TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service in TekSavvy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20439481 en Fri, 09 Jan 2009 06:52:18 EDT Fri, 09 Jan 2009 06:52:18 EDT Re: Ouch http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20508053 illusion : Actually, I already tidied it up. It was much messier before. After all I've been through, I'm happy that it's connected at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20508053 Mon, 19 May 2008 18:35:31 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20498828 anon : seems bell has been doing alot of shoddy work when it comes to correcting issues that involve resellers of it s services. missed due dates missed appointments etc.

talked to a guy recently...moved over 3 cell phone numbers to rogers from bell....paid bell the penalty and moved on. next thing you know his dsl line goes down. he has been with a small reseller for years needed escalations to bell twice in approx 6 years. in that time was usually 3 or 4 days at tops until a resolution was found. he has been without a dsl light since may 1 still not resolved. all the while he says he has had bell telemarketing like no tomorrow. sound fishy ??? wouldnt put it past bell. since the caip issue re sellers might be getting the shaft. has teksavvy seen anything up with bell resolving issues ???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20498828 Sat, 17 May 2008 17:29:24 EDT Ouch http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20498806 Gokuu : Talk about a 'half-assed' job. Is this a newly built home?

said by illusion See Profile :

Here's the pic of the final setup.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20498806 Sat, 17 May 2008 17:20:30 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20498585 MoreFaxes : This was already documented in my previous message. Teksavvy has no ability to ensure proper installation. They will take your order, forward to Bell, and get an okay from Bell. They have no real status of actual technical work. They will often claim... "according to the record, the job was completed by Bell". They will often have no clue that Bell technicians did not bother to show up.

Their phone home sign up for a brand-new line (ie, not a switch) is totally disastrous. They should send out their own technicians before Bell damages more their reputation.

»Home phone new installation in a multi-dwelling complex]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20498585 Sat, 17 May 2008 16:24:39 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497996 anon : Oh my god, this thread is like deja vu for me. I'm just trying to get a measly dry loop, nothing as complicated as a demarc. But same old runaround bullshit from bell tech's saying they'll come and don't. This can't be coincidental, it must be systemic to the whole process. Unfortunately, I probably won't have as much patience as you and all of this is just not worth the trouble.

I wholeheartedly agree that Teksavvy, as good as their reputation is, is responsible for the satisfaction to their customers that they have taken their payment from at the beginning of the subcription. Though they don't have hands-on action on the copper lines, they can't just sit back while the other party sabotages their business and new subscribers.

And remember, this was included in my original subscription email:

"Please be advised that there will be a $20 or higher charge (from Bell) any time Bell has to do any work on the copper lines once the dry loop DSL service has been activated."

So tag on another twenty bucks everytime you take a day off just to see whether bell shows up to screw you over .... OR NOT!!! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497996 Sat, 17 May 2008 13:25:59 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497358 matt_m : That doesn't seem too tidy...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497358 Sat, 17 May 2008 10:02:28 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497073 illusion : Here's the pic of the final setup.

Demarc done.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497073 Sat, 17 May 2008 08:07:43 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482926 Jean_22 : Okay

But hmm, I don't have that kind of set up home. Videotron's cable is directly going into the "separator" (1 cable in, 8 cable out adapter). Frome what I understood the "in" line of the demarc was plugged into the VoIP modem. I don't see the stree phone line coming in my house anymore and this is what is making me freaked out for the installation cost.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482926 Wed, 14 May 2008 18:06:17 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481195 illusion : For TekSavvy, setting up the Demarc didn't cost anything extra. It's all included in the new line activation fees.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481195 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:51:47 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481051 sbrook : Use a bit of clear silicone caulk over the ends, but DON'T allow it to go beyond a quarter inch into the tube ends. Put a bit of vaseline around the inside of the tube before caulking, but don't get any on the end of the tubes or on the outside of the tube. Apply the caulk so it goes primarily over the ends of the tubes so it adheres to the end and outside of the tube so you can get the plug out if they ever have to replace the wire.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481051 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:24:31 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480999 illusion : Well.. that's what I figured too. I'm going to be plugging in some of those holes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480999 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:16:41 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480938 sbrook : Interestingly those pipes containing the cables are done very poorly since they invite water into them! The pipe ends should all face down so the cables have drip loops or be plugged so that moisture cannot enter the pipes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480938 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:03:55 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480616 illusion : Sure, I'll take a photo of the Demarc tonite when I go home. The guy didn't need to come into the house to set anything up at all. All my internal wiring was done by the company who was doing my alarm system (even the phone jacks). The guy seems to know what he's doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480616 Wed, 14 May 2008 11:07:33 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480579 dgass : As a former Entourage Res I&R Tech I can tell you that new home hook up's, From the bell box to your Demarc (NID) was usually given to the "New" guys. As it is the easiest thing a tech can do. Getting a repair tech however usually your getting an experienced tech. Glad to hear you got the NID installed finally. But I hope you decided to "wire" your own inside wires. It's two (or 4 if you have a 2nd line) connect the Green to green and Red to red. I think Bell used to charge a fee ($$75)for that service and it would take all of 15 seconds to do, since I was already there installing the NID and the underground wire. I think they charged it as a single Jack install. Total time on-site shouldn't have been more then 30 min. Could you post a picture of installed NID? I hope it was done 100% correct.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480579 Wed, 14 May 2008 11:02:16 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20471882 illusion : A Bell technician finally arrived today! The setup was fast, it took roughly 1/10 the time I spent on the phone trying to get one of these near extinct creatures to arrive. But looks like opening a "repair ticket" worked. Maybe from now on TekSavvy should forget about setting up new connections, but just put in repair tickets every time. Just for the books, this is the 4th appointment. I was lucky that my wife was home today. I can't imagine people spending 4 vacation days just to wait for a phone line to be installed. Ridiculous.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20471882 Mon, 12 May 2008 19:24:58 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469173 illusion : Just an update on the telephone limbo. After the 3rd appointment, my demarc is still not setup. Bell keeps telling TekSavvy that the demarc is installed and functional. So TekSavvy have now submitted a repair ticket, and hopefully someone will show up today. I'll let you all know how it goes by tomorrow. And as for the challenge of finding my house. I doubt it's an issue, since my neighbor has his demarc setup already. (He's the other half of my semi). And plus, if the appliance delivery people and the Rogers guy can find my place, I don't see why Bell technicians lack the mental capacity to find my house. I've included a picture of where the demarc SHOULD be if Bell techs have done the job within the past 3 appointments.

The lack of a demarc.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469173 Mon, 12 May 2008 10:51:32 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20459286 anon :
said by illusion See Profile :

Nope, a semi that doesn't have a demarcation point yet (new development).
Maybe there's no street name sign up yet and the Bell/contractor tech can't find you.

Or maybe his map doesn't show where your street is yet - until the street is 'assumed' by the municipality or recognized as a private street by the municipality (some new developments are done that way), it won't be on any map.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20459286 Fri, 09 May 2008 21:31:21 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20445418 ShadPTR :
said by Arbalister See Profile :

said by dbsanfte See Profile :

If the CRTC is serious about competition for Bell, the only way to do this properly is to have the technicians blind as to who is a Bell customer and who is that of a reseller. Because this is stupidly ridiculous.
And they aren't. Do you know that they actually have technicians, on service calls to non-bell DSL customers offering discounted Sympatico rates to the customer? I\ve actually had customers bring me this stuff - a work order with the techs name and employee number, stapled to an ad for Sympatico "friends and family" requiring the employee number to be filled in on it. So, here's the gig...*I* sent the tech out there to fix a problem with Bell's setup. They then use that as a chance to winback the customer. Nice huh?
Pathetic. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20445418 Wed, 07 May 2008 12:13:38 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444659 Arbalister :
said by dbsanfte See Profile :

If the CRTC is serious about competition for Bell, the only way to do this properly is to have the technicians blind as to who is a Bell customer and who is that of a reseller. Because this is stupidly ridiculous.
And they aren't. Do you know that they actually have technicians, on service calls to non-bell DSL customers offering discounted Sympatico rates to the customer? I\ve actually had customers bring me this stuff - a work order with the techs name and employee number, stapled to an ad for Sympatico "friends and family" requiring the employee number to be filled in on it. So, here's the gig...*I* sent the tech out there to fix a problem with Bell's setup. They then use that as a chance to winback the customer. Nice huh?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444659 Wed, 07 May 2008 10:04:29 EDT TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444623 GKC :
said by PeeCee Gamer See Profile :

said by thishastostop :

stop messing around
email kevin krull
cbc.ca
m giest
crtc
globeandmail.com
canoe.ca
ctvnews.ca

Yes, I am sure those people are just sitting by their phones absolutely twitching with eagerness to deal with the next minor customer complaint.
:) ;)Good point...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444623 Wed, 07 May 2008 09:54:50 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444541 illusion : Yup, I'm living at my semi right now. I know for sure that Bell technicians do come around to install demarcs, because I see a few of my neighbors already have it installed. (I guess they signed up with Bell and not a reseller). My frustration is not that the techs don't know what they're doing.. my frustration is with them not showing up at all and "saying" that the job is done. Do they get paid by the job? If so, then someone is making millions "saying" that he's done the job. Sounds like a really good way to make a dishonest living. :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444541 Wed, 07 May 2008 09:32:58 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444276 PeeCee Gamer :
said by thishastostop :

stop messing around
email kevin krull
cbc.ca
m giest
crtc
globeandmail.com
canoe.ca
ctvnews.ca

Yes, I am sure those people are just sitting by their phones absolutely twitching with eagerness to deal with the next minor customer complaint.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444276 Wed, 07 May 2008 08:14:42 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444066 Grappler :
said by illusion See Profile :

Nope, a semi that doesn't have a demarcation point yet (new development).
Are you now living in your semi? Are any of the other residents in the development now there or do they have service?

In developments it is usually up to the developer to set up the utility connections. Hence the companies tend to set aside one or two days to do all connections. Connections for basic utilities are mandatory.

This could be a case of left and right hands in the pot. It does not alleviate the fact that a call was placed but it might explain the frustration that even Teksavvy has to go through.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20444066 Wed, 07 May 2008 06:22:24 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20443372 anon : On the subject of technicians.

Actually, I had a technical matter back when I first moved to my current location.

I went through 3 technicians that clearly had shit for brains. They couldn't find the problem at all.
Finally encountered a technician that actually knew his stuff.

The guy aced the difficulties, and I watched him working. You can tell when a man actually knows what he is doing. For starters, he did everything totally different from the others.

I think if the tech was unaware of your status of who sold you your service wouldn't really make an impact on whether he really knew what he was doing or not.

It's just a pity you can't ask for a technician by name from the pool of men that work an area that obviously get tapped by the operations servicing an area.
Because it would be nice knowing the guy actually knew something.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20443372 Wed, 07 May 2008 00:25:57 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442996 Jean_22 :
said by Guy Incognito :

I had the same problem, it really depends on the Bell tech person who comes. We had our phone scheduled to be installed on the 1st and it was setup today when we finally got a Bell tech who wasn't an idiot. 5 days of heck, then it only took 20 minutes with someone who knows what they are doing.
Something similar happened to me few years ago for videotron's internet. The Internet would cut off randomly some days. They sent like 10 techs before one found the problem. The first 9 were videotron's tech which only changed the modem (they happened to come on days that it was working). Finally, a HS Telecom guy came and he found in 30 minutes that the problem was squirells eating the cable (lol) and fixed it.

Just for information, does it cost something to get the demarc installed?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442996 Tue, 06 May 2008 22:56:31 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442943 anon : I had the same problem, it really depends on the Bell tech person who comes. We had our phone scheduled to be installed on the 1st and it was setup today when we finally got a Bell tech who wasn't an idiot. 5 days of heck, then it only took 20 minutes with someone who knows what they are doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442943 Tue, 06 May 2008 22:48:09 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442482 anon : stop messing around

email
kevin krull
cbc.ca
m giest
crtc
globeandmail.com
canoe.ca
ctvnews.ca

etc

enough with bell fukking around

its getting worse and until we drag bell down in the media nothing is going to change]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442482 Tue, 06 May 2008 21:13:33 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442360 dbsanfte : If the CRTC is serious about competition for Bell, the only way to do this properly is to have the technicians blind as to who is a Bell customer and who is that of a reseller. Because this is stupidly ridiculous.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20442360 Tue, 06 May 2008 20:45:36 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20441358 jfmezei : It is correct to state that when company X (teksavvy in this case) sells a product, then company X is responsible for that service, even if it is subcontracted to some other firm.

When company A subcontracts customer support to company B in India, when a customer is unhappy, his bitch is with company A with whom he has a relationship.

In this particular case, Teksavvy's phone service is brand new and it may take them some time to get the experience on how to deal with Bell and what sort of problems to expect. You may be their first case of a "new" install and they just expected Bell to process the paperwork without problem. Now, they should know better.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20441358 Tue, 06 May 2008 17:33:54 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20441138 illusion : Actually, for my second appointment, the tech WAS suppose to come between 9-12 in the morning, but of course, he/she never showed up. And regarding the address, I've double confirmed that it's the right address. And there's no other street with the same name. Funny thing is that the TekSavvy CSR was able to give me a time range (9-12) for my second appointment, but wasn't able to provide me a time range for the third appointment. (And I'm dealing with the same person in both cases....)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20441138 Tue, 06 May 2008 16:49:51 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440953 bryanviper : Thats weird,

Did you confirm the address of the install? maybe even get them to put in major intersection in the notes just to make sure they are not going to the wrong address that may have a similar name?

I'm Pretty sure this is just the result of a lazy tech from Bell but one thing you may want to try (if its an option) is have them come install it in the morning that way they kinda have to come do it, because if you have it set for the afternoon a tech might say oh this job took longer then i thought and I had no time to install the demarc for the customer or some other lame excuse. Of course this is just a suggestion as its likely they have a time frame (from 8am - 6pm) that the tech could come by.
--
Computer: Intel Quad Core, 2gb OCZ DDr2, EvGA 8800GTS 512mb, 2x Plextor Burners, Corsair 620psu, Antec 900Case, 5mb DSL from teksavvy

»www.MaximumRepair.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440953 Tue, 06 May 2008 16:15:34 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440832 illusion : Finally, someone who is able to view the problem in the customer's perspective rather than in a technical perspective. My point exactly. I'm paying TekSavvy for the service, and ultimately I expect the service to be provided. I do sympathize that they're dealing with Bell. But in the customer's perspective, if Bell drops the ball, it's TekSavvy's responsibility to the customer, to make sure that the ball don't keep on dropping.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440832 Tue, 06 May 2008 15:54:20 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440641 anon :
said by Sukunai :

All things considered, the thread title is a bit slanted in the wrong direction me thinks.

Now if BELL is the reason for the trouble, it's a bit unfair to imply it is Teksavvy that is responsible.
Although it may ultimately be the fault of Bell, Teksavvy is the one selling the service to the customer and the customer is the one dealing directly with teksavvy.

The customer has NO dealings with Bell.

Whats involved and what hoops teksavvy has to jump through with Bell is of no concern to a paying customer buying Teksavvy services.

So is the topic slanted? I think not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440641 Tue, 06 May 2008 15:20:06 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440354 anon : All things considered, the thread title is a bit slanted in the wrong direction me thinks.

Teksavvy will likely be getting me as a phone customer shortly.

Now if BELL is the reason for the trouble, it's a bit unfair to imply it is Teksavvy that is responsible.

A more accurate title might have been TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service due to the usual worthless shitty service from Bell. I realise that won't fit.
I would suggest shortening it to "the usual worthless shitty service from Bell"

"I don't know how difficult it is for TekSavvy to persuade Bell to send someone" Actually, you apparently do :)

Bell's losing long time customers for a lot more than just throttled torrents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440354 Tue, 06 May 2008 14:36:21 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440260 dbsanfte : The guy is pissed, and has a right to be. If this is the kind of service to expect from Bell, I personally wouldn't soil my company's good name reselling it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440260 Tue, 06 May 2008 14:21:54 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440218 mlerner :
said by illusion See Profile :

I have no doubt that the techs are lazy and irresponsible. But I'm somewhat disappointed that TekSavvy is unable to do anything other than continuously booking appointments.
Pretty much the same as calling Bell directly, except you don't have to wait in a queue and the reps actually know something.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440218 Tue, 06 May 2008 14:13:40 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440152 illusion : I have no doubt that the techs are lazy and irresponsible. But I'm somewhat disappointed that TekSavvy is unable to do anything other than continuously booking appointments.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440152 Tue, 06 May 2008 14:03:22 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440126 mlerner : If you don't have a demarc, the reason for the delay is probably the lazy techs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20440126 Tue, 06 May 2008 13:59:53 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439713 illusion : Nope, a semi that doesn't have a demarcation point yet (new development).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439713 Tue, 06 May 2008 12:37:40 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439661 theninjasqua : Do you live in an apartment or something?
--

-theninjasquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439661 Tue, 06 May 2008 12:27:56 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439630 illusion : Understood. But I think TekSavvy should be going to the higher ups at Bell after the first appointment was missed. I shouldn't find myself making a third appointment and still not feeling assured that someone will actually show up this time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439630 Tue, 06 May 2008 12:23:04 EDT Re: TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439532 kbray : Teksavvy resells BELL Canada Phone, so it would be BELL or a Bell contractor who would be coming out to set this stuff up.

Teksavvy should be able to get this to the higher ups at Bell as they do for DSL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439532 Tue, 06 May 2008 12:05:58 EDT TekSavvy's Inability to Setup Home Phone Service http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439481 illusion : I've signed up for home phone service on April 22nd, asking whether they're able to setup the demarcation point, got confirmation that it can be done. But today's May 6th, and the demarcation point is STILL not there.

The first appointment for the technician to come was on Apr 29th, no one showed up, I called TekSavvy, it was CONFIRMED that someone would come before 6PM, the person never came. I called the next day, and the system shows that the job was "done", yet still no demarcation point. So I had to make a second appointment for the May 5th. AGAIN no one showed up, and their system shows that the job was done again. So now I'm making my 3rd appointment for the 8th. I don't know how difficult it is for TekSavvy to persuade Bell to send someone, but the customer (ME) can't keep taking days off from work just to wait for a technician who NEVER shows up.

Is there some higher power here who can shed some light on why it's so immensely difficult to just setup a phone line?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20439481 Tue, 06 May 2008 11:55:25 EDT