I'd LOVE the U.S. so much.
Don't you idiots realize you're MAKING terrorists by screwing around over there. |
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Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Sterling Heights, MI
| said by james1 :Yeah, if I was locked up for years for no reason, I'd LOVE the U.S. so much. Don't you idiots realize you're MAKING terrorists by screwing around over there. You mean locked up for over four years with no hope of release. Hmm, isn't this what we get on other countries for? You can't take the moral high ground when you're down in the mud.
Like woody7 , I'm ex-military, different era. You don't realize how much your freedom is worth until you lose it. The problem is most American's have never been turned into a piece of government property. (Getting a sun burn in the military can be punished as damage to government property, for those that didn't know)
The unfortunate problem facing our next president, as Bush has already given up, is getting our troop out of the middle east.
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| reply to james1
said by james1 :Yeah, if I was locked up for years for no reason, I'd LOVE the U.S. so much. Don't you idiots realize you're MAKING terrorists by screwing around over there. Where have you been since 66'
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Canada
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
edit:
May 8th, @07:28PM
| reply to spy1
it's tough for me to read through all this...
the fact is, FISA was originally enacted to make secret wiretapping of US citizens legal. the way it made it legal was by putting in rules of conduct that assured the courts and citizens that constitutional boundaries were at least glanced at during the process.
note that i'm talking about constitutional boundaries, not statutory boundaries. these limits can only be changed (theoretically) by an amendment to the constitution, any other change is most likely illegitimate.
"modernizing" FISA sounds a lot like amending the constitution, because FISA was seen as pretty much right up against the furthest reaches of american law.
here's one great argument against changing FISA: as far as the 911 attacks are concerned, we already had all the data, everything that should have triggered a timely investigation, or was already triggering an investigation, but no-one moved fast enough once they had the information. it had nothing to do with FISA or wiretapping concerns, it had a whole lot more to do with complacency and incompetence. a new FISA wouldn't have made anything different, by itself, and there's no good showing that it makes a difference now.
i think the only real argument for updating FISA is that it's a cheaper solution to border control... but really, all that seems to show is that FISA is irrelevant without strong border control, and searches at the borders can already be pretty extreme, constitutionally. it's a red herring argument to use border insecurity as a reason to bump FISA.
so, why do we care that we're giving up a 1/3 century old interpretation of privacy?
well, first and foremost, it means that we're having our way of life dictated to us by terrorists.
second, we have the largest, most populated (per capita) prison system in the world. we don't seem to know how to deal with wrongdoers, or we don't know how to differentiate between those that should be in prison and those that shouldn't, and even given how many we incarcerate, it's questionable how much safer we make things outside of prison. either way, changing FISA is one way to extend an already suspect penal system.
third, while this extension clearly brings to bear various profound constitutional questions, there's a general feeling that the bill is being pushed through MAINLY by the commercial interests of the telco lobby. seems pretty crappy to let go of some constitutional liberties just because ATT and Verizon don't want to get sued because they broke their own privacy laws (TOS).
one of the great SCOTUS lines is this: "the constitution is not a suicide pact, but ..." and each time it's been used, the courts recognized that there are limits that just can't be crossed without an amendment, regardless of the argument for timely response for public safety. The point here is that yeah, it's not a suicide pact, but you can't just erase the 4th amendment (among other rights) by pointing at bogymen (which originated, incidentally, as a way to divert blame for general incompetence).
why anyone would believe the current administration's hand-wavey "we can't show you how, but it's necessary" statements after the circumstances of entering Iraq is beyond me. If it were even a different administration, then you'd have some leg to stand on to believe that ok, maybe they really are correct and they need this to keep us safe... but given that this is the same exact group that 1) went into Iraq with faulty info, and 2) blatantly disregarded the constitution so often and to such detriment before... how can you possibly believe anything they say without some strong corroborating evidence?
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Name Game
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North Myrtle Beach, SC
| reply to woody7
said by woody7 : And oh yea I am a republican They are on a list too someplace..but you can take pills for it. |
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| reply to Name Game
Regaardless of anyone's views on this issue, I don't think that wikipedia link has anything to do with the topic.
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